Is there a word for this?

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:04 am

I was discussing my recent trip to San Francisco with a coworker and mentioned that we rode the "Duck" while there. Coworker asked what the Duck was and I told her that it was the WWII amphibian vehicle and she said "Oh, so they call it a duck because ducks are amphibians?"

Leaving that aside, I explained that, no it was because the vehicle designation was DUKW and the soldiers just started calling them ducks based off of that.

Which brings me, in my rambling and roundabout way, to the reason for this post. Is there a word that means "a word based upon the phonetic pronunciation of an acronym?"

Examples:
Humvee based on HMMWV
Duck based on DUKW

Arcanis · Post by **Arcanis** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:08 am

Does SCUBA count?

Trent Steel · Post by **Trent Steel** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:11 am

FUBAR?

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:12 am

Good examples...

...that don't answer the question.

zinckiwi · Post by **zinckiwi** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:16 am

SCUBA is an acronym in its own right. I think what Brian's getting at is words *derived* from that type of acronym; say, if people called a set of SCUBA gear "a scoob" or something.

Not aware of any term to denote that, no

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:24 am

Brian wrote:I was discussing my recent trip to San Francisco with a coworker and mentioned that we rode the "Duck" while there. Coworker asked what the Duck was and I told her that it was the WWII amphibian vehicle and she said "Oh, so they call it a duck because ducks are amphibians?"

Leaving that aside, I explained that, no it was because the vehicle designation was DUKW and the soldiers just started calling them ducks based off of that.

Which brings me, in my rambling and roundabout way, to the reason for this post. Is there a word that means "a word based upon the phonetic pronunciation of an acronym?"

Examples:
Humvee based on HMMWV
Duck based on DUKW

Confused. Isn't an acronym the phonetic pronunciation of initials put together to form a word?

Unless you mean how Hummer is word based on HUM-V based on HMMWV.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:28 am

Can't help with the term, but Jeep is a good example. The acronym was GPV. Shortened to GP, shortened to the phonetic "Jeep."

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:31 am

LordMortis wrote:
Brian wrote:I was discussing my recent trip to San Francisco with a coworker and mentioned that we rode the "Duck" while there. Coworker asked what the Duck was and I told her that it was the WWII amphibian vehicle and she said "Oh, so they call it a duck because ducks are amphibians?"

Leaving that aside, I explained that, no it was because the vehicle designation was DUKW and the soldiers just started calling them ducks based off of that.

Which brings me, in my rambling and roundabout way, to the reason for this post. Is there a word that means "a word based upon the phonetic pronunciation of an acronym?"

Examples:
Humvee based on HMMWV
Duck based on DUKW
Confused. Isn't an acronym the phonetic pronunciation of initials put together to form a word?

Unless you mean how Hummer is word based on HUM-V based on HMMWV.

An acronym is just the initials. YMCA is an acronym, but you don't try to pronounce it as a word. Yimka? Yimsa?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:41 am

Right. An acronym is just initial letters combined to make a unwieldy term easier to use. If the acronym itself is pronounceable, then it does the job even better. And if the pronounceable acronym is itself a word that is thematically related or mnemonically useful, it's even better better.

Sometimes you even see names given in order to produce a meaningful acronym. Usually these are awkward enough to make you gag, as with the USA PATRIOT ("Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism") Act.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:44 am

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/acronym" target="_blank

a word formed from the initial letters or groups of letters of words in a set phrase or series of words, as Wac from Women's Army Corps, OPEC from Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, or loran from long-range navigation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism" target="_blank

Acronyms and initialisms are abbreviations formed from the initial components in a phrase or a word. These components may be individual letters (as in CEO) or parts of words (as in Benelux and Ameslan). There is no universal agreement on the precise definition of the various terms (see nomenclature) nor on written usage (see orthographic styling). In English, such abbreviations have historically had limited use, but have gained in popularity in recent years; they have been more common in certain other languages. As a type of word formation process, acronyms and initialisms are viewed as a subtype of blending.

While I've never heard of initialism, Wiki suggests what you are talking about a specific kind of acronym called initialism where the word formed is the letters strung together. The go to BBC a lot for this.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:54 am

Brian is asking if the transition from acronym to actual word (that specific process) has a term attached.

Like photosynthesis etc

Too slow on my part. Yes initialism is it. I couldn't remember that term. I think it was a rant from Penn at some point

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:09 am

Initialism might work.

Basically, I want to be able to say, "Duck is the [word] of the DUKW" should the need arise again to explain the amphibious vehicle .

So... "The Duck is the initialism of the DUKW which was the WWII amphibious vehicle based on the 2 1/2 ton truck and was used to deliver men and materiel to the beachheads during the invasion of Europe."

I guess that works.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:11 am

Now a days DUKW are good for carrying tourists out to the middle of a lake and sinking.

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:13 am

Continued from wiki:

The term acronym is the name for a word from the first letters of each word in a series of words (such as sonar, created from sound navigation and ranging).[1] Attestations for "Akronym" in German are known from 1921, and for "acronym" in English from 1940.[2] While the word abbreviation refers to any shortened form of a word or a phrase, some have used initialism or alphabetism to refer to an abbreviation formed simply from, and used simply as, a string of initials.[citation needed]
Although the term acronym is widely used to describe any abbreviation formed from initial letters,[3] most dictionaries define acronym to mean "a word" in its original sense,[4][5][6] while some include additional senses attributing to acronym the same meaning as that of initialism.[7][8][9] According to the first definition found in most dictionaries, examples of acronyms are NATO (/ˈneɪtoʊ/), scuba (/ˈskuːbə/), and radar (/ˈreɪdɑr/), while examples of initialisms are FBI (/ˌɛfˌbiːˈaɪ/) and HTML (/ˌeɪtʃˌtiːˌɛmˈɛl/).[4][8][10]
There is no agreement on what to call abbreviations whose pronunciation involves the combination of letter names and words, such as JPEG (/ˈdʒeɪpɛɡ/) and MS-DOS (/ˌɛmɛsˈdɒs/).

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:18 am

Then that leaves unanswered the establishment of words based on acronyms that don't form actual, pronouncable words like my first examples of HMMWV and DUKW.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:21 am

Maybe you could call it a "Derived Acronym"

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Humvee" target="_blank

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:28 am

Except Humvee is a word derived FROM an acronym and would not itself be a derived acronym.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:30 am

Brian wrote:Initialism might work.

Basically, I want to be able to say, "Duck is the [word] of the DUKW" should the need arise again to explain the amphibious vehicle .

So... "The Duck is the initialism of the DUKW which was the WWII amphibious vehicle based on the 2 1/2 ton truck and was used to deliver men and materiel to the beachheads during the invasion of Europe."

I guess that works.

Actually I think "initialism" is just for acronyms that don't form a pronouncable word. CIA and FBI are initialisms. SCUBA and LASER are not.

EDIT: Er, what Bakhtosh said.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:37 am

Brian wrote:Except Humvee is a word derived FROM an acronym and would not itself be a derived acronym.

Acronym Derivative?

silverjon · Post by **silverjon** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:39 am

Looking at the examples provided (Duck, Humvee, Jeep), there's no reference to a specific term. Wiki is usually pretty good for back-referencing terminology.

I think the closest thing you're going to get is "colloquialism derived from [explanation]". Colloquialism isn't very specific, but it's a good catch-all.

zinckiwi · Post by **zinckiwi** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:44 am

Colloquialism or neologism.

silverjon · Post by **silverjon** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:50 am

zinckiwi wrote:Colloquialism or neologism.

Brian's examples are far too widely used to be neologisms. They can start out that way, but I don't think you can refer to a word as a neologism forever.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:02 am

Brian wrote:Initialism might work.

Basically, I want to be able to say, "Duck is the [word] of the DUKW" should the need arise again to explain the amphibious vehicle .

I guess that works.

Hmm, not sure about that, as I think using that word would just confuse the person you are talking to (based on the reactions from this thread). I would bet that unless you were talking to a Noam Chomsky-level linguist, or perhaps some crossword or scrabble champion, they are not going to know what that word means if you try to use it in the future to help explain the phenomenon.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:06 am

Yeah, after Bakhtosh's post it made less sense.

Maybe we should band together and come up with a name for a word derived from an acronym that itself is not pronouncable as a word.

I vote for malopracronym.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:10 am

wdfaatiinpaaw

Or a Wadfatinpaw

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:17 am

I feel like there has to be a word for this already, but if not I'd propose dukwronym. That way you always an an example built right in to the word and it references the origins in this thread.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:41 am

As far as I can tell (duplicating everybody's research), it's still acronym, albeit with a special pronunciation.

Maybe we can name it "acronomism"

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:41 am

OmNomNomism?

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:08 pm

Brian is asking if the transition from acronym to actual word (that specific process) has a term attached.

So we are clear that IBM is an initialism, and SCUBA is an acronym. (I had been through this exact debate with a co-worker about a year ago, they insisted CFO was an acronym.)

If people suddenly started to spell SCUBA, scoobah - would that be anything other than just a transformation of the word. I guess I just mean that SCUBA is a word - it's a special type of word called an acronym - but words (and their spellings) are always in flux over time. It's a cool question - because it's the unique type of word that has real roots to an original spelling.

Something like DUKW reminds me of , (and there are probably much better examples, and DUKW may not even be an example, come to think of it) when an acronym is painfully made up of odd words, when they really just wanted that damn acronym in the first place. In that case, when the culture just starts calling them 'Ducks', it's almost like they are helping out this injured little awkward acronym out. (I mean, 'dukw' is nearly not an acroynm).

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:22 pm

Words also transform with use. Somewhere in there, a word that was originally an acronym becomes simply a noun. You can tell this happens when people stop ALL-CAPPING it.

A word like "Radar" is already there--few people care that RADAR originally stood for "Radio Detection and Ranging" any more than they care about the etymologies of "mortgage" or "assassin" when they use them. The word is the word, and acronyms are one way words get made.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:23 pm

LordMortis wrote:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/acronym

a word formed from the initial letters or groups of letters of words in a set phrase or series of words, as Wac from Women's Army Corps, OPEC from Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, or loran from long-range navigation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism" target="_blank

Acronyms and initialisms are abbreviations formed from the initial components in a phrase or a word. These components may be individual letters (as in CEO) or parts of words (as in Benelux and Ameslan). There is no universal agreement on the precise definition of the various terms (see nomenclature) nor on written usage (see orthographic styling). In English, such abbreviations have historically had limited use, but have gained in popularity in recent years; they have been more common in certain other languages. As a type of word formation process, acronyms and initialisms are viewed as a subtype of blending.
While I've never heard of initialism, Wiki suggests what you are talking about a specific kind of acronym called initialism where the word formed is the letters strung together. The go to BBC a lot for this.

This.

We have a couple of anal retention guys around here and if I hear them correct one more person about what is an initialism vs what is an acronym I may have to drown them in the sink. Working for defense, entire conversations occur that are nothing but acronyms and initialisms.

silverjon · Post by **silverjon** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:27 pm

Unagi wrote:Something like DUKW reminds me of , (and there are probably much better examples, and DUKW may not even be an example, come to think of it) when an acronym is painfully made up of odd words, when they really just wanted that damn acronym in the first place. In that case, when the culture just starts calling them 'Ducks', it's almost like they are helping out this injured little awkward acronym out. (I mean, 'dukw' is nearly not an acroynm).

From my flailing around in Wiki earlier, DUKW was just the designation of the vehicle, and not even a proper acronym *or* initialism because they're letter codes, not initials. "Duck" is effectively an easy-to-say nickname.

Also from flailing about in Wiki, what you're describing is a "backronym", where the letters come first and words are chosen to fit (AMBER Alert was a memorable example).

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:28 pm

Brian wrote:Except Humvee is a word derived FROM an acronym and would not itself be a derived acronym.

Then it must be an acronym derivative.

Or how about a derived acronym derivative.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:31 pm

I consider Humvee to be corrupted spelling of the original HMMWV's "pronunciation".

I revise my submission: acronymism.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:33 pm

Holman wrote:Words also transform with use. Somewhere in there, a word that was originally an acronym becomes simply a noun. You can tell this happens when people stop ALL-CAPPING it.

A word like "Radar" is already there--few people care that RADAR originally stood for "Radio Detection and Ranging" any more than they care about the etymologies of "mortgage" or "assassin" when they use them. The word is the word, and acronyms are one way words get made.

There you go Acrowords. Words derived from Acronyms.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:36 pm

I submit: "hackronym"

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:44 pm

anacryonym?
adacronym?
amblynym?

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Fri May 25, 2012 1:46 pm

onomatopoeia

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:36 pm

Unagi wrote:
Brian is asking if the transition from acronym to actual word (that specific process) has a term attached.
So we are clear that IBM is an initialism, and SCUBA is an acronym. (I had been through this exact debate with a co-worker about a year ago, they insisted CFO was an acronym.)

If people suddenly started to spell SCUBA, scoobah - would that be anything other than just a transformation of the word. I guess I just mean that SCUBA is a word - it's a special type of word called an acronym - but words (and their spellings) are always in flux over time. It's a cool question - because it's the unique type of word that has real roots to an original spelling.

Something like DUKW reminds me of , (and there are probably much better examples, and DUKW may not even be an example, come to think of it) when an acronym is painfully made up of odd words, when they really just wanted that damn acronym in the first place. In that case, when the culture just starts calling them 'Ducks', it's almost like they are helping out this injured little awkward acronym out. (I mean, 'dukw' is nearly not an acroynm).

Those are backronyms. Was just reading up on their (unfortunate) use in naming legislative acts.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:51 pm

Grundbergriff and Isgrumnur must both be on vacation...

Also I'm just guessing on the spelling of their names because I'm lazy.