Cops behaving badly

[Paingod]

Why did she call the cops and not the paramedics? Or did she just call 911?

She called 911. I would assume people don't have separate numbers for EMT, police, fire, etc.

I live in a podunk nowhere, and we still have different non-emergency numbers for each branch of services.

A lot of people just call 911 by default, hoping that whatever the problem is will be solved by the dispatcher. The dispatcher, though, isn't there and simply sends the highest response available. If there's even a whiff of danger EMT's won't go in until it's been made safe by police.

I'm more and more of the mind that if the response is always going to be to send a squad car, that car needs to be half cop and half social worker. If they can afford armored personnel carriers and full tactical assault gear, the police have the funds for it.

[LawBeefaroni]

Sue asked for a CIT squad. Police response after the incident was that all officers are "CIT trained." That's a bullshit answer.

[Paingod]

Police response after the incident was that all officers are "CIT trained."

If it's true, the level of training needs to be questioned. A 30-minute webinar every 5 years can be called "training"...

[dbt1949]

Right there on page one of the CIT manual...."if a young boy with emotional problems gives you trouble you are to gun him down".

[Brian]

Right there on page one of the CIT manual...."if a young boy with emotional problems gives you trouble you are to gun him down".

Ah, I think that's where the confusion comes from.
Remember, the manuals were written quite a few years ago so in this context "boy" means "any black man of color" see also: Negro.

(I really hope I shouldn't need the sarcasm font here.)

[LawBeefaroni]

Police response after the incident was that all officers are "CIT trained."

If it's true, the level of training needs to be questioned. A 30-minute webinar every 5 years can be called "training"...

Yeah, that was my point in the other thread. They're getting around the want/need for BH providers by "training" Police officers in BH. It's not the same thing and not adequate. I have my doubts that a psychologist or even LCSW in every car is feasible but have no problem seeing it attempted. Let's see some data and find out.

[Paingod]

Let's see some data and find out.

Data is one of the things the police unions fear and will fight to prevent. Mold hates sunlight.

[Jaymann]

To the man who has only a gun every problem looks like a fleeing criminal.

[Freyland]

Right there on page one of the CIT manual...."if a young boy with emotional problems gives you trouble you are to gun him down".

Ah, I think that's where the confusion comes from.
Remember, the manuals were written quite a few years ago so in this context "boy" means "any black man of color" see also: Negro.

(I really hope I shouldn't need the sarcasm font here.)

Just in case this post confused anyone who didn't read the article, the boy in question is not black.

[Lorini]

Doesn't matter. Disabled people matter, mentally ill people matter, and when you're trying to get help in a critical situation you need help. And if the police can't help, they should not show up.

[Paingod]

Doesn't matter. Disabled people matter, mentally ill people matter, and when you're trying to get help in a critical situation you need help. And if the police can't help, they should not show up.

I think the problem here is that they sent a hammer because someone though there might be a nail, but wasn't sure. Then the hammer hit the window to try and clean it. It's more of the same with either 911 not sending the right tools for the job or simply being given only hammers for every job. It's a textbook case for defund/reform.

I don't think this is the second, or third, or fourth time we've heard a similar story where police are called specifically to help someone in a mental crisis and they respond with bullets.

The most insane one I think I had read about was where there was a social worker right there, trying to calm things down and the police simply decided that wasn't good enough and ended up shooting the social worker in the leg.

When a 23-year-old autistic man carrying a toy truck wandered from a mental health center out into the street Monday, a worker there named Charles Kinsey went to retrieve him.

A few minutes later the autistic man was still sitting cross-legged blocking the roadway while playing with the small, rectangular white toy. And Kinsey was prone on the ground next to him — a bullet from an assault rifle fired by a police officer having struck his leg.

“He throws his hands up in the air and says, ‘Don’t shoot me.’ They say lie on the ground, so he does,” Kinsey’s attorney Hilton Napoleon said Wednesday. “He’s on his back with his hands in the air trying to convince the other guy to lie down. It doesn’t make any sense.”

The video, taken before the officer fired his weapon, shows Kinsey on his back with his hands in the air telling police he didn’t have a weapon and asking them not to fire. At one point the autistic man appears to yell at Kinsey to shut up. A second brief video shows officers who are carrying rifles physically patting down Kinsey and the autistic man while they are lying on the ground.

Kinsey said when he asked the officer why he fired his weapon, the cop responded, “I don’t know.”

By Wednesday, North Miami police hadn’t offered much of an explanation. Assistant Police Chief Neal Cuevas said the investigation has been turned over to the Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office.

[Freyland]

Doesn't matter. Disabled people matter, mentally ill people matter, and when you're trying to get help in a critical situation you need help. And if the police can't help, they should not show up.

Totally agree with your post, except it does matter to keep the narrative on track with the story being discussed. As noted, was just clarifying.

[Brian]

Right there on page one of the CIT manual...."if a young boy with emotional problems gives you trouble you are to gun him down".

Ah, I think that's where the confusion comes from.
Remember, the manuals were written quite a few years ago so in this context "boy" means "any black man of color" see also: Negro.

(I really hope I shouldn't need the sarcasm font here.)

Just in case this post confused anyone who didn't read the article, the boy in question is not black.

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse anybody. I thought it was pretty straightforward.

"Boy" being a frequent term used derogitorily by racists when addressing black men coupled with the police having an abominable record in their dealings with the black citizens vs white in that, all too often, the cops will just shoot a black person (with apparent impunity) while going to sometimes extraordinary steps to not shoot a white person.

[dbt1949]

We have sarcasm fonts?

[Z-Corn]

No, we don't have a sarcasm font. Why would we?

[Paingod]

I tHoUgHt ThIs WaS tHe SaRcAsM fOnT.

[stessier]

I tHoUgHt ThIs WaS tHe SaRcAsM fOnT.

Close - that's serial killer.

[$iljanus]

Doesn't matter. Disabled people matter, mentally ill people matter, and when you're trying to get help in a critical situation you need help. And if the police can't help, they should not show up.

I'm heavily involved in my church's special needs ministry which ministers to families that attend our church and have a special needs child. We either have specialized programming for those children or we facilitate trying to integrate them into the regular Sunday school class with support. Around the time of yet another police shooting we were concerned about how emergency personnel, especially police officers would react if the church had to be evacuated and there was an interaction between one of our students and the police. We have two African-American students who are in their teens and can be somewhat excitable under stress. One of the students is pretty tall and muscular, a gentle giant, but if there was an evacuation we would need to be extra patient with him. Our fear is that if he wasn't compliant due to overstimulation or an unfamiliar stranger barking instructions to him there would be a misunderstanding and, well, we didn't dance around our fear that he would be shot or tasered. Already there can be an issue with law enforcement being ill equipped to handle someone with special needs under stress. But when you add in being black, and being tall, and being large you become very frightened for them.

We started by having lanyards for all our students to wear during an evacuation outlining their status but it's not guaranteed that we would be able to get one on a child as we were leaving the building and in a situation there's no guarantee it would even be read. It was more for if the student were to be separated during evacuation. We also wanted to talk with the local PD about our program to let them know that we had special needs children attending our church. Then our ministry director had to move due to a job relocation, I took the job for a short while then had to help a new person get up to speed in the position. Was meaning to get back to talking with the local PD but then Covid-19 hit. We're not scheduled to have people physically back in church until Jan but I figured it was a good time to shore up our protocols on evacuating our special needs kids and having a conversation with the police department as to what kind of training they have in regards to dealing with people with special needs. We tried talking to our church's security head pre-covid who has good intentions but I think put a bit more trust in our police acting appropriately. I don't see our town police abusing their power but with the recent conversations we've been having about race I think I'll be in a better position to argue that we need to have some dialogue with the police department about our special needs population and ask about the type of training they have. At the very least suggest that they let us take the lead with the child.

Not meaning to be melodramatic, but I will put myself in front of one our students if it will make an officer think twice about taking the shot (and praying mightily that it wouldn't come to that). Or he might take the shot anyway. But I would rather engage in a constructive discussion beforehand and avoid all such unpleasantness.

[dbt1949]

I hear a lot of police unions saying how police officers were trained to do these misdeeds they get caught doing.
Gillions of people were in the military and taught to kill. Should it be okay for them to start killing civilians?
I know that's extreme but just because you were taught to do something doesn't make it right.

[Pyperkub]

Private Prisons run by ICE (cops-adjacent?):

Several legal advocacy groups on Monday filed a whistleblower complaint on behalf of a nurse at an Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) detention center documenting “jarring medical neglect” within the facility, including a refusal to test detainees for the novel coronavirus and an exorbitant rate of hysterectomies being performed on immigrant women...

...“Recently, a detained immigrant told Project South that she talked to five different women detained at ICDC between October and December 2019 who had a hysterectomy done,” the complaint stated. “When she talked to them about the surgery, the women ‘reacted confused when explaining why they had one done.’ The woman told Project South that it was as though the women were ‘trying to tell themselves it’s going to be OK.’”

“When I met all these women who had had surgeries, I thought this was like an experimental concentration camp. It was like they’re experimenting with our bodies,” the detainee said.

According to Wooten, ICDC consistently used a particular gynecologist – outside the facility – who almost always opted to remove all or part of the uterus of his female detainee patients.

“Everybody he sees has a hysterectomy—just about everybody,” Wooten said, adding that, “everybody’s uterus cannot be that bad.”

[Pyperkub]

As usual, Sheriff's Depts seem to be the worst offenders - steak dinners for killing a man with Tasers - black of course.

Williamson County sheriff’s office leaders rewarded deputies who used force on the job with steakhouse gift cards, according to two former employees, one of whom made the admission to Texas Rangers investigating the agency’s aggressive tactics.

Among the deputies who received gift cards to places such as Logan’s Roadhouse were J.J. Johnson and Zach Camden, the officers involved in the March 2019 death of Javier Ambler II. Officers used their Tasers on the Black 40-year-old father four times as he gasped that he had a heart condition and could not breathe.

[Pyperkub]

There are enough questions/inconsistencies here that this operation can at least be construed as a federal hit.

It was Reinoehl’s fifth day on the run. Hours earlier, prosecutors in Portland, Oregon, had charged the self-described antifascism activist with second-degree murder in the Aug. 29 shooting death of Patriot Prayer supporter Aaron “Jay” Danielson, and a team of federal fugitive hunters armed with an arrest warrant gathered to plan a takedown at the nearby Lacey Police Department.

At about 6:40 p.m., two silver SUVs gunned toward Reinoehl, tires squealing as they skidded to a stop in front of his VW, pinning his car in. Deputized U.S. marshals burst from the vehicles aiming military rifles at him. The official line is that Reinoehl jumped out of his car, his hand on the .380-caliber pistol in his pocket, defying a shouted command: “Stop! Police!”

What happened next remains unclear, even among law enforcement officials who participated.

One deputy U.S. marshal told investigators with the Thurston County sheriff’s office that Reinoehl pointed a gun at him. Another deputy marshal told detectives that Reinoehl had his hand on his pistol and was in the process of pulling the gun out of his pocket when officers fired. The gun was in Reinoehl’s right front pants pocket when detectives recovered it.

Civilian eyewitnesses interviewed by Oregon Public Broadcasting and ProPublica and other public statements offer similarly inconsistent and sometimes conflicting recollections. They agree that they heard no warning from federal agents, and saw no flashing lights that indicated the arrival of law enforcement, just a fusillade that one neighbor likened to a scene out of the video game Call of Duty.

[Little Raven]

Except all the shooters are local cops. Yes, they had been "deputized" as part of a Federal Task Force, but they're not really "Feds."

The shots were fired by two Pierce County sheriff’s deputies, a Lakewood police officer and a Washington State Department of Corrections employee — all deputized by the U.S. Marshals Service and serving on a Tacoma-based fugitive task force, a common and standard procedure among local-federal partnerships.

That doesn't mean they weren't gunning for Reinoehl, of course. I don't think he had any friends among local law enforcement, and from what I've read, the local boys are even MORE likely to be in bed with the Proud Boys than the guys from DC.

[Pyperkub]

Except all the shooters are local cops. Yes, they had been "deputized" as part of a Federal Task Force, but they're not really "Feds."

The shots were fired by two Pierce County sheriff’s deputies, a Lakewood police officer and a Washington State Department of Corrections employee — all deputized by the U.S. Marshals Service and serving on a Tacoma-based fugitive task force, a common and standard procedure among local-federal partnerships.

That doesn't mean they weren't gunning for Reinoehl, of course. I don't think he had any friends among local law enforcement, and from what I've read, the local boys are even MORE likely to be in bed with the Proud Boys than the guys from DC.

Per the President, it was a Hit by his Death Squad.

Trump: We sent in the US Marshals, took 15 minutes and it was over... They knew who he was, they didn’t want to arrest him and 15 minutes that ended

[Blackhawk]

Is that a confession, Mr. Trump?

[Little Raven]

Per the President, it was a Hit by his Death Squad.

I don't want to inject too much R&P into EBG...but...well, there's no nice way to say this.

President Trump says things that are not true.

With disturbing frequency, in fact. That doesn't mean this wasn't a Federal hit, of course, but I also wouldn't take it as evidence that it was. Trump says all kinds of things with absolutely no basis in fact.

It's possible that we're mostly debating semantics. If what you mean by "Federal hit" is "Guys who were temporarily deputized as Federal Marshals went gunning for Reinoehl with no real intention of taking him alive," then, yeah, that's certainly a reasonable hypothesis. But I confess that when I hear the phrase "Federal hit," I tend to think more "Someone in DC decided this guy had to die, and dispatched agents to make sure it happened" and THAT seems pretty unlikely to me. Not because I have any illusions about the virtue of our Federal Government, but because Reinoehl was a total nobody who appeared to have no higher ambitions than "protesting" on the streets of Portland. If he were an Antifa organizer, or a major black bloc player, or even an investigative journalist...then, maybe. But he wasn't any of those things as far as we know. He was a local troublemaker who got especially shooty one night. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing DC would normally care about.

[Pyperkub]

School Resource Issues think they are cops...

When the officer replied negatively, Waits responded:

“You know my 14-year-old niece, I’ll put it that way. That you’ve been texting for a couple of months.”

“You know her? The one you want sexy bikini pictures from?”

“The one you want to wrestle and pin down at her house when her mother’s gone?”

“Do I need to pull up the text? I’ve got her phone right here. So what are we going to do about this?”

Florida, of course.

[Lorini]

Piece of shit.

[Paingod]

Cops standing by and giving bounty hunters free reign to conduct an illegal search? I hope this pays well for the home owner and lots of hands get burned.

[malchior]

Ah the usual statement that the police saw no policy/procedure problem. Good luck getting that to hold up when you have dumbass #1 and #2 talking about how they have no idea who is committing a home invasion. Also, the clip of the supervisor making a direct admission that they messed up in an un-official channel. Also, that bail bond company better have good insurance because they are paying.

[Isgrimnur]

And they crossed state lines. Any charges could become federal.

[Isgrimnur]

AP News

One of two police officers accused of pepper-spraying and pointing their guns at a Black Army officer during a traffic stop has since been fired, a Virginia town announced late Sunday, hours after the governor called for an independent investigation into the case.

The town of Windsor said in a statement that it joined calls from election officials, including Gov. Ralph Northam, in requesting an investigation by Virginia State Police into the December 2020 encounter in which two Windsor officers were accused of drawing their guns, pointing them at U.S. Army second lieutenant Caron Nazario and using a slang term to suggest he was facing execution.

Nazario, who is Black and Latino, was also pepper-sprayed and knocked to the ground by the officers, Joe Gutierrez and Daniel Crocker, according to the lawsuit he filed earlier this month against them.

[dbt1949]

I don't think the cops are going to get away with this one.

[Kraken]

[Kurth]

Trevor Noah nailed it.

[malchior]

Trevor Noah nailed it.

+1. Such a sharp way of explaining the absurdity throughout the encounter.

[Kraken]

Trevor Noah nailed it.

+1. Such a sharp way of explaining the absurdity throughout the encounter.

He's been a consistently clear voice for BLM since the Floyd murder. I think he's a better commentator than comedian.

[TheMix]

Trevor Noah nailed it.

+1. Such a sharp way of explaining the absurdity throughout the encounter.

He's been a consistently clear voice for BLM since the Floyd murder. I think he's a better commentator than comedian.

I think you could easily argue that his standup is essentially commentary with humor thrown in. So.... I agree.

[dbt1949]

Just like his predecessor.

[Pyperkub]

Police response after the incident was that all officers are "CIT trained."

If it's true, the level of training needs to be questioned. A 30-minute webinar every 5 years can be called "training"...

Yeah, that was my point in the other thread. They're getting around the want/need for BH providers by "training" Police officers in BH. It's not the same thing and not adequate. I have my doubts that a psychologist or even LCSW in every car is feasible but have no problem seeing it attempted. Let's see some data and find out.

Here's some data:

One shift however is where the killings are taking place. Police violence is dropping in major urban areas, but it is rising in suburban and rural areas. This might indicate that reforms and training are having an effect, but that we need to do more work outside of the cities as well.