The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

[Isgrimnur]

If I see the real news, I'l make sure I let Zax know to update the title.

[Carpet_pissr]

I wonder if that's an iBooks exclusive. Would rather have it on Kindle, but not sure I would plunk down anyway, just for the additional content. The additions DO sound enticing though - anything that helps in terms of references is welcome, IMO. Especially for first time readers.

[Isgrimnur]

Amazon has a Kindle page:

This title is not currently available for purchase

But it lists the release date as 2012.

[Smoove_B]

Congrats to his publisher for figuring out a way to kick the corpse of his novels and re-monetize them in a new way. I'm guessing someone just earned a nice bonus.

[Scuzz]

Why would anyone buy those?

[Jeff V]

Why would anyone buy those?

Same reason people buy extended editions of movies where they already own the half-assed versions, I suppose. If I was inclined to re-read the series (I heard a rumor once that some people do that), I'd probably buy it, mostly because I don't think I own all of the books anymore and I don't have them in digital form.

[Torfish]

I just want to know when will book 6 be done. A percentage complete or a release estimate from George would be nice.

[Isgrimnur]

This January's blog post mentions a Halloween deadline before the April premiere of Season 6 in April. The next update was that a year-end completion could have had it out before the end of Q1. So, at minimum, you're looking at a three-month lag time between completion and print.

[Scraper]

At this point I doubt I will buy it or read it prior to the series actually being finished. I finished the 5th book right after it's release and I honestly can't remember half the shit that has happened at this point. So if I'm going to re-read the entire series I at least want to know that I can get to the end.

[Isgrimnur]

I didn't read 4 until after 5 was available. I don't know that I'll change from that with 6 and 7.

[Scuzz]

At this point I doubt I will buy it or read it prior to the series actually being finished. I finished the 5th book right after it's release and I honestly can't remember half the shit that has happened at this point. So if I'm going to re-read the entire series I at least want to know that I can get to the end.

That is the conclusion I have come to. I will finish the series when GRRM finishes the series. I just wonder which of us will "finish" first though.

I doubt GRRM will ever complete this.

[Isgrimnur]

He's 68. Based on SSA Actuarial tables, he's sitting at a 2% chance of dying in the next year, and a life expectancy of 15.61 years.

[Jeff V]

He's 68. Based on SSA Actuarial tables, he's sitting at a 2% chance of dying in the next year, and a life expectancy of 15.61 years.

Those numbers appear to be that of the general population. I suspect a subset of data comparing only those with similar dimensions as GRRM would likely be lower.

[Isgrimnur]

Probably. But I didn't get his vitals and a history.

[Jeff V]

I'm just going by his picture. He doesn't cut a trim figure.

[Isgrimnur]

Oddly, living in New Mexico instead of New Jersey might actually hurt.

[Smoove_B]

Weird, right?

But seriously...he's never going to finish writing it. Any hope of that died when he gave the details of the story to HBO to film. Bank on it.

[Scuzz]

He's 68. Based on SSA Actuarial tables, he's sitting at a 2% chance of dying in the next year, and a life expectancy of 15.61 years.

Not enough time to finish 2 more books.

[Odin]

I just want to know when will book 6 be done. A percentage complete or a release estimate from George would be nice.

He tried that once, then he missed his predicted "deadline." By quite a lot, as I recall. He swore he'd never do it again, though as Isgrim points out, he kind of has done it a couple of times since. So far, he's always been wrong. I hadn't considered that the fire in his belly to finish the series might have been snuffed when he told the ending to the GoT guys. I've seen that happen myself, so it's certainly possible. If he's going to keep turning out books that take 10 years to write and are only half as good as the first three he wrote (in about a year a piece, I believe), then I'll actually be just as happy to get the GoT end of the story and leave it at that. He definitely lost his way after A Storm of Swords.

[Jeff V]

I'm reading The World of Ice and Fire right now, and I wonder if this "world" will be opened to other authors to set stories in after Martin dies. This book provides a historical framework -- I'm about 1/4 through and the scope and pacing of the book is such that the events in AGOT would be summarized in a few pages. Unless he expressly forbids it in his will, I imagine someone would complete ASOIAF if Martin died today; we can only hope a competent author is chosen for the task.

[Zaxxon]

Pretty sure he's ruled that out.

[Smoove_B]

Pretty sure he's ruled that out.

correct:

In 2013, while speaking in Australia, Martin was asked about the possibility of another author finishing his works. His response? “Not while I’m alive.” He expanded:

I don’t think my wife, if she survives me, will allow that either. But one thing that history has shown us is eventually these literary rights pass to grandchildren or collateral descendants, or people who didn’t actually know the writer and don’t care about his wishes. It’s just a cash cow to them. And then we get abominations to my mind like Scarlett, the Gone with the Wind sequel.

More specifically:

George cited what happened to J.R.R. Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings universe as an example of what he’d like to see happen to his legacy—J.R.R.’s son Christopher finished many of his father’s works but has never allowed another author to write in the Tolkien universe.

So there you go, George is totally fine with his children eventually finishing what he started.

[Odin]

So there you go, George is totally fine with his children eventually finishing what he started.

Of which he has none.

[Smoove_B]

[stessier]

At some point it will pass into the public domain and then it really won't matter what his wishes are.

[Jeff V]

So there you go, George is totally fine with his children eventually finishing what he started.

Of which he has none.

He's got 15.61 years to moving on that too. Unless doctors rule that his health is unsuitable for Viagara.

At some point it will pass into the public domain and then it really won't matter what his wishes are.

And we'll be dead so it won't matter to us either.

[stessier]

At some point it will pass into the public domain and then it really won't matter what his wishes are.

And we'll be dead so it won't matter to us either.

Maybe, maybe not. It's not unprecedented for copyright terms to be rolled back.

[Isgrimnur]

At least until Disney acquires it.

[Jeff V]

At some point it will pass into the public domain and then it really won't matter what his wishes are.

And we'll be dead so it won't matter to us either.

Maybe, maybe not. It's not unprecedented for copyright terms to be rolled back.

More likely they will be renewed as long as anyone cares about the property.

[stessier]

At some point it will pass into the public domain and then it really won't matter what his wishes are.

And we'll be dead so it won't matter to us either.

Maybe, maybe not. It's not unprecedented for copyright terms to be rolled back.

More likely they will be renewed as long as anyone cares about the property.

It's not something they can just "renew." It's life of the creator + 70 years right now. (Thanks Mickey!) To get it longer, they'd have to lobby Congress and get any change made retroactive. If that's going to happen, it's likely in the next few years (again, Thanks Mickey!).

[Isgrimnur]

In 1976, Congress authorized a major overhaul of the copyright system assuring Disney extended protection. Instead of the maximum of 56 years with extensions, individual authors were granted protection for their life plus an additional 50 years, (which was the norm in Europe). For works authored by corporations, the 1976 legislation also granted a retroactive extension for works published before the new system took effect. The maximum term for already-published works was lengthened from 56 years to 75 years pushing Mickey protection out to 2003. Anything published in 1922 or before was in the public domain. Anything after that may still be under copyright.

With only 5 years left on Mickey Mouse’s copyright term, Congress again changed the duration with the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act of 1998. This legislation lengthens copyrights for works created on or after January 1, 1978 to “life of the author plus 70 years,” and extends copyrights for corporate works to 95 years from the year of first publication, or 120 years from the year of creation, whichever expires first. That pushed Mickey’s copyright protection out to 2023.

[Jeff V]

I still expect that corporate interest will find a way; either loopholes in the current laws, or by changing the law to include such loopholes. I expect than an IP such as Mickey Mouse whereas each work containing that character receives a copyright will be deemed protected until 95 years after the last copyright granted - so if Disney, say, issues a children's book "Mickey Mouse vs. the Oompa Loompas" today, the copyright on the character would extend until next century.

You don't really see many copyrights that are actively commercially viable wind up in public domain. Personally, I'd like to see it change to something that needs to be renewed every couple of years (like domain name registration) and anything not explicitly renewed cast into the public domain.

[stessier]

I disagree. We grant copyright to allow creators control of their work so they can profit and provide an incentive for others to create. We do the same thing with patents. There is no reason there should be any difference. I'd prefer a "20 years or life of the creator, whichever is shorter" rule.

[Smoove_B]

Enough with the speculation, finally some real news:

Although George R.R. Martin himself has given assurance that the highly anticipated sequel to his legendary work is — without a shadow of doubt — imminent, he also admitted that his ties with current projects restrain his availability to finish the sequel to “A Song of Fire and Ice”.

Initial reports indicated that Winds of Winter may be out as early as 2017, but the series of successes that George R.R. Martin has had in many — if not all — of his recent projects has restricted the chances of this epic “A Song of Fire and Ice” sequel for a release date as early as next year.

[Jeff V]

I disagree. We grant copyright to allow creators control of their work so they can profit and provide an incentive for others to create. We do the same thing with patents. There is no reason there should be any difference. I'd prefer a "20 years or life of the creator, whichever is shorter" rule.

The thing is, nobody making buckets of money off an IP is going to support legislation that kills their cash cow. Instead, they will spend their buckets promoting the opposite.

Copyrights owned by individual creators should last the term of their life. Copyrights owned by heirs or corporations should require regular renewal at a cost - it's less likely corporations or heirs will pay regular fees to maintain rights on non-performing IP. If a company can keep something profitable and viable for more than a century, they should be able to do so without having to have the laws re-written every few decades. Releasing otherwise dormant properties to public domain would, if anything, spur creativity, although in most cases nobody would really care.

[LordMortis]

Enough with the speculation, finally some real news:

Although George R.R. Martin himself has given assurance that the highly anticipated sequel to his legendary work is — without a shadow of doubt — imminent, he also admitted that his ties with current projects restrain his availability to finish the sequel to “A Song of Fire and Ice”.

Initial reports indicated that Winds of Winter may be out as early as 2017, but the series of successes that George R.R. Martin has had in many — if not all — of his recent projects has restricted the chances of this epic “A Song of Fire and Ice” sequel for a release date as early as next year.

Does this mean I'm going to get a 7 year run of Sandkings on HBO?

[Jeff V]

Enough with the speculation, finally some real news:

Although George R.R. Martin himself has given assurance that the highly anticipated sequel to his legendary work is — without a shadow of doubt — imminent, he also admitted that his ties with current projects restrain his availability to finish the sequel to “A Song of Fire and Ice”.

Initial reports indicated that Winds of Winter may be out as early as 2017, but the series of successes that George R.R. Martin has had in many — if not all — of his recent projects has restricted the chances of this epic “A Song of Fire and Ice” sequel for a release date as early as next year.

"A Song of Fire and Ice" is the bizzaro-world opposite of "A Song of Ice and Fire." In it, Ned Stark chokes the life out of Joffrey after the incident involving Sansa's wolf and the "red wedding" is remembered for the lavish abundance of roses.

It was, I believe, written by svelte young man named Martin R.R. George (Marty G to his friends).

[Isgrimnur]

[pr0ner]

[Default]

As long as he doesn't kill off Darryl.