[VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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Blackhawk
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[VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

Post by Blackhawk »

I really went back and forth on this as to whether to post it here as a [VR] thread, in the fitness thread, or in EBG as a separate thread. I figured that this forum could use the extra traffic, though, so I put it here.

So, if you've read my other threads, you'll know that three things happened to me in quick succession that all built off of and supported each other: I started a new medication that solved some problems that were really holding me back (related to lethargy, motivation, and distraction), I was given a VR headset, and started workout out again after almost a year off. I posted in the general fitness thread about the regular exercises I've been doing (regular cardio 4x/week, strength 2x/week), but only briefly mentioned VR, despite it being a significant portion of the exercise I've been getting lately. I wanted to touch on that more and give others a place to share (and get ideas.)

First off, VR can absolutely be a workout. At the simplest level, most VR involves standing and reaching. For people who sit all day, that's a huge step up in and of itself. It's not enough to replace exercise, but it's an improvement. The Virtual Reality Institute of Health was founded by a VR proponent and two PhDs (exercise physiology and human bioenergetics) specifically to study gaming and health using science rather than health sensationalism. They have detailed ratings for a multitude of VR games complete with methodology, and they offer an [exercise tracker app[/URL] on Android and Apple that syncs with standard fitness trackers (FitBit has a proprietary data format that doesn't like to share.)

The great thing about VR is that it is still a game. You're being challenged, there are bright colors, fun sounds, usually music, controllers, targets, the whole nine yards. It's fun to do. And when it is fun, it's easier to continue or to make yourself get up and do it. Getting 150 minute a week of moderate intensity exercise can be challenging when it means you have to sit in one place moving your feet back and forth for 30 minutes a day, but when you get to play a game for 30 minutes a day? You'll end up blowing past your goals.

The disclaimer: Like any exercise, you get out what you put in. You can take a bike and really push yourself, minding your posture, riding hills, and so forth. Or you can take that same bike ride like grandpa going down to the corner store for a loaf of bread. I remember when Wii Sports came out. It had a bowling game. We used to stand up and 'bowl' with the controllers, and it was a lot of fun. Then Michelle's dad came over and realized that all you had to do was sit on the couch and twitch your wrist. Guess how the kids played after that? A lot of VR games that provide good exercise can be cheesed like a Wii game, minimizing your movement rather than going with the flow. Here's an example (sticking this in spoiler tags to keep the page clean - no actual spoilers.)
Spoiler:
Beat Saber is probably the most popular VR game that has a strong physical component. One popular way to play beat saber is called 'T-rexing' because instead of moving around and swinging your arms to cut notes, you stand in one spot, your elbows at your side, and twitch your forearms around like a T-rex on speed. It's popular because it's efficient, fast, and doesn't leave you as drained as playing it with full movements. If your goal is to top the leaderboards, it's actually beneficial. These players also tend to only move their heads rather than stepping around to avoid obstacles or to get to notes.

Here's an example, in this case a player using stuffed animals under his arms as a training aid to practice T-rexing style Beat Saber:



Now, compare that to someone playing the same game, on an easier map, but using full motions:



Like I said, when it comes to exercise, you get out what you put in. If you play games with as little movement as possible, you may get better scores, but you won't get much out of it (and it's honestly not as much fun!)
So, anyway, here are the games I've been playing specifically for exercise and my experiences with them. The examples I'll give will be of people playing them with full movements. Links will be to the VR Institute page. All three of the ones I've played have the same rating: Tennis equivalent, burning 6-8 calories per minute for a 175 pound person That comes out to about 12/minute for a 250 pound person (more for me :oops:) , or 360 calories in a half-hour. That's significant.

First, Beat Saber. It's a hugely popular game that is essentially like standing inside Guitar Hero and hitting the notes with light sabers. You have two colored sabers and two colored notes, and you have to match the colors, plus you have to cut in the direction of an arrow on the notes for it to count. Score is based on how far you move the sabers and how close to the center your cuts are, plus how long you've gone without making a mistake (a miss, cutting the wrong direction, having a wall hit you (sabers can hit the wall.)

My personal experience: This game is probably the easiest to play of the three, as far as physical impact goes. I don't have any way to actively track my heart rate while playing yet, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that it elevates my heart enough to be well withing the 'moderate intensity' category of exercise. Not only that, but you're moving your arms all over the place constantly. Left, right, high, low, quickly. After playing for a while I can feel the ache in my arms. After playing a couple of months I could very easily increases in muscle in my shoulders, and my range of motion on the left shoulder had increases noticeably (remember, it's partially paralyzed.) It's a blast to play, and getting in 30 minutes isn't even pushing it for me anymore (I did an hour the other day before I ran out of endurance in my arms.) I really, really enjoy this game, and I'm not someone who has enjoyed rhythm games in the past. Part of that is because it isn't entirely a rhythm game. The next game on the list really is - it requires you to time your strikes to the sound. This is a sword game where the targets just happen to be synchronized to the music. You hit them when they're in range, which is always in sync with the song.

Beat Saber on PC also allows you to import custom made songs/maps, and there are some that are specifically made for workouts. Here's an example of a woman play a workout level included with the game, FitBeat (note that she's playing on hard or expert here.) Also, she has her walls set to transparent, which many streamers do. And every time there is a horizontal wall she's essentially having to do a full squat while keeping up with the notes:



Next up: Pistol Whip. Pistol Whip combines elements of first person shooters with elements of rhythm games, if first person shooters and rhythm games were made by John Woo. Instead of standing still and having stuff moving toward you, you move automatically (like those old arcade shooters) and enemies come out from above or to the sides. Those enemies are typically armed enemy agents. It's got a very, very generous auto-aim. If you're pointing in the general direction of your target, you'll hit it, and most enemies go down in one shot. If you don't shoot them in time, they shoot at you. Their bullets are slow and visible, and you have to physically dodge out of their way, which adds a ton of movement. You have health, and you have armor. Get hit, lose your armor. Get hit again, it's over. But if you lose your armor, shooting a certain number of enemies will replace it, and if an enemy is close enough, smacking them (er, pistol whipping them) is a guaranteed instant kill and immediately replaces your armor. Then add in enemies that require multiple shots and barriers you have to dodge. Custom songs are not supported. You can swap out the built-in songs by messing with the files, but

Scoring is based on two things: accuracy and timing. Like I said, the auto aim is incredibly generous when it comes to getting the kill, but scoring is based on your actual accuracy. How many points you get depends on how much the aim assist had to help. Full points requires that you would have actually hit the target. Timing is hitting the enemy on the beat. Think of it as if your gun is part of the rhythm section of the band. Unlike Beat Saber, keeping the time is in your hands.

(Tip - while in the lobby, pick a spot on the wall and pull the gun up to aim quickly without thinking about it. Now look at the actual sights. If they were too low or too high, go into the options and adjust the gun tilt until your quick aiming matches the gun's sights. For experienced shooters this is caused by the fact that a controller doesn't have quite the same angle as a gun's grip, which can throw you off.)

My personal experience: This game also rates as tennis, but it's a much more intense workout for me. It's tough, physically, due to all the dodging and movement. Where Beat Saber usually has you paying attention to a point on the horizon and letting muscle memory handle hitting the targets, Pistol Whip puts your head on a swivel and makes you work for your hits, and makes you move around at the same time. It's more visceral and immediate, and messing up penalizes you faster. I do find it a little harder to find the beat in the songs, as the musical style doesn't focus so much on the beat the way Beat Saber does. Luckily, the game helps you out by having the enemies 'pulse' white with the beat.

/edit - I found a video I liked better. The original video I had here I moved to the spoiler tags.


Spoiler:
Next: PowerBeatsVR. The last two were rhythm games that involved a lot of movement. This one is built from the ground up as an exercise game that involves rhythm game elements. Like Beat Saber, it's more about the notes are synchronized to the beat and you just have to hit them when they're in range. This isn't a sword or a gun game (although there are 'weapon' modes later that I haven't gotten into.) It's a hands game. You'll come across a variety of target types: single notes that you punch with one hand or the other. Double notes that you punch with both hands simultaneously. Notes that are extra tough that won't break unless you hit them full-on (no cheesing with love taps here!) Lines of notes that you have to 'chop' through. Streams that you have to hold your hands in. Spikey balls you have to dodge. Walls you have to dodge. Walls all the way across the path with a single small door you have to move into. It's got multiple environments (space, medieval, Egyptian, and the clouds) and lots of songs, plus the ability to import song files into the game and have it create custom levels out of them automatically (plus a regular editor.)

It really is designed for fitness. The score screen doesn't just list your hits, misses, and combos like Beat Saber, or your accuracy and timing, like Pistol Whip. It lists that stuff, but it also lists your perfect hits, your hit speed, and how many squats it made you do during the level (sadistic bastard.) It even allows you to hook up a heart rate monitor to your PC, input your sex, height, and weight, and then tells you exactly how many calories you've burned doing all those high speed precision squats. Scoring is what you'd expect - you get points for hitting balls, keeping your hands in the streams, and bonus points for building combos of consecutive hits which resets on misses. But you also get a bonus for how much you physically moved around your space, and bonuses on every target for the strength of the hits (determined by how fast your hand was moving when it impacted the target.) It also tracks your hands when you're dodging barriers to prevent you from just leaning slightly. You have to actually get out of the way. You can't cheese this one.

Personal experience: This game kicks my ass. It is fun, but wow, it really is intense. While Beat Saber gives me an arm endurance workout and some lower body/core work from the occasional barrier I have to go under, and where Pistol Whip has me moving your entire body dynamically, this game really pushes everything. You're squatting, dodging, moving, and throwing hard, fast punches constantly. It leaves me hot, gasping, and drenched in sweat, with every part of my body feeling like a wet noodle. In other words, it's a great workout. I've fiddled with the custom song function and didn't get great results, but that was my fault. I had just started playing, and my selection of songs wasn't ideal for this type of game. They were too slow and didn't have much of an emphasis on beat, which meant that the targets were having to come faster than the beats, which threw it off. From what I saw, though, the right songs should give good results.

Note: I tried to find a mixed reality video for this (where you see the person in the level), but there weren't many that weren't trailers. This one has the actual human in the corner, but you can still see how he has to move to finish the level.



Last one, and this is more of a place holder. Synth Riders I own this, but have yet to play it (I think I'll remedy that this afternoon.) The VR Fitness Institute places this one at "elliptical equivalent", which is one step below the others at 4-6 calories per minute (8/minute at 250 pounds, so 240 calories per half hour.) From what I've gathered, it's like a cross between Beat Saber's use of using each hand for different notes and PowerBeatsVR's mixture of targets and streams, but it's more about moving around to get the notes, accuracy, and speed than it is about power. You just need to get your hands in the right spots rather than cutting or punching (although I think there's a punching mode, but it's not popular.) By reputation, it plays more like a guided dancing game than any of the others, and is a bit lighter of a workout, which would be nice for when I'm not in the mood to be drenched and sore, or when I've been sitting for a while and just want to get up and move around a little.

And, hey, look! A mixed reality video that isn't a woman in tight clothes (you'd be surprised at how hard those are to find.)



And, even better, they have an elctro-swing pack!



I think I'll try this out, excuse me...
Last edited by Blackhawk on Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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As a quick side note, if you're using VR for workouts, I'd suggest considering the following, coming from someone who's only ever used a Rift-S (IE - I only know Rift-S products, so you may have to research equivalents for your system. I don't have all of this stuff, but it's on my list, and being able to invest in my gaming and my health simultaneously is an easily justified expense.

A cotton face cover. here's the one I use. It comes with two so that they can be swapped out for washing.

Non-foam head pads (the foam ones on the Rift-S are like sponges, and end up soaked - ew.) Here's the one I'm planning to get. Note that I'm talking about the pads for inside the headstrap, not the face mask piece.

Some sort of grip/strap that holds the controller to your hand and provides good grip. Your hands will get sweaty, they will get slippery, and you'll be making a lot of fast motions. The safety strap may save your TV, but it won't make them stay in your hands. I use this.

I'd also suggest some sort of location indicator (like a rug/anti-fatigue mat/yoga mat cut down) that lets you feel with your feet where you are in the room. They make some specifically for VR with direction indicators, but there are plenty of other options. Some wire management so you don't have to worry about tripping if you're tethered. And also a big ass fan sitting right in front of you pointed at your face. It keeps you cool, gives you a sense of direction, and helps prevent fogging. I've also found that a cheap sweatband worn under the rig makes for a much more pleasant experience. )
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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Last one, and this is more of a place holder. Synth Riders I own this, but have yet to play it (I think I'll remedy that this afternoon.) The VR Fitness Institute places this one at "elliptical equivalent", which is one step below the others at 4-6 calories per minute (8/minute at 250 pounds, so 240 calories per half hour.) From what I've gathered, it's like a cross between Beat Saber's use of using each hand for different notes and PowerBeatsVR's mixture of targets and streams, but it's more about moving around to get the notes, accuracy, and speed than it is about power. You just need to get your hands in the right spots rather than cutting or punching (although I think there's a punching mode, but it's not popular.) By reputation, it plays more like a guided dancing game than any of the others, and is a bit lighter of a workout, which would be nice for when I'm not in the mood to be drenched and sore, or when I've been sitting for a while and just want to get up and move around a little.
I've since put some time in with Synth Riders, and can give a more informed view of it, although I wasn't entirely off before.
When in-game there are two things you'll see. Notes, which are are spheres, and streams, which are like twisting rails. They come in two main colors, a left hand, and a right hand color (I have mine set to red and white.) Your hands are large spheres. Notes you simply have to touch with your sphere/hand. Streams you have to keep your hand in as they twist. In addition there are two other types of special notes/streams. Green means that you can hit it with either hand, but for the duration of that section you have to stick with that same hand. Yellow means that you have to hold your hands together and hit it with both. That's it. Scoring works by how long it's been since you missed and by how accurate you were (how well centered the note/stream was to the sphere in your hand.) There is a 'Force' mode that requires larger movements ( you have to punch or slap the blocks), but that isn't really the game's strength.

I also really liked the way they handled the included music/music pack DLC. Every music pack gives you about half of the songs in that pack for free just for owning the base game. Buying the DLC unlocks the second half of the pack. . And it comes with a great variety of music. Pistol Whip gives you a sort of techno-noir sound. Beat Saber is almost all EDM (electronic dance music.) This comes with it's default set (a variety I'm not sure how to classify), a punk/rock set, a 'cyberpunk' set (themed EDM), two *synthwave sets, and an **elctro-swing set (my favorite!) It also has native support for custom music, and there is a site with hundreds of songs.

*(Synthwave is a modern style that recreates the 80s sci-fi style from stuff like Blade Runner. An example would be the Stranger Things theme, or most of the Drive soundtrack.)
**(Electro-swing is a modern take on swing music, either original or remixed originals, combining it with electronic elements. A well known example.)

My experience: Wow, I like this one! I loaded it up last night, intending to spend a half an hour or so moving around before settling down to some TV. Instead, I ended up playing for an hour and 45 minutes. I'd already worked out yesterday morning. Because of how fun this thing is, I ended up getting an entire week's recommended exercise in one day. Today I feel like I've been run over by a truck. And I'm trying to make myself not get up and play for another hour.
I like Pistol Whip and PowerBeatsVR, but while they're better workouts, they're not as much fun as Beat Saber. This is. They're vying for that top spot. Let me approach this by contrasting the two, given how popular Beat Saber is. I think the simplest way to put it is that Beat Saber is about gameplay that uses music to frame what you're doing, while Synth Riders is about music around which gameplay has been built.
Beat Saber has a big emphasis on muscle memory. Once you get decent, you see the block way out there on the horizon and your brain sort of 'queues' the notes up for your arms to take care of on their own. It's about learning the patterns (up-down-up-down-up, double left-flip-double right, cut in then out, etc. Synth Riders is more about flow and moving with the rhythm of the song. Once you 'feel' the rhythm (as you would when tapping your toe to a song), you just move with that rhythm and all the notes/streams just sort of line up.

Beat Saber's walls serve as challenges to make you try to manage your cuts while dodging. Synth Rider's are there to get you moving your entire body, dancing left and right with the timing of the song.

Beat Saber gives you a lot of mechanics to keep track of. You have to pay attention to the pattern of the notes, the colors, the direction of the multiple simultaneous cuts in roughly 8 different directions, making sure your cuts are perfectly centered, making sure that your cutting angle is at least 100 degrees of movement prior to the cut and 60 degrees after the cut to get full credit for it. Your concentration is on the mechanics. Synth Riders just has you making sure you hit the notes and center them in your hand spheres. That's it. But to get to the notes without struggling you need to be moving with the music, but that's the point. Since you have less to keep track of, it frees your mind to think about the music in addition to the mechanics. Your concentration is on the music.

Beat Saber is mostly repetitive motions, moving your hands quickly up and down, back and forth, often very, very quickly. Synth Riders is about flow, moving in broad circles or waves in time with the music. When you do move your hands to individual notes it feels slow at first, until you realize that you're being prompted to imitate a dance move, snapping your fingers, or emphasizing lyrics with your hands, or even going all 'Stayin' Alive' John Travolta style. One really positive effect of that is that it works with more types of music. Beat Saber doesn't always work well with music that isn't fast or doesn't have a strong beat. Since Synth Riders allows larger, smoother motions, though, it does. It can handle longer, more dramatic notes as a single movement can be made to last several seconds with the streams.

Bottom line? It's a little less of a workout than Beat Saber, but only bit a tiny bit. It's easier to play and flows better, and is a great way to listen to music while moving. If you want to face a physical challenge that requires focus and speed set to music, play Beat Saber. If you want to enjoy music while engaging in still-demanding physical activity, play Synth Riders. They're both fantastic games, and both are staying installed on my system.

Here's a couple more videos showing how the movements flow and imitate dance (footwork is option, but is fun, and will keep your family marvelously entertained as they laugh at you.)



This one does a great job of showing how a slower song can work with it. This video has the same song shown twice, once with the mixed reality style, and once in first person that lets you see how it actually looks while you're playing the game.

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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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My sister gave me a Quest 2 for my birthday this week, which has opened up new possibilities. I'm actually thinking of trying the VZFit 7-day trial, which is a VR app for stationary biking. I already have everything I need (a stationary bike with an exposed crank, a cadence sensor (which run about $25), and a Quest/Quest 2. Basically, you install the app on the headset, get on the bike, and pedal. It then gives you a bunch of options. You can play games (a variety of them, including car racing, helicopter combat, horse chases, canoeing, etc.) The videos I've seen make the games look so-so, but that's not really what appeals to me.

What is really cool is that you can ride anywhere in Google Street View. You can get on your stationary bike and ride down any road, anywhere in the world that is covered by Street View. They have pre-made routes with great scenery, or you can just plop yourself wherever you like. You can turn simply by leaning your head. You can also turn on a virtual trainer who rides alongside you give you tips, advice, and encouragement, or ride in multiplayer mode with other people. And with the cadence sensor installed it can tell how fast you're pedaling and translate that into in-game speed. It's not perfect. It has the Street View fade in effect, which would be distracting. But compared to sitting in my bedroom moving my feet in a circle every day, the idea of getting to take a ride through Japan, or London, or Yosemite, or through my old neighborhood is really appealing.

The basic app is free, but limited (one game and one map location, each of which change every day.) The sub is $10/month, which isn't terrible if it will motivate me to get on the bike outside of my scheduled workout. But the free version and free trial of the premium is worth at least looking at, I think.



Here's the official trailer, which is trailery, but does show some of the games.

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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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I just wanted to say I appreciate your efforts here. I keep telling myself I will do *something* and active VR games is probably the most likely form of exercise to happen. I've gotten into Beat Saber and Thrill of the Fight each a couple of times but then something always comes along to pull me away (why play those games when X new game is waiting for me on my PC?). As an FYI on Thrill of the Fight, I did punch a pillar adjacent to my open play space once and damn did that hurt. Luckily I didn't get any blood on it and apparently am not strong enough to destroy the pillar bringing the entire house down on top of me despite what I expected based on what many other video games have shown me.

I would check to see if there is something similar to your VR stationary bike thing for a treadmill but that just doesn't seem safe. With a stationary bike there are fewer options to mess up and cause harm to person or property.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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coopasonic wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:07 am I just wanted to say I appreciate your efforts here.
Thanks. I was wondering if anybody was reading these!
I would check to see if there is something similar to your VR stationary bike thing for a treadmill but that just doesn't seem safe. With a stationary bike there are fewer options to mess up and cause harm to person or property.
There is. I saw something about it a week or two ago. It puts a virtual treadmill in the same location as your real one to keep you centered. I'll see if I can find it again.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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coopasonic wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:07 am I would check to see if there is something similar to your VR stationary bike thing for a treadmill but that just doesn't seem safe. With a stationary bike there are fewer options to mess up and cause harm to person or property.
Happy Run No idea how well, or if, it works. I've never been on a treadmill in my life. I wouldn't hate having one, but it would take up way too much space.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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Question - are you using the Quest 2 as is, or do you have accessories for it? I keep seeing reviews that the headstrap is non-optimal. Do you have issues during exercise with it moving around?
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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gbasden wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:37 pm Question - are you using the Quest 2 as is, or do you have accessories for it? I keep seeing reviews that the headstrap is non-optimal. Do you have issues during exercise with it moving around?
One of the items my sister sent me with it was an alternate headstrap. I tried the default one and, yeah, it's terrible. I would saw your ears off.

/edit - I believe it was this one, and it works just fine. She also sent a non-Oculus link cable, a set of Kiwi controller covers, and lens protectors. I've added cotton mask covers (for washable sweat absorption), controller halo covers (to prevent breakage), and a set of earbuds. When I can afford it I'll be adding a battery pack.

That's why I said she talked to someone who knows their stuff. The accessories she sent were exactly the right kind of items. In fact, the Kiwi controller covers are the same type I put on the Rift-S controllers. I consider them a must for workouts, as they keep the controllers from sliding out of my sweaty palms and allow me to open my hands without dropping the controllers (which is really nice for grabbing a quick drink or just airing out my hands for a second.)

Or for gesturing groovily while playing Synth Riders.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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Bringing the discussion here from the main VR thread.

I've been using Supernatural VR for a couple of weeks as a workout, and I'm loving it. Before, I was allowing myself to use VR once per week for one of my 'scheduled' cardio workouts just to keep things fresh. With Supernatural VR I'm comfortable using it as the main workout. Yeah, it has a subscription, but since I'm not sitting on the stationary bike as much, I decided to cancel my Audible subscription to balance it out.

It really is a lot like Beat Saber, but a few things make it a much better workout.

First, the notes aren't placed for speed rolls or clever moves. They're placed based on how they make you move. Jumping from high notes to low notes isn't about the song flow, it's about making you reach. You can't get by with flicking your wrists here, and weak hits won't break the notes. They'll throw in a squat triangle, then immediately throw in a high note, which keeps your torso up and forces you to stand up quickly out of the squat. They'll give you lunge triangles on alternating sides with side notes to force you to really move, and it works really well.

Second, there is a rating at the end (accuracy, power, total score, and leaderboards) but there is no indication of it while you're playing. That puts the focus on the movement and activity, not on scores. It makes you focus on doing your best as opposed to giving up halfway through a song when you see your score isn't great.

Third, unlike Beat Saber or most similar games, the songs are only available as playlists. In addition to genre, you choose your intensity (determines not placement, speed, squats/lunges) and duration (anywhere form 6-7 minutes up to 45-50 minutes.) Then you play through that playlist, with about a 15-second break in between each song. You can pause during that break if you want to (or need water, or to wipe your headset), but otherwise it just jumps right into the next song. The score only shows at the end of the entire playlist. What that does is maintain the intensity. With games that let you work out (like Beat Saber), you typically play one song, then stare at a score screen, then load into a menu, scroll around for your next song, choose it, then load back into the game. With Supernatural, you just keep going, which keeps your heart rate up throughout the entire sequence. That's a big, big plus.

Fourth, the songs in a playlist don't have linear intensity. That wasn't something I noticed the first couple of times I've played, but I have since. The first song might be lighter to help you warm up, then the next song more intense, then the next even more intense with lots of big arm movements. The next song will maintain that level, but have more lower body movement, then back to arms, then one that requires faster movement. It builds you up to the peak intensity, then keeps you there and varies the movements to work different parts of your body, then rest those parts within the same workout. With other games you may pick one song that's high intensity, then two that are lower, then a high one, not out of design, but just because there is no real overarching plan that ties them together.

And the music options are great for the variety. Top-40 pop, jazz, EDM, classical, oldies, rock, punk, country, R&B, hip-hop, broadway. One of my favorite warmup tracks is all secret agent themes - Bond, Mission Impossible, Hawaii Five-0, Austin Powers, etc. Such a nice change over the same-old that other games stick to.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a related note, I think I've retired PowerBeats VR. It is the first exercise-first VR game I tried, and as I've tried others, it just hasn't held up. For one thing, while it makes you work out, it doesn't do so smoothly. It feels... harsh, and not in a good way. It's too jerky, and I see now that it has a lot of potential to cause problems with joints. The built-in music wasn't great, and the automatic track generator didn't work well. In the end it would make you sweat, but didn't stay fun for long, and didn't feel good. There are much better options.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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Grrrr, I hope you have a referral link for all the selling you are doing here. :D
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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Nah, I just like to say good things about things that I get a benefit from. If other people benefit, I win!
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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I'm still continuing to use it as well. It's really deceptive in that sometimes I'm in the middle of a workout thinking, "This doesn't seem that hard. Am I getting any real benefit?" Then 5 minutes later I feel sweat pouring down the back of my head and check my watch to see I put in 30+ active minutes at a sufficient training heartrate.

I would suggest doing it in the privacy of your own home when nobody else is there with you. My wife walked in on me mid-workout one day and her cackles of laughter still haunt me. She called it "the single most unattractive thing I think I've ever seen you do." Ouch. :lol:
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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YellowKing wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:00 pmI would suggest doing it in the privacy of your own home when nobody else is there with you. My wife walked in on me mid-workout one day and her cackles of laughter still haunt me. She called it "the single most unattractive thing I think I've ever seen you do." Ouch. :lol:
I've actually heard that's an alternative use for infrared lights. If it's dark enough outside you can use them to play VR games in your backyard and no-one will be able to see you flail around. Unless they have night vision goggles I suppose, but that seems a bit of a longshot.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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NERF or Nothing, baby!

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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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YellowKing wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:00 pm I'm still continuing to use it as well. It's really deceptive in that sometimes I'm in the middle of a workout thinking, "This doesn't seem that hard. Am I getting any real benefit?" Then 5 minutes later I feel sweat pouring down the back of my head and check my watch to see I put in 30+ active minutes at a sufficient training heartrate.

I would suggest doing it in the privacy of your own home when nobody else is there with you. My wife walked in on me mid-workout one day and her cackles of laughter still haunt me. She called it "the single most unattractive thing I think I've ever seen you do." Ouch. :lol:
Own it. You are in the neighborhood of 50 and doing something other than sitting on the couch or at the bar. It may look unattractive but I bet she finds having a healthier husband more attractive.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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How does it compare to Dance Dance Revolution?
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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Lorini wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:12 pm How does it compare to Dance Dance Revolution?
I've never played DDR, but the impression I have is that it's pressing floor buttons with your feet in sync with prompts. Some quick checking finds one metabolic study that puts it right about 5.8 METs (a measure of calorie burn that isn't dependent on the participant's weight), while another put it at 8 METs, so probably around 7 would be a safe bet. Beat Saber is 6-7, and PowerBeats is 7-8. I'd guess that Supernatural falls closer to PowerBeats using the highly scientific method known as 'I done all three, and I think so.' It isn't a big enough difference to really matter much in a normal length workout.

So, as far as that goes, they'd be comparable when it comes to burning calories.

Supernatural would, however, give a better workout, as it involves a variety of motions, many of which are full-body motions. It works your whole lower body with squats and lunges, works your arms and shoulders with the swings, and engages your core the entire time. I'd make the same criticism of Beat Saber as a workout, as it works your arms but not much else (save for certain maps - but you're not doing ~170 squats per hour, either.)

Of course, any of them depend on you actually putting the effort in - I know that I've seen videos of people on DDR sitting and just using their feet, and people in Beat Saber who just flick their wrists and don't move. You can cheese your way through the squats by setting your squat level high, for instance, or just ducking your head.

Here are a few videos of people playing it. The notes are like Beat Saber's - you hit the black and white with the black and white bats. The triangles are your stance. You stand tall for the tall ones (and between triangles), and you squat for the low one. The canted triangles are lunges - you squat, but move your torso to whichever side the peak is on. In other words, you keep your head right under the peak of the triangles.



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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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This is purely a bragging post. The overlay is yesterday's workout. The background is the Audio Trip/YUR leaderboards.

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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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I picked up Beat Saber and have had fun with it. Perhaps as I keep going through campaign mode and/or make things faster it will get to the point where it feels like a cardio workout, but so far, it's just been light fun. There's a challenge in that I don't always meet the objectives the first time or two, but it hasn't been crazy yet.

To get a more intense workout, I picked up Thrill of the Fight today. Holy Schnikies. It's just a simple boxing game, but three rounds of trying to pummel and not get pummeled was definitely all I could handle for today. We'll see if my thoughts change over the next few days, but so far I like this one for an exercise challenge.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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Yeah, I've heard great things about Thrill of the Fight. I just don't have the space to play it. About 95% of my workouts now are Supernatural, Synth Riders, and Audio Trip.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

Post by disarm »


paulbaxter wrote:I picked up Beat Saber and have had fun with it. Perhaps as I keep going through campaign mode and/or make things faster it will get to the point where it feels like a cardio workout, but so far, it's just been light fun. There's a challenge in that I don't always meet the objectives the first time or two, but it hasn't been crazy yet.
I've never felt like Beat Saber gets me moving as much as other games unless I really make a point to move my whole body. Instead of becoming more of a workout, I feel like the harder levels require more focused movement with your arms and wrists. You often can't keep up with fast notes if your moves are too exaggerated.

Synth Riders on the other hand...

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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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That would be my feeling as well. The people who play on the hardest difficulty generally stay more or less still, lock their elbows to their sides, hold the controllers around the ring (so the sabers point outward, ala Wolverine), and just flick their forearms and wrists to get the speed. The best description I've heard is that they look like a t-rex having a seizure. They dodge obstacles by simply moving their head a little.

Synth Riders requires you to move quite a bit more, and Audio Trip more than that (partially because they spread the notes out more, and partially because the barriers detect both headset and hands, as opposed to just the headset.) Supernatural requires some choice to play along in regards to the squats and lunges, but they design it to force you to move your arms more than any of the others.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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Blackhawk wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:52 pm Yeah, I've heard great things about Thrill of the Fight. I just don't have the space to play it. About 95% of my workouts now are Supernatural, Synth Riders, and Audio Trip.
How much space do you need for Thrill of the Fight?
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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Enough that you can walk around your opponent within the ring, plus enough to throw punches beyond that. I tried it once and had to refund it - I had the space listed as a requirement, but they didn't mention that you need an extra foot and a half on each side to punch into. I very nearly punched my TV with my controller.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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https://www.oculus.com/experiences/ques ... cale=en_US
Room scale is required with a minimum supported play area size of 6.5ft by 6.5ft (2m by 2m).
The more the better really. You can in theory play it in a very small space but you limit your options in dealing with the opponent. It's hard to float like a butterfly if you don't have room to move around.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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Thanks
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

Post by Blackhawk »

It isn't an intentional workout, per say, but shooters are providing one hell of a shoulder workout for me. If I spend an evening playing a shooter for which I use my VR gunstock, I'm essentially holding a light weight and holding my arms out for two or three hours at a time. The stock plus cups plus controllers plus straps plus slings plus batteries = ~2 1/2 pounds, another couple of pounds if I add the bipod. Holding that at arm's length and moving it up and down for hours on end leaves my shoulders feeling like I overdid it at the gym!
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

Post by TheMix »

You could even buy some wrist weights to make it even more of a workout. :D

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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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TheMix wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:27 am You could even buy some wrist weights to make it even more of a workout. :D
I've got some, but egads, no. Hell, for that matter I could fill the tubes of the gunstock full of Liquid Gravity.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

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This isn't out yet, but it's looking like it could have a lot of promise.


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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

Post by D.A.Lewis »

As some may recall, I;m a big time fitness fanatic. I have my other routines but now VR is a part of it

I cut and pasted this from the VR thead,

Never expected VR to be an exercise alternate but yeah, it is.

I warm up with either:
VZfit(uses google maps and exercise all over the world0
HoloVR(mostly animated locations but the troglodyte mine is a must for any RPG gamer)
HitVR(dance section that makes me less lame)

And then straight to The thrill of the Fight (only at 3 rounds for now)
This one program alone is probably worth the price of the Oculus
this is real boxing with a real workout
yeah the opponents are animated but this in not a Mike Tyson Knockout game, this is you in the ring with some guy swinging at you
If I had the stamina I would do this all day.
(in my perfect world I live in a kung fun monastery and practice all day . . . namaste......)

and then cool down with some Beat Saber (100 dollar bill ya'll)
took me a while to get this, but spectacular fun and you know the saying, dance like no one can see you
well, swing your light saber to the beat with your VR glasses and no one can see you

At night I mediate before bed with Maloka
after each meditation session you get a little prize to decorate your island


Not so sure about Les Miles, got his DVDs back in the day and some of the gym classes...Meh
Now if Tony Horton could somehow get into the VR biz . . . . .
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

Post by Blackhawk »

For now, I'm still using Audio Trip more than anything else for exercise. It's still my go-to.
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

Post by D.A.Lewis »

Audio Trip: Cardio Update is one of the next VR apps up in my queue

but Drunken Bar Fight is looking like a lot of fun
URL drunkerBarFight

and seeing as my sister now has the quest, I'm looking for a multi player dance game (shes good, Im not, I challenged her anyways.....)
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Re: [VR] VR as exercise, VR workout games

Post by gbasden »

I've been really enjoying Supernatural as a workout game. At least it's giving my poor out of shape body a workout! :) Any new hotness that people have been using recently?
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