NFL 2023 Regular Season Plus SUPERBOWL!

[El Guapo]

I’ve been sitting here for almost a week now hearing about OMG Mahomes is the greatest ever. Meanwhile, I watched him QB his team to 12 pts, 5 punts and 2 turnovers (outside of the random ball bouncing off an ankle that gifted them a 1 play TD).

This is how you sounded after the first few SB wins Brady had.

Only in as much as this SB was only possible because of (and was won by) the KC defense. And it annoys the crap out of me when people ignore that in favor of over the top fawning over a QB who had a mediocre game.

Well, I wouldn't say that he had a mediocre game. 34 for 46 for 333 yards and another 66 yards on the ground, with two touchdowns. You also have to factor in that outside of Kelce the Kansas City receiver corps isn't exactly littered with stars.

[RunningMn9]

Well, I wouldn't say that he had a mediocre game. 34 for 46 for 333 yards and another 66 yards on the ground, with two touchdowns. You also have to factor in that outside of Kelce the Kansas City receiver corps isn't exactly littered with stars.

If you watch the box score, I get what you are saying. If you watch the game, I don’t.

Aside from the special teams gift, the KC offense mustered 5 punts, 2 turnovers, and 12 points in regulation, in what would have been a loss.

But a ball bounces off an ankle and they get a free 1 play TD. One of the SF top defenders blows an Achilles running onto the field. A rookie kicker botches an XP. Without all of those things, there is no final TD drive (against a gassed defense). Without the KC defense holding the line, there is no overtime.

We are slaves to the outcome. This entire playoff run was fueled by Spagnola’s defense. KC’s defense suffocated everyone (except BUF to a degree). Can we just give them credit instead of taking the lazy way out?

[Carpet_pissr]

I've always felt that the QB's always get too much of the credit...and it just seems accepted in sports media, even by ex-players. So it's the one thing I just file away in my brain as "that doesn't seem right, but it must be so" and shut up about it.

It's a fucking team, people!!! There...I let it slip out after all these years...and now I will put it back in its box.

[RunningMn9]

I guess SB’s are like everything else. It doesn’t matter what actually happens in the game. All that matters is the narrative.

I just spent a season where I watched Josh Allen get one vote for MVP, and miss out on the Pro Bowl and All-Pro voting.

In their 6 losses this year, Allen handed over a lead to the defense in the last 2 minutes of the game 4 times. If the defense does its job, the Bills finish 15-2 atop the AFC. As the league leader in yardage and TDs (by a wide margin), I guarantee you he is the unanimous MVP in that scenario and we are all talking about how he has shattered the mark for total touchdowns scored to start his career, and for being the first player in NFL history to score 40+ TDs in four consecutive years. I guarantee you that he’s both first team All-Pro and the starter for the AFC in the Pro Bowl.

All without taking a single additional snap. How we interpret football is broken. It’s driven by outcomes that generally don’t have anything to do with what we just watched.

Like 9 times this season Allen took the field for his final time down by one score. He tied or took the lead all 9 times. The defense gave away four of those games. I hate this timeline.

[El Guapo]

Well, I wouldn't say that he had a mediocre game. 34 for 46 for 333 yards and another 66 yards on the ground, with two touchdowns. You also have to factor in that outside of Kelce the Kansas City receiver corps isn't exactly littered with stars.

If you watch the box score, I get what you are saying. If you watch the game, I don’t.

Aside from the special teams gift, the KC offense mustered 5 punts, 2 turnovers, and 12 points in regulation, in what would have been a loss.

But a ball bounces off an ankle and they get a free 1 play TD. One of the SF top defenders blows an Achilles running onto the field. A rookie kicker botches an XP. Without all of those things, there is no final TD drive (against a gassed defense). Without the KC defense holding the line, there is no overtime.

We are slaves to the outcome. This entire playoff run was fueled by Spagnola’s defense. KC’s defense suffocated everyone (except BUF to a degree). Can we just give them credit instead of taking the lazy way out?

I think people are giving the KC defense a ton of credit - "in Spags we trust" and all that. I've read a lot of discussion online about how this is the worst offense of the Mahomes era. At the same time, though - Mahomes was really good in the 4th quarter and overtime, and I think it's pretty clear that the problems with the Chiefs offense were not with Mahomes.

[RunningMn9]

I’m not saying Mahomes is trash.

I’m saying that if your reaction to this game was “OMG MAHOMES IS THE BEST QB I’VE EVER SEEN”, then you are being a slave to the outcome and the last thing you saw. You might also be completely incapable of context.

To be fair, I’m reacting to my Twitter timeline, which is algorithmically programmed to infuriate me, so what I’m seeing may not be what you see.

Side note: I’ve had to spend much of the last two weeks explaining why Tom Brady > Pat Mahomes (at this point). F the internet for making me defend Tom Brady.

[Isgrimnur]

To be fair, I’m reacting to my Twitter timeline, which is algorithmically programmed to infuriate me, so what I’m seeing may not be what you see.

Might be time for a new hobby

[msteelers]

I agree on Allen being the actual MVP. If it was going to go to a QB this year it should have been him, even with those losses.

[El Guapo]

I’m not saying Mahomes is trash.

I’m saying that if your reaction to this game was “OMG MAHOMES IS THE BEST QB I’VE EVER SEEN”, then you are being a slave to the outcome and the last thing you saw. You might also be completely incapable of context.

To be fair, I’m reacting to my Twitter timeline, which is algorithmically programmed to infuriate me, so what I’m seeing may not be what you see.

Side note: I’ve had to spend much of the last two weeks explaining why Tom Brady > Pat Mahomes (at this point). F the internet for making me defend Tom Brady.

Gotcha. And also

[Isgrimnur]

I agree on Allen being the actual MVP. If it was going to go to a QB this year it should have been him, even with those losses.

Now if the team just knew clock management.

[Isgrimnur]

Already thought he was an ass, and a terrible winner. This didn’t improve my opinion of him.

I want to like him and generally speaking, I don't have a very strong opinion, but I must say - the little peaks I've had at the person underneath it all - I'm not terribly impressed either.

He's also a sloppy drunk.

Look, all anyone should need to know about this is that Tom Brady defended his outburst.

To Reid, yeah - I'm not even talking about that.

No question, the Eagles have the better Kelce!

Had.

Hold your horses! No. 62 hasn't made a decision yet, and at least his brother thinks he's got some more football in him.

But, if I were betting, I'd put money on retirement. He's had a great career and is probably a first ballot HoF candidate. The Eagles are in some disarray right now with a coaching staff revamp and Sirianni being shoved into more of a HC/CEO role. With two new coordinators (Fangio and Moore), who knows what kind of product the Eagles are going to put on the field next year? It's not a rebuild by any means, but it's also far from a sure thing that this team is ready to compete for another Super Bowl. I don't think Kelce is coming back with all that uncertainty.

Jason is retiring.

[Isgrimnur]

NFL owners approve ban on swivel hip-drop tackling technique

The hip-drop tackling ban proposal was written to address only a subset of the rugby tackling style that has spread around the NFL in recent years, competition committee chairman Rich McKay said last week.

The tackling technique often results in lower-body injuries. The rule requires officials to note two actions: If a defender "grabs the runner with both hands or wraps the runner with both arms" and also "unweights himself by swiveling and dropping his hips and/or lower body, landing on and trapping the runner's leg(s) at or below the knee."

On Monday, McKay clarified that Monday's rule change doesn't eliminate the hip-drop tackle -- only the "swivel technique that doesn't get used very often."
...
NFL executive vice president Jeff Miller said there were 230 instances of the tackling technique occurring during a game last season, with 15 players missing time as a result.

The league played a video during a news conference to show six specific plays in which the hip-drop tackle was used in games, with tight end Drew Sample, running back Tony Pollard, receiver Tyler Boyd, quarterback Geno Smith and quarterback Ryan Tannehill all being on the receiving end of the now-illegal hit.
...
In addition, two other proposals were approved:

Teams will receive a third challenge after one successful challenge. Previously, teams had to be successful on two challenges to receive a third. The proposal was submitted by the Lions.

If there is a double foul during a down in which there is a change or changes of possession, including if one of the fouls is a post-possession foul by a team during a scrimmage kick, the team last gaining possession will keep the ball after enforcement for its foul, provided it did not foul before last gaining possession.

[Unagi]

In addition, two other proposals were approved:
Teams will receive a third challenge after one successful challenge. Previously, teams had to be successful on two challenges to receive a third.


The proposal was submitted by the Lions.

[Isgrimnur]

Sidelion Report

Last season, Lions head coach Dan Campbell challenged a play four times and all four were upheld (0-for-4). During the 2022 season he was 2-for-4 on challenges, and in 2021 he was 1-for-4.

So, because #math, Campbell is 3-for-12 on challenges over three seasons as Lions' head coach, and he's been one of the least successful coaches at challenging calls on the field. Add in his time as the Miami Dolphins' interim head coach in 2015, when he went 3-for-3, and he's 6-for-15 on challenges as a head coach.

[TheMix]

Am I understanding correctly?

"230 instances of the tackling technique occurring during a game last season, with 15 players missing time as a result" seems to be saying that ~7% of those tackles resulted in the player being tackled getting injured and missing subsequent games. That seems like an insane percentage.

[Carpet_pissr]

Speaking of Detroit, if you are reading this thread and you haven't yet watched the documentary on Barry Sanders, you must.

It called "Run, Barry, Run!" (jk, it's called "Bye Bye Barry") and currently streaming (at least) on Amazon Prime Video. It's fantastic, and I am not a Lions fan (or foe). I am Lion agnostic I guess.

[Isgrimnur]

Am I understanding correctly?

"230 instances of the tackling technique occurring during a game last season, with 15 players missing time as a result" seems to be saying that ~7% of those tackles resulted in the player being tackled getting injured and missing subsequent games. That seems like an insane percentage.

And now you know why it's being banned.

[El Guapo]

Am I understanding correctly?

"230 instances of the tackling technique occurring during a game last season, with 15 players missing time as a result" seems to be saying that ~7% of those tackles resulted in the player being tackled getting injured and missing subsequent games. That seems like an insane percentage.

And now you know why it's being banned.

Well, according to a lot of social media posts, it's more because they want to "take the football out of football" and water down the sport by not allowing defenders to tackle people.

[Zarathud]

But social media is stupid and doesn’t know a real tackle.

[El Guapo]

But social media is stupid and doesn’t know a real tackle.

Yes, that is correct.

[RunningMn9]

What annoys me is the number of ex-players screaming about how defenders can’t play football anymore. The tackle in question was invented in 2002, for rugby. It didn’t see use in the NFL for a few years after that.

Somehow DBs were tackling Mark Bavaro before 2002, just do that.

But yeah, there were about 200 or so incidents of the banned tackle last season. Out of almost 21000 tackles across 272 games. I don’t imagine anyone will notice that the tackle is banned.

[Isgrimnur]

Interesting piece on Vontae Davis (walked away from Bills last year at halftime).

Former NFL cornerback Vontae Davis found dead at age 35

"This morning, Davie Police Officers responded to 6051 SW 178th Avenue in reference to a medical call. Officers were called to the residence by the house assistant, who found the homeowner deceased. We can confirm that the deceased individual is Vontae Davis age 35. Preliminary information suggests that foul play is not involved," Davie police said in a statement.

[stessier]

Well that's no good.

[RunningMn9]

Are you kidding me Brandon Beane?