[Streaming] Max (né HBO Max)

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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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I love Glove and Boots!


Snyder article.
“A lot of the restoration [was] to put a lot of the big squares back,” Snyder said at JusticeCon. “Superheroes tend to be, as figures, they tend to be less horizontal. Maybe Superman when he’s flying. But when he’s standing, he’s more of a vertical. Everything is composed and shot that way, and a lot of the restoration is sort of trying to put that back.”

...

“Am I a provocateur?” Snyder asked out loud. “A little bit.”

It's like poetry. They rhyme.

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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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I get his reasons.

I think his reasons are bull. It would be like if the next Star Wars film was shot in a triangle because (vague artistic reasons.)
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

Post by Sudy »

So I've watched most of the second hour through the end of part 3, and I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm kind of enjoying it. I'm remembering some of the things I actually liked about the original, and the fact that everything's more fleshed out kind of makes up for the fact we got the team-up movie before half its characters had been introduced. (Though Snyder's theatrical cut obviously wouldn't have been four hours.) The things that initially bothered me are still there, but a lot of the new footage is interesting to watch. Steppenwolf actually has some depth now, even if his design is still cartoony. Snyder's slow-motion silliness actually kind of works with the Flash. I've never been a Cyborg fan and still am not (I think I find the father storyline drags, especially as I've experienced it again since then in Doom Patrol). But the epic backstory stuff actually works here. And as much as the thought causes me to roll my eyes, I really can see some of these scenes as comic panels.

In Aquaman, did they have to constantly create pockets of air to be able to speak underwater? I don't remember that. I'm guessing if it was cut from Justice League, Wan was free to axe it from his film.

Lois makes a brief appearance at the 75-minute mark, otherwise we still haven't seen her by the end of part 3.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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I've watched it all. It's definitely too long at 4 hours but I'm glad I got to see it. Quite a bit better than what Joss Whedon hacked it into.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

Post by Sudy »

Finished. So, yeah. It's watchable if you have the patience to get through the stuff you've already seen that you may not have liked. I wouldn't say the last few hours go by quickly, but it actually feels like little happens considering the amount of build-up. By that, I don't mean it's uneventful. Just that I remember most of these beats from the original cut, up until the ending. The ending is definitely very different in places, though I don't know if it's "better". But if Snyder's universe had continued, whatever would have made it into his presumably 3-hour theatrical version definitely would have served as a much better set-up for whatever would have come next.

- One of my problems (from the original as well, but made worse by the drawn out plot in this version) is that the mother boxes are poorly explained. Perhaps this is less of an issue for those who know them from the comics or other DC iterations, but here they seem to be "everything" boxes, and the audience has no reference for the stakes during the climax. "Victor, going inside the unity could kill you! Barry, you're going to have to generate a supercharge and move faster than you ever have before!" WTF does any of this actually mean? These characters and devices have been dropped on us for the first time rather than having been built up over multiple films/episodes/issues, so it just feels like a shallow plot device.
Spoiler:
- I actually liked/was OK with the Barry turning-back-time bit. It made sense in-universe, was adequately foreshadowed, and wasn't overplayed. That wasn't in the original, was it? Or was it? I remember Victor getting ripped in half in the original, and that doesn't happen in this version. I don't recall how they undid that, either.
- Functionally, I can't really tell the difference between the design of all these grey demon-like villains. I'm sure we'd have gotten to know more about Darkseid and DeSaad, but at this point it just feels like Evilguy 1, 2, and 3.
- The second-to-last epilogue scene (set in the future) is by far the most interesting thing in the film. I'd pay to watch the follow-up to that, even though it would probably be disappointing.

- Something I just read on Wikipedia suggests a sequel could still be made based on the success of this cut. That seems... unlikely. And not a good idea. But if it happens, I'd try to go into it with an open mind.


Should you watch it? If you have a spare four hours and don't have zero expectations, sure. But I suspect half the fun is doing so now while everyone's talking about it. Beyond that, this is probably a dead end. It's not even like watching a trainwreck. It's just watching a boring old train ride that goes nowhere. For four hours. But trains can be kinda cool.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

Post by Blackhawk »

Mother boxes, fwiw, are sentient super-computers that have one finger in creation itself, making them capable of almost anything, from controlling evolution and physics to raising the dead. One description I remember reading was that they're essentially a computer interface between man and God.

Assuming Snyder kept any of that, of course.
"Victor, going inside the unity could kill you! Barry, you're going to have to generate a supercharge and move faster than you ever have before!" WTF does any of this actually mean?
The same thing as "Realign the EPS conduits to turn the forward deflector array into a giant tachyon emitter!"
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

Post by Sudy »

Yup.

And here are spoilers for what Snyder's plan for the rest of the series would have been. Definitely some interesting tidbits, but also feels both undeserved and like a bit of a retread. And possibly too similar to Marvel's current grand finale.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

Post by Blackhawk »

Oh, man. I was hoping the plan was that Batman would finally kiss a girl and the whole world would go from black and white to color.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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Zack Snyder wrote:“When I made the film originally, it was part of a five-part trilogy,” Snyder told Vanity Fair.
:doh:

Gotta love those five part trilogies. They're so much longer than regular trilogies!
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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YellowKing wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:58 am
Zack Snyder wrote:“When I made the film originally, it was part of a five-part trilogy,” Snyder told Vanity Fair.
:doh:

Gotta love those five part trilogies. They're so much longer than regular trilogies!
I believe my copy of So Long and Thanks for All the Fish has "The fifth volume in the increasingly inaccurately titled Hitchhiker's Trilogy!" on the dust jacket.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

Post by YellowKing »

In all fairness I think what he was trying to say was that Justice League would be a trilogy, which alongside Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman makes a 5-part story, but it's fun picking on him.

I'm watching the movie now so will have impressions later today. Definitely lots of slo-mo. I wonder if they sped that up if they could have cut this to about 90 minutes.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

Post by Sudy »

Wow, my brain didn't realize at all that Steppenwolf was completely redesigned. I mean, his appearance. I think the character design of the original was more realistic, but the CGI still made it look cartoony. The new design is less human-like, yet I really, really like it. Perhaps because they make the character more pathetic and relatable, and you can really see the emotion in his features. His armour is incredibly stupid, but also really cool.

What I'm reading suggests that far more was changed than I picked up on. But that's partially because I found the original so unmemorable. The stuff I remember is often the stuff I didn't like, that hasn't changed.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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Blackhawk wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:32 am Mother boxes, fwiw, are sentient super-computers that have one finger in creation itself, making them capable of almost anything, from controlling evolution and physics to raising the dead. One description I remember reading was that they're essentially a computer interface between man and God.

Assuming Snyder kept any of that, of course.
"Victor, going inside the unity could kill you! Barry, you're going to have to generate a supercharge and move faster than you ever have before!" WTF does any of this actually mean?
The same thing as "Realign the EPS conduits to turn the forward deflector array into a giant tachyon emitter!"
Ah, thanks for translating that gibberish into something we can understand. Why didn't he just say that to begin with? :x
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

Post by Sudy »

I mean, most of the explanation of the mother boxes is in the movie... and I've read that there's definitely more than in the original cut. So maybe the majority of my gripe is how their introduction in this universe came out of nowhere, and my problem is with the mythology itself. I get that they're these god devices that can do almost anything by design; but the rules just aren't clear. Therefore the stakes seem fake, or at least impenetrable. I believe the scene with Victor "inside" the unity at the end is new, but it just comes off as metaphysical sci-fi/fantasy gibberish. It looks cool though.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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Sudy wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:42 am I mean, most of the explanation of the mother boxes is in the movie... and I've read that there's definitely more than in the original cut. So maybe the majority of my gripe is how their introduction in this universe came out of nowhere, and my problem is with the mythology itself. I get that they're these god devices that can do almost anything by design; but the rules just aren't clear. Therefore the stakes seem fake, or at least impenetrable. I believe the scene with Victor "inside" the unity at the end is new, but it just comes off as metaphysical sci-fi/fantasy gibberish. It looks cool though.
They were first introduced in Batman vs Superman, but they weren't given much explanation there.

Also, don't overanalyze MacGuffins too much!
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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I hear you, but I would argue the mother boxes are more than MacGuffins. They begin as that, but they become something much more. We need to know the rules to appreciate the stakes.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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I'm 3 hours in and to be honest, I'm digging it.
Is there filler? Absolutely.
Is it still an enjoyable movie? Absolutely?
Does it feel like a 4 hour movie? Not really. Not as much as I thought it would.

I like that some of the characters are more fleshed out.
Interested to see how it wraps up, but so far, I like it.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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I haven't seen the new cut yet. I have to wait for the family to be ready (unless I want to watch it twice, which I'm not sure about.)

FWIW, the mother boxes aren't really defined in the comics, either. They're Important Things that do whatever the plot requires. Sometimes they're pure McGuffins, other times they actually serve a function. It's made pretty clear that nobody in the DC universe itself really understands them, either, although they're almost always benevolent (unlike father boxes - no idea if those show up or not.) They usually bond to a single user and take care of (mother) them. I will say that the giant cenobite boxes aren't consistent with comics, where they're usually (not always) rectangle, and about the size of a paperback. They feature quite a few times in Young Justice and the old animated series.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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Mother Boxes play a pretty big part in the Young Justice animated series. Initially they were primarily a way to "boom tube" teleport all over the place, but they eventually turned into full fledged computers and then sentient beings with almost god like power.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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question, is this a limited time thing on HBOMAX. I want to show Ethan the other movies first but if it's only out for a month or two then I might just have to bite the bullet.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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I think it's supposed to be there permanently. This isn't like the joint theatrical/online releases they're doing with Warner Bros. movies this year, since this version isn't being released to theaters. (And those WB movies will return to HBOmax eventually, it's just the initial release that is only 30 days.)
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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cnet suggests there's no limit, which would make sense.

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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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naednek wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:07 pm question, is this a limited time thing on HBOMAX. I want to show Ethan the other movies first but if it's only out for a month or two then I might just have to bite the bullet.
It (and the ultimate version of Batman v Superman) are rated R if that makes any difference to you showing them to him.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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great! We're watching the batman movies ( the 90's ). Is it concerning that my 8 year old daughterthought the George Clooney close up of his butt in the bat suit was funny and that she liked it? :shock:


Trying to decide if we should skip the newer batmans. Can't remember if it's a bit much for a 11 year old and 8 year old. They've seen all the marvel movies, but the new batman is darker.

We might skip that and move on to the Superman vs batman stuff.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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naednek wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:27 pm great! We're watching the batman movies ( the 90's ). Is it concerning that my 8 year old daughterthought the George Clooney close up of his butt in the bat suit was funny and that she liked it? :shock:


Trying to decide if we should skip the newer batmans. Can't remember if it's a bit much for a 11 year old and 8 year old. They've seen all the marvel movies, but the new batman is darker.

We might skip that and move on to the Superman vs batman stuff.
If anything, I'd say skip the Superman vs Batman stuff if you're looking to avoid darker tones. Heck, I'd say you want to skip anything Snyder related if you're trying to avoid that. The Nolan Batmans weren't as dark as Snyder's stuff. They were more along the lines of a thoughtful action film franchise where the psychology of crime and justice were examined. The violence was almost secondary. They might end up being too boring for youngsters, but I wouldn't worry about them having nightmares, I don't think.

But more importantly, Nolan's Batman wouldn't kill. Snyder's Batman LOVES to kill...he even mounts .50 caliber machine guns on the Batmobile for Sunday drives.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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hepcat wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:30 pm
naednek wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:27 pm great! We're watching the batman movies ( the 90's ). Is it concerning that my 8 year old daughterthought the George Clooney close up of his butt in the bat suit was funny and that she liked it? :shock:


Trying to decide if we should skip the newer batmans. Can't remember if it's a bit much for a 11 year old and 8 year old. They've seen all the marvel movies, but the new batman is darker.

We might skip that and move on to the Superman vs batman stuff.
If anything, I'd say skip the Superman vs Batman stuff if you're looking to avoid darker tones. Heck, I'd say you want to skip anything Snyder related if you're trying to avoid that. The Nolan Batmans weren't as dark as Snyder's stuff. They were more along the lines of a thoughtful action film franchise where the psychology of crime and justice were examined. The violence was almost secondary. They might end up being too boring for youngsters, but I wouldn't worry about them having nightmares, I don't think.

But more importantly, Nolan's Batman wouldn't kill. Snyder's Batman LOVES to kill...he even mounts .50 caliber machine guns on the Batmobile for Sunday drives.
ya it's been a long time since I've seen Snyder's movies. I know I didn't like them much.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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Heck, Snyder's Batman even friggin' brands criminals so they have to deal with encountering him for the rest of their lives.

Okay...okay...I'm going all Blackhawk now on Snyder. Time to take a deep breath....serenity now....SERENITY NOW!
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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I wouldn't show the Nolan trilogy to an 8 year old. The 11 year old would depend on what I thought they could handle. Neither of my girls would have been able to take The Dark Knight.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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Other than some of the Scarecrow scenes, I can't think of a single thing that isn't a pale shadow of the insane violence and darkness of Snyder's versions. There's a reason Nolan's Batmans had no issue getting a PG-13 rating across the board, while Snyder's director's cuts get a solid R.

Or are you saying you wouldn't show either to your kids? I mean, at their heart they're still both movies about people fighting criminals who can be scary. It's just that Snyder does it with horror movie aesthetics.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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There are a few F-bombs in the Snyder cut and the violence is definitely heavier. But I wouldn't say it's worse than, say, LOTR-level. I'd probably have a bigger problem with the heroes' lack of restraint than the actual depiction of violence, which is mostly visited upon the monstrous. I don't have kids; for an eight-year-old, I dunno... might be a bit much. If you'd show them Raiders of the Lost Ark, then maybe. There's no hideous face-melting stuff, but one of the villains definitely winds up maimed, in pieces, and has his remains disrespected. But it's still all in a comic book tone.

As for Nolan's trilogy, it's less cruelly violent but it deals with more realistic themes and is intense, especially Dark Knight. Like, I was anxious watching it in the theatre. And Ledger's joker is a much more menacing depiction of evil (or at least chaos) than you're likely to see in most comic book films. I wouldn't expect an 8-year-old to be able to mull some of the philosophical stuff, like the first movie's "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you either".
Last edited by Sudy on Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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Sudy wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:46 pm There are a few F-bombs in the Snyder cut and the violence is definitely heavier. But I wouldn't say it's worse than, say, LOTR-level.
LOTR wasn't nearly as tonally oppressive as Snyder's DC films on whole.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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Definitely, I meant that only in regard to the violence level. They're mostly shredding monsters, and even the human baddies are monstrous. And it's a "they don't know their own strength" situation, where Wonder Woman and Batman seem unable to incapacitate a baddie without hurling them clear across the room with an intensity that would liquify their insides.

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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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Sudy wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:46 pm As for Nolan's trilogy, it's less cruelly violent but it deals with more realistic themes and is intense, especially Dark Knight. Like, I was anxious watching it in the theatre. And Ledger's joker is a much more menacing depiction of evil (or at least chaos) than you're likely to see in most comic book films.
I don't feel that Ledger's Joker was especially terrifying to the point that he could scare children. His motivation was to prove that everyone is capable of selfish behavior, that there was no altruism in man's nature. If anything, he's kind of boring in comparison to the comic book version of the Joker. At least for a small child who can't really comprehend what Nolan's version of the character is all about.
Sudy wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:52 pm Definitely, I meant that only in regard to the violence level. They're mostly shredding monsters, and even the human baddies are monstrous. And it's a "they don't know their own strength" situation, where Wonder Woman and Batman seem unable to incapacitate a baddie without hurling them clear across the room with an intensity that would liquify their insides.
Jenkin's Wonder Woman hurls a guy across a room to stop them. Snyder's Batman hurls a guy across a room to hurt them. That's the difference.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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it's impossible to watch anything without the 8 year old around. So I'll probably hold off for now
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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I dunno man, that level of chaos and depravity is the soul of true evil. It was still a guy in clown makeup, but if I were a kid and it didn't scare me, it would only be because I didn't understand it. [Edit: Which is what you mentioned. But then why show it to someone who can't fully appreciate it?] Maybe it would be different after I knew the ending, and how pathetically he ended.

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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

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naednek wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:57 pm it's impossible to watch anything without the 8 year old around. So I'll probably hold off for now
Just give him copies of Adam West's Batman. The worst thing that could happen is he learns and loves the Batusi.

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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

Post by Blackhawk »

For kids and the DC films... Shazam. Wonder Woman if some level of real-world violence is OK. Aquaman if comic violence plus minor swearing is OK.

Batman v Supes and Man of Steel would probably go right over a kids head and not be all that interesting, plus the violence and themes. Suicide Squad would be fun, but it isn't kid friendly. Birds of Prey... Hell, I barely remember much beyond hating what they did with one of my favorite characters (Orphan.)
Last edited by Blackhawk on Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

Post by hepcat »

Sudy wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:58 pm I dunno man, that level of chaos and depravity is the soul of true evil. It was still a guy in clown makeup, but if I were a kid and it didn't scare me, it would only be because I didn't understand it. [Edit: Which is what you mentioned. But then why show it to someone who can't fully appreciate it?] Maybe it would be different after I knew the ending, and how pathetically he ended.
In the comics, the Joker beats a young teenage boy to death with a baseball bat. He then cripples a young woman and then it's implied he sexually assaulted her.

Nolan's Joker trying to prove people are basically awful sounds downright tame to me in comparison.
Last edited by hepcat on Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Streaming] HBO Max

Post by Sudy »

hepcat wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:53 pm
Sudy wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:52 pm Definitely, I meant that only in regard to the violence level. They're mostly shredding monsters, and even the human baddies are monstrous. And it's a "they don't know their own strength" situation, where Wonder Woman and Batman seem unable to incapacitate a baddie without hurling them clear across the room with an intensity that would liquify their insides.
Jenkin's Wonder Woman hurls a guy across a room to stop them. Snyder's Batman hurls a guy across a room to hurt them. That's the difference.
Yeah, pardon some sloppy thoughts... I don't mean to imply the heroes truly don't know their strength. It just laughably seems that way. Batman definitely has anger/empathy issues, I don't know about the others. But the result is the same. And probably plays into Snyder's whole "heroes as gods, not humans" thing, which might see the depth of damage inflicted, and even some collateral damage, as the price of calling Zeus down from Olympus.

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