Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms

[Tao]

I believe My Singing Monsters has been a pretty popular app with kids for the past few years, looks like they are now developing a board game. It's on KS and the campaign closes in 10 hours if anyone is interested, just came across it.

[baelthazar]

Dungeon Party is apparently coming along. I do have a friendship with the developer, but there's a chance it could make an appearance at a future Octocon once they resume (preferable with the developer doing the demo).

Uhhh.... do you mean Glenn Drover? Are you friends with Glenn Drover? Solid designer.

I am still tempted to late pledge his Mosaic game:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/95 ... le_created

[Jeff V]

Uhhh.... do you mean Glenn Drover? Are you friends with Glenn Drover? Solid designer.

I am still tempted to late pledge his Mosaic game:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/95 ... le_created

Yes, and I do know him. He lives about 20 minutes from me. And I'm looking at that game too, but I kind of need a job before I go on a pledging spree.

[hepcat]

Well, this is a pleasant surprise. My copy of Terraforming Mars: Ares Expedition is out for delivery today. That's 3 months ahead of schedule.

Of course, a LOT of people are upset that you could buy it at Target as of a week or two ago. I can see why they're upset since Stronghold Games failed to even tell people this was happening until the day before they did it. But as long as I'm getting some extra bling (I am) for being a backer, I'm not that upset over it.

[LordMortis]

Hmmm... Guess I'm stopping by Target on the way home tonight....

Edit: Reading the rules. This is a lot like Race for the galaxy so far...

[hepcat]

Yup. It's a marriage of Race for the Galaxy/San Juan and Terraforming Mars.

I just unpacked my copy. The kickstarter edition is blinged out, I must say. Component trays, extra cards, etc.. I'll probably watch the learn to play videos tonight and give the solo game a try this week. That or play it head to head on Saturday.

[Zarathud]

Did you say Terraforming Mars had a baby with Race for the Galaxy? …he says from inside your house…

[hepcat]

Very much so. It uses the same role selection mechanic from Race, but keeps the same engine building game from Terraforming Mars. You still have to raise the levels of the three environment settings to end the game. There are a TON of cards, which I was afraid wouldn't be the case with this smaller implementation of TM.

I'm around all weekend. Just let me know if you want to try it out with me.

[LordMortis]

Will be interesting to see how this goes in my group. While I really like Race, it's not a hit with my fellow gamers. However, they are completely addicted TM. I think all of the TM goodness would tip the scales here to accept a RaceLike except it's missing one key element and that element is not a value addition for this dynamic. Card drafting. I think card drafting is an absolutely necessary part of the competitive fun of TM. The game is in hand, so I'm sure we'll play this weekend. I may even try solo tonight. I guess I'll be able to switch threads soon...

[hepcat]

To anyone who is thinking about picking this one up: f you're checking scores on BGG for this one, take into account that the pissed off backers who can't get over Stronghold Games releasing this to retail a few weeks before shipping it to them have poisoned the score.

The Dice Tower 4 Squares review (Tom Vassal and 3 other reviewers) just gave it a glowing recommendation, as did Man vs. Meeple. However, Quackalope seems to be meh on it. Just watch a few reviews though and you'll easily be able to see if it's for you or not.

[LordMortis]

Played through solo. Finished the oceans. Finished Temp. Got O2 to 8%. Looks pretty doable on regular basis solo once you grok it.

Edit: Took 4 playthroughs but I finally got the knack... or the luck. Not sure enough to know.

[hepcat]

I played a two player game yesterday. I like it, but I do have two issues:

1) It's very much Terraforming Mars. If it were significantly shorter, that would be a good thing. It's my experience though that it is not that much shorter than a game of TM. So I have to wonder if the differences are worth playing it instead of TM?

2) Simultaneous play is great...until you get to the action phase. Especially late game. It's a fundamentally broken mechanic at that point. Race for the Galaxy acknowledges that simultaneous play has its limitations in this kind of game and adds a rule that when player order matters, the player with the lowest numbered world goes first if they want to. As it stands, our game dissolved into an argument at one point over the other player getting the same bonus twice from a final ocean tile played when they could have had a wider variety of bonus resources if I hadn't reached over first and flipped the last two before they saw what I was doing, was fair.

So, overall I like it a lot. But I do think it needs an expansion to iron out the rules more (or at least a clarification on simultaneous play when player order would matter) and to speed things up a bit.

[LordMortis]

I played a two player game yesterday. I like it, but I do have two issues:

1) It's very much Terraforming Mars. If it were significantly shorter, that would be a good thing. It's my experience though that it is not that much shorter than a game of TM. So I have to wonder if the differences are worth playing it instead of TM?

2) Simultaneous play is great...until you get to the action phase. Especially late game. It's a fundamentally broken mechanic at that point. Race for the Galaxy acknowledges that simultaneous play has its limitations in this kind of game and adds a rule that when player order matters, the player with the lowest numbered world goes first if they want to. As it stands, our game dissolved into an argument at one point over the other player getting the same bonus twice from a final ocean tile played when they could have had a wider variety of bonus resources if I hadn't reached over first and flipped the last two before they saw what I was doing, was fair.

So, overall I like it a lot. But I do think it needs an expansion to iron out the rules more (or at least a clarification on simultaneous play when player order would matter) and to speed things up a bit.

Our TM games are much longer than the the card game. I would say 3 player = 2.5 hours in TM and 90 minutes in the card game, which expect will get shorter if we decide we like it and play it more.

I'm confused about the simultaneous play. I think it's kind of elegant. The action phase does get ugly when choosing to end one of the areas, but the game allows you to continue plugging in resources on the phase after the last one bit is exhausted. It's an interesting detente seeing is someone is going to finish a track or end the game and then watching the table react when someone makes the move.

Why wouldn't you flipping the last two over be fair as long as you are clear the order in which you flip them? Literally the only way that would matter is if someone memorized the values of all of the tiles and knew the values of the last two and knew they needed exactly those last two tiles. And if they were that anal, you'd think they be setting themselves for dibs on those tiles. I guess that's not my style of game. I'm competitive but not that competitive.

[hepcat]

Our TM games are much longer than the the card game. I would say 3 player = 2.5 hours in TM and 90 minutes in the card game, which expect will get shorter if we decide we like it and play it more.

Our two player game was a little over 3 1/2 hours. I would say maybe a half hour to discuss/learn rules. For me, I don't see a significant reduction in time between this and full game of TM. Just like in TM, folks can sometimes concentrate too much on the engine and less on ending the game by fulfilling the requirements. This applies equally to TM and Ares Expedition as they both have the same end game mechanic and it's not changed much (beyond removing cities and greenery placement). Hence the time issue being similar. Is it shorter? A little bit. But certainly not to the point where I would ever call this a "quick version of TM".

I'm confused about the simultaneous play. I think it's kind of elegant. The action phase does get ugly when choosing to end one of the areas, but the game allows you to continue plugging in resources on the phase after the last one bit is exhausted. It's an interesting detente seeing is someone is going to finish a track or end the game and then watching the table react when someone makes the move.

Read through my scenario above again. Having the action phase relegated to "whoever reaches their arm out first" in a situation that certainly can make a difference for numerous reasons (duplicating the last drawn ocean tile's bonus resources when the previous one that you didn't reach out fast enough to get would have been much better for you, as I noted in my example) is not what I would call elegant. I play with some competitive people and this just annoyed one of them on Saturday to no end.

Beyond the scenario I described, there are also situations in the end game where this is just unfair. This thread on BGG goes into much more detail.

Being outplayed because of strategy is one thing. Being outplayed because they have quicker physical reflexes is another.

It needs to be fixed. There are some house rules suggested in that thread that I may try to use next time. But if you've ever played Race for the Galaxy, I have to ask you why they explicitly put in a rule for those times when player order is important if it really isn't?

Is it a fun game? Yes, very much so. But it is way too similar to TM to be something I would recommend to anyone who already owns TM. If it were much quicker (like half the play time of TM) I would wholeheartedly recommend it. But it is not. Nor do I see how it would ever be a significantly faster game than TM.

[LordMortis]

I read the thread and I concur with people "who don't understand". I see it as a feature, not a flaw. I get the annoyance of your gaming partner, that you flipped over 2 tiles and he felt jilted at only being able to use the last tile. But at the same time if the last tile was what he needed several times instead of the diversity of tiles, you'd be the sucker for going too quick.

[hepcat]

I feel the same way about your issue with science and space tags in TM. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on both.

I would like to point out that AE has barely been out for two weeks and there are are already a few separate threads on BGG on simultaneous play (especially during the action phase) being somewhat problematic. So in my mind, it's most certainly not a "feature". A simple solution like RtfG has with player card numbers determining player order when it becomes an issue would be an easy fix. So I'm not saying the entire game is broken. Just that this particular portion of the game should be addressed as an issue.

[Smoove_B]

Somehow I missed this last week. I know he's been working on this for *years* so I'm excited to finally see it. How is this the first time someone thought of a swappable head for a mini???



Instaback for me when it launches.

[wonderpug]

(From the makers of the popular Xia: Legends of a Drift System, for those who liked that one!)

[Smoove_B]

I thought I added that, but whoops - thanks for including that. Definitely part of the reason it's an instant back for me.

[hepcat]

Somehow I missed this last week. I know he's been working on this for *years* so I'm excited to finally see it. How is this the first time someone thought of a swappable head for a mini???

I can only imagine now easy it will be lose those tiny heads though.

[Zarathud]

Pretty sure this one will hit all my triggers, including an organizer with a box of heads.

[Isgrimnur]

MAGNETS!

[hepcat]

Effing magnets. How do they work?

[hentzau]

Not sure I need another fantasy board game, but it’s Cody Miller so…that lends a lot of support to backing it.

[AWS260]

I am a sucker for this theme.

[Zarathud]

Received notice that they’ve generated a shipping label (and thus in the que) for my Reaper Bones order. I’m going to need a bigger box of (unpainted) shame.

[Isgrimnur]

I can send you my untouched V1 box.

[Blackhawk]

Received notice that they’ve generated a shipping label (and thus in the que) for my Reaper Bones order. I’m going to need a bigger box of (unpainted) shame.

I need to get to painting. If I get a bigger box it'll achieve PVC critical mass. After that, bad things may happen.

[Zarathud]

Bones have arrived. It’s a pretty full box.

Edit:Wave 5.

[Blackhawk]

Wave 1 order hasn't shipped. I had stuff in the missing container.

[AWS260]

A pretty frank update on the latest Cthulhu Wars Kickstarter. Long story short, they have enough money to produce copies for Kickstarter backers, but they don't have enough money to produce copies for retail, which they need to generate revenue that will keep the company afloat. So they're waiting until they have a loan and/or investment money to do a big enough production run to cover backers and retail.

I didn't back CW, but I did back Glorantha, their subsequent project. I suspect I won't be seeing that one until late 2022/early 2023, which is honestly fine given all the other games I want to get played.

[hepcat]

I have to say, if I had backed that I would be a little annoyed with them. As it stands, I'm glad I've avoided their projects.

It's one thing to admit you misjudged production demands. It's another to tell your customers you want a shot at the brass ring that just appeared...and they now have to wait an indeterminate amount of time for what you promised them.

[Zarathud]

Didn’t Sandy Peterson do this on an earlier project too? His vision is great, but his project management is terrible.

[baelthazar]

Petersen Games is well know for delays. Given the situation with China and shipping, I am not surprised - a lot of companies are coming out with similar "this will end our business" messages. They way they sold this was a bit... different (we are in too much demand that we might go under), but shipping and production in China is pretty insane at the moment.

Kickstarter isn't a store. I know we all are right to expect delivery of the products we back, but I've been burned before on it (particularly with most of the video games I backed). I am very worried about Hyperspace (which I went all in on), even through they claimed we would get our games in August (that does not seem likely). I haven't backed their other stuff (additional Planet Apocalypse stuff and the Cthulhu Wars OS) because, frankly, I got so much stuff in the initial KS that I will never end up using it all.

I don't think these guys are scammers or liars, more that they just get themselves in over their heads. It's odd, because Chaosium specifically brought Sandy back in to turn the company around (successfully) and they were able to deliver their Call of Cthulhu RPG edition with his help. It is strange he has trouble doing the same for his company.

[hepcat]

I don't think these guys are scammers or liars, more that they just get themselves in over their heads.

I think they saw a chance to make more money than they initially thought they could, and they're now doing that at the expense of their original backers. They're treating their backers like they're friends who will understand that they just got a really good opportunity to make more money if those same friends will just be patient about getting their loan repaid. That ain't gonna fly.

I will say that I think they may actually be guilty of lying though, if I'm reading the comments correctly. They kept telling their backers "it's coming, don't worry" up until as recently as a month or so ago. Then a few days before the promised delivery date, they drop this bombshell. That sounds a little bit like deception to me.

[baelthazar]

Well, Arthur just released an update on Hyperspace that sounds like another delay (past the August 31 ship date) but he specifically says the CWO4 situation won’t affect Hyperspace. I’m skeptical but we will see.

They might be trying to make more money, but I believe them when they say this is “do or die.” I also believe Sandy has sunk a lot of his personal finances into keeping the company afloat. I do think they have been playing a shell game of “one KS’s profits goes towards fulfilling the overflow from the previous KS projects” (sort of like a Ponzi scheme). That will eventually bite them in the butt.

[Lordnine]

I have a bit of a different perspective on the whole Cthulhu Wars thing since I have experience in the industry now. I’m also a backer of Cataclysm. I can understand the shipping woes, they are legitimately awful right now, enough that I am delaying my next project at least a month or two to wait things out. That said, their update comes across more as chasing money to make up for completely mismanaging their finances.

What really concerns me is an update that Arthur posted on BGG where he basically stated that PG keeps everyone who works on their projects, specifically their artists employed full time. He used this as an excuse to keep producing new Kickstarters to justify keeping staff employed. This just set off so many alarm bells in my head that I did a double take. Artists are expensive. Not even Fantasy Flight Games keeps all its artist employed full time, I know because I hired one of them. If Peterson Games keeps all of their employees, most of which seem like family members, on full time with a normal 9-5 salary, they are burning money. Small boardgame publishing is not sustainable if run like they are trying and I am seriously skeptical about even their short term viability as a company.

[hepcat]

Chronicles of DougFlutie or whatever it's called, is up now on gamefound. I backed it at the Hero pledge level for the reprint of the first game because smoove said to. I figure if I like it, I'll grab the expansions on the next gamefound campaign.

Shipping to the U.S. is expensive, but I think they all are right now. I just read an email update from CMON that the Zombicide project for the wild west theme won't be shipping to Denmark at all now due to current world shipping issues/recent changes in Danish trade law or something.

[Smoove_B]

Chronicles of DougFlutie or whatever it's called, is up now on gamefound.

I'm all in on the original pledge and picking up the new expansion to get in on all the stretch goals. Everything I've been reading is telling me this game is in my wheelhouse - true solo with lite RPG elements.

[hepcat]

Which pledge level and what add on are you getting?