Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Isgrimnur »

I can't even find oil. Is there some trick to it?
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Paingod »

It's a rare-ish resource. You might find 8 Iron ore deposits for every 1 oil field. Check around the map for purple dots. Oil shows up in that color, like a little rash. Each patch of oil is just a black puddle on the ground.

If you don't see any, you may need to explore a bit.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Finally found one. Way far out. On the bright side, I did eliminate some biter nests on the grand tour.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by The Meal »

Yeah, initial proximity to oil may be the first thing a player who previews a map checks for (along with the spread of the initial ores and defendability of the starting location). Even with the default spawn, it's possible that it's inconveniently far away.

In the map I'm playing, which I haven't made nearly as much progress as I'd like this week due to things going on here at home, I've got a local 4-pumpjack mini oilfield, and then... well that'll be part of the fun of what I've got myself into.
Enlarge Image
Oil patch is due north of player location, at the top of that pseudo peninsula. Next oil? TBD. Fortunately oil never runs completely out, but it does end up just dribbling out once the initial stock is gone.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Paingod »

The Meal wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:20 amFortunately oil never runs completely out, but it does end up just dribbling out once the initial stock is gone.
Thankfully you can also throw Speed mods at it to bring it up as well, so the trickle becomes a dribble. I think every single one of my pumps across my map are fiercely churning out 2/s.

I finally finished my first grand expansion last night. Not in tech or construction, but simple free space without biters. There is only a tiny edge of one wall where my pollution spills over into Biters now, as opposed to previously when I was getting hammered from all sides.

I've discovered that my Nuclear plant that I invested so heavily in designing has a flaw - when it's fully tapped, the steam from my Storage tanks just can't stretch out to the outer-most Turbines. All the inner ones consume everything that flows by, and the output of the reactor drops from a potential 2.4GW to around 1.4GW. A big hit. I need to either lay down a second reactor stamp to ensure I never overtax the first one, or rebuild a new one with this design flaw in mind. I'm probably going to rebuild. I have enough components in my Logistics hub to cover the layout.

I'm up to 74 Launches. I'd be higher, but I ran out of Rocket Fuel. While I was spending an eternity clearing Biters, my oil processing plant ran into an issue with a train obstructing the tracks to the fuel depot. This created a shortage of oil products that eventually caused every facility to grind to a halt - either because I didn't have the oil products I needed, or because there was no demand for whatever they produced without other things calling for it. My entire base ground to a halt because of one little train. On the plus side, I have enough backed up Rocket Control Units to launch maybe 15 more rockets before I run out.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by LordMortis »

Are there any negative to using nuclear attacks? Nests are getting be a bit extreme and red rockets and lasers are starting to get a little weak, even with the spider enhancement.... an I'm still not ready for a railroad but maybe it's time when I do my next infrastructure expansion.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

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LordMortis wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:37 amAre there any negative to using nuclear attacks? Nests are getting be a bit extreme and red rockets and lasers are starting to get a little weak, even with the spider enhancement.... an I'm still not ready for a railroad but maybe it's time when I do my next infrastructure expansion.
I haven't tried one yet, but I've read (I think) that it permanently scars the terrain, like biter creep does right now. Aside from that - nothing I've heard of.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by LordMortis »

Upgraded to 1.1 and have some weirdness I don't care for like when I paste electric poles, they don't all connect.

Trying to learn rail stuff and it's way more complex than before so it's going slow.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

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LordMortis wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:30 pmTrying to learn rail stuff and it's way more complex than before so it's going slow.
Rails for me were simplified by using the advice I found online suggesting I make a loop. One big loop. Some people use two loops in tandem. This means traffic always travels in one direction and never backs up on itself. No matter how it twists and turns, every train travels the same direction. You need to build in the occasional option for trains to double-back, but that's pretty easy.

I tried to use the linked rail signals for a while, too, but after my third log jam I tore them all out and went back to standard signals everywhere. It's worked fine.

Rails, to me at least, are about finding a section that works - straight pair, corner pair, diagonal pair, loopback, intersection, loop end - and just stamping the heck out of those with blueprints. I keep every station named separately and manually assign which stations trains go to.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Butterknife »

Signaling for rails is easy if you follow the two rules:

1) Before an intersection, use a chain signal
2) After an intersection, use a regular signal

That’s it! Put rails wherever you want, just use those two rules and you’ll be training in no time. Oh yeah, rule #3 is “You will get hit by a train eventually”.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Butterknife wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:20 am Oh yeah, rule #3 is “You will get hit by a train eventually”.
I mean, there's an achievement for a reason.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by LordMortis »

Couldn't really get the layout and the space I set aside to experiment with wasn't nearly big enough. I'll get backing to my Train-ing later. So now I'm just claiming and clearing and concreting more area.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Butterknife »

The One Track is completed! Only took 90 hours. I'm definitely going to need a break from Factorio after this.

Image

As you can see, 2000 science/minute (all but military) and about 1900 satellites launched. The real question is was I able to bring in all the resources from one track? Yes!

Image

I was definitely approaching the limit of how much I could bring in on the track, but I was able to bring in all resources on one track. As you can see from the screenshot above, there is still room for the occasional train coming in or going out.
Of course, I could have smelted on site to double the amount of resources I was bringing in using the same trains, so I think you could push this particular build up to 4K by doing that.

So my theory before this build was that people were doing trains wrong by unloading too quickly and not building them big enough. Turns out I was half right (and I believe stessier predicted the other half). While making trains bigger definitely helps with rail congestion, unloading more slowly does not. So, I believe that you could push past 4K science/minute on one track by increasing your train size from the 4-8 trains I'm using. One unexpected benefit that I did see from unloading trains more slowly was how much less pressure there was on my train stacker -- it effectively increases the buffer at each unloading station so it doesn't matter if another train pulls up into the station immediately.

Here's a picture of the final base as a whole. This is definitely the biggest base I've ever built!

Image

And here's a few more pictures just for fun. This first picture is one of two modules making green circuits. I took the picture at night so it was easier to see the roboports recharging.

Image

And here's one of my copper usage. I actually use more iron, but it doesn't all come together into one spot like this so doesn't look as cool.

Image

Nuclear power stations. The base uses about 11 GW, but I built 14 GW below. 108 nuclear reactors total!

Image
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by naednek »

Paingod wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:57 am Inserters come in different flavors.

Reaching past the first belt next to a factory can be accomplished a few ways.
  • Use the Red inserter to easily reach the outer belt, but because it's not wildly fast you want to put your "lesser needed" products out there, like if something takes 10 Iron Plates, 10 Green Circuits, but only one Steel - put the Steel on the outer belt.
    .
That's where I'm having issues. How do I get items to be on different sides of the belt. they all seem to be on the same row.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by LordMortis »

naednek wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:03 pm
Paingod wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:57 am Inserters come in different flavors.

Reaching past the first belt next to a factory can be accomplished a few ways.
  • Use the Red inserter to easily reach the outer belt, but because it's not wildly fast you want to put your "lesser needed" products out there, like if something takes 10 Iron Plates, 10 Green Circuits, but only one Steel - put the Steel on the outer belt.
    .
That's where I'm having issues. How do I get items to be on different sides of the belt. they all seem to be on the same row.

Inserters always go to the far side. If you place the end from parallel going up, I want to say they always place to the right (it may be left. Pop one down and you'll see. It's consistent in every direction). If your setup is impractical for placing on the opposite end then break the chain and dump into the far end. If you are inserting on one side and what both, split the belt and then dump back into itself.

If I weren't so far away from home with no radars in my bus, I'd take some screen caps to show you.

Edit here is a sample of red circuit production that shows a variety a far inserting adapted to fit my needs.

Enlarge Image

You can see how plastic and green circuits dump to get a specific item on a specific side. You can see how I have to dump copper wire on two a feeder belt to get it on both sides of a belt.

Then I learned a pattern from Nailus to compress the inputs and outputs which then eventually dump on two side of a belt on my bus. It's as much about inserter management as it is about belt management.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Paingod »

naednek wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:03 pm
Paingod wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:57 am Inserters come in different flavors.

Reaching past the first belt next to a factory can be accomplished a few ways.
  • Use the Red inserter to easily reach the outer belt, but because it's not wildly fast you want to put your "lesser needed" products out there, like if something takes 10 Iron Plates, 10 Green Circuits, but only one Steel - put the Steel on the outer belt.
    .
That's where I'm having issues. How do I get items to be on different sides of the belt. they all seem to be on the same row.
Aside from LM's good advice, I also use in-belt lane switches. Basically, because a row of factories puts goods on just one side, I'll create a little gap halfway down where the first section of belt ends, but curves up into the second section of belt, which starts a space back. This creates not a curve, but a flat place where goods are pushed into the belt on the inside lane - and then inserters further down the line add product on the opposite side - so now both sides can be filled. Anytime I have a factory line where I'm making more than a belt can handle, I use this technique.

Code: Select all

Belt 2 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< vv<<<<<<<Belt 1
  (inserter)   ^^<<<<<<<   (inserter)
The big thing I accomplished over the weekend was a redesign of my 12-reactor config, which I think should help with steam not making it to every turbine. Instead of 4 massive arrays of tanks holding steam, I've got it broken up into several smaller arrays (8, I think) and these in turn feed into turbines at a more regular interval. I'm using a lot of pumps to ensure fluids are moving as fast as they can and not backwashing.

Then I started a redesign of my oil processing plant, which has become my new bottleneck. My current design is very inefficient and I can do better.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by The Meal »

Butterknife wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:20 am Signaling for rails is easy if you follow the two rules:

1) Before an intersection, use a chain signal
2) After an intersection, use a regular signal

That’s it! Put rails wherever you want, just use those two rules and you’ll be training in no time. Oh yeah, rule #3 is “You will get hit by a train eventually”.
Rule 2.5 is no placing a regular signal unless there's enough room afterwards (i.e., the size of gap to the next signal) to fit an entire train.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Paingod »

The Meal wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:15 am
Butterknife wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:20 am Signaling for rails is easy if you follow the two rules:

1) Before an intersection, use a chain signal
2) After an intersection, use a regular signal

That’s it! Put rails wherever you want, just use those two rules and you’ll be training in no time. Oh yeah, rule #3 is “You will get hit by a train eventually”.
Rule 2.5 is no placing a regular signal unless there's enough room afterwards (i.e., the size of gap to the next signal) to fit an entire train.
This is a good one. I've had to clear a couple log jams where my roundabouts had one train stuck trying to pass another, while that one was stuck trying to pass the first.

I suppose those intersections are the ideal place for chain signals.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by LordMortis »

Paingod wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:03 am

Code: Select all

Belt 2 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< vv<<<<<<<Belt 1
  (inserter)   ^^<<<<<<<   (inserter)

That's something to think about and maybe could have saved me some North/South room. I tend to mirror my entire chain. You way makes a lot more sense when an input isn't constrained by belt capacity.

I'm expanding territory to put off trying to figure out how I want to build out from my current bus which is currently at its copper capacity and hitting an end of the line copper mining.

I keep starting a new smelting area based on train transport and then disliking my start, so I go out and expand territory while my botnet lays more concrete and deforests areas, Dr Seuss villain style. I think I launch about 6 rockets an hour in a system that is impractical to expand further and that's OK for now. My current goal is strip enough land to create a playground. That may takes a long time and so far I'm OK with that.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Paingod »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:04 amI think I launch about 6 rockets an hour in a system that is impractical to expand further and that's OK for now. My current goal is strip enough land to create a playground. That may takes a long time and so far I'm OK with that.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by LordMortis »

Paingod wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:18 am
LordMortis wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:04 amI think I launch about 6 rockets an hour in a system that is impractical to expand further and that's OK for now. My current goal is strip enough land to create a playground. That may takes a long time and so far I'm OK with that.
Copy/Paste your entire factory and double your output!
I have not tried to C&P from zoom out. Maybe I should.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Paingod »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:37 pmI have not tried to C&P from zoom out. Maybe I should.
Can you do that from a satellite view? Anytime I've copied and something big, I stood at one corner and then did the CTRL+C, clicked, and ran down to the opposite corner where I let go of the mouse. Then I open the blueprint and clean up any elements I don't want duplicated (sections of other production lines, for example).
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Paingod »

This happen to anyone else?

You've spent so much time building, that when you go back and look at something you crafted by hand ages ago, you're left wondering who on earth made such a mess of things... ? I've wandered my factory for ages now it seems, and I find that when I wander into a part I rarely look at (because it's just working and doesn't need tuning) I find myself feeling like a bit of a stranger there. I know I laid every bit of track, but the sheer scope of everything put together makes it seem like it couldn't have been me that did it all.

It's an unusual sensation.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Blackhawk »

He's starting to remember. He'll need another dose.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Tankity tank, motherbreeders!
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by stessier »

Version 1.1 has been released and Wube released their plans for the future on the blog.
The future
So, what are we going to do? There are several possibilities. Retiring is not really an option for several reasons, not going insane being one of them. There are some smaller experiments outside the Factorio realm that we want to do, but apart from that, we still want to extend the game. There is a large pool of ideas, so all we have to do is to just pick from the most potent ones. But the question is: How to package them?

There are basically 4 options:
  • Free updates forever
  • Factorio 2
  • Small DLC packs
  • One big expansion pack
Free updates forever
A lot of games do it, notably Minecraft and Terraria. They do really well, so the model works, but I believe that it is not the best way to go for us, as we are a little bit more of a niche game with a smaller but more dedicated audience. This means that the room for expansion in the sense of getting more players is limited.

Factorio 2
The problem with a sequel is that it is expected to be very different in many ways, and technically a different game (Starcraft 1→2). Sequels that mainly just extend the content, but reuse most of the stuff from the previous installment were common in oldschool games (Baldur's gate 1→2, Fallout 1→2, Doom 1→2), but I'm afraid that this is not the expectation today.

The point is, that making a 'New Factorio' is exact opposite of what we want to do. Finally, the base game is in a state that we are happy with, things like Graphics, tutorials, engine, multiplayer etc. Specifically we spent most of the effort in the last year on finalising the GUI, and the last thing we want to do is to throw it all away for the sake of changing stuff.

Small DLC packs
Personally, as a player, I'm not big fan of a lot of small DLC packs. It gets cluttered, it gets harder to keep track of what I have, what features is in which pack, and what do I need to buy in order to play with a friend etc. Not even mentioning the developer pain of having small independent chunks of content that need to be compatible and balanced in every possible combination.

One big expansion pack
This seems to fit the best. We could focus purely on extending what we have and make new content, which we want to do so dearly! It would be one well-defined product that would be significant enough to recapture peoples attention, and it would be compatible with our workflow. Technically, it would be "just" a new version of the game, so all the infrastructure of mods being updated, multiplayer etc. would just work the same as it worked until now.

So, Expansion pack it is!

This immediately creates two main questions: What will it contain and when is it coming.

What? It is way too early to show any of the plans, and since we want to keep the iterative process of expanding things that prove to be the most fun, the plan is quite loose anyway.
When? All I can say is, that we are starting work on it now, and we don't think that it will take less than a year to develop. I'm personally very curious how the theory of getting more efficient once the engine is solid will hold.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Paingod »

I want Factorio in SPAAAAAACE.

No idea how that works, though. The game's about as good as it can get for what it is. I have a hard time imagining what more you can add to it without breaking the magical balance it has achieved.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by LordMortis »

stessier wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:48 am Version 1.1 has been released and Wube released their plans for the future on the blog.
The future
So, what are we going to do? There are several possibilities. Retiring is not really an option for several reasons, not going insane being one of them. There are some smaller experiments outside the Factorio realm that we want to do, but apart from that, we still want to extend the game. There is a large pool of ideas, so all we have to do is to just pick from the most potent ones. But the question is: How to package them?

There are basically 4 options:
  • Free updates forever
  • Factorio 2
  • Small DLC packs
  • One big expansion pack
Free updates forever
A lot of games do it, notably Minecraft and Terraria. They do really well, so the model works, but I believe that it is not the best way to go for us, as we are a little bit more of a niche game with a smaller but more dedicated audience. This means that the room for expansion in the sense of getting more players is limited.

Factorio 2
The problem with a sequel is that it is expected to be very different in many ways, and technically a different game (Starcraft 1→2). Sequels that mainly just extend the content, but reuse most of the stuff from the previous installment were common in oldschool games (Baldur's gate 1→2, Fallout 1→2, Doom 1→2), but I'm afraid that this is not the expectation today.

The point is, that making a 'New Factorio' is exact opposite of what we want to do. Finally, the base game is in a state that we are happy with, things like Graphics, tutorials, engine, multiplayer etc. Specifically we spent most of the effort in the last year on finalising the GUI, and the last thing we want to do is to throw it all away for the sake of changing stuff.

Small DLC packs
Personally, as a player, I'm not big fan of a lot of small DLC packs. It gets cluttered, it gets harder to keep track of what I have, what features is in which pack, and what do I need to buy in order to play with a friend etc. Not even mentioning the developer pain of having small independent chunks of content that need to be compatible and balanced in every possible combination.

One big expansion pack
This seems to fit the best. We could focus purely on extending what we have and make new content, which we want to do so dearly! It would be one well-defined product that would be significant enough to recapture peoples attention, and it would be compatible with our workflow. Technically, it would be "just" a new version of the game, so all the infrastructure of mods being updated, multiplayer etc. would just work the same as it worked until now.

So, Expansion pack it is!

This immediately creates two main questions: What will it contain and when is it coming.

What? It is way too early to show any of the plans, and since we want to keep the iterative process of expanding things that prove to be the most fun, the plan is quite loose anyway.
When? All I can say is, that we are starting work on it now, and we don't think that it will take less than a year to develop. I'm personally very curious how the theory of getting more efficient once the engine is solid will hold.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Lorini »

Paingod wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:17 am I want Factorio in SPAAAAAACE.

No idea how that works, though. The game's about as good as it can get for what it is. I have a hard time imagining what more you can add to it without breaking the magical balance it has achieved.
Dyson Space Program is what you are looking for.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by The Meal »

Tuplex's Space Exploration series (focused around a Factorio mod of the same name, and a family of other recommended mods) looks like _a lot_ of fun. The Satisfactory style of game for Dyson Sphere is not the same thing as Factorio, and while I immensely enjoyed FortressCraft: Evolved, it was mostly the exploration and tower defense aspects of that game that did it for me.

Maybe I come around on the Satisfactory style games, but I've watched some Lets Plays and they do not appeal.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Apollo »

The Meal wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:49 pm Tuplex's Space Exploration series (focused around a Factorio mod of the same name, and a family of other recommended mods) looks like _a lot_ of fun. The Satisfactory style of game for Dyson Sphere is not the same thing as Factorio, and while I immensely enjoyed FortressCraft: Evolved, it was mostly the exploration and tower defense aspects of that game that did it for me.

Maybe I come around on the Satisfactory style games, but I've watched some Lets Plays and they do not appeal.
I'm very new to these games and I thought that they were very similar. What is it that you dislike about about Satisfactory and Dyson Sphere Program?
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Tampa_Gamer »

Apollo wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:57 pm
The Meal wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:49 pm Tuplex's Space Exploration series (focused around a Factorio mod of the same name, and a family of other recommended mods) looks like _a lot_ of fun. The Satisfactory style of game for Dyson Sphere is not the same thing as Factorio, and while I immensely enjoyed FortressCraft: Evolved, it was mostly the exploration and tower defense aspects of that game that did it for me.

Maybe I come around on the Satisfactory style games, but I've watched some Lets Plays and they do not appeal.
I'm very new to these games and I thought that they were very similar. What is it that you dislike about about Satisfactory and Dyson Sphere Program?
IMHO, I have Satisfactory and Dyson and they are both enjoyable, its just that my tastes lean more to a game that provides a bit of reason/pressure to move forward or accomplish more efficiency, etc. In Factorio you have the biters applying pressure which I like. In Fortress Craft Evolved (another 3D builder like Factorio but older), you have the planet's wildlife threatening you to some extent. In Oxygen Not Included (sort of a builder/survival) you always have a reason to keep expanding/building). I just don't feel that same "reason" for Satisfactory or Dyson - but I respect the developer's intent.
Last edited by Tampa_Gamer on Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by The Meal »

Hard for me to be "fair" to those games (I haven't played them; only watched others do so), but I don't see how Satisfactory's the first-person play style adds to the game (and some of the stylish stuff associated with research is a bit of a turn-off to me as well). I liked FortressCraft: Evolved which is a "first person Factorio" but that game had awesome exploration and tower defense elements.

I haven't watched more than the opening 60 minutes of Dyson Sphere, so I'm fully unqualified to hold a strong opinion. But from what I saw, the free-form GUI (as opposed to dropping tiles directly into a Cartesian grid that never readjusts to how things appear on your screen) would seem to annoy me. Maybe cooler elements appear later in the game that make up for what seems to be a meaningful design decision. Lots of gamers whose tastes match mine seem to be enamored with the game. But I do know what sorts of things frustrate me. That said, I'm open to my comparison of Satisfactory and Dyson Sphere being invalid, and that I shouldn't tarnish the second due to the apparent shortcomings of the first.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Paingod »

Tampa_Gamer wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:58 amI have Satisfactory and Dyson and they are both enjoyable, its just that my tastes lean more to a game that provides a bit of reason/pressure to move forward or accomplish more efficiency, etc.
That tells me as much as I think I need to know. If an open world/sandbox/building game lacks any kind of pressure, I end up getting bored with it once I hit a certain point of self-sufficiency. It's happened over and over. I've yet to get bored with Factorio. I just keep being impressed by how my factory gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and each stage has a purpose.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Lorini »

Paingod wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:09 am
Tampa_Gamer wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:58 amI have Satisfactory and Dyson and they are both enjoyable, its just that my tastes lean more to a game that provides a bit of reason/pressure to move forward or accomplish more efficiency, etc.
That tells me as much as I think I need to know. If an open world/sandbox/building game lacks any kind of pressure, I end up getting bored with it once I hit a certain point of self-sufficiency. It's happened over and over. I've yet to get bored with Factorio. I just keep being impressed by how my factory gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and each stage has a purpose.
Well since in Satisfactory much of the resources that you need and the alternate recipes that you want are behind very strong enemies I would disagree. It's not as obvious as Factorio's biters, especially the need to explore to find the alternate recipes, but the enemies, especially the alpha ones will happily f you up in Satisfactory.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by coopasonic »

Lorini wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:52 am
Paingod wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:09 am
Tampa_Gamer wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:58 amI have Satisfactory and Dyson and they are both enjoyable, its just that my tastes lean more to a game that provides a bit of reason/pressure to move forward or accomplish more efficiency, etc.
That tells me as much as I think I need to know. If an open world/sandbox/building game lacks any kind of pressure, I end up getting bored with it once I hit a certain point of self-sufficiency. It's happened over and over. I've yet to get bored with Factorio. I just keep being impressed by how my factory gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and each stage has a purpose.
Well since in Satisfactory much of the resources that you need and the alternate recipes that you want are behind very strong enemies I would disagree. It's not as obvious as Factorio's biters, especially the need to explore to find the alternate recipes, but the enemies, especially the alpha ones will happily f you up in Satisfactory.
The flip side of that is that in Satisfactory we often leave the game running overnight to build up resources because there is literally no risk when you are in your base. Animals don't attack any part of your factory and there aren't any automated defenses because there isn't any need.
The Meal wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:59 am Hard for me to be "fair" to those games (I haven't played them; only watched others do so), but I don't see how Satisfactory's the first-person play style adds to the game (and some of the stylish stuff associated with research is a bit of a turn-off to me as well). I liked FortressCraft: Evolved which is a "first person Factorio" but that game had awesome exploration and tower defense elements.

I haven't watched more than the opening 60 minutes of Dyson Sphere, so I'm fully unqualified to hold a strong opinion. But from what I saw, the free-form GUI (as opposed to dropping tiles directly into a Cartesian grid that never readjusts to how things appear on your screen) would seem to annoy me. Maybe cooler elements appear later in the game that make up for what seems to be a meaningful design decision. Lots of gamers whose tastes match mine seem to be enamored with the game. But I do know what sorts of things frustrate me. That said, I'm open to my comparison of Satisfactory and Dyson Sphere being invalid, and that I shouldn't tarnish the second due to the apparent shortcomings of the first.
The first person 3d of satisfactory is all about the exploration aspect as verticality is as big part of the game including for your factories. It just gives you another dimension to explore and utilize. I'd say Factorio is absolutely the king of factory games, Satisfactory just gives you a different look that make it more of a crossover with a survival game like Raft, ARK, The Forest, etc. As a fan of both factory games and survival games it's a really nice fit for me.

I don't have any experience with Dyson Sphere Program yet. It looks much closer to Factorio than Satisfactory to me. The multiple planet, sketchy grid and needing to fuel your avatar just change up the challenge.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Made the jump to purple research, and have a few more techs I can perform. The mental cliff to even attempt yellow is daunting, as I have not yet made any of the components yet.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Paingod »

Each phase of the game comes at you as daunting, but once you overcome it and can literally stamp out and make multiples more of whatever was daunting before, it's pretty rewarding.

I needed more red chips. I copied my entire red chip fabrication stop and stamped it down at another point in my rail line. Bring in the bots and a chest of parts, and it's done minutes later. With the changes to trains in 1.1, I won't even need to worry about renaming or reorganizing the trains to use the stops.
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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Lorini »

I'll just leave this here.

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Re: Factorio, highly addictive game(alpha)

Post by Paingod »

I don't have time to delve into the whole history of Reddit and what's been said, but skimmed the first parts of the "trigger" event for this post and I can see where Kovarex is coming from.

He was unaware of someone's background, but liked a video they made. Someone told him that person was offensive to (parties). The next juncture is where so many people get derailed. Your options seem to be, in order of "Cancel Culture" appropriateness:
  1. Acquiesce and apologize without doing any research, assuming that whatever someone found offensive was enough to accept it as such
  2. Spend time and energy digging into whether or not you want to stand behind something or someone
  3. Ignore it
  4. Express your unwillingness to engage
  5. Get actively hostile about it
In some circles, you're a bastard if you don't go with one of the first two. Depending on your community standing, the third option may not even be an option. The last two are begging for continued fights. He stupidly went with Option 4 and once he felt attacked, dug in hard with a pivot to Option 5 - a very natural reaction if you've been given the basic human emotions package. I have trouble being upset with people who haven't dedicated themselves to trying to keep up with the politically correct advances we've rocketed through in the last ~10 years. Given the vast sum of human experience and ways to offend people, it's possible to become paralyzed by attempting the first two.

I think everyone has opinions and feelings on how much energy they're willing to dedicate to actively avoid offending anyone. My own threshold is pretty low. I'm all for trans rights, racial harmony, black lives mattering, kids being kids without forced gender stereotypes, etc. I don't personally have the energy to research and dig into everyone I bump into and just won't do it. If that makes me an asshole, I'm okay with being an asshole. I have the luxury of not mattering to anyone anywhere. Even though I'm an asshole, I'll continue to vote for progressive changes that favor all the things I'm all for.

So I kind of see where he started on this one. I agree, though, that he went too far.

I won't be demanding Steam refund my Factorio purchase or anything. The dude isn't out at KKK rallies or standing outside soldier's funerals holding a "God Hates F*gs" sign. He reacted poorly to someone trying to rub his nose in something he didn't feel like digging into and that exploded like a stick of dynamite in his hand. What gets me is when someone understands their reaction was maybe not great and they try to recover and people grill them for that, too. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, damned if you try to fix it, damned if you try to move past it.
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