We Are ... Horrified

[Holman]

If it's such a winning move, you'd think someone would market an athletic cup with a rectal shield or something similar.

Seriously, why not?

Seems like it would make other movement awkward/painful.

Plus, just enforce the rules. No thumbs up asses.

A flexible pad like you see in bike shorts would do it.

[Pyperkub]

Looks like Nasser went to Federal Pound-him-in-the-ass prison:

Larry Nassar says he was assaulted by fellow inmates inside a Tucson, Arizona, federal prison where he is serving a 60-year sentence for child pornography.

The claim was included in court filings Tuesday in Ingham County (Michigan) court where Nassar is seeking a resentencing on a state plea deal for raping hundreds of girls and women who came to the former USA Gymnastics and Michigan State doctor seeking medical care.

[Isgrimnur]

If he’s beaten every day for the rest of his life, it won’t be enough pain to make up for that which he inflicted on those under his care.

[LawBeefaroni]

If it's such a winning move, you'd think someone would market an athletic cup with a rectal shield or something similar.

Seriously, why not?

Seems like it would make other movement awkward/painful.

Plus, just enforce the rules. No thumbs up asses.

A flexible pad like you see in bike shorts would do it.

When it gets to that point, maybe it's time to retire the sport.

[Isgrimnur]

USA Today

An Ohio State University team doctor who died years ago sexually abused at least 177 students over a period of decades so wantonly that students described his examinations as hazing — and their coaches, trainers, other team doctors and school leaders knew about it, according to an investigative report released Friday.

Dr. Richard Strauss abused the men from 1979 to 1997 — nearly his entire time at Ohio State — in episodes involving male students from at least 16 sports, plus his work at the student health center and his off-campus clinic, according to findings from a law firm that investigated the accusations, released by the university.

At one point he even appealed to various university officials, both formally and informally, to keep his job — including the office of the president at the time, Gordon Gee. A message was left Friday seeking comment from Gee.
...
The report found many of the students thought the doctor’s behavior was an “open secret” and that their coaches, trainers and other team doctors knew about it. The students described the examinations by Strauss as being “hazed” or going through a “rite of passage.”
...
In releasing the report, Ohio State president Michael Drake offered “profound regret and sincere apologies to each person who endured Strauss’ abuse.” He called it a “fundamental failure” of the institution and thanked survivors for their courage.

[Isgrimnur]

Michigan State

In late February, at his first meeting as Michigan State University's acting president, Satish Udpa formally apologized to survivors of Larry Nassar's sexual assault.

Now, the university has hired a firm to find out what its alumni think of Udpa's speech and the university's communications and messaging in the past few months.

"The survey will help us better understand how we should communicate with our alumni, as well as the Michigan public, in a way that is respectful, proactive and meets their expectations of our university," MSU spokeswoman Emily Guerrant told the Free Press. "Our alumni have been receiving regular updates from the university, and although local and state media have provided coverage of MSU’s leadership changes, we realize many people may not be fully aware of the positive changes taking place at MSU. This survey will help us determine the level of additional communications needed."

The survey was sent via email to various alumni and others. The survey ended Tuesday. A person who was sent the survey gave it the Free Press.
...
It asks how favorable people's views are toward the administration, athletic department, academics of MSU, research and leadership.

It also asks if they believe the university has done enough to make changes in the wake of the Nassar scandal.

Then it plays a video meant to be a commercial that starts with a shot of a teal ribbon. The voice-over on the video says the school didn't do enough to protect victims and took too long to respond, but has created strong policies, added staff and made a change to leadership.

That's a reference to interim President John Engler being forced out at the end of January. While in office, Engler, the former Republican governor of Michigan who took over for Lou Anna Simon, who was pushed out herself in the fallout of the Nassar scandal, was heavily criticized for a number of communications-related missteps.

Simon faces criminal charges that she lied to investigators about what she knew about the investigation of Nassar, a former MSU and Olympic doctor who is serving what is in effect a life sentence for his sexual abuse of hundreds of girls and young women.

Engler's communications told the Detroit News editorial board that Nassar survivors were "enjoying the spotlight" while the university is "trying to go back to work."

[ImLawBoy]

USA Today

An Ohio State University team doctor who died years ago sexually abused at least 177 students over a period of decades so wantonly that students described his examinations as hazing — and their coaches, trainers, other team doctors and school leaders knew about it, according to an investigative report released Friday.

Dr. Richard Strauss abused the men from 1979 to 1997 — nearly his entire time at Ohio State — in episodes involving male students from at least 16 sports, plus his work at the student health center and his off-campus clinic, according to findings from a law firm that investigated the accusations, released by the university.

At one point he even appealed to various university officials, both formally and informally, to keep his job — including the office of the president at the time, Gordon Gee. A message was left Friday seeking comment from Gee.
...
The report found many of the students thought the doctor’s behavior was an “open secret” and that their coaches, trainers and other team doctors knew about it. The students described the examinations by Strauss as being “hazed” or going through a “rite of passage.”
...
In releasing the report, Ohio State president Michael Drake offered “profound regret and sincere apologies to each person who endured Strauss’ abuse.” He called it a “fundamental failure” of the institution and thanked survivors for their courage.

We can't omit this fun tidbit from that article:

Previous to Friday’s release, his accusers had alleged more than 20 school officials and staff members, including two athletic directors and a coach who is now a congressman -- Republican U.S. Rep. Jim Jordan -- were aware of concerns about Strauss but didn’t stop him. Most of those claims are part of two related lawsuits against Ohio State that are headed to mediation .

[em2nought]

Boiling it down to a really basic idea regarding sports, I've always thought the taking a shower together at the gym "thing" was kind of creepy.

[ImLawBoy]

Boiling it down to a really basic idea regarding sports, I've always thought the taking a shower together at the gym "thing" was kind of creepy.

I think that boiling down years of abuse by powerful coaches and doctors that is ignored by university officials to your homophobia is kind of sad.

[em2nought]

Boiling it down to a really basic idea regarding sports, I've always thought the taking a shower together at the gym "thing" was kind of creepy.

I think that boiling down years of abuse by powerful coaches and doctors that is ignored by university officials to your homophobia is kind of sad.

Sometimes I think the ignoring was considered tolerant, and students were considered as adults. The WW2 generation all immediately grew up on Dec 7, 1941. Nowadays people think their children are children until their 30s. I don't think prior generations come off very well being judged by the current generation.

[ImLawBoy]

Boiling it down to a really basic idea regarding sports, I've always thought the taking a shower together at the gym "thing" was kind of creepy.

I think that boiling down years of abuse by powerful coaches and doctors that is ignored by university officials to your homophobia is kind of sad.

Sometimes I think the ignoring was considered tolerant, and students were considered as adults. The WW2 generation all immediately grew up on Dec 7, 1941. Nowadays people think their children are children until their 30s. I don't think prior generations come off very well being judged by the current generation.

Bullshit. Sundusky abused boys (not college players) in the PSU locker rooms. There should be no "tolerance" for pedophilia. Nassar abused hundreds of his patients over a long period. There should be no "tolerance" for a doctor abusing his patients, regardless of age. Straus abused 177 student athletes (that we know of) over a long period and it was so widely known that people talked openly of it. Again, there should be no "tolerance" for a doctor abusing his patients.

And none of that has anything to do with you trying to dismiss this because you're creeped out at the prospect of seeing another guy's dick in the showers.

[em2nought]

The showers seem more like the warm pot you put the lobster into, once you get him ok with that the next step is to send him to see the creepy team doctor or coach.

My sister and brother both went to Penn State so.... Maybe I can't not have a certain bias on this topic.

[ImLawBoy]

The showers seem more like the warm pot you put the lobster into, once you get him ok with that the next step is to send him to see the creepy team doctor or coach.

My sister and brother both went to Penn State so.... Maybe I can't not have a certain bias on this topic.

I think it's pretty clear that you have a bias on this topic, but it's unrelated to where anyone went to college.

[Isgrimnur]

NY Times

Michigan State University will pay a record $4.5 million fine for failing to protect students from sexual abuse following a sweeping investigation into the university’s response to allegations against a former team doctor and convicted sex criminal, Lawrence G. Nassar, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos announced Thursday.

The fine is part of a settlement with the Education Department, which initiated two investigations into the university’s handling of abuse allegations against Mr. Nassar, a former doctor for the American women’s gymnastics team, who held several positions at the school, and William Strampel, a former dean.
...
The fine, though dwarfed by the university’s $500 million civil settlement with sexually abused young women, was the largest ever levied under the Clery Act, a federal law that requires colleges to report all campus crimes. The department’s federal student aid office found a number of violations of the law, including a failure to properly report incidents and disclose crime statistics, and a failure to notify campus security of complaints.

Separately, Ms. DeVos had ordered the Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights to investigate whether the university met its obligations under Title IX, the federal civil rights law that requires schools to respond to and address sexual assaults on campus. That investigation found that the university did not adequately respond to complaints against Mr. Nassar and Mr. Strampel, had subjected students to a sexually hostile environment, and had repeatedly failed to take appropriate and prompt action when notified of complaints.
...
In addition to the fine, the university entered agreements with both Education Department offices that will require it to create a system for complying with the Clery Act, and to take a number of measures to overhaul its Title IX process. The university will have to offer remedies to those impacted by the sexual misconduct.

[em2nought]

The showers seem more like the warm pot you put the lobster into, once you get him ok with that the next step is to send him to see the creepy team doctor or coach.

My sister and brother both went to Penn State so.... Maybe I can't not have a certain bias on this topic.

I think it's pretty clear that you have a bias on this topic, but it's unrelated to where anyone went to college.

If you want to pronounce me homophobic after I've made one silly comment regarding "a dessert" and "getting ready to move" that's fine. Almost all the humor in the world died with the fat comedians. I hate to think what might happen if we lose Fluffy. I've probably been much closer to more penises in action than you, and it didn't bother me so... whatever Peace!

[Lorini]

It’s taxpayer money that’s paying that fine so what difference does it make. They won’t be actually punished, they’ll just get the money back in the next budget.

[Pyperkub]

Boiling it down to a really basic idea regarding sports, I've always thought the taking a shower together at the gym "thing" was kind of creepy.

I think that boiling down years of abuse by powerful coaches and doctors that is ignored by university officials to your homophobia is kind of sad.

Eh, while it's em2nought, I think it's still a valid point. I still have a problem with the group showers at the gym, even though when I lived in the Fraternity, we only had a multiple shower area.

Think also of the "plug-it-up" scene in Carrie, which had nothing to do with homophobia, yet was terrifying.

Being naked in a group shower area can feel very scary, especially if you already have body and other confidence issues, or are around people you're not sure you can trust. Which is true of just about everyone as they grow up.

Again, remember how all the girls tormented Carrie. That ganging up is a very real fear for a LOT of people, especially if you have ever been bullied.

You're at your most vulnerable and it can be very uncomfortable and scary even if one isn't homophobic.

[ImLawBoy]

Boiling it down to a really basic idea regarding sports, I've always thought the taking a shower together at the gym "thing" was kind of creepy.

I think that boiling down years of abuse by powerful coaches and doctors that is ignored by university officials to your homophobia is kind of sad.

Eh, while it's em2nought, I think it's still a valid point. I still have a problem with the group showers at the gym, even though when I lived in the Fraternity, we only had a multiple shower area.

Think also of the "plug-it-up" scene in Carrie, which had nothing to do with homophobia, yet was terrifying.

Being naked in a group shower area can feel very scary, especially if you already have body and other confidence issues, or are around people you're not sure you can trust. Which is true of just about everyone as they grow up.

Again, remember how all the girls tormented Carrie. That ganging up is a very real fear for a LOT of people, especially if you have ever been bullied.

You're at your most vulnerable and it can be very uncomfortable and scary even if one isn't homophobic.

That may be, but he literally "boiled down" decades of abuse to being creeped out in the showers. That's problematic whether the creepiness arises out of homophobia or body confidence issues or whatever. Perhaps I shouldn't assume that his cause was homophobia, but em hasn't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt in this area.

[Pyperkub]

Boiling it down to a really basic idea regarding sports, I've always thought the taking a shower together at the gym "thing" was kind of creepy.

I think that boiling down years of abuse by powerful coaches and doctors that is ignored by university officials to your homophobia is kind of sad.

Eh, while it's em2nought, I think it's still a valid point. I still have a problem with the group showers at the gym, even though when I lived in the Fraternity, we only had a multiple shower area.

Think also of the "plug-it-up" scene in Carrie, which had nothing to do with homophobia, yet was terrifying.

Being naked in a group shower area can feel very scary, especially if you already have body and other confidence issues, or are around people you're not sure you can trust. Which is true of just about everyone as they grow up.

Again, remember how all the girls tormented Carrie. That ganging up is a very real fear for a LOT of people, especially if you have ever been bullied.

You're at your most vulnerable and it can be very uncomfortable and scary even if one isn't homophobic.

That may be, but he literally "boiled down" decades of abuse to being creeped out in the showers. That's problematic whether the creepiness arises out of homophobia or body confidence issues or whatever. Perhaps I shouldn't assume that his cause was homophobia, but em hasn't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt in this area.

For me, it just caused me to think about my fears (well, issues) with showering in a group setting, and trying to evaluate whether it was homophobia. At my age and with my experience, I shouldn't, and yet I do, and I needed to take it out and try to analyze this irrational feeling rationally.

I still can't tell if a part of it is homobphobia or not. I like to think that I'm not homophobic, but attempting to separate that possible lizard-brain phobia from other lizard brain phobias isn't easy. Both that and the other fears/issues possibly associated aren't in and of themselves rational, which makes them difficult to analyze and separate out.

[McNutt]

Nothing inherently homophobic about not wanted to have a bunch of same-sex people see you naked.

Apparently you get 100% over it when you are a senior citizen and need to air dry in the locker room.

[ImLawBoy]

Nothing inherently homophobic about not wanted to have a bunch of same-sex people see you naked.

Apparently you get 100% over it when you are a senior citizen and need to air dry in the locker room.

Take out "same-sex" and I'd agree with you. If you don't want to be naked in group situations, that's totally cool. If you'd be fine in mixed gender or opposite gender, but have a problem with same gender - smells like homophobia to me.

[McNutt]

Nothing inherently homophobic about not wanted to have a bunch of same-sex people see you naked.

Apparently you get 100% over it when you are a senior citizen and need to air dry in the locker room.

Take out "same-sex" and I'd agree with you. If you don't want to be naked in group situations, that's totally cool. If you'd be fine in mixed gender or opposite gender, but have a problem with same gender - smells like homophobia to me.

I'm not sure I follow. I'm saying that if a guy doesn't want to be seen naked, even by other guys, it doesn't have to have anything to do with homophobia. That person might just have body issues and doesn't want ANYONE to be looking at them.

[ImLawBoy]

Nothing inherently homophobic about not wanted to have a bunch of same-sex people see you naked.

Apparently you get 100% over it when you are a senior citizen and need to air dry in the locker room.

Take out "same-sex" and I'd agree with you. If you don't want to be naked in group situations, that's totally cool. If you'd be fine in mixed gender or opposite gender, but have a problem with same gender - smells like homophobia to me.

I'm not sure I follow. I'm saying that if a guy doesn't want to be seen naked, even by other guys, it doesn't have to have anything to do with homophobia. That person might just have body issues and doesn't want ANYONE to be looking at them.

That I agree with. I'm saying that you need to take the "same sex" out of the equation to be truly free of potential homophobia. If you have to qualify the statement with "same sex", then that's an issue.

[McNutt]

But that was the original point to which I replied. It's not homophobic to not want to be seen naked in the gym showers. These showers are always same sex.

[ImLawBoy]

Nothing inherently homophobic about not wanted to have a bunch of same-sex people see you naked.

Potentially homophobic.

Nothing inherently homophobic about not wanted to have a bunch of people see you naked.

Not homophobic.

[McNutt]

"Boiling it down to a really basic idea regarding sports, I've always thought the taking a shower together at the gym "thing" was kind of creepy."

This was called a homophobic statement. My point was that you can feel uncomfortable being in a same-sex shower (aka gym shower) without homophobia being a factor. I'm stressing same sex because it's essential to my point.

I'm not agreeing with the poster, but am confirming that homophobia isn't necessarily a factor. You keep wanting to take out "same sex," but when is this person going to find themselves in a mixed sex shower?

[ImLawBoy]

That may be, but he literally "boiled down" decades of abuse to being creeped out in the showers. That's problematic whether the creepiness arises out of homophobia or body confidence issues or whatever. Perhaps I shouldn't assume that his cause was homophobia, but em hasn't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt in this area.

I mean, how many times do you expect me to say it?

[McNutt]

Again, I'm not defending him. Not at all. But that was where the shower/homophobia connection started which I was refuting the assumed connection.

[ImLawBoy]

Yes, and I had already acknowledged that there were potential other reasons (see quote above).

[McNutt]

But I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to Pyperkub who wondered if his anxiety was due to homophobia.

[ImLawBoy]

Well then I think we're done here.

[Pyperkub]

Nothing inherently homophobic about not wanted to have a bunch of same-sex people see you naked.

Apparently you get 100% over it when you are a senior citizen and need to air dry in the locker room.

Take out "same-sex" and I'd agree with you. If you don't want to be naked in group situations, that's totally cool. If you'd be fine in mixed gender or opposite gender, but have a problem with same gender - smells like homophobia to me.

Funny thing is that I'd probably be fine with a nude beach or something. Not sure if I just feel like I'd feel safer in such an environment, but it seems so. Maybe it being outside and the Ocean/Pool feeling like there's more places to escape if necessary than an indoor box with shower nozzles. Even skinny dipping in a pool doesn't engender the same issues. It could even just be that those experiences are/would be more voluntary than the shower option. As I mentioned, examining lizard brain reactions is weird.

I've never seen a dual-gender (multi-gender) shower however (probably didn't hang around the right sorts of places when I was the age for something like that...).

[LordMortis]

This doesn't seem to be much nationally but the way the UofM is trying to PR away Robert Anderson is beginning to get under my skin. The radio just read a side by side piece by Mitch Albom on Larry Nasser against his piece on Robert Anderson and my blood began to boil.

And Jim "I don't want to attack the victims, but..." Brandstatter can shut up any time now. I'd like to think I'm not part of the cancel culture but he seems to prove me wrong. I would fire him a in Blue and Maize minute.

This shit continues to peg 11 on my outrage meter and how common it appears to be only means I'm going to stroke out earlier in life.

[Lorini]

This doesn't seem to be much nationally but the way the UofM is trying to PR away Robert Anderson is beginning to get under my skin. The radio just read a side by side piece by Mitch Albom on Larry Nasser against his piece on Robert Anderson and my blood began to boil.

And Jim "I don't want to attack the victims, but..." Brandstatter can shut up any time now. I'd like to think I'm not part of the cancel culture but he seems to prove me wrong. I would fire him a in Blue and Maize minute.

This shit continues to peg 11 on my outrage meter and how common it appears to be only means I'm going to stroke out earlier in life.

Cancel culture has been around since the first hunter gatherer didn't bring back his kill like he was supposed to but cooked and ate it instead. Don't worry about being part of something that's just plain human.

[ImLawBoy]

Tear down the statue, rename the athletic facility.

[LawBeefaroni]

Tear down the statue, rename the athletic facility.

Canham's son was my track and cross country coach in high school. Great man.

That said, while I think DC Sr. was stopped by Bo and the boosters when it came to firing the doctor, I'm fine with renaming the Natorium. Would prefer not to, but fine if it happens.

Schembechler Hall? Got to go. Bo was like a god to me, a kid growing up in Ann Arbor. But fuck him for this. I have no problem discarding him.



The only one that would really be tough for me is Bob Ufer. Fortunately his legacy seems secure.

[Lorini]

Tear down the statue, rename the athletic facility.

Hey, what are your thoughts about the abuse scandal during Bo's time? I'm horrified to hear about that.

[ImLawBoy]

Those pretty much are my thoughts. Bo knew and actively covered things up. Take down his statue and rename Schembechler Hall.

I think the University will get there eventually, but they like to take their time (they only recently recommended renaming Yost Ice Area, named after notoriously racist former football coach Fielding Yost). They probably feel they need to ease into it so as not to piss off old school boosters.

[Pyperkub]

Redefining the process of making a "Michigan" Man? groan.

[Hrothgar]

ESPN has been pushing the story of rapist Todd Hodne at Penn State. It's chilling reading.