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Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

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LordMortis
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by LordMortis »

TheMix wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:13 pm The two ways I manage province unhappiness:
1. Get Healers at Tier 1, then grab the Abbey at Tier 2. Brethren of the Light aren't very powerful, but they'll stop undead invasions. And they boost the happiness of the province.
2. Tier 2 Theater will allow your Pub in the provinces to offset unhappiness.

Of course, at your stage, the buildings may not be available yet.

I've also focused on getting Karma whenever possible. Apparently some of it carries over to the strategic level. And it's "good" somehow.

As for pegasi, I was using them, but I found they don't hold up too well at higher levels. They die really easy. I think the Horsemen tend to be a bit more useful.

As for guards, grab the Swordsmen and the Crossbowmen. Then, from the 2nd Tier you'll be able to grab the Lookout Tower. The Watchmen guards are pretty decent.

Though.... I think you said you were still playing Genesis. I'm not sure how much of that translates to the earlier game.
I think they are nearly identical.

I'll try to remember that about the Abbeys/brethern (who are likely a ways away) I have been using guards because they decreae the unhappiness progression by 3. The theater upgrade is the one I'll be debating next time around. It's on an otherwise wholly crappy shard though. At the same, if managing happiness turns out to be as ugly as it's looking this time then it may be time to just take the crappy shard.

I also play a good karma game. I'm not sure where but it does reduce unrest at a high enough level and I read that 20% (good or bad) carries over from shard to shard.

I think I have the watchmen available but I still prefer the guards for their ablity to reduce unrest growth.

Pegasi are a house of cards but they can get across the battlefield on turn one. They used to be killer en masse with a commander beefing them. Though IIRC I never made it past shard 13 so they may become under powered later. I didn't use them to kill cults or ancients or dragons. I used them to kill hoards of regular units before they had a chance to go. I want to say in combo with elves who took shots from across the board to weaken tougher troops before sending in the pegasus. It's been a while though. When I get there, we'll see how poor my memory is.
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Baroquen
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by Baroquen »

I'm playing in slow increments, but I did wrap up my post-tutorial first "real" shard yesterday. I had forgotten you can carry over heroes/troops to the next round. So while I couldn't afford the troops or gear from my mega hero, I was able to pull through my lvl 14 archer to start the next shard. That was fun.

Unhappiness was a bigger problem for the first shard, than so far on my second. I had to do a little dance (and reloading) when I ran into the local lord, but I think I have him almost beat. Then I have to tackle the grey haired dude to finish up the shard. Hope it goes smoothly so I can start worrying about the higher level stuff that you two are discussing. :)
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

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I'm not at the higher level (2) stuff yet. I should be over the weekend if the weather isn't too nice. If the weather is really good, I need to yard work but I'll still play on breaks.
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

LM, when you say "guards", what are you referring to? In terms of population mood in provinces, the Brethren of the Light are the best early-game guards that you can hire. They give you both + to province mood, and + to karma.

Baroquen,
Word of advice, early on don't spend your resources to carry over heroes. Early on you'll be competing for un-owned shards. Later you'll be attacking other Immortals. That's when you'll want your heroes. And you'll need all the resources you can save up. I try not to have a hero much above level 10. That's when you specialize; and where the big boost comes in. After that you are just expending resources that you likely don't need to. Last time I brought over a Scout and made sure to pick up a decent (but not too expensive) weapon. A Scout or Warrior without a weapon is fairly useless. I built up to Tier 3 weapons and then purchased one.

Also, I've started making a save right near the end of the scenario. Early on I wasn't always bringing over a hero (in order to save up the resources), but it sucks when another Immortal attacks your shard then. Being able to reload and export a hero is very helpful in that case.

Another thing, if you can, when fighting an opponent, try to shut off any source of wood, iron, or horses. That will drive up the cost of units. If you can bleed all their gold, then they won't be able to field much in the way of armies. i.e. It's the first fight that is hardest to win, when the enemy has the strongest units.

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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

Oh, one more thing. Well, two more things.

If you have the Alliances DLC, then try for an alliance. Dwarves and Lizardmen offer some superb T1 units. Centaurs have excellent T2 units.

Lizardmen are dirt cheap, come with swamp knowledge and regen, and have lots of health. Sometime after level 5 they may get the option to become either casters or better tanks.
Centaurs are solid ranged and melee, and come with additional mobility. They supposedly will also be able to specialize after level 7, but I have yet to have it happen.
I don't think Dwarves will specialize, but their engineers are significantly better than crossbowmen. All the way around.

Lacking the DLC or having trouble getting an alliance? Find a Mercenary Guild. You'll be able to pick up most of the above units. As well as some other ones (if you are going down the less-good road, you can nab a Fire Giant or two :o ). The only drawback to this is finding the guild. I've had several maps in a row where I never found one.

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Baroquen
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by Baroquen »

Lots of info I didn't know. Thanks!

So did I ruin this run by wasting the first batch of transferring resource? (Astral energy, or something, right?) I had a pool of 100 points after the first shard finished, and used it to kickstart shard two. But I don't know which situation will play out:

A) The game gives me a larger amount of points to start and I wasted them? or
B) The 100 points I used is no big deal compared to the totals later.

So in your opinions, do I need to back up, save those energy points and restart the second shard from scratch?
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

No. I assume, in theory, that you can win any shard without spending any. And you will get more. I would just recommend taking it easy. :)

I was over 1200. But now I'm tackling other leaders, I'm starting to burn through them. But it's tough to stop spending once you get in the habit. A level 10 Warrior with a decent, non-magical, 2H sword ran me ~175 energy. Which I believe is ~30 more than I make.

I believe you can actually opt to pass time in the astral. You'll accumulate the energy, I think. But your opponents will still keep doing their stuff. So it might be somewhat risky.

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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by LordMortis »

TheMix wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:46 pm LM, when you say "guards", what are you referring to? In terms of population mood in provinces, the Brethren of the Light are the best early-game guards that you can hire. They give you both + to province mood, and + to karma.
There is a guard called guard. It's a tier 1 guard I picked up early from the Lookout Tower. (Is it only in Genesis? Internet says... https://eador-masters-of-the-broken-wor ... iki/Guards It was renamed to the Warden in MotBW)
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

Ah. I use Wardens a lot. However, 1) they are harder to get (more expensive and require more upgrades to unlock), and 2) they don't give as much good karma as the Brethren.

What I tend to do is start out with Brethren. Then, after the @#!$ing Inquisitors start showing up, I replace the Brethren with Wardens (which generally happens when I retake a province from the Inquisition).

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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

To remember (at least what I've found):

+Mood & +Karma > +Mood > -Unrest / Bonuses

To be honest, I never pay much attention to the bonuses (+gold, +gems, etc). Though I probably should. Some of those are pretty substantial. And probably well worth it once a province is not at risk. Now I generally only run into a lot of unhappiness if I'm on an evil world and, therefore, at odds to the local populations (orcs, goblins, etc.).

For +karma and +mood, the two easiest and cheapest options are the Brethren and the Forest Spirits (for Forest provinces). Neither will last long if the province is targeted.

Once I engage opponents, I switch to stronger guards in the provinces that will be in contention. Assuming I have the gold.

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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

Another piece of advice that I learned way later than I should have...

Never explore a location when you discover it. Always select the continue option.

The main reason for this is that it's possible to discover multiple locations (or have additional non-location events). If you chose the explore option, you shut down that round of exploration. You may have only netted 1%. I've had my Scout discover 7 locations in one round.

Once you have an idea what's at a location, you can get a better idea of who you might want to send. (i.e. if you have quests)

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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by LordMortis »

TheMix wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:30 pm Another piece of advice that I learned way later than I should have...

Never explore a location when you discover it. Always select the continue option.

The main reason for this is that it's possible to discover multiple locations (or have additional non-location events). If you chose the explore option, you shut down that round of exploration. You may have only netted 1%. I've had my Scout discover 7 locations in one round.

Once you have an idea what's at a location, you can get a better idea of who you might want to send. (i.e. if you have quests)
Wait. What. I need to test that. Though I usually want to fight just to get loot anyway.
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

You can still loot. The location doesn't go away. You can go after it the next round if you want. But it maximizes your exploration percentage. If you explore the first thing that pops up, then you limit your options. Though I'm pretty sure that all the locations are set, so you will eventually find everything anyway. But I like to find the locations and then be able to see what's in them. If it looks nasty, it allows me to hold off without having wasted a turn.

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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by Baroquen »

Another good tip. Cool.

So is there any benefit to conquering more of a shard's map - if not necessary to finishing off the shard? Or just do what's necessary to win and move on?
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

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I'm not sure about that. It seems like you get to carry over part of the karma that you earn. So maybe, in theory, getting more karma will benefit. But generally I just get tired and want it over. :D

I tend to chill and try and develop until first contact. Then, if I'm ready, go on the offensive. But you generally need an army that you can be confident in. And usually I wait until I have plenty of gold.

But you are still early, so I'd say a decent gauge is whether you've made most of the important buildings. I currently have a couple of T4 buildings, so I probably won't be able to win until I've at least got my T3 buildings made and some troops leveled. But I probably won't need to wait to get the T4 troops.

Other than that, I don't think there is much reason to keep going. Except experience.

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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by NickAragua »

Thanks to forum effect, I picked this back up.

Still plowing through the first non-tutorial shard. It seems like picking the commander first isn't practical as you need a larger army, which means you need more gold. In the beginning, you don't get gold. So I wound up picking the scout and scrounging around my starting area - killing bandits for XP. Eventually, between exploring and random events, I was able to grind together enough gold to buy a massively improved bow and arrows, which let me snow ball and start killing units further out. The other thing that really helped was investing some money into a necromancer school. I'm technically going for positive karma, but being able to pop up skeletons and zombies to disrupt the enemy advance and let me take extra shots on them is worth the karma hit. Still don't get why people are so squeamish about it, they're on our side!

Now I'm fighting against the local lord who has this obnoxious warrior hero with a 12 point poison attack that takes my toughest units out in two hits. And his castle is defended by a crew of 11 or so "adventurers" which even my "double shot" hero can't take on (and that's just the province garrison, I don't even want to know what he has inside the castle). I guess my next goal will be to take out his surrounding territories first while I build up a second commander hero to throw at the walls and weaken the crowd. Hopefully the AI players at least pretend to obey the various rules about "having to have enough gold to buy new units" and paying maintenance.

Next time I have a scout reach level 10, I'm not picking the double shot, I'm picking the scout/commander so I can get more than two units in the army.
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

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Baroquen wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:57 pm So is there any benefit to conquering more of a shard's map - if not necessary to finishing off the shard? Or just do what's necessary to win and move on?
There are two reasons to prolong the game. 1 to work on Karma and 2 to try an increase your glory. Karma increases largely depend on your actions. I have read that 20% of your karma (good or bad) carries over to the next map. I'm not sure what good glory does. I've not see any effect and I haven't dug deep enough through google to learn other than it is affected by difficulty level. The playing for more glory by doing more of the glory gathering things will also be counteracted by the amount of time you spend on the map and I'm not sure or the dynamics there either.

I tend to hunt for glory, so I conquer every single shard and hunt for as many rares as I can and then finish a map. Some day I'll find out if all the extra time is meaningful. I will say I *do* enjoy beefing up my heroes and taking on the rare hoarding mobs to hoard rares of my own before hitting the reset button. But then, my way sees me still on tier 1 buildings while TheMix is already on tier 4. I'm OK with that for now.


https://www.gog.com/forum/eador_series/ ... _and_glory

Glory boosts
Tactician - no returns and no units lost
Strategist - no returns and no battles lost
Explorer - explore more than 1000% in provinces
Cartographer - open all provinces on a map
Architector - build all buildings in castle
Dragon Hunter - clear more than 10 guardians with dragons
Destroyer - looted more than 1000 gold from your own provinces
Collectioner - wear set of 4 or more items in one hero
You can also get Arena Champion - defeat Orca at the arena's Champion events
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

Huh. I never mess with glory. So that's what those titles are that show up after I win shard. I wondered. But not enough to look it up. :D

I do know that it can take a long time to beat a shard anyway. I can't imagine doing a full clear. Especially if that included exploring every province 100% and beating all the locations.
Next time I have a scout reach level 10, I'm not picking the double shot, I'm picking the scout/commander so I can get more than two units in the army.
It really depends on how you use the character. I would agree that the Scout can be rough. A pure Scout isn't ideal for fighting opponent armies (unless they are relatively small). However, there is no one that comes close for exploring. Having 5 levels of Scouting is phenomenal. And double-shot (with a good weapon) will make your Scout into a Dragon slayer. You do have to avoid any of the Titan/Phoenix/Hydra/etc fights though. Those have too many units for the Scout, generally, to overcome. But any fights with only a handful of targets becomes a breeze. More if they are slow moving (i.e. trolls), fewer if they are fast moving (i.e. manticores). I try to get a Scout moving fairly early to use for exploring. And once I have a decent weapon (and range, range is HUGE! - you need to be able to hit the target on the first turn). Once you get to T3 units, you'll find your Scout can survive a bit better. It may only be 2 of them, but it can make a huge difference.

Commanders can be the best late game hero. Especially if you want to take on the big fights (Titans, etc) or tackle the Arena. But army cost will definitely get you. You can mitigate that with the skill that reduces maintenance costs for the army. I mid-level Commander is great for porting to the next shard because the boosts to the units will help keep them alive.

Warriors, which I only really started using recently, are forces-of-nature once they get rolling. With the right gear (ideally you want a weapon with health return on kill/hit), the Warrior can just solo fights. That makes things a lot faster to explore since you don't have to do every fight. :D

Wizards, with the right skills, are hands-down the most powerful. However, not until you find/learn T3/T4 spells. They can be really hard to level. Like the Scout they have a small army. But they have even less armor and health. My personal favorite is a summoning focus. In my last shard, my Wizard was dropping a level ~10 Crystal Golem anywhere on the map. It could solo most fights without any help. If you plan on being there a long time (like LM), then definitely get one of them going. Spells that hit all the enemies, or boost all your units, can be extremely overpowered. Especially when you can cast 2 on the opening round. I was using White Magic and hitting every enemy for ~12-18 damage on the first round.

Leveling later heroes can be extremely tough. Word of advice, when you are initially exploring, as soon as you can, move to the 2nd ring of provinces. Try to leave as many weak locations available in the first ring as possible. And if you get easy ones in the second ring (like Undead that just have skeletons, zombies, and ghouls), leave them as well. You will need them for your second hero. For the third hero you may need to wait until you have defeated one other opponent. Then you can use the ring around that castle.

I rarely get a 4th hero going. Usually it's not worth dragging things out. Though I've started thinking about it if I want to carry a hero over to the next shard and all my current ones are higher level.

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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

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TheMix wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:38 am I do know that it can take a long time to beat a shard anyway. I can't imagine doing a full clear. Especially if that included exploring every province 100% and beating all the locations.
I take forever to clear a shard and that I do not do. I play similar to you but I lounge longer. I do a small ring grab and then explore/build out provinces until first contact. Then I go on the offensive and try to contain the enemies if I can. If I can't then I have to move to extermination. At that time I also try to set up grabbing every province is reasonable. I also try to exploit the hardest the spots I have a high probability of taking and collecting the rare equipment, ancients, cults, dragons, etc...



[quot]Leveling later heroes can be extremely tough. Word of advice, when you are initially exploring, as soon as you can, move to the 2nd ring of provinces. Try to leave as many weak locations available in the first ring as possible. And if you get easy ones in the second ring (like Undead that just have skeletons, zombies, and ghouls), leave them as well. You will need them for your second hero. For the third hero you may need to wait until you have defeated one other opponent. Then you can use the ring around that castle.[/quote]

This, though even as early as I am in the game the rings are starting to ramp up in difficulty. Ghouls are appearing in the first ring undead and levels are up a bit. I got caught with my pants down attacking lizards in my home shard and finding out my 8th level warrior couldn't solo them. :o
I rarely get a 4th hero going. Usually it's not worth dragging things out. Though I've started thinking about it if I want to carry a hero over to the next shard and all my current ones are higher level.
That seems to be a difference in Genesis to MotBW. I can't port heroes (yet?) I do get the 4th hero but I lounge more than you do. I also tend to move to the 4th hero before I finish building my home. At this juncture, my 4th is always the wizard but then the shard I am on now is my first 2nd tier spell school, so the wizard is relying 100% on what I find for casting.


My biggest advice is don't trust your heroes on their estimates. Good or bad. They have no idea what they are talking about. Start a shard overly cautious and then adapt your reactions to how well you are doing. As you advance shards, so to does the difficulty of all aspects of game, ramping up slowly and it can catch you unawares... or it can catch me unawares, anyway.
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

This, though even as early as I am in the game the rings are starting to ramp up in difficulty. Ghouls are appearing in the first ring undead and levels are up a bit. I got caught with my pants down attacking lizards in my home shard and finding out my 8th level warrior couldn't solo them. :o
Lizards? i.e. Lizardmen? That should be doable if there aren't a bunch of priests. The priests will chew you up. You'd need 60+ health at least; along with movement increases to get to them fast. That's going to be really tough with a Warrior that is that low. For big groups of targets, you really need to be higher 10+ and hopefully have picked up the round attack.

If you are throwing slugs (poison!) and/or basilisks (petrification!!) to the mix, then, yeah, you are screwed. Possibly if you have a full complement of decently leveled units (and 1-2 Bishops would be a must).

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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

My biggest advice is don't trust your heroes on their estimates. Good or bad. They have no idea what they are talking about. Start a shard overly cautious and then adapt your reactions to how well you are doing. As you advance shards, so to does the difficulty of all aspects of game, ramping up slowly and it can catch you unawares... or it can catch me unawares, anyway.
Definitely. Especially with higher level heroes.

Wizards - it never accounts for spells. Especially summonings. If you can summon some higher level units (golems are great against slugs, basilisks, and medusas because they are immune to petrification and poison), you'll be able to demolish fights that the game will tell you are impossible.

Warriors - you'll lose against poison, petrification, immobilization, and heavy ranged (unless your defense is really high). The game will tell you that you'll win easily. It lies.

Scout - it doesn't account for the double-shot. It'll tell you that you'll lose against small number of big targets (ogres, giants, dragons, trolls) because it doesn't account for your ability to take single targets out sometimes in one round.

Oh... and it is TERRIBLE about account for ghosts and vampires. NEVER believe what it tells you. A 10hp ghost will wipe your entire group if you don't have magic. They sport 40 physical defense. And they heal when they kill/damage (I can't recall which). And vampires have a lot of health and heal with every attack. So unless you can take them out with ranged (love the Scout double-shot), you can expect that they will heal back a significant portion of whatever damage you do when they counter-attack.

Also, standard "These comments apply to MotBW and may not be applicable to Genesis" disclaimer. :wink:

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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

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Lizards? i.e. Lizardmen?
Yes.
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

They can be tough. But a decently geared Warrior, even level 8, should be doable as long as there aren't priests.

Early on, I tend to prioritize Defense over Attack. I used to get HP/Regen, but recently read that it's generally pointless later on. So I skip it now. But since you are still on early shards with weaker mobs, it may be worth prioritizing that as well.

I think the biggest factor, however, is going to be your weapon. You will want something with as much counter-attack as possible. At that level, you'll only be attacking one at a time, but you may be getting attack by several. So defense plus high counter-attack will make survival easier.

And as you noted, it's often hard to know if you have the "right stuff" before tackling the fight.

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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by LordMortis »

TheMix wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:23 pm Early on, I tend to prioritize Defense over Attack. I used to get HP/Regen, but recently read that it's generally pointless later on. So I skip it now. But since you are still on early shards with weaker mobs, it may be worth prioritizing that as well.

I think the biggest factor, however, is going to be your weapon. You will want something with as much counter-attack as possible. At that level, you'll only be attacking one at a time, but you may be getting attack by several. So defense plus high counter-attack will make survival easier.

And as you noted, it's often hard to know if you have the "right stuff" before tackling the fight.
Interesting. I haven't read up on game strategy/theory and I do go HP/Regen first route. I like to get my warrior going and then keep him moving and attacking. Of course I don't think I've played long enough to be past the early parts of mid game. I like to outfit my warrior with the best first strike weapon I can get my hands on and after working up Regen, go to to round attack and then regular attack. I work up resistance if I am in a heavy swamp shard to reduce petrification and web. I tend to look for equipment to boost stamina and then run in headlong with first strike trying to gain kill advantage. It keeps the weak troops from nickel and diming me until I round attack.

Note: I play on Beginner.
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TheMix
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Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by TheMix »

The idea is that by the time your Warrior is in the late-teens and has ~100 HP, you'll be fighting things where a few points of regen isn't going to make a difference. Though it was mentioned that early on it may speed up healing between fights.

I start grabbing resistance when I'm going to be fighting mages. It helps reduce magic ranged attack damage. Which can chew through his health. Also, grab Astral Health as soon as possible. It can make a huge difference. Also, Haste is your friend.

Edit: Astral Energy. /sigh I even looked it up before responding.

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Zenn7
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Eador: Master of the Broken World (new 4X fantasy TBS)

Post by Zenn7 »

So you made me come back to this (MotBW is what I have, shard conquering i shall go).

For those of you playing this version, you should know that one of the end conditions (where you lose) kicks in around turn 90. Apparently, no warning. So you want to be done by then.

Guide also suggested you don't want to keep/move heroes from shard to shard until you have ~100 astral income/turn.
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