Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

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jztemple2
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Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by jztemple2 »



This game comes out next week but since some people have been showing interest in it I thought I'd start a thread now. From the Steam page:
The legendary city-builder returns. Lead the creation of one of the greatest civilizations the world has ever seen in this 4K remake with modernized UI. Build monuments, manage your population through hundred of hours of gameplay and explore 4,000 years of history through more than 50 missions.
But then some of you (and me) are old enough to remember the original, right? I've been following the game for awhile and it is on my day one purchase list. More information was released today. This news posting from the devs gives a text and photos description of the gameplay. Or if you prefer, there is an eight minute narrated video of gameplay. Post questions if you got 'em, as I said I've been following development.

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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by hepcat »

Wow, I remember playing this ages ago. Color me interested.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Carpet_pissr »

For whatever reason, I put all my city builder energy (and lots of it!) into only one title back then, Caesar III, even though I promptly bought Zeus and Pharaoh when they came out. I’m sure I at least tried them (and went back within the last 3 months to try Zeus, modded) but I just decided to wait and jump back in with this fully revamped title.

I’m very psyched about it.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by LordMortis »

I never played Pharoah. How did it compare to Children of the Nile. That was my second favorite builder of all time, behind Tropico II. Those two city builders were the games that made me fall in love with the idea of builders more than the builders themselves. I've bought many many many builder since then.

New Era looks a lot like a face lift of the old Caesar games and that is probably because the original was part of that series, wasn't it? I'd give it a try at discount prices but not at any real cost.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Carpet_pissr »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:45 am I never played Pharoah. How did it compare to Children of the Nile. That was my second favorite builder of all time, behind Tropico II. Those two city builders were the games that made me fall in love with the idea of builders more than the builders themselves. I've bought many many many builder since then.

New Era looks a lot like a face lift of the old Caesar games and that is probably because the original was part of that series, wasn't it? I'd give it a try at discount prices but not at any real cost.
Yes, Impressions made all three (IMO) iconic, OG city builders (really, "WALKERS") starting with Ceasar, then Zeus and Pharaoah after. Not sure of the order, but Caesar was definitely first. I bought Caesar IV, but always went back to III for some reason. It had plenty of flaws (a maddening, downright horrible military/war component for one), but it was so fun, and so beautiful. One of those games whose graphics almost didn't seem to age with time because they were so pretty and well done to begin with.

I tried Children of the Nile, but didn't really get into it primarily I think because I was expecting and hoping for a modern updated, Impressions walker...which it was kinda...but IMO they changed the formula too much (to be fair, trying to improve on the old, archaic mechanics of the previous walkers) and it didn't scratch the itch.

FWIW I am pretty confident that my perspective is tinted by rose-colored nostaligia glasses. :D

Same for Nebuchadnezzar (though part of that one also is it's just fugly. All shades of brown and olive green basically!) I recognize that Nebuchadnezzar made LOTS of tweaks and improvements to the walker game model, but again, for whatever reason, it just isn't as fun as the old, much more punishing titles that I love. Part of it could be that those early titles were more difficult, but when you got the balance just right, and your city flourished...the emotional satisfaction payout was off the charts. :D Probably true for a lot of the older games, and contributes to the sense of nostalgia in a gaming world that tends to shy away from "too hard" (and one reason the Souls games are so popular).
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Kraken »

COTN was an attempt to move citybuilders off the old "Simon engine" (named for the programmer who made it) behind all of the Impressions games from Caesar II forward, and replace their 2D isometric graphics with 3D graphics. It was arguably successful at that, but wasn't as good a game IMO. It didn't help that I got laid off a week after COTN shipped. :evil:
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by jztemple2 »

I'd be a little careful about making assumptions regarding Pharaoh: A New Era (hereafter PANE). I'm going to hope to see some reviews early next week to see if the game is really what I (and others) remember it to be, a lot of fun, or will it perhaps not aged gracefully.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Carpet_pissr »

jztemple2 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:03 pm I'd be a little careful about making assumptions regarding Pharaoh: A New Era (hereafter PANE). I'm going to hope to see some reviews early next week to see if the game is really what I (and others) remember it to be, a lot of fun, or will it perhaps not aged gracefully.
The whole point of a remake is to reduce or eliminate the impact of age, so unless you are referring to the original, not sure what you mean?
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by jztemple2 »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:36 am
jztemple2 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:03 pm I'd be a little careful about making assumptions regarding Pharaoh: A New Era (hereafter PANE). I'm going to hope to see some reviews early next week to see if the game is really what I (and others) remember it to be, a lot of fun, or will it perhaps not aged gracefully.
The whole point of a remake is to reduce or eliminate the impact of age, so unless you are referring to the original, not sure what you mean?
The articles I've seen also mention "hundreds of gamplay changes" which are probably for the most part all positive, but there might be some changes that remove or modify some aspects which I'd have preferred to be left alone. I guess I shouldn't have said "perhaps not aged gracefully", rather indicated that some of those hundreds of changes might not be welcomed by some folks.

It brings to mind when Starfleet Command III was released, the developer decided that people were too challenged with having six shields to manage so they changed the number to only four. Not the same genre of course, but something of an example.

Anyway, I'll be buying it day one just because I started this thread and someone has to take the bullet for the team :D :D
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Carpet_pissr »

jztemple2 wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:59 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:36 am
jztemple2 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:03 pm I'd be a little careful about making assumptions regarding Pharaoh: A New Era (hereafter PANE). I'm going to hope to see some reviews early next week to see if the game is really what I (and others) remember it to be, a lot of fun, or will it perhaps not aged gracefully.
The whole point of a remake is to reduce or eliminate the impact of age, so unless you are referring to the original, not sure what you mean?
The articles I've seen also mention "hundreds of gamplay changes" which are probably for the most part all positive, but there might be some changes that remove or modify some aspects which I'd have preferred to be left alone. I guess I shouldn't have said "perhaps not aged gracefully", rather indicated that some of those hundreds of changes might not be welcomed by some folks.
Ah, got it. And I could definitely be that kind of folk.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Kraken »

I replayed Pharaoh maybe 5-6 years ago and thought it held up pretty well, but there's always room for improvement.

The most valid criticism of Pharaoh (IMO) is that monuments took too long to build, even when you had a smoothly running city and plenty of resources. Some scenarios were a slog after all the challenges were overcome. While it's realistic that a great pyramid should take a very long time, that's not ideal for gameplay.

Some players grumbled about the military aspect, too, but none of all the Impressions citybuilders were good wargames.

Some design issues also arose because of the limited number of sprites a computer could handle back in the day.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by LordMortis »

Kraken wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:42 pm Some players grumbled about the military aspect, too, but none of all the Impressions citybuilders were good wargames.
From Zeus and the one Caesar game I played military was an afterthought. Nothing played, just something you needed to account for when you budget resources to grow your city. I don't even consider it a real aspect of the game beyond city budget planning, like taxes for road maintenance.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by jztemple2 »

The game is now available with a 15% discount for the next week. I've already downloaded and installed, but I won't be getting to it till this afternoon. More to follow.

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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by jztemple2 »

I've done the first two campaign missions which are just fairly simple tutorial missions. Annoyingly it isn't till part way through the second mission that the needed overlays are available. Also, and this is partly because I'm spoiled by playing Nebuchadnezzar, there are no range overlays which can be frustrating. I'm asked to put down a temple and I do so, but then there are no workers in it. Oh, it needs to be near housing. How near? That's not answered.

I know everyone is going to respond about walkers and how they have such and such a range and if you watch them you can figure it out. Well that's fine in the long run, but annoying early on. And this is also the situation for other services like fire stations. I put one down but it says it isn't working because there are no workers. But there is a house near it. But not near enough.

I had some other complaints but it turns out that the later tutorials turn on some features that aren't available early on. But there are some QoL items missing, like tooltips for some windows. So far not deal-breaking, but something I'd have flagged as a playtester.

Post your questions!
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by jztemple2 »

For those who played enough Pharaoh in the old days to remember how aspects of the game worked, this screenshot will highlight one of the significant changes in PANE. In the old game, for any building to have access to workers it had to be near enough to housing for a walker from that building to reach that housing. As I seem to remember, it wasn't the number of workers that was important, just that the work building walker could reach as least one house.

As the screenshot explains, there is now an option to switch to the global worker pool, which means that any work building connected to a road has access to workers. That's the way Nebuchadnezzar works and IIRC the Anno system works as well. It certainly will change how your cities are laid out.

Enlarge Image
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Interesting. Too early for you to give it a 1-10 rating?

So glad to hear that they give you both options for workers! I can’t remember if that’s one of the things that turned me off about Nebuchadnezzar or one of the things that impressed me!

82% positive reviews on Steam so far. Looks like I’ll be buying this.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by jztemple2 »

It is indeed too early for me to give a rating. As far as Buy, Pass by, or Wait, I been on Discord and there are a lot of bugs and issues being reported. Nothing earth-shattering, but enough that I'm going to hold off playing for awhile. If the 15% discount is important to you then pick it up. Otherwise you might want to hold off till the patches roll out.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Carpet_pissr »

jztemple2 wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:54 pm It is indeed too early for me to give a rating. As far as Buy, Pass by, or Wait, I been on Discord and there are a lot of bugs and issues being reported. Nothing earth-shattering, but enough that I'm going to hold off playing for awhile. If the 15% discount is important to you then pick it up. Otherwise you might want to hold off till the patches roll out.
Yeah, just spent 30m reading Steam reviews and in that time the percent positive dropped down to 80% from 82%. Lots of seemingly legit, reasoned complaints.

No minimap and inability to rotate were recurring complaints. Worse combat than original also doesn’t sound great, and also doesn’t seem like something they would fix with a patch.

Guess I will hold off until I see at least the bugs getting ironed out.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by jztemple2 »

I lied, I am still playing, mostly because I don't want to go back to Nebuchadnezzar since my DLC for Field of Glory 2 releases tomorrow. I've moved past the tutorial missions and I'm at the mission Men-Nefer, the first where almost all the features come into play. I'm at the phase in learning the game where I understand the basic mechanics and now it is more about expanding my city and seeing what I'm not doing correctly to keep it going.

Enlarge Image

Update: I like this quote from Discord:
the good news is that it removed a lot of the fuzzy annoying quirks and guesswork from the old system 🙂

the bad news is that it removed a lot of the fuzzy annoying quirks and guesswork from the old system 😦
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by YellowKing »

Pharaoah was one of the first games I ever beta tested back in the day. Definitely looking forward to this.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Kraken »

I'm sure I'll eventually buy it. Oh, the irony.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by jztemple2 »

More words from the devs about the game:
Greetings everyone,

Pharaoh: A New Era launched a week ago and today we need to tell you more about what’s next for the game. First of all, we can assure you that we are working on bug fixes (saves being corrupted or any other bug that prevents mission completion).

A few words about the mini-map native ultrawide support and military system:

Several players voiced their concern and frustration regarding the lack of mini-map but also native ultrawide support. Today, we can confirm that we started working on both features that will provide a better player experience.

Regarding the military system, we need more time to investigate and consider all improvements that could be brought to it before saying more. However, here also we can confirm that it will be improved in the future.

Is there any ETA for the implementation or improvements of the features mentioned above?

To be honest with you, we're 100% focused on bug fixes and the implementation of both features before moving on to the military system and anything else that requires improvements. We remind you that any change brought in-game needs to be fully tested and approved before we deploy it. That's why we cannot give any ETA at the moment but we will do our best to bring the mini-map and native ultrawide support as soon as possible.

Is the map editor still in the works?

Yes, it is. The map editor’s deployment was postponed to grant us more time to work on and polish it. This feature will be implemented in a post-launch update as stated in our previous blog post but we’d rather give no ETA as we need to prioritize bug fixes and the implementation of native ultrawide support and mini-map before moving on to anything else.

Let's get back to work

On behalf of the whole Pharaoh: A New Era Team, we’d like to thank you all for playing and sharing constructive feedback and suggestions. Please keep in mind that even if we don’t always reply, we do keep an eye on every single thread and discussion
going on.

• If you just ran into a bug while playing and need assistance, report it on our
‘Bug Report/Technical support’ subforum
• You played Pharaoh: A New Era and would like to share some feedback or suggestions with the team? Use the dedicated 'Feedback & Suggestions'
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Interesting: Metacritic: 82 currently, Steam has dropped from 82% positive reviews on release day, down to 62%!

Ouch.

Remakes of games are tough though, because on one hand you have a group of players who want JUST a modernizing of their perfect game. Others want the same underlying game, but with new maps, maybe better (potentially) ways of doing things from the OG, etc. Never going to please both groups.

I personally would love just a modernization (basically a facelift wrt graphics and UI refresh), but maybe also some new maps. That would be the ideal "remake" for me, but everyone of course has different views on how things should be remade.

Sounds like these guys chose the worst of both world though, in changing some things that people loved or liked (music, some UI things, miltiary system and several other things I can't recall), but added absolutely no new content. Weird.

Note again that I will absolutely be buying this, it's just that I will probably now wait for a sale since I see the initial feedback from fans of the original (like me).

From the most helpful voted review on Steam FWIW - I think they make some interesting points, but note also that he said he LIKES the music, whereas I saw many other reviewers wonder what the hell was going on with the music they chose, OG music better, etc. My biggest concern might be "UI is difficult to navigate - a lot clunkier than the original" which just...boggles the mind considering when the original was made. Those early Impressions games had notoriously (by today's standards) janky/finicky/unintuitive interfaces. According to this guy, they made it...worse?!? Yowch (if true). It was the primary reason I would be interested in a remake. The graphics are actually not horrible after all these years (even for Caesar III), and there are mods for widescreen as well. But the UI is what made me stop playing these in more recent years...just couldn't handle it when I have been spoiled by 15 (?) years of UI development and best practices, etc. If it's true that they made it worse, that's a pretty big knock against the remake ("you had ONE job!" and all that...).
Spoiler:
Sadly, I have to give this remake a thumbs down for many reasons. I spent too many hours as a kid to count and even more as an adult on the original game. Old vs new review

Pros and cons:

Pros:
I like the music remakes
The art style is beautiful
The loyalty to the original (for the most part)
Nostalgia

Cons:
Waiting two years for a buggy and otherwise poor quality game
Can't rotate maps - why was this removed?
No mini-map
UI is difficult to navigate - a lot clunkier than the original with massive notifications
Many graphs and buttons with no explanation or meaning. You have to decipher them like genuine hieroglyphics.
They completely reworked the military system. You no longer have any control of he units and cannot move them on the map. They opted for a auto-generated combat system. Not a fan. This is in no way like the original and is awful. Why would they change it?
Due to the military change, the hostile animals have free reign on the map and ransack your town and there is nothing you can do about it. Even the constables do nothing to the animals. Why?

I'll be going back to the original for now. This is not a step up from the original but a step down. I pray the developers take these negative feedback and really ask themselves why they choose to remake this game and what were they trying to achieve. I feel they spent way to much time reworking the music and the graphics and not enough attention to the end user experience.

I may update this review later. For now it is a disappointment.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Kraken »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:28 pm Sounds like these guys chose the worst of both world though, in changing some things that people loved or liked (music, some UI things, miltiary system and several other things I can't recall), but added absolutely no new content. Weird.
Well, my interest in this remake just plummeted. First, I loved the music in the original game. The composer (Keith) burned CDs for everyone on staff and I used to listen to mine in my car. Those were all original compositions. I wonder if there were copyright restrictions. Second, the only reason I'd want to play a remake instead of the OG is for new missions in a new campaign. I know how much work went into creating and playbalancing all those missions; I made the "empire map" myself and scripted a couple of the scenarios. Maybe I should be flattered that they kept them. But really, if they reused the maps and scripts then it's literally the same game, and playing the same game in a new wrapper doesn't appeal to me at all.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by jztemple2 »

The devs have released a new update for the game, the first since early April. Details can be found here
Greetings Pharaohs,

We’re deploying a new update that brings several QoL improvements as well as bug fixes to Pharaoh: A New Era. As always, the team is grateful to the community for its everlasting support and love for the game.
And from their Discord channel:
It's been a long time but we finally have an update for you!

🎨New Overlays
🔕Notification Management
🔧Various Bugfixes & Optimization
✨20% off until the 12th of June!
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Max Peck »

Wait, what?

Oh...

Wrong Pharaoh. I'll see myself out and go grab a second coffee. :oops:
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Did they fix the uglification that they unleashed on this remake?

(UI fonts, etc.)
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Adeptus »

I remember playing original version. It was cool... Until someone invaded Your city, because battles were chaotic mess.
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Re: Pharaoh: A New Era - a new release of an old classic

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Combat was never a forte with any of the Impressions games IIRC. Something to be avoided, or dealt with as quickly as possible so you could get back to the fun of building out your city.
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