The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

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waitingtoconnect
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by waitingtoconnect »

The Bank of America has been saying since January that default is likely.

https://www.agfax.com/2023/01/18/bank-o ... is-likely/

I think so too. The republicans want it to happen because trump wants it to happen.

Trump has gone bankrupt six times with his businesses so he figures there is no harm to him therefore there is no harm to anyone (important).

Trump’s Taj Mahal opened in April 1990 in Atlantic City, but six months later, “defaulted on interest payments to bondholders as his finances went into a tailspin,” The Washington Post’s Robert O’Harrow found. In July 1991, Trump’s Taj Mahal filed for bankruptcy. He could not keep up with debts on two other Atlantic City casinos, and those two properties declared bankruptcy in 1992. A fourth property, the Plaza Hotel in New York, declared bankruptcy in 1992 after amassing debt.

PolitiFact uncovered two more bankruptcies filed after 1992, totaling six. Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts filed for bankruptcy again in 2004, after accruing about $1.8 billion in debt. Trump Entertainment Resorts also declared bankruptcy in 2009, after being hit hard during the 2008 recession.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Agree. At the least, there is Trump ‘pressure’ to default. I get the feeling in here that many don’t REALLY accept that it’s what the R’s are really going for (because it’s too insane? Too self-hurtful? Too extreme? Too implausible?).

Consider those adjectives as they apply to the current party we are dealing with and lmk if they are hyperbolic.

Brexit was a BIT different, but similar in many ways. I clearly remember interviews with people after the fact saying they either didn’t vote bc they thought the ‘leave’ outcome was so implausible and crazy, or people that actually voted to leave, with the same reasons (they voted ‘leave’ for Stigginit purposes only, did not expect it to pass).

Even if the crazies (or simply playing crazy) in the GOP playing hardball with this aren’t gunning for default, with these stakes playing chicken can have dire consequences.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by YellowKing »

malchior wrote:But then today Biden says he has come around on the 14th amendment but 'doesn't have time' to do it?! It's maddening.
I just wonder if a lot of that talk is political strategerie. I fully admit I could be wrong and Biden isn't playing 4-D chess and we're all well and truly fucked. If that happens, feel free to come in here and say I told you so.
Carpet_pissr wrote: I get the feeling in here that many don’t REALLY accept that it’s what the R’s are really going for (because it’s too insane? Too self-hurtful? Too extreme? Too implausible?).
I'd believe it more if I felt that a default would be pinned solely on Biden and the GOP would feel no ramifications from it in the next election. I have a really hard time buying that, so I don't know where the upside would be for them. It would be a massive guaranteed financial cost for a slim chance at some nebulous election outcome in which we don't even know who the GOP nominee is.

I mean you're right, maybe we are past all common sense, but these guys live on only two things - money and power, I don't see where a default gets them either of those and has a good chance of costing them both.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Skinypupy »

YellowKing wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 8:47 am It would be a massive guaranteed financial cost for a slim chance at some nebulous election outcome in which we don't even know who the GOP nominee is.
Uh, we don't?
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Smoove_B »

You'd think this talking point would have hit harder. Starting to see it being promoted a bit on Twitter, but it feels like it should have been something to bring up all the time over the last 4+ months.


For context, roughly 25% of our total national debt incurred over the last 230 years actually occurred during the 4 years of the Trump administration. That's right. 25% of our entire national debt, all during the Trump years.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by malchior »

YellowKing wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 8:47 am
malchior wrote:But then today Biden says he has come around on the 14th amendment but 'doesn't have time' to do it?! It's maddening.
I just wonder if a lot of that talk is political strategerie. I fully admit I could be wrong and Biden isn't playing 4-D chess and we're all well and truly fucked. If that happens, feel free to come in here and say I told you so.
It's incomprehensible 4-D chess if it is. As several smarter people have pointed out you don't typically say you can't do things if you might have to do it eventually or keep it as a card for later. Anyway, it isn't about "I told you so". It is pointing out that lot of folks "told us so" several times already. Maybe we should start listening to them and put pressure on Biden to perform?
I mean you're right, maybe we are past all common sense, but these guys live on only two things - money and power, I don't see where a default gets them either of those and has a good chance of costing them both.
FWIW I think this is the greatest flaw in many analyses. Folks are pinning this to individuals and their self-interest without understanding the problems and consequent priorities they actually face. This is a complex failure which makes going over the cliff likely versus not likely at the moment.

In particular, one key actor in McCarthy cares more about his personal power which he almost certainly loses if he makes anything but a deal that humiliates Biden. This is true even though he might calculate he loses power in the long-run on the other side as well. He has that immediate problem in front of him right now and the other is hazy at best. The rebels extracted a concession that people with vision (in other words not Biden!) concluded made a debt ceiling breach much more likely. And we can repeat this analysis across several key actors. If/when this happens and if there are significant impacts I look forward to reading the 'Guns of August' style decomposition of how the "impossible" happened.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Octavious »

The frustrating thing to me is the mixed messages. We're not going to negotiate quickly turned into negotiations, which quickly gets spun. So his options are to give up a shit ton of stuff or nuke us from orbit. Awesome... Why are we not pointing out the tax cuts and the huge amount of spending under Trump? They should be beating that like a drum. Unless I'm deaf and blind I haven't heard a peep. :tjg:
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

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Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 10:31 am You'd think this talking point would have hit harder. Starting to see it being promoted a bit on Twitter, but it feels like it should have been something to bring up all the time over the last 4+ months.


For context, roughly 25% of our total national debt incurred over the last 230 years actually occurred during the 4 years of the Trump administration. That's right. 25% of our entire national debt, all during the Trump years.
Thst been the case for a while now. As we spend more and more, recent years make up a disproportionate chunk of the debt. Consider that since 2010 the national debt has tripled:

Image



I mean we're constantly borrowing money from those that aren't born yet. And we're constantly borrowing more and more insane amounts.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by malchior »

It isn't that we are borrowing. It is that the rate of growth of debt well exceeds the growth of the economy at large. It also matters what the "quality" of the borrowing entails. Borrowing to invest in transition to a climate friendly future has a good return for several reasons. But we also spend too much money on things that are the results of our nation's continuing policy failures at large. To wit, healthcare costs are out of line in this country and we're now seeing a massive onboarding of baby boomers into Medicare. Addressing all this requires a functional government...which we don't have. We're just constantly barreling into the face of madness (and eventual meltdown).
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:46 pm It isn't that we are borrowing. It is that the rate of growth of debt well exceeds the growth of the economy at large.
Thats why we're borrowing against the distant future. We're only a few years away from debt service exceeding GDP. Heck, I think it already exceeds the deficit.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:52 pm
malchior wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:46 pm It isn't that we are borrowing. It is that the rate of growth of debt well exceeds the growth of the economy at large.
Thats why we're borrowing against the distant future. We're only a few years away from debt service exceeding GDP. Heck, I think it already exceeds the deficit.
We're nowhere close to debt service exceeding GDP and debt service is about 50% of the current deficit. It is ~15% of current spending. These could be made up in great part if we reversed the Trump tax cut. None of this is "out of control" but we should be making choices. But we can't so if it isn't this crisis it'll be the next one...unless something drastically changes.

Edit: Another way to look at this is to consider that the average S&P 500 company has Debt/Equity of approximately 1.6 to 1. The United States owes $31T on collected wealth of something like $160T. Quite reasonable in those terms. Obviously these aren't 100% analogues but all I'm getting at is that we don't have a debt crisis in any form. We have a manufactured debt crisis and we could address most of these problems through entitlement reform, land use reform, true healthcare reform, etc. But we're so far from having the capability to do it.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Smoove_B »


I just concluded a productive meeting with Speaker McCarthy about the need to prevent default and avoid a catastrophe for our economy.

We reiterated once again that default is off the table and the only way to move forward is in good faith toward a bipartisan agreement.

While there are areas of disagreement, the Speaker and I, and his lead negotiators Chairman McHenry and Congressman Graves, and our staffs will continue to discuss the path forward.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by waitingtoconnect »

President Lisa Simpson: “As you know, we’ve inherited quite a budget crunch from President Trump.”
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Grifman »

malchior wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:57 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:52 pm
malchior wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:46 pm It isn't that we are borrowing. It is that the rate of growth of debt well exceeds the growth of the economy at large.
Thats why we're borrowing against the distant future. We're only a few years away from debt service exceeding GDP. Heck, I think it already exceeds the deficit.
We're nowhere close to debt service exceeding GDP and debt service is about 50% of the current deficit. It is ~15% of current spending. These could be made up in great part if we reversed the Trump tax cut. None of this is "out of control" but we should be making choices. But we can't so if it isn't this crisis it'll be the next one...unless something drastically changes.

Edit: Another way to look at this is to consider that the average S&P 500 company has Debt/Equity of approximately 1.6 to 1. The United States owes $31T on collected wealth of something like $160T. Quite reasonable in those terms. Obviously these aren't 100% analogues but all I'm getting at is that we don't have a debt crisis in any form. We have a manufactured debt crisis and we could address most of these problems through entitlement reform, land use reform, true healthcare reform, etc. But we're so far from having the capability to do it.
The standard by which most economists judge government debt issues is total debt (not debt servicing) as a percent of GDP. Most economists say that a nation will face problems once the ratio of govt debt to GDP gets to be over 100%, and under Trump that ratio was exceeded and now it is around 120%. As govt debt gets higher, people lose confidence in a govt’s ability to repay, which leads to debt crises such as we have seen in countries such as Argentina and Greece.

The US, however, is different than most countries in that the dollar is the world’s reserve currency. People want dollars, hence they buy US debt. The US govt has no problem finding buyers of US Treasuries - for now. However, a problem people have is believing the future will be like the past, and not preparing for the unexpected. If and when the US debt is no longer supported by foreign buyers, then the US will face the same problems as every over-leveraged country in history.
The bill will come due. At some point we need to bring our spending in line with our means, either voluntarily or involuntarily. But historically it seems that govts are rarely able to adequately deal with issues such as this until a time of crisis - at which it is too late to avoid economic disaster.

So I don’t have faith that any real progress will be made. The simple fact is that even when we make progress in reducing spending, the Republicans come along and use the improved deficit position to reduce taxes, creating the deficit problem all over again. Under Clinton, the annual deficit was eliminated, but once Bush got into office, a huge tax cut was passed, putting us back into a hole. Under Obama, more spending cuts were made, again reducing the annual deficit, and again, under Trump, the Republicans spent it all away with a huge tax cut. The Republicans pay this game every time, they are not interested in spending cuts as deficit reduction but was a way to further tax cuts. I wish someone would call them out on this and refuse to pay this game, but the Dems seem incapable of doing so.

So we are stuck where we are.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by malchior »

Grifman wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 9:55 am
malchior wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:57 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:52 pm
malchior wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:46 pm It isn't that we are borrowing. It is that the rate of growth of debt well exceeds the growth of the economy at large.
Thats why we're borrowing against the distant future. We're only a few years away from debt service exceeding GDP. Heck, I think it already exceeds the deficit.
We're nowhere close to debt service exceeding GDP and debt service is about 50% of the current deficit. It is ~15% of current spending. These could be made up in great part if we reversed the Trump tax cut. None of this is "out of control" but we should be making choices. But we can't so if it isn't this crisis it'll be the next one...unless something drastically changes.

Edit: Another way to look at this is to consider that the average S&P 500 company has Debt/Equity of approximately 1.6 to 1. The United States owes $31T on collected wealth of something like $160T. Quite reasonable in those terms. Obviously these aren't 100% analogues but all I'm getting at is that we don't have a debt crisis in any form. We have a manufactured debt crisis and we could address most of these problems through entitlement reform, land use reform, true healthcare reform, etc. But we're so far from having the capability to do it.
The standard by which most economists judge government debt issues is total debt (not debt servicing) as a percent of GDP. Most economists say that a nation will face problems once the ratio of govt debt to GDP gets to be over 100%, and under Trump that ratio was exceeded and now it is around 120%. As govt debt gets higher, people lose confidence in a govt’s ability to repay, which leads to debt crises such as we have seen in countries such as Argentina and Greece.
Well except for Japan! Also I'd be careful about saying most economists. They don't say that uniformly in any real way. That's mostly CNBC populist economics at best. It is mostly a Chicago-school of economics point of view. Many Keynesians (the majority) don't necessarily accept it as gospel. Some accept. Some don't. Most is not all debate it. Japan always is the spoiler that makes this murky. That's why I like to compare debt to other non-traditional measures as well. When you look at our debt in "rounder" ways, this argument is not as pat as some would like it to be. And I'm not saying that we should aspire to be Japan but they are running 250% Debt/GDP and they aren't facing any of the boogeymen that Chigago-school economists have been selling.
The US, however, is different than most countries in that the dollar is the world’s reserve currency. People want dollars, hence they buy US debt. The US govt has no problem finding buyers of US Treasuries - for now. However, a problem people have is believing the future will be like the past, and not preparing for the unexpected. If and when the US debt is no longer supported by foreign buyers, then the US will face the same problems as every over-leveraged country in history.
Again Japan is the counter-case. It isn't a world reserve currency. It has about the same level of external foreign ownership as the US. The fact is that debt owned in your own currency is different. Greece is a great example of this. They are in a monetary union where they have almost no control over their monetary policy. They are a weak service economy in an EU that had a relatively strong Euro that reduced demand for its services. They also have legendary problems with tax evasion that didn't help but they had no tools to address their debt issues except austerity which is largely counterproductive at a national level. It's devilishly complex but Greece is a great example that cutting your way to prosperity rarely works. The UK is dealing with this now even though they control their own currency. Mostly because it is self-inflicted and driven by boogeyman economic theories. Anyway, that is a long way of saying that it's not simple and there are no uniform "bright lines" to guide us.

That's why pointing to overall wealth can be an illuminating measure. It is the store of value and capital available to potentially tax for instance or drive investment. It is just one of many measures that help us understand the burden. We'd shrug at a business spending ~15% of their income on debt service but somehow when it is a nation it is a catastrophe. It's largely nonsense. Debt/GDP is sort of interesting but our debt is also split between public and non-public debt. Some of it are virtual accounts. It's what makes this a fierce "non-settled" debate.
The bill will come due. At some point we need to bring our spending in line with our means, either voluntarily or involuntarily. But historically it seems that govts are rarely able to adequately deal with issues such as this until a time of crisis - at which it is too late to avoid economic disaster.
I agree the current course is probably not stable but it isn't the calamity it is being sold as. We're not too far from bringing the deficit back in line with sustainable growth.
So I don’t have faith that any real progress will be made. The simple fact is that even when we make progress in reducing spending, the Republicans come along and use the improved deficit position to reduce taxes, creating the deficit problem all over again. Under Clinton, the annual deficit was eliminated, but once Bush got into office, a huge tax cut was passed, putting us back into a hole. Under Obama, more spending cuts were made, again reducing the annual deficit, and again, under Trump, the Republicans spent it all away with a huge tax cut. The Republicans pay this game every time, they are not interested in spending cuts as deficit reduction but was a way to further tax cuts. I wish someone would call them out on this and refuse to pay this game, but the Dems seem incapable of doing so.
Honestly they're both complicit but the real problem is the money that has corrupted this system. Tax and economic policy is driven by globalist facing oligarchs. I don't mean international Jewish conspiracy either. I mean that the Kochs and Bezos and Musks of the world want to keep as much money as possible and extract money from as many countries as possible. And I agree there is little chance of real progress. We're pretty far along a kleptocratic path. It is one of my fundamental beliefs is at the root of our instability. They've hollowed out institutions in pursuit of their own interests to the point that they've nearly burned down the banana stand.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Grifman »

Democratic messaging sucks:

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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Kraken »

People don't understand that the US budget doesn't follow the same rules as their checkbooks.

That said, some fiscal discipline (not austerity) would not be a bad thing. Just not as a condition of paying the debt.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Formix »

Yes, by all means! Let's cut some spending! The military is a GREAT place to start. We could save between 500 and 600 billion just by decreasing to what the #2 spender, China spends......
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Victoria Raverna »

Why not cut social security like what the Republicans want? Isn't that going to hurt their own voters the most? Their voters tend to be older, right?
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Grifman »

Formix wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 4:43 am Yes, by all means! Let's cut some spending! The military is a GREAT place to start. We could save between 500 and 600 billion just by decreasing to what the #2 spender, China spends......
Due to cost of living differences, US salaries and weapons are more expensive than Chinese ones, you can’t do a simple dollar for dollar comparison.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Unagi »

Grifman wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 10:09 pm Democratic messaging sucks:

What happened to us boycotting CNN?
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Unagi wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 7:16 am What happened to us boycotting CNN?
Or supreme dickbag Elon Musks' Twitter? :P

Maybe a CNN post ON Twitter cancels each other out.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by malchior »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 8:58 am
Unagi wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 7:16 am What happened to us boycotting CNN?
Or supreme dickbag Elon Musks' Twitter? :P

Maybe a CNN post ON Twitter cancels each other out.
Unfortunately there is no good substitute for Twitter...and I keep wishing for one to get critical mass. CNN is highly replaceable.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Skinypupy »

Since I heard McCarthy trotting out the “kid with a credit card” analogy again yesterday, I figured I’d use a credit card analogy that is much more apt to the current situation.

The GOP family goes to a restaurant and runs up a huuuuuuuge bill. When the time comes to pay the bill, they refuse. Instead, they demand that the restaurant fire half the staff, remove any of their menu items the GOP Family doesn't like, leave any of the items the GOP Family likes untouched, and completely remodel their kitchen. If the restaurant refuses, not only will the GOP family not pay their huuuuuge bill, but they will also firebomb the restaurant.

Instead of being laughed out of the room, about half the patrons and the entire news media are asking “very serious questions” about why the restaurant isn’t willing to negotiate with the GOP family. "Surely firing just half the staff, remodeling just half the kitchen, and cutting the prices in half on the items they don’t like is a reasonable request? Why are you refusing to compromise?!"

We are a very unserious country.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Kurth »

I have not clicked on or engaged with any CNN content since the Trump Town Hall fiasco. It has not been particularly difficult.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Pyperkub »

This is such a dishonest extortion attempt by the GOP.

Next Up - MOAR Deficit Exploding Tax Cuts!
Politico reported earlier this week that Republicans on the House Ways and Means Committee hope to finish work on their emerging tax legislation by June 16, just over two weeks after the so-called "X-date"—the day on which the Treasury Department expects the federal government to run out of money to cover its obligations unless Congress raises the debt limit or President Joe Biden acts unilaterally.

"Key parts of the [tax cut] package... will likely include a full restoration of research and development deductions, full bonus depreciation, removing caps on business interest expensing, and a doubling of the $1.08 million limitation on the section 179 deduction (which, like bonus depreciation, allows a company to deduct an asset's cost up-front)," Politico noted.

The outlet added that Rep. Vern Buchanan's (R-Fla.) legislation aimed at making the 2017 Trump-GOP tax cuts for individuals and some businesses permanent "also has a strong likelihood of getting marked up in a broader package." The bill, known as the TCJA Permanency Act, currently has nearly 100 Republican co-sponsors in the House.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by waitingtoconnect »

The reaction of the markets when the Uk tried to do the exact same unfunded tax cuts was equivalent to what would happen in a US debt default to US markets the repercussions are still being felt.

You can only squeeze the poor and middle class for so long for the benefit of the rich before the wheels start to fall off.


One can imagine if the US fails to do something about the mass deficit run up largely by republicans, then it would be a disaster in the long term.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... und-crisis

Getting out of the crisis means taxing the rich again. There is no other way. Defence cuts, spending cuts will do nothing.
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by malchior »

Panic setting in throughout the Democratic ranks . That said, the article goes into the depths that one did a good job of showing the comparative strategies - McCarthy being transparent and using the media as a bullhorn for his disinformation and a deeply incompetent Biden administration essentially acting "Presidential" but essentially not joining in the fight in an effective way that accepts reality. He is living in the past and losing.
House Democratic lawmakers are voicing frustration over President Biden’s approach to negotiating a debt ceiling deal with Republicans, worrying that their priorities are not being championed aggressively enough and that Biden hasn’t more forcefully pushed back publicly against Republican demands.

In a previously unreported interaction, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tex.), who has served in the House for almost 30 years, encouraged Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) during Democrats’ weekly caucus meeting Tuesday to ask the president to immediately address the nation, detailing how Republicans are toying with the economy and explaining that a default would catastrophically affect their lives.

House Democrats across ideological factions are frustrated at what they say is a lack of communication by the White House at a time when they should be preparing to defend their party’s president, who has frequently commented on his willingness to find compromise in hopes of striking a deal. Democrats have publicly and privately said the president isn’t responding forcefully enough to Republicans’ framing of the negotiations, and that their lack of insight into the process could jeopardize Democrats’ ability to whip votes in support once a bipartisan deal eventually hits the House floor.
Note: When Kevin McCarthy is constantly outmaneuvering you on the politics and messaging...
The approach is a stark contrast to that of House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) and his lieutenants, who have held court with the press at length, multiple times per day, effectively shaping a narrative and — at least publicly — the parameters of the negotiations.
And huh it seems even the Democrats are behind the scenes calling him incompetent...sorry taking a '20th century approach'.
Even so, Democrats have seethed in private over what they view as the White House’s 20th century approach to high-stakes negotiations — all done behind closed doors, with an occasional designated leak of information designed to shame the other side. Biden is adhering to the notion of not negotiating through the press, while McCarthy has frequently engaged the media.

The House speaker has been a whirling-dervish of communication with the press, engaging roughly a dozen times in hallway interviews since the House gaveled into session on Monday. His top lieutenants in the negotiations, Reps. Garret Graves (R-La.) and McHenry, did a short televised news conference Tuesday morning before their talks with top Biden officials. Later that day, after the 2 ½-hour negotiation session ended, they gave reporters a nearly 50-minute readout of their side of the talks.

All the while, Biden remained mostly silent, which Democrats say has helped Republicans appear reasonable.
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Unagi
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Unagi »

I don't know what 'working with' would mean in this context. We know that they have zero intention of 'working with Biden' on this, so it seems likely that any effort by Biden to work with them would just eventually be seen as a failure, no matter what.
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Smoove_B
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Smoove_B »

Again, the House GOP is very, very serious about addressing the pending debt ceiling issue


It’s not even 11 o’clock on Thursday morning and every Republican left the House and went home.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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LordMortis
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by LordMortis »

You'd think as much as the news has discussed this nonstop for weeks that this would be at the top and bottom of every hour. Yet if you google news for debt ceiling as recently as 30 minutes with "live updates" CNN and NBC are both talking about what is going on as if they recess is immanent they are still debating. CNBC, doesn't say a thing and they have white house correspondents talking about it ad nauseam along withe experts.

https://www.google.com/search?q=debt+ceiling+news

Edit: CNBC right now, Fitch threatening credit rating while debates drag on.
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Carpet_pissr
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Carpet_pissr »

It’s already too late. Even if they miraculously came to an agreement today, it would take what, 2 weeks or so to ‘process’?

We’re fucked.
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El Guapo
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by El Guapo »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 1:52 pm It’s already too late. Even if they miraculously came to an agreement today, it would take what, 2 weeks or so to ‘process’?

We’re fucked.
In theory they could pass some short term debt ceiling increase (say to cover a couple weeks or a month or what have you) while they continue negotiating. But even with that, the Senate can only move quickly by unanimous consent, and you know that Cruz or Tuberville or some jackass would prevent that, since we have the greatest political system in the world.
Black Lives Matter.
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hepcat
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by hepcat »

Biden should have used the 14th.

Now I'm worried my 401k is going to get slammed, forcing me to work much longer than i had hoped to.

Christ, I'm sick of the extremists in the GOP. :x
Covfefe!
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El Guapo
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by El Guapo »

hepcat wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 2:01 pm Biden should have used the 14th.

Now I'm worried my 401k is going to get slammed, forcing me to work much longer than i had hoped to.

Christ, I'm sick of the extremists in the GOP. :x
He still can. Or the coin. Or the premium bonds, which (at least as explained by Krugman) seems like the best option.

And....he's going to do that if the time runs out, right? Right????
Black Lives Matter.
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Octavious
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Octavious »

Image
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

Shameless plug for my website: www.nettphoto.com
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Smoove_B »

El Guapo wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 2:15 pm And....he's going to do that if the time runs out, right? Right????
...or we could see what the GOP does when they finally experience the consequences of their inaction*


*along with the rest of humanity
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hepcat
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by hepcat »

Blame it on democrats?
Covfefe!
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Alefroth
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Re: The 2023 Debt Ceiling Crisis

Post by Alefroth »

hepcat wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 2:01 pm Biden should have used the 14th.

Now I'm worried my 401k is going to get slammed, forcing me to work much longer than i had hoped to.

Christ, I'm sick of the extremists in the GOP. :x
I moved half of mine into a bond fund and fixed account. You aren't that old are you? Still enough time to recover before retirement I'd think.
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