Second Front

[jztemple2]

And I've uploaded my first created scenario: Lafayette We Are Back 01 Landing. It should actually be "Lafayette We Are Back - 01 Landing" but I was having problems with hyphens in the title.

[jztemple2]

I don't think I posted this before. It is a look at the Garage function in the game. Here it is possible to select tanks, self-propelled guns, armored cars, etc and compare them against each other. Pretty cool and a great help in scenario design as you can tag individual items to be given prominence when you design a scenario.

[jztemple2]

This is an hour and forty minute long replay of my playing of the scenario "Hasty Defence" (yes, I know the proper spelling is "Defense", but I'm quoting the scenario title). I won with hardly any units left, but a win is a win.

Note that I don't play with any music on, nor is there any narration. So it is going to be quiet a lot of the time. Also I had to splice together two play sessions after the one hour mark, at the end of turn seven, so there's a little jump at that point.

[jztemple2]

This is a 30 minute replay of my win in the "Falaise Escape" scenario. As always, I play without music and there is no narration. The moves are mostly self-explanatory, except to note that the requirement was to escape the map with fourteen victory points worth of units. You'll see me highlight units which show on the unit display at the bottom right of the screen. The total value of those units shows up at the bottom left of the unit display there. So I was keeping track that I had at least fourteen points worth of units there to exit off the map.

[Blackhawk]

This is an hour and forty minute long replay of my playing of the scenario "Hasty Defence" (yes, I know the proper spelling is "Defense", but I'm quoting the scenario title).

Only if you're an American. The entirety of the remaining English speaking world spells it 'defence.'

[jztemple2]

This is an hour and forty minute long replay of my playing of the scenario "Hasty Defence" (yes, I know the proper spelling is "Defense", but I'm quoting the scenario title).

Only if you're an American. The entirety of the remaining English speaking world spells it 'defence.'

Really? OK, I'll change that in the description. Thanks for letting me know.

[Holman]

I have heard Second Front described as a good computer version of Advanced Squad Leader.

I'm not picky, but I am curious. Asking as someone who has read all 700+ small-print, double-column, full-sized pages of the ASL rulebook, how accurate is this description? I'm really curious because so much of what ASL tries to do on paper (movement timing, line of sight, spotting, map levels, etc) is almost trivial for a computer engine.

Of course ASL includes nationalities and equipment and environments that aren't (yet?) included in Second Front, but can anyone with experience of both games give me a sense of how close they are to one another in mechanics?

(Full disclosure: despite maybe 200+ hours reading ASL rules, sorting ASL counters, and engaging in ASL discussions, I have only played two short ASL scenarios to completion. Such is wargaming.)

[jztemple2]

I have heard Second Front described as a good computer version of Advanced Squad Leader.

I'm not picky, but I am curious. Asking as someone who has read all 700+ small-print, double-column, full-sized pages of the ASL rulebook, how accurate is this description? I'm really curious because so much of what ASL tries to do on paper (movement timing, line of sight, spotting, map levels, etc) is almost trivial for a computer engine.

Of course ASL includes nationalities and equipment and environments that aren't (yet?) included in Second Front, but can anyone with experience of both games give me a sense of how close they are to one another in mechanics?

(Full disclosure: despite maybe 200+ hours reading ASL rules, sorting ASL counters, and engaging in ASL discussions, I have only played two short ASL scenarios to completion. Such is wargaming.)

It's been thirty years since I played ASL so I can't personally comment on its authenticity, but people on Discord seem pleased with the way it emulates ASL. There are some nitpickers about little details but aren't there always?

Since I did my wargaming solo I was the same boat as you, I spent a lot of hours reading rules and punching out pieces, not so much playing

You might consider buying the game on Steam and using the two hour grace period to see if you like it.

By the way, the latest patch added an "Unlock All" button to the scenario picker so now the newbies can access all the harder scenarios and complain about how hard they are . At least this might make some of the whiners on Steam happy.

[Holman]

Thanks!

My son bought it and is really enjoying it, so I'll tap into his library when he's not playing and see if I want my own copy.

[Archinerd]

Sorry, I"m no help either. I've never played ASL, and only know it by reputation.

[Max Peck]

I have heard Second Front described as a good computer version of Advanced Squad Leader.

I'm not picky, but I am curious. Asking as someone who has read all 700+ small-print, double-column, full-sized pages of the ASL rulebook, how accurate is this description? I'm really curious because so much of what ASL tries to do on paper (movement timing, line of sight, spotting, map levels, etc) is almost trivial for a computer engine.

Of course ASL includes nationalities and equipment and environments that aren't (yet?) included in Second Front, but can anyone with experience of both games give me a sense of how close they are to one another in mechanics?

(Full disclosure: despite maybe 200+ hours reading ASL rules, sorting ASL counters, and engaging in ASL discussions, I have only played two short ASL scenarios to completion. Such is wargaming.)

[Holman]

Thanks!

[Holman]

I took the plunge on this after watching most of the above video. It really does feel like a faithful adaptation of Advanced Squad Leader (minus the dozens upon dozens of expansions, but those are perhaps to come).

I still prefer the Combat Mission series for complex WW2 tactical battles, but this new game definitely scratches a certain hex-and-counter itch. It's very well done.

[jztemple2]

I took the plunge on this after watching most of the above video. It really does feel like a faithful adaptation of Advanced Squad Leader (minus the dozens upon dozens of expansions, but those are perhaps to come).

I still prefer the Combat Mission series for complex WW2 tactical battles, but this new game definitely scratches a certain hex-and-counter itch. It's very well done.

Assuming the naysayers and the whiners don't discourage the developer and publisher too much and the sales are good, I think it would be a good bet to see expansions for Italy and North Africa, plus the Pacific. I'll be buying them. Assuming of course the modders don't figure out how to add them all

I played a lot of Combat Mission back in the day and enjoyed it too. Maybe I ought to see what they are doing with the game. Any suggestions about where to start with it? I don't have my old copies from twenty plus years ago . I looked at Slitherine but none of the CM stuff seems to be WW2.

[Holman]

I took the plunge on this after watching most of the above video. It really does feel like a faithful adaptation of Advanced Squad Leader (minus the dozens upon dozens of expansions, but those are perhaps to come).

I still prefer the Combat Mission series for complex WW2 tactical battles, but this new game definitely scratches a certain hex-and-counter itch. It's very well done.

Assuming the naysayers and the whiners don't discourage the developer and publisher too much and the sales are good, I think it would be a good bet to see expansions for Italy and North Africa, plus the Pacific. I'll be buying them. Assuming of course the modders don't figure out how to add them all

I played a lot of Combat Mission back in the day and enjoyed it too. Maybe I ought to see what they are doing with the game. Any suggestions about where to start with it? I don't have my old copies from twenty plus years ago . I looked at Slitherine but none of the CM stuff seems to be WW2.

CM is in a whole new engine since back in the day. The WW2 games are divided into various portions of the war, including 1944 in the West (starting with Normandy), 1945 in the West (starting with the Bulge), 1944-45 on the Eastern Front, and 1943-44 Sicily-Italy.

Their publishing relationship with Slitherine is very recent, and the WW2 games aren't part of it yet (or at least aren't yet on Steam). You can find everything here.

[jztemple2]

Thanks for the info on CM!

[em2nought]

(Full disclosure: despite maybe 200+ hours reading ASL rules, sorting ASL counters, and engaging in ASL discussions, I have only played two short ASL scenarios to completion. Such is wargaming.)

I never even played one game of Panzer Leader, but I was always jonesing to get ASL. At least I played the SPI Civil War Quads, and early CM. I'll be jonesing for Second Front if they add the early war. I think my PC gaming buying spree slowed down considerably once games stopped having so many physical components to fondle.

[dbt1949]

I never played ASL but I have thousands of hours in Squad Leader.

[jztemple2]

A very useful video from one of the playtesters.

[Lassr]

Forum effect got me and I bought this game and plan to play it soon.

Watching the video, the first thing they cover is turning the engine off on the truck to load and unload...that is a really odd feature to put in the game. What's the point? Just seems like something that would lead to confusion and frustration when trying to dismount a vehicle.

"Sarge, we can't get out! Get Pyle to turn the engine off on the truck! I know we are not moving, but that exhaust is making us cough, and we're scared to get out!"

[jztemple2]

Watching the video, the first thing they cover is turning the engine off on the truck to load and unload...that is a really odd feature to put in the game. What's the point? Just seems like something that would lead to confusion and frustration when trying to dismount a vehicle.

I think the effect is more that the truck isn't ready to discharge or accept passengers; tailgate down, covers pulled back, etc.

[Holman]

Forum effect got me and I bought this game and plan to play it soon.

Watching the video, the first thing they cover is turning the engine off on the truck to load and unload...that is a really odd feature to put in the game. What's the point? Just seems like something that would lead to confusion and frustration when trying to dismount a vehicle.

"Sarge, we can't get out! Get Pyle to turn the engine off on the truck! I know we are not moving, but that exhaust is making us cough, and we're scared to get out!"

I believe it might stand in for being in motion or not. ASL tracked whether vehicles were still moving or stopped at the end of their turn, as this has effects on firing or being targeted and on whether infantry can board or exit. In other words, even though it's a turn-based game, vehicles might be "in motion" during enemy fire phases.

If "engine on/off" is the exact same feature, I agree that the term they're using feels a bit odd.

[Lassr]

Forum effect got me and I bought this game and plan to play it soon.

Watching the video, the first thing they cover is turning the engine off on the truck to load and unload...that is a really odd feature to put in the game. What's the point? Just seems like something that would lead to confusion and frustration when trying to dismount a vehicle.

"Sarge, we can't get out! Get Pyle to turn the engine off on the truck! I know we are not moving, but that exhaust is making us cough, and we're scared to get out!"

I believe it might stand in for being in motion or not. ASL tracked whether vehicles were still moving or stopped at the end of their turn, as this has effects on firing or being targeted and on whether infantry can board or exit. In other words, even though it's a turn-based game, vehicles might be "in motion" during enemy fire phases.

If "engine on/off" is the exact same feature, I agree that the term they're using feels a bit odd.

Ah, that makes more sense then.

[jztemple2]

New patch. That first item will please some people.

Version 1.153

free camera rotation with middle mouse button
faster map rotated speed
increased chance of rubble (>= 70 mm)
increased chance for fire
Description and Aftermath in scenario Fire and Manouver
I tried to find and fix the endless fire by squad with flamethrower bug
other fixes

[Apollo]

What is the campaign like? I've heard that you have to win a few scenarios first in order to unlock the campaign but I haven't otherwise heard anything about it.

[jztemple2]

What is the campaign like? I've heard that you have to win a few scenarios first in order to unlock the campaign but I haven't otherwise heard anything about it.

Haven't tried it myself. Anyone else?

[jztemple2]

There have been a multitude of small patches released and now info on a new DLC which you kind of knew was coming:

For the Commonwealth
The Commonwealth forces are deploying to the hex battlefields of "Second Front". Fight with and against them in new campaigns and scenarios. Those coming across these new forces will need to be aware of their precision on the battlefield.

New Desert Tile Set
A new desert tile set will be introduced with the release of this DLC and it will be available to all owners of the base game. New tiles include:
• Hamada
• Cactus
• Sand
• Sand Dunes
• Date Trees
• Sangar

New Decorations will be available for those looking to dress their Desert maps.

New structures will also be added that will allow units to deploy mortars on rooftops.

Environmental factors such as dusk and dawn sun blindness will need to be taken into account.

Dust from vehicles moving across the desert will also become a factor when engaging in battles within this new battlespace.

New features include
• Campaign: "Attack on Dier el Shein"
• Campaign: "Battle for Caen"
• 45 Tanks
• 8 Jeeps and Trucks
• 1 Bren Carrier
• 9 Guns
• 24 new Scenarios

Also take advantage of the British PIAT that is hurled by a spring, and avoid the the backblast indoors that is common of other anti tank infantry weapons.

[Holman]

Although the "Bully Beef" DLC highlights British fighting in North Africa, it also advertises a "Battle for Caen" campaign, which means British forces in Normandy.

The screenshots on Steam also present not only British but also early-war American units (e.g. Stuarts, Grants) in desert livery. I assume the Germans will get the same desert treatment.

We haven't seen snow terrain, so I assume that a Bulge/Russian winter DLC is still to come.

[jztemple2]

The screenshots on Steam also present not only British but also early-war American units (e.g. Stuarts, Grants) in desert livery.

Early after release I was building a scenario and noticed that the early American armor wasn't included, it would have been nice to have it for my "what if" scenario. Maybe I'll do a version 2.0 when it is released.

[Holman]

I can imagine future DLC as:

1) British Mediterranean/European along with US/German Med forces (already announced).
2) Late-war winter USA, German, British, and Russian forces (skins and scenarios).
3) Early/mid-war French, Italian, and minor Axis forces.
4) Pacific Japanese, British, and American (including USMC) forces and terrain.

[em2nought]

I can imagine future DLC as:

1) British Mediterranean/European along with US/German Med forces (already announced).
2) Late-war winter USA, German, British, and Russian forces (skins and scenarios).
3) Early/mid-war French, Italian, and minor Axis forces.
4) Pacific Japanese, British, and American (including USMC) forces and terrain.

Poland would be nice to have also.

[em2nought]

I really expected to be reading WAY more posts about this title helping me to not be able to resist the purchase. Guess I won't be waltzing my Matilda all over for awhile yet.

[jztemple2]

Guess I won't be waltzing my Matilda all over for awhile yet.

Nice reference . The dev is still active on Discord, so I'm guessing we will see the DLC at some point.

[jztemple2]

Here's another new screenshot from the DLC under development:

[jztemple2]

Something posted in the debug channel on Discord, showing some the new help items in the DLC

[Holman]

Is it confirmed yet that this DLC also includes European-theater (and late-war) British forces?

There's apparently a Caen campaign included, so I assume it does.

[jztemple2]

Is it confirmed yet that this DLC also includes European-theater (and late-war) British forces?

There's apparently a Caen campaign included, so I assume it does.

Yes, I'm assuming since there is a Caen campaign that there are post D-Day scenarios involving the Brits. While there may not be scenarios for the Fall of France period included in the DLC, I'm guessing those will show up in the Workshop at some point.

By the way, this image is from the DLC store page, for those who might have missed it. It would appear to be all the British guns and vehicles.

[Holman]

I see some late-war kit there (Sherman Firefly, late-war Stuart, etc), so I'm satisfied.

I wonder if they;ll have airborne-looking infantry units.

[jztemple2]

The developer just posted a couple of things over on Discord:

This is what I assume is the total count of guns and vehicles for the base game plus the DLC.

32 German Tanks
26 German Assault Guns
19 German Halftrack
11 German Armored Car
7 German Truck
15 German Gun
24 American Tanks
2 American Assault Guns
9 American Halftrack
3 American Armored Car
6 American Truck
7 American Gun
27 Russian Tanks
7 Russian Assault Guns
2 Russian Halftrack
3 Russian Armored Car
5 Russian Truck
10 Russian Gun
66 British Tanks
12 British Assault Guns
7 British Halftrack
21 British Armored Car
13 British Truck
19 British Gun
all: 299

And this image with the caption "adding vehicle notes". em2nought, here's your Matilda

[Holman]

The developer just posted a couple of things over on Discord:

This is what I assume is the total count of guns and vehicles for the base game plus the DLC.

32 German Tanks
26 German Assault Guns
19 German Halftrack
11 German Armored Car
7 German Truck
15 German Gun
24 American Tanks
2 American Assault Guns
9 American Halftrack
3 American Armored Car
6 American Truck
7 American Gun
27 Russian Tanks
7 Russian Assault Guns
2 Russian Halftrack
3 Russian Armored Car
5 Russian Truck
10 Russian Gun
66 British Tanks
12 British Assault Guns
7 British Halftrack
21 British Armored Car
13 British Truck
19 British Gun
all: 299

66 British tanks??

Those numbers don't add up, but maybe it's not counting duplications (such as American designs in British and Russian service) in the final total.