tesla motors

Everything else!

Moderators: Bakhtosh, EvilHomer3k

Post Reply
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:20 am It may surprise you to learn that I do not agree with all of Tesla's and Musk's decisions.
It does. :oops:
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:28 am
Zaxxon wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:20 am It may surprise you to learn that I do not agree with all of Tesla's and Musk's decisions.
It does. :oops:
Weren't paying attention during the cave diving fun, eh? ;)
User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 20969
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish

Re: tesla motors

Post by coopasonic »

I am pretty sure Musk doesn't agree with all of Musk's decisions.
-Coop
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

coopasonic wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:32 pm I am pretty sure Musk doesn't agree with all of Musk's decisions.
Remember the 'we are closing all our stores' week? Fun times.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

On my news feed this morning
Tesla Inc (NASDAQ: TSLA) has slashed the prices of the base models of its Model 3 and Model Y vehicles.

What Happened: Previously, the Standard Range Plus Model 3 sold for $37,990 and is now priced $1,000 cheaper at $36,990.

The Model 3 Performance (AWD) will now sell for $55,990 and was previously priced at $54,990.

There is no change to the price of the Model 3 Long Range (AWD), which continues to be sold for $46,990.

As for the Model Y trims — the Model Y Standard Range sees its price drop by $2,000 to $39,990. There is no change in the price of the Model Y Long Range (AWD).

The Model Y Performance (AWD) will now cost $60,990 and was previously priced at $59,990, which is a price hike of $1,000.

Why it Matters: In January, Tesla cut prices of its European Model 3. In Germany, the Model 3 became cheaper up to EUR 4,000, and in France by as much as EUR 6,000.

At the end of last year, it was reported that the Elon Musk-led company is unlikely to cut Model 3 prices in China.

In China, Tesla made five price cuts between October 2019 and October 2020.

Price Action: Tesla shares closed nearly 0.2% higher at $798.15 on Wednesday and fell about 0.6% in the after-hours session.

Related Link: Tesla Denies Development Of $25,000 Model 2 Vehicle In China: cnEVpost

Click here to check out Benzinga’s EV Hub for the latest electric vehicles news.
Why it Matters:

My car battery died last week and cost nearly $200 to replace. Once this sort of maintenance becomes too common place, it is time to replace my car. And if cars are going to be generally expensive, Tesla may end up on the table... I have no idea where I'm going to get 30k+ for a car though. I started in the new car market because I could warrant $13lk+ for reliability. 30K + is a hard pill to swallow, EV or ICE.
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

If Biden's $7k EV credit extension hits, it'll be time to strike.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

Heard this out of context bit in the background while working. Tesla is making more money off of bitcoin than they made selling cars in all of 2020. Not sure what the hard facts are. I didn't hear the whole thing that led to the conclusion.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: tesla motors

Post by LawBeefaroni »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:43 pm Heard this out of context bit in the background while working. Tesla is making more money off of bitcoin than they made selling cars in all of 2020. Not sure what the hard facts are. I didn't hear the whole thing that led to the conclusion.
Their paper gains in BTC are higher than their 2020 net profit. Or were when BTC was pushing $60K. I think 2020 earnings were around $750M.

And remember that's not all from selling cars. A large part (most?) was from selling offsets and regulatory credits.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:41 pm And remember that's not all from selling cars. A large part (most?) was from selling offsets and regulatory credits.
I remember. I was the guy who originally brought this up and started the debate on the sustainability of the model and whether it was enough to warrant buying TSLA at around $250 a share a little over a year ago. Oh, to go back and time, and do more than find a $1000 to show my strong belief that TSLA was easily worth $300 - $400 a share based on the profitability of those credits and being first to the gate with reduced labor needs to build an EV. (Forget selling off from $600 - $800 because well, while it was a good model for value $400, not so much for $800, but whatdoIknowfromstupid?)
User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 17424
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: tesla motors

Post by pr0ner »

Ew.

Hodor.
User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 20969
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish

Re: tesla motors

Post by coopasonic »

pr0ner wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:36 am Ew.
Not wildly different from the Model 3/Y interior (which I love) except for the yoke instead of a wheel. Seems to go with the exterior. I wasn't buying one anyway, but no complaints here.
-Coop
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 17424
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: tesla motors

Post by pr0ner »

coopasonic wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:40 am
pr0ner wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:36 am Ew.
Not wildly different from the Model 3/Y interior (which I love) except for the yoke instead of a wheel. Seems to go with the exterior. I wasn't buying one anyway, but no complaints here.
I've been inside a Model 3. It doesn't look like someone designed it on an N64 like that picture did.
Hodor.
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

pr0ner wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:41 am
coopasonic wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:40 am
pr0ner wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:36 am Ew.
Not wildly different from the Model 3/Y interior (which I love) except for the yoke instead of a wheel. Seems to go with the exterior. I wasn't buying one anyway, but no complaints here.
I've been inside a Model 3. It doesn't look like someone designed it on an N64 like that picture did.
But it's cyber! And stuff! Hard angles!

I don't particularly like the CT interior, either. Though I also wasn't a huge fan of the 3 interior until I owned one. It'll certainly be interesting to see the reaction among the F-150 crowd once it's available. Talk about a drastic divergence from what any pickup owner is used to.
User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 20969
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish

Re: tesla motors

Post by coopasonic »

Yeah the aesthetic is different but matches the austere/angled exterior. It's not pretty, but I don't think that's what they were going for.

It doesn't matter hugely to me, other than I want Tesla to be successful so BEV options continue to grow (and prices continue to drop). It's not like I am in the market for the beast.
-Coop
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 19324
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: tesla motors

Post by Jaymann »

pr0ner wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:41 am
coopasonic wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:40 am
pr0ner wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:36 am Ew.
Not wildly different from the Model 3/Y interior (which I love) except for the yoke instead of a wheel. Seems to go with the exterior. I wasn't buying one anyway, but no complaints here.
I've been inside a Model 3. It doesn't look like someone designed it on an N64 like that picture did.
Or maybe in Minecraft.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Hrothgar
Posts: 1087
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:38 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: tesla motors

Post by Hrothgar »

This crash happened not too far from where I live. Of course, I couldn't afford to live in that neighborhood.

I was under the impression that autopilot wouldn't work without someone in the driver's seat. It burned for four hours.

Is it just me, or is it odd that Tesla dissolved their press office?

Image
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

It is odd, yes. But then again odd is Tesla's thing.

I'm kind of over this sort of press coverage, though. No one knows that AP was enabled (the only ones that could are dead or Tesla, who hasn't commented), and the circumstances make it highly unlikely that it was. It wouldn't normally engage at all on a street like this, and definitely wouldn't have accelerated to the speed that this crash seems to indicate.

In any event, this is why we can't have nice things.

Image
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: tesla motors

Post by Isgrimnur »

The one thing I know about Spring is that no directory assistance listing is actually in Spring. They're all in The Woodlands.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
disarm
Posts: 4951
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: Hartford, CT
Contact:

Re: tesla motors

Post by disarm »

I recently took care of a patient who became quadraplegic and was having his broken neck fused after he ran into a tree at a high rate of speed. He was the only person in the car, not wearing a seatbelt, and they found him crumpled up in the back seat like a pretzel. Just because someone isn't in the front seat after an accident doesn't mean they didn't start out there when it happened
User avatar
Paingod
Posts: 13132
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am

Re: tesla motors

Post by Paingod »

I saw a video from a Tesla driver showing exactly what happens when the seatbelt on the Tesla isn't engaged when the car is in autopilot. It slows down, pulls over, and stops - all while sirens are basically blaring in the car. Even if they "ended up" in the back seat after the crash, they had to go out of their way to defeated safety measures.

Maybe this was a "hacked" Tesla that someone had modded? Might be hard to know with everything completely destroyed by fire.
Black Lives Matter

2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

Musk tweeted yesterday (there's that annoying PR strategy again) that the car in question did not have FSD, and logs show Autopilot was not engaged at the time of the crash.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:34 pm No one knows that AP was enabled (the only ones that could are dead or Tesla, who hasn't commented), and the circumstances make it highly unlikely that it was.
CNBC says Musk said the car did not have AP option.

Edit BAMMed. Go back to bed.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: tesla motors

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Forgive me if I take Elon Musk's tweets with a massive grain of salt.

He's never shown, or been held to, any degree of truthfulness with his tweets.

I also believe he hedged saying "data logs recovered so far show..."
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:20 am Forgive me if I take Elon Musk's tweets with a massive grain of salt.
No forgiveness needed--of course we should have the data before jumping to conclusions. My point, as it often it with coverage relating to Tesla, is that 'journalists' should do the same but rarely do. Just taking the article linked above:
Feds investigating fatal Tesla crash where no one was in the driver seat
Headline leads to believe that this was an AP crash, without evidence. As disarm pointed out, the fact that there was no driver in the driver's seat is not an indication that AP was enabled (that's not the Occam's razor implication, at least).
The spokesperson did not respond to a follow-up question about whether that would include a recall of Tesla’s Autopilot feature that was likely involved in the crash.
AP implicated, without evidence.
The duration of the fire, which lasted four hours and required 30,000 gallons of water to extinguish, is said to have made identification difficult.
The fire was out in 2-3 minutes.
Minutes before the crash, the wives of the men were said to overhear them talking about the Autopilot feature of the vehicle
Awesome.
This is also the latest incident to involve a driver using Autopilot crashing into a stationary object.
Highly likely it is not, as anyone with an even passing first-hand familiarity with AP could have told the author.
and Tesla has yet to address it in any meaningful way
Absurd. Hands-on nag has been increased, and further increased at higher speeds; seat belt must be buckled or AP immediately disengages, 3/Y have driver-monitoring cams that code checks indicate will be enabled RSN, and a bunch of other small tweaks I could bore you with. Regardless of what Tesla does, people who determine to use AP in an unsafe way will succeed at using AP in an unsafe way (as they do with cruise control and vehicles in general on a daily-but-much-less-covered way).

Is it possible that this is a case where two responsible adults got into their vehicle, had AP enable itself on their un-lane-marked residential street while the seat belt unbuckled itself, experienced the vehicle spontaneously accelerate to more than double the speed limit in a very short distance, while... somehow... the driver vacated the driver's seat? I mean, sure? Software be software?

Is it likely? Absolutely not. To the point that it strains credulity, and certainly well past the point where any journalist worth their weight in <your choice of largely worthless material> should be embarrassed to have covered this as an AP crash.

AP generally won't enable without lane markings. AP won't ever accelerate quickly. AP won't engage without a seat belt buckled, and will immediately disengage if the buckle is un-done.

We don't have all the answers, but if we're going to go out on limbs, as the article's author did, the correct (ie most likely by a country mile) limb to crawl onto is that the driver was behaving irresponsibly, and was either utilizing plain-old HumanPilot, or was intentionally working to defeat multiple safeguards.

As the resident Tesla superfan, I understand that you're all likely shaking your heads at me right now, but I can't help but get annoyed at this sort of coverage. I've got several tens of thousands of miles of AP usage under my belt, in all sorts of conditions, in multiple vehicles, over the course of several years. I've seen how it acts in virtually every scenario. I've seen how it's improved (and at times taken small steps back) over time. I've taken multi-thousand mile trips on AP only to turn around a day later and take the same trip back in a gas vehicle with plain-Jane cruise control, which drove home just how much AP improves safety when used correctly. I've taken 10,000+ miles of road trips in vehicles with competing driver-assist technology (specifically Volvo's PilotAssist) and seen how much more dangerous their implementations are.

The responsible headline for this incident would have been 'vehicle crashes into tree at high speed; two occupants dead.' It's a regrettable scenario that plays itself out daily in America with little fanfare. If and when it's shown that the car was not behaving normally, or that the drivers criminally mis-used the vehicle, point that out.

This nonsense click-bait conjecture that casts doubt on a great feature is just beyond the pale. Knock Tesla for lots of things, like selling FSD years before FSD was any sort of a concrete thing, or having bad communication with owners, or any number of Musk's inanities over the years. They've got no shortage of valid targets; this ain't one of them.
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: tesla motors

Post by noxiousdog »

I'm as critical of tesla as it gets, but I'd be shocked if Musk wasn't far more correct than the journalist in this case.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 19324
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: tesla motors

Post by Jaymann »

The information we have so far is that the reporter is a dickwad.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Hrothgar
Posts: 1087
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:38 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: tesla motors

Post by Hrothgar »

Sorry, I somehow missed that the Verge and Consumer Reports went anti Tesla. The latest salvo:

Tesla’s Autopilot is ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver’s seat
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

Wait till they dig into what happens in any other manufacturer's car.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: tesla motors

Post by LawBeefaroni »

No other manufacturer sells cruise control or seatbelt detection as "autopilot" or "full self driving".

Tesla is always pushing the limits of marketing and regulatory compliance. It's not a surprise that they constantly get heat like this, even when it's undeserved.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: tesla motors

Post by Isgrimnur »

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:50 pm Wait till they dig into what happens in any other manufacturer's car.
Image
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:03 pm No other manufacturer sells cruise control or seatbelt detection as "autopilot" or "full self driving".

Tesla is always pushing the limits of marketing and regulatory compliance. It's not a surprise that they constantly get heat like this, even when it's undeserved.
The point (and really, it is the point) is that CR just went out and showed that it's 'easy' to 'trick' Autopilot, by doing the following:
  • Attaching a weighted chain to the steering wheel to simulate hand pressure
  • Starting Autopilot by sitting in the driver's seat, on top of a buckled seat belt
  • Setting AP down to 0 mph and changing seats
  • Raising the AP speed limit
It's something that literally will never happen unless the driver has decided beforehand that they want to drive in an unsafe manner, and something that any driver who has made that decision can do in any vehicle on the road, made by any manufacturer.

This is analogous to the 'we're already on the other side of the air-tight hatchway' vulnerability type in infosec--you've just shown that by intentionally doing something incredibly stupid that you have the ability to do, you can do something incredibly stupid.

Should Tesla use the driver camera? Yes (and they're working on it). That's also defeatable if the driver wants to do it. Should Tesla monitor the seat for weight after AP is engaged rather than just at the start? Yes. That's also defeatable if the driver wants to do it. And on and on. Once these things are in place, drivers will still do stupid things.

And I know we've covered the naming over and over in the past, but you've got a point on FSD. AP, not so much. I know it's en vogue to crap on the name, but it's actually the most accurate name (unlike something like Ford's Co-Pilot, which also pulls from aviation terms but instead pulls the name of something that does actually drive the vehicle for you, without supervision, while their product does not do that).
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: tesla motors

Post by Isgrimnur »

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:16 pm Should Tesla use the driver camera? Yes (and they're working on it). That's also defeatable if the driver wants to do it.
Image
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:20 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:16 pm Should Tesla use the driver camera? Yes (and they're working on it). That's also defeatable if the driver wants to do it.
Image


Lots more from that dude on many aspects of Autopilot for anyone interested.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: tesla motors

Post by Isgrimnur »

I'm just here for the jokes.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:26 pm I'm just here for the jokes.
I'd be down for a name change if they named their AI 'Otto.' Then we'd just have OttoPilot.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: tesla motors

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:16 pm

It's something that literally will never happen unless the driver has decided beforehand that they want to drive in an unsafe manner, and something that any driver who has made that decision can do in any vehicle on the road, made by any manufacturer.

This is analogous to the 'we're already on the other side of the air-tight hatchway' vulnerability type in infosec--you've just shown that by intentionally doing something incredibly stupid that you have the ability to do, you can do something incredibly stupid.

Should Tesla use the driver camera? Yes (and they're working on it). That's also defeatable if the driver wants to do it. Should Tesla monitor the seat for weight after AP is engaged rather than just at the start? Yes. That's also defeatable if the driver wants to do it. And on and on. Once these things are in place, drivers will still do stupid things.

I don't think anyone is arguing this would happen by accident. But if people think the car is capable of driving itself, they may be more likely to decide to do this.

I can go to similar effort to get my car to move on its own but I know it will crash.
Zaxxon wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:16 pm
And I know we've covered the naming over and over in the past, but you've got a point on FSD. AP, not so much. I know it's en vogue to crap on the name, but it's actually the most accurate name (unlike something like Ford's Co-Pilot, which also pulls from aviation terms but instead pulls the name of something that does actually drive the vehicle for you, without supervision, while their product does not do that).
Common parlance says otherwise.

"I've been on autopilot all day" doesn't mean "Ive had thrust and attitude controls handled by a computer." It means "I haven't paid attention to anything and somehow ended up here."

"Jesus is my Co-pilot" doesn't mean "Jesus is there to handle things in the event I become incapacitated or need to take a leak.". It means, "Jesus provides support and guidance."


Pick any colloquial use of the terms. Ford legal department wins that one.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:31 pm I don't think anyone is arguing this would happen by accident. But if people think the car is capable of driving itself, they may be more likely decide to do this.
I'm with you on Musk overselling FSD, but--while regrettable--that's a far cry from actual drivers in the seat of the vehicle actually turning it on.

Zero people who actually own/drive a Tesla think that. None. Nobody. You are literally told this in multiple ways before you can enable the feature for your driver profile, and then again every single time you turn it on. If you want to 'OK' people completely ignoring all of that, then there's no reason to have this conversation as those people shouldn't be behind the wheel of any vehicle. I know folks want to keep pretending that this is a widespread misconception, and maybe it is among random folks, but it's not for anyone actually driving the cars.
Common parlance says otherwise.

"I've been on autopilot all day" doesn't mean "Ive had thrust and attitude controls handled by a computer." It means "I haven't paid attention to anything and somehow ended up here."

"Jesus is my Co-pilot" doesn't mean "Jesus is there to handle things on the event I become incapacitated or need to take a leak.". It means, "Jesus provides support and guidance."

Pick any colloquial use of the terms. Ford legal department wins that one.
Common parlance is no more relevant than actual meaning. I hear you, but again the word choice of Autopilot is accurate in the context of the names of technology that assists but does not replace the pilot. It's the most correct name for this sort of service.
Wikipedia, summarizing an FAA description wrote:An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft, marine craft or spacecraft without requiring constant manual control by a human operator. Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle, allowing the operator to focus on broader aspects of operations (for example, monitoring the trajectory, weather and on-board systems).
On both these fronts, you (and many others!) consistently want Tesla to dumb things down to the lowest common denominator. It's why we can't have nice things. Why not instead treat drivers as though they have a responsibility to themselves and others, and assume a baseline minimum competency to read words and follow basic instructions before piloting vehicles? (Just as we actually do treat drivers in every other scenario.)

Why does a Chevy let someone drive if they have a BAC over zero? It's feasible for them to install sensors and at least make drivers actively assert that any alcohol in the vehicle's atmosphere is coming from a passenger. They should do that--someone could get hurt!

Why does a Volvo let someone engage TACC and their own Autosteer feature, which is considerably less adept than Tesla's, but not monitor their eyes and seat weight? Someone should do something--someone could get hurt!

Again, this entire 'problem' is caused by irresponsible people wanting to misuse the product. Those same irresponsible people will succeed in misusing any future iterations that are 'safer.' This entire problem already, today, does not exist for anyone using the product as designed and as repeatedly told they should. It's flashy to attack it because it's new and so far ahead of most competing driver aids, but that does not make it worthwhile to do so (and certainly does not make CR's stunt worthwhile).

The practical endgame for this sort of media focus is that the functionality of the system gets further restricted, which isn't good for anyone--no one is measurably safer, but the huge majority of folks who do use the feature responsibly end up with a slightly less-functional version (as we've seen with increased hand-pressure nags). I do want to see the interior camera begin to be used, but I'd much rather let Tesla improve things at their pace than see these scare stories continue. Because we've already seen scare stories about the potential for misuse when Tesla started installing the cameras (OMG Tesla can spy on you in the privacy of your vehicle now!).

They're going to get it from every side no matter what they do. What they have in place now is actually, for folks using it like adults, incredibly useful and greatly improves highway safety on long trips (speaking from my own experience and that of those I know personally there).
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:27 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:26 pm I'm just here for the jokes.
I'd be down for a name change if they named their AI 'Otto.' Then we'd just have OttoPilot.
Didn't NCIS do that like 20 years ago?
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

LordMortis wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:20 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:27 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:26 pm I'm just here for the jokes.
I'd be down for a name change if they named their AI 'Otto.' Then we'd just have OttoPilot.
Didn't NCIS do that like 20 years ago?
I'm sure it's not an original thought. Just cracks me up for some reason.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

Otto ended up being tampered with and killing people. So :ninja:
Post Reply