COVID-19 treatment and vaccine update thread

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:11 pm

Got my second jab this morning. Like the other parents here it isn't going to change much as neither of my kids are eligible, but happy to have it regardless. The local mega-site had a lot fewer cars than it did 3 weeks ago, sadly.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:43 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:03 pm Only will be better for folks without kids, it seems. At least in terms of significantly altering pandemic-precaution behavior. I can't in good conscience go to a movie theater when my kids are at home unprotected.

I swear, I have no connection to The Atlantic:

In America, adults are racing headlong into a post-vaccination summer while kids are being left in vaccine limbo. Pfizer’s shot is likely to be authorized for ages 12 to 15 in several weeks’ time, but younger kids may have to wait until the fall or even early 2022 as clinical trials run their course. This “age de-escalation” strategy is typical for clinical trials, but it means this confusing period of vaccinated adults and unvaccinated kids will not be over soon. And the pandemic will start to look quite different.

How different? Vaccination is already changing the landscape of COVID-19 risk by age. In the U.S., hospital admissions have fallen dramatically for adults over 70 who were prioritized for vaccines, but they have remained steady—or have even risen slightly—in younger groups that became eligible more recently. This trend is likely to continue as vaccines reach younger and younger adults. Over the summer, the absolute number of cases may drop as mass vaccination dampens transmission while the relative share of cases among the unvaccinated rises, simply because they are the ones still susceptible. The unvaccinated group will, of course, be disproportionately children. By dint of our vaccine order, COVID-19 will start looking like a disease of the young.

On age differences:

At least 15-year-olds have an end in sight; they are likely to be eligible for Pfizer’s vaccine soon. Parents of younger kids may have to keep making these split decisions a lot longer. In their strange world, a dinner party with their adult friends is fine, but a birthday party for their 5-year-old could still spread the virus. When I asked several experts about a hypothetical party for unvaccinated preschoolers in the fall, they told me they would continue to think about ways to reduce risk, such as keeping the gathering small and outdoors. These assessments are hard to make in advance: We don’t know exactly what the situation will look like and how much the virus will still be circulating. Perhaps COVID-19 will have faded enough that people won’t be spending every waking minute thinking about the virus anymore. Perhaps not.

And on how it all depends on where you live in America:

To make these decisions more difficult, the situation probably won’t be the same everywhere in America. Already, rural residents report less interest in getting the shots than people living in cities and suburbs. Whether because of vaccine hesitancy or unequal access, “I think there’s going to be a huge amount of variation geographically,” says Whitney Robinson, an epidemiologist at UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health. The virus may continue to circulate in pockets of the country where not enough eligible adults are vaccinated. These adults plus still-ineligible kids could add up to a pretty large pool of susceptible people.

Ultimately, the risk to unvaccinated kids later this year depends on the actions we take now. The faster we vaccinate and the better we suppress cases through other measures, the safer the situation will be for anyone who remains uninoculated in the fall. Then, finally, parents can stop telling kids to do things that they themselves are not doing—which, as former kids I think can agree, is literally the worst.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:49 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:39 am
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:55 am Between the anti-vaxxers, the hesitancy, and the false press, being vaccinated feels different than it should.

It should feel like a victory, like a battle won, like we're almost there, the end of the war in sight. It doesn't. It feels like taking advantage of a break in the battle to refortify the defenses before they throw the next wave at us.
I was vaccinated for over 3 months before the wife got her first shot. The kids aren't vaccinated and won't be for some time. So essentially nothing changed for me when I was fully vaccinated.

I'd suggest that being vaccinated, on an individual level, doesn't mean shit. Nothing changes until everyone (or around 80% of everyone) is vaccinated.

Maybe I should clarify what I meant.

I'm lucky in that my kids are 17 and 19. Every member of my family has had their first shot, and in five weeks we'll all be at 2nd shot + 2 weeks. We'll be safe, or at least as safe as we can be with so many people choosing not to be. But like others have said, that doesn't mean much past our front door, and it doesn't give any hope of a return to normalcy anytime soon. And that's what's behind what I said. Instead of this feeling like progress, like we're finally getting somewhere, the feeling is, "Well, now we're safe, and at least the lunatics putting us in danger can't do much to us, at least not for a while." Instead of feeling like a step toward victory, it just feels like a stronger bunker to huddle in.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:55 pm

I'd add that it's not just the lunatics, it's a lot of the youngs (who may or may not also be lunatics).

But younger people just aren’t as scared of the virus. They’re less likely to end up in the hospital and, while Long Covid is a worry, they may have recovered from a mild infection or seen friends shake it off. It’s therefore harder for them to ignore concerns about side effects, unlike older adults whose risk analysis will skew the opposite way.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:16 pm

$iljanus wrote:And I think for far too many Americans, the concept of new variants arising from unvaccinated populations is too much for their brains. And for some it's just another scientific "theory" used to scare the masses.

We’ve stopped paying attention.

My aunt was declaring COVID-19 to be fake propaganda because “no one she knows” was infected while her brother was in the hospital. When confronted on Facebook she stated “well, nobody but him and he’s old (90s)”. She was too busy posting to “pwn the dems” than to think.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:29 pm

Well got through my first shot first night...with a little strangeness.

My arm was ok in the night. Was still sore but I could sleep on it. In fact I purposefully tested out sleeping on it to see how it would go. I could. But it is more sore today than last night. Im guessing its because I wasn't moving it in my sleep. So Im expecting the soreness to fade as I work it out today.

Had some really strange dreams. I cant attribute the shot to them though as Ive sometimes had nights of really strange dreams. But they were weird.

The strangest part though was something Ive never had happen in my entire life. When I started falling asleep Id wake with a start right afterward gasping for breath. It seems that when I fell asleep I quit breathing. After about 3 times I wondered if Id have to go to the hospital to sleep and have them breath for me or die from lack of sleep. Kinda scary. After about a total of 5 times of this I fell sleep and stayed asleep normal. Was freaky though.

EDIT: Oh and I didn't get up until 1pm. Not done that in years.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:59 pm

i will say the night after my first shot had some very interesting dreams - enough to stand out from other nights.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:03 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:59 pm i will say the night after my first shot had some very interesting dreams - enough to stand out from other nights.

That's just your body adjusting to the neural input from the Gates chip. Goes away after a day or two when you start getting ads in your sleep instead.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:10 pm

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:13 pm

To quote Churchill, "This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Our favorite pizza place, since they returned to dine-in seating, has been providing parmesan cheese in little plastic individual containers. However, today when we went, they had returned to using the table side shakers

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:27 pm

Nothing short of amazing.

Jen Psaki says the U.S. will hit Pres. Biden’s doubled goal of 200 million shots on Thursday, more than a week ahead of schedule

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:31 pm

Im not sure why some folks thought having a business man as President was smarter than a politician. Maybe the hospitals could hire mechanics to be surgeons.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:34 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:29 pm It seems that when I fell asleep I quit breathing. After about 3 times I wondered if Id have to go to the hospital to sleep and have them breath for me or die from lack of sleep. Kinda scary. After about a total of 5 times of this I fell sleep and stayed asleep normal. Was freaky though.

EDIT: Oh and I didn't get up until 1pm.

Or did you.... ?

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:43 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:31 pm Im not sure why some folks thought having a business man as President was smarter than a politician. Maybe the hospitals could hire mechanics to be surgeons.

Not wanting to cross the line into a possible R&P discussion, but I will agree with you on this.

Meanwhile, what is going on with Michigan? This is from today's New York Times, noting Hot Spots.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:45 pm

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:43 pm Meanwhile, what is going on with Michigan? This is from today's New York Times, noting Hot Spots.

It's being discussed on the other side of the fence. In short - politics.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:48 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:45 pm
jztemple2 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:43 pm Meanwhile, what is going on with Michigan? This is from today's New York Times, noting Hot Spots.
It's being discussed on the other side of the fence. In short - politics.

Thanks, I was just wondering. I really like that NYT newsletter I get each day, makes it easier to actually find data.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:58 pm

I got my vaccine and political vaccine threads mixed up.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:25 pm

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:43 pm Meanwhile, what is going on with Michigan? This is from today's New York Times, noting Hot Spots.

We're Freedom idiots who drink too much coming in to spring with cold nights and open bars breathing all over each other and shouting about what a farce the whole thing... and then we have a lot of college towns. St Patrick's day weekend was literally our death knell.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:34 pm

I was right in that my arm soreness is considerably lessened during the day as I move it.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:31 pm

We’ve been vaccinated for two months now but it’s not like the Before Times. I’ll be playing board games with a larger group of people but I will absolutely have my mask on. I know them but not that well and one of them is a complete flake. Going to try to sit as far as possible from him.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:10 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:25 pm St Patrick's day weekend was literally our death knell.

Followed quickly by spring break and Easter. That run was as bad for careless behavior as Halloween-Tgiving-Xmas -- worse, since you'd collectively said "fuck it" by then and the new variants were reporting for duty.

What I don't understand is why FL isn't glowing red on that map, too. What did they do right that MI didn't, or what did MI do wrong that FL didn't? Was it chance? When this pandemic finally goes into the history books, epidemiologists are going to ask questions like that for years. There's not a good explanation for why some of the responsible states fared worse than the irresponsible ones and vice versa. For example, after some early missteps MA was pretty diligent about observing restrictions, whereas FL...was not. And yet MA has 251 deaths per 100k compared to 160 in FL and 181 in MI. (source) There are lots of ways to slice data, but I haven't seen them make a whole lot of sense.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:14 am

Speaking as a Floridian, I can only offer observations... although we did not have a state-wide mask order, it was left up to the individual counties and many did implement mask orders for a time. Also, going to places like grocery stores even now, which have "mandatory" (IE not enforced) mask rules, most folks are wearing masks and observing social distancing. Yesterday at my local Publix supermarket I saw almost everyone wearing masks, and in a nice touch, a woman came to the door and asked an associate if they had masks available since she forgot hers. They provided her with one.

I think part of it might stem from a larger population of seniors, most of whom took mask wearing very seriously. Even with my county having 63% of all 65+ folks fully vaccinated, you rarely see a senior indoors that isn't wearing a mask. And people who deal with seniors, like restaurant servers, clerks, that sort of thing, know that wearing a mask was a good policy if you want the business of seniors.

Some of it might be the climate. We spend lots of time outdoors. Many media sites have published "scare" pictures of crowded beaches, but as someone who goes pretty much every week to the beach, there is plenty of room to spread out and maintain six feet plus between groups. Not to say it hasn't been a busy Spring Break, we had almost a month of busy beaches and other locales, and there were a lot of Florida plates among the out-of-staters. Seemed a lot of folks just wanted to get outside and enjoy the nice weather.

Finally, and I can only speak to this in my county and those places on the east side of Orlando we frequent, we don't seem to see many "ass-hats", people who want to be difficult for the sake of being difficult.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:32 am

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:10 pm What I don't understand is why FL isn't glowing red on that map, too. What did they do right that MI didn't, or what did MI do wrong that FL didn't? Was it chance? When this pandemic finally goes into the history books, epidemiologists are going to ask questions like that for years. There's not a good explanation for why some of the responsible states fared worse than the irresponsible ones and vice versa. For example, after some early missteps MA was pretty diligent about observing restrictions, whereas FL...was not. And yet MA has 251 deaths per 100k compared to 160 in FL and 181 in MI. (source) There are lots of ways to slice data, but I haven't seen them make a whole lot of sense.

Ignorant guess: 1) Florida is more conducive to being outside. 2) Michigan had been doing comparatively well until we decided it was spring and all went outdoor in the day and then moved inside (together) in the evening. Drinking and whooping it up, screw the masks.... and we're off. The south will be fortunate if they immunize in time for it to get too hot and all get driven indoors when Michigan starts spending all its time outside. Add children to the mix...

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:12 am

3rd day. Arm is still a little tender. No weird breathing stuff last night.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:10 pm

Went on a research "cruise" for three days this week with four other folk on a smallish (35') boat. I won't be fully vaccinated until Tuesday, but everyone else on the trip was fully vaccinated. For the first two days of the trip, we generally all wore masks even when working on the deck of the boat, although we did all eat together around a small table in the cabin. But by the last day we were pretty lax about the masks. I feel pretty ok since everyone else was fully vaccinated and, if anyone of them did have Covid, I almost certainly had already caught it from them considering our close quarters. I guess I'll find out in 5 - 10 days!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:47 pm

Guy who works for me has said he has been careful since the start and home school's his kids, so even less risk. Two weeks ago kid had an indoor extracurricular class that started back up. Monday, kid spiked a fever (followed by the spouse two other family members two days later). Called the class - teacher is sick as is half the class. Kid tested positive today. Worker and his spouse were scheduled to get their first shot next week.

Don't let your guard down.

Edit: That is the royal "your", not addressed to Ralph.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:03 pm

I definitely let my guard down, but it was in about as safe conditions as I think we'll have for awhile (i.e., everyone fully or mostly vaccinated, much of the work outdoors, etc.).

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:52 pm

Got my reminder for Sunday. Normally, I hate the million spammish repetition reminders from all things medical. This time, I'm happy happy happy to see it.

(Nobody expects the spammish repetition. spam spam spam spam. spam spam spam spam)

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:36 pm

hopefully the University of Washington medical center can handle my second dose, if need be, as i'm not entirely sure the place i went to for my first one is going to notify me for it.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:46 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:47 pm Edit: That is the royal "your", not addressed to Ralph.

Wouldn't the royal "your" be "ye"?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:27 pm

This morning I went walking without taking a mask for the first time in over a year. My neighborhood is what you'd call a densely populated suburb, where there are dog-walkers and baby-pushers and joggers about on any nice day, but it's easy to maintain distance. I always kept my mask around my neck and only raised it if I couldn't avoid passing someone on the sidewalk (which was rare). After yesterday's revised recommendation about outdoor masking, I'm not doing that anymore -- unless I plan to walk into town, where pedestrian density is higher.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:33 pm

CDC advisors vote:

10 yes
4 no
1 abstain

To recommend use of J&J #covid19 vaccine for people 18+, adding warning about rare clots but not restricting its use

And:

Lots of comments on the abstention & 4 nos.

The person who abstained cited a conflict bc of involvement with clinical trials.

Those who voted no appeared more in favor of adding specific awareness of the risk for women under age 50.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:05 pm

Even if I don't wear a mask outdoors (when I take a walk, it is rare to see a single person, ever), I carry one in my pocket. If something comes up, whether an emergency or just the urge to stop in and get a drink, I want the option. If I see an elderly person fall, or Michelle drives by and asks if I want to run to the store with her, or any of a hundred things, well...

Spoiler:

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:51 pm

Im not sure on that CDC decision. Of course Im not a doc or anything but just hearing stuff about it and the pharmacy here mentioning more women coming in there with complaints or problems from it Im not on board with it. Its like handing someone a hand gun with 1 bullet and 5 empty chambers and saying here its probably ok.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:53 pm

I'm pretty sure that it's more like handing someone a gun with 1 bullet and 99,999 empty chambers.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:53 pm

I've taken to dangling a mask in my hand when I walk outside just so people will see it. Literal virtue signaling to encourage others.

Obviously I put it on if someone comes close.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:00 pm

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:40 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:51 pm Im not sure on that CDC decision. Of course Im not a doc or anything but just hearing stuff about it and the pharmacy here mentioning more women coming in there with complaints or problems from it Im not on board with it. Its like handing someone a hand gun with 1 bullet and 5 empty chambers and saying here its probably ok.

If you were a doctor, and people were dying by the hundreds daily, with the potential to turn into the thousands per day and hundreds of thousands per year, and you could risk (not sacrifice, risk) a couple dozen to save tens of thousands, would you? Remember, if you don't act, those thousands will die.

Also, I'm glad I'm not the people having to make those decisions. The answers are actually pretty clear, but who wants that on them?

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:47 pm

Actually you dont have to make that decision as there are other vaccines available.

I can say I would not take J&J with this knowledge male or female where before it seemed the safer if less helpful one.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:57 pm

Max Peck wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:53 pm I'm pretty sure that it's more like handing someone a gun with 1 bullet and 99,999 empty chambers.

You need more 9s.