COVID-19 treatment and vaccine update thread

[coopasonic]

I read a story that vegas has nightlife returning when less than 50% have a single vaccine. That's crazy to think that many people just "cant be bothered".

I was talking to my father-in-law on the 4th, in front of my wife who works in a hospital with COVID patients, saying something about getting back up to NY to visit friends when the Pandemic is over. He then proceeded to tell me "The pandemic is over!" I asked about the 18k covid deaths in May and he said "whatever" and walked away.

[YellowKing]

I had to resist the urge to jump into a NextDoor thread where someone was complaining that the government encouraging people to get the vaccine was a "HIPPA" [sic] violation. And people were agreeing right and left.

The level of dumb I would have to stoop to in order to even begin that conversation was something I could not handle at 8:00 in the morning.

[stessier]

This could be exciting if it works - mRNA vaccine technology moves to flu: Moderna says trial has begun

Moderna has given out the first doses of an mRNA-based influenza vaccine to participants in an early-phase clinical trial, the company announced Wednesday.

Moderna ultimately plans to test the vaccine on about 180 people in the Phase 1/2 randomized, stratified, observer-blind trial. The trial will look at safety, different doses, and immune responses.

The vaccine, called mRNA-1010, is designed to target four lineages of influenza viruses that circulate seasonally each year, just like the current quadrivalent flu vaccines on the market. The four virus lineages are those identified by the World Health Organization as the ones to target for disease prevention each year—seasonal influenza type A lineages H1N1 and H3N2 as well as influenza type B lineages Yamagata and Victoria. If mRNA-1010 is shown to be effective against the yearly plague in later-stage trials, Moderna aims to eventually bundle it with three other mRNA-based vaccines to create a yearly one-stop shot.

In addition to influenza, this envisioned combination shot would target two other common respiratory viruses that circulate alongside influenza—respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) and human metapneumovirus (hMPV)—as well as the COVID-19 coronavirus, SARS-COV-2, which some experts have speculated could become seasonal. Currently, there are no licensed vaccines against either RSV or hMPV. And it's unclear if SARS-CoV-2 will become seasonal and/or if annual booster vaccines will be necessary.

[LawBeefaroni]

I had to resist the urge to jump into a NextDoor thread where someone was complaining that the government encouraging people to get the vaccine was a "HIPPA" [sic] violation. And people were agreeing right and left.

The level of dumb I would have to stoop to in order to even begin that conversation was something I could not handle at 8:00 in the morning.

I too have to bite my tongue when I hear that kind of shit. HIPAA is so completely misunderstood and misused.

It lays the groundwork for EMR/PHR and protects PHI. That's it. It's not some kind of shield from public health.

[Zaxxon]

I had to resist the urge to jump into a NextDoor thread where someone was complaining that the government encouraging people to get the vaccine was a "HIPPA" [sic] violation. And people were agreeing right and left.

The level of dumb I would have to stoop to in order to even begin that conversation was something I could not handle at 8:00 in the morning.

I too have to bite my tongue when I hear that kind of shit. HIPAA is so completely misunderstood and misused.

It lays the groundwork for EMR/PHR and protects PHI. That's it. It's not some kind of shield from public health.

But all HI is P, say the Karens.

[LawBeefaroni]

I had to resist the urge to jump into a NextDoor thread where someone was complaining that the government encouraging people to get the vaccine was a "HIPPA" [sic] violation. And people were agreeing right and left.

The level of dumb I would have to stoop to in order to even begin that conversation was something I could not handle at 8:00 in the morning.

I too have to bite my tongue when I hear that kind of shit. HIPAA is so completely misunderstood and misused.

It lays the groundwork for EMR/PHR and protects PHI. That's it. It's not some kind of shield from public health.

But all HI is P, say the Karens.

But HIPAA only applies to providers, insurances, and their BAs. Not employers, restaurants, grocers, etc. Asking for vaccine status or requiring vaccination is not a violation for these entities.

I love that 99% of the time they're sovereign citizens but try to hide behind the government HIPAA shield when they are confronted with reality.


If a doctor asks/knows your name and address, that's PHI. If Costco does, it's not.

[Zaxxon]

I know... I'm just piling on.

[Smoove_B]

Seems to be some...significant conflicting opinions right now. FDA and CDC have released a joint statement saying boosters are not necessary at this time (maybe never) but Pfizer is saying they're actively pursuing approval for booster.

NEW: Pfizer-BioNTech say they are pursuing booster vaccines because of Delta, and that boosters may be needed in 6-12 months.
But experts, CDC and FDA all say: Not so fast. There's no evidence that boosters will be needed -- maybe ever.

[LordMortis]

I am glad the Pfizer is pursuing a booster and I am also glad the CDC and FDA remain independent of Pharma in their findings/research. I'll generally take the later's word over the former, but I sure as shit don't want the former to stop pushing forward with better responses nor with going through a process of making a booster available when "breakthrough" cases and mutated strains are demonstrably a thing. My biggest fear for the FDA/CDC is that they will allow politics to cloud their findings. My biggest fear for Pharma is that they will allow stockholders and press releases to cloud their findings. I'm not smart or informed enough to know which one has a better grasp and presentation on the reality of the situation.

In the end, I would happy to see the booster being approved with the same annual efficiency as the approval for annual flu shots and we can worry about "need" when there aren't nearly a half million new cases around the world reported daily with thousands of people dying every day.

[El Guapo]

Is that necessarily in conflict? Seems like it can both be true that there's not currently much evidence to support the necessity of boosters, and also that it makes sense for Pfizer and others to work on boosters in case such evidence develops later.

[Blackhawk]

If the potential for profit means deeper research, let them make their case (provided they don't start fudging data.)

[ImLawBoy]

Is that necessarily in conflict? Seems like it can both be true that there's not currently much evidence to support the necessity of boosters, and also that it makes sense for Pfizer and others to work on boosters in case such evidence develops later.

The conflict is that Pfizer is claiming they need approval on the boosters because they're seeing waning immunity. The FDA and CDC are disputing that.

[Lorini]

Is that necessarily in conflict? Seems like it can both be true that there's not currently much evidence to support the necessity of boosters, and also that it makes sense for Pfizer and others to work on boosters in case such evidence develops later.

The conflict is that Pfizer is claiming they need approval on the boosters because they're seeing waning immunity. The FDA and CDC are disputing that.

More $$ for Pfizer? Figuring they can create demand for something that's not needed?

[ImLawBoy]

That's my initial reaction, but maybe I'm just cynical. I could also argue that the FDA and CDC don't want to message that the vaccines aren't a godsend, so they don't want talk about immunity waning after only 6 months.

[gilraen]

Pfizer isn't lying about that, though. The further we get into variant-land, the more the efficacy percentages seem to be on a downward slide. Sure, when you go from 94% to 90% to 88%, that doesn't seem like such a big deal, it's still plenty high, but the trend isn't exactly favorable here.

[Max Peck]

It isn't just a matter of immunity waning. It seems optimistic to assume that the current crop of vaccines will remain effective against the constantly increasing number of variants indefinitely. According to the Israeli government, the Pfizer vaccine has an efficacy of 64% against the Delta variant (versus 95.3% when Alpha was dominant), with a much smaller decline in preventing severe symptoms (93%, down from 97%). That certainly seems in line with the current situation in the UK (a sharp increase in infections with only slight increases in hospital admissions and deaths), where the Delta variant has been taking over for some time now.

[Kraken]

Wife found out this afternoon that she was exposed to covid last weekend, when she spent a day indoors with several fully-vaxxed friends. One of them whose general health is marginal came down with full-blown covid. Wife's getting tested tomorrow morning. She feels fine, but needs to know whether to quarantine or not. If she tests negative, that means she isn't carrying the virus, right? This is the first time either of us has knowingly been exposed so I'm not 100% clear on the protocol.

[Defiant]

There is a growing correlation between vaccinated Israelis who have been infected with the Delta variant of the coronavirus and those who were among the first to get the vaccine, possibly indicating that the vaccine’s protection fades over time, a report said Sunday.

However, some experts working with the Health Ministry cautioned that it was too early to draw conclusions, since the sample size was too small and those who were vaccinated first are mostly the elderly, who have a weaker immune system to begin with.

Israeli data seems to show COVID vaccine protection starts fading after 6 months

[dbt1949]

I think pe0ple like to worry and drug makers like to make more money.

[Daehawk]

I dont see the hubbub. If it fades get a booster if not then dont. People afraid of shots or something?

[Blackhawk]

I dont see the hubbub. If it fades get a booster if not then dont. People afraid of shots or something?

People don't want to see drug companies manufacture a need and defraud humanity for billions in order to profit from a pandemic that has killed millions. If boosters are needed, absolutely. But we need to make sure they're actually needed rather than taking the fox's word on the hen house.

Especially if doing so makes the vaccine seem less appealing while we're still in the midst of convincing people to take it in the first place.

[raydude]

I dont see the hubbub. If it fades get a booster if not then dont. People afraid of shots or something?

People don't want to see drug companies manufacture a need and defraud humanity for billions in order to profit from a pandemic that has killed millions. If boosters are needed, absolutely. But we need to make sure they're actually needed rather than taking the fox's word on the hen house.

Especially if doing so makes the vaccine seem less appealing while we're still in the midst of convincing people to take it in the first place.

At what point does the emergency become such that Biden can enact a War Powers clause and take over the drug industry to get them to make the vaccine without charging an arm and a leg? Surely that will get rid of the worry over defrauding humanity?

[Rumpy]

I'd rather see them get the research done and be ready in case it's needed rather than being caught unprepared. We've got momentum now, we don't want to get lax again. Some people seem to forget that these are companies that are supplying the world with their vaccines.

[raydude]

Welp, just got an email from the summer camp that our kids go to. It in this huge facility called The St. James and even though it's indoors the gyms and other areas are huge. Plus they did have a policy of making sure the kids wore masks although I was apprehensive that some of the counselors were just using them as chin diapers. In any case, there was one confirmed COVID-19 case reported by Fairfax County on Thursday. Looks like the camp sent an email to all parents whose kids were in the same group - or a group that shared the same venue. In my case, it was dance and gymnastics camp. Our neighbor, whose kids went to basketball camp, did not get the email.

So now my kids get to quarantine at home for the next two weeks and they suggest that my kids get tested. I'm not so much concerned about the stay-at-home bit, since I can work from home, but I am concerned about my 9 year old because she's unvaccinated.

[Isgrimnur]

Yahoo

A 90-year-old Belgian woman who died from COVID-19 in March contracted both the UK and South African strain simultaneously, researchers said at a press conference on Sunday.

Her case, which was discussed at this year's European Congress on Clinical Microbiology & Infectious Diseases (ECCMID) as part of Belgian research, is believed to be the first of its kind.

[LawBeefaroni]

I dont see the hubbub. If it fades get a booster if not then dont. People afraid of shots or something?

People don't want to see drug companies manufacture a need and defraud humanity for billions in order to profit from a pandemic that has killed millions. If boosters are needed, absolutely. But we need to make sure they're actually needed rather than taking the fox's word on the hen house.

Especially if doing so makes the vaccine seem less appealing while we're still in the midst of convincing people to take it in the first place.

There's also the ethical dilemma of getting a 3rd dose when a large part of the world doesn't have access to any doses.


I'm now 7 months out from my second shot. I'll take the 3rd if offered but I'm not going to lose sleep over not having it.

[Jaymon]

Wife found out this afternoon that she was exposed to covid last weekend, when she spent a day indoors with several fully-vaxxed friends. One of them whose general health is marginal came down with full-blown covid. Wife's getting tested tomorrow morning. She feels fine, but needs to know whether to quarantine or not. If she tests negative, that means she isn't carrying the virus, right? This is the first time either of us has knowingly been exposed so I'm not 100% clear on the protocol.

Covid can take up to a week before you test positive if you have been infected. Testing within 3 days of exposure is less effective. The best time for testing is 5-7 days after exposure. You should plan to quarantine for 14 days after a known exposure risk, to allow time for both testing and symptoms to appear.

[El Guapo]

Wife found out this afternoon that she was exposed to covid last weekend, when she spent a day indoors with several fully-vaxxed friends. One of them whose general health is marginal came down with full-blown covid. Wife's getting tested tomorrow morning. She feels fine, but needs to know whether to quarantine or not. If she tests negative, that means she isn't carrying the virus, right? This is the first time either of us has knowingly been exposed so I'm not 100% clear on the protocol.

Covid can take up to a week before you test positive if you have been infected. Testing within 3 days of exposure is less effective. The best time for testing is 5-7 days after exposure. You should plan to quarantine for 14 days after a known exposure risk, to allow time for both testing and symptoms to appear.

Yeah, she should quarantine (and probably you too), at least until she gets her test results back.

The friend was fully vaccinated? Do you know about when the friend was vaccinated?

[Kraken]

Wife found out this afternoon that she was exposed to covid last weekend, when she spent a day indoors with several fully-vaxxed friends. One of them whose general health is marginal came down with full-blown covid. Wife's getting tested tomorrow morning. She feels fine, but needs to know whether to quarantine or not. If she tests negative, that means she isn't carrying the virus, right? This is the first time either of us has knowingly been exposed so I'm not 100% clear on the protocol.

Covid can take up to a week before you test positive if you have been infected. Testing within 3 days of exposure is less effective. The best time for testing is 5-7 days after exposure. You should plan to quarantine for 14 days after a known exposure risk, to allow time for both testing and symptoms to appear.

Yeah, she should quarantine (and probably you too), at least until she gets her test results back.

The friend was fully vaccinated? Do you know about when the friend was vaccinated?

She tested negative. IDK anything about her friend except that she's a little older than us (so OLD) and in fragile general health.

[Kraken]

I asked Wife about her sick friend. She's a former nurse, and she was vaccinated at about the same time we were, so this was a genuine breakthrough infection. She is a cautious and informed person who just lost on the odds.

The day before her test result came back, Wife got a phone call from a state contact tracer, who said (based on a questionnaire) that she didn't have to quarantine.

[Smoove_B]

Another study just published regarding immunocompromised people

Immunity & immunodeficiency are complex & not an on /off state, rather a spectrum!
E.g., while it’s been shown that solid organ transplant receivers could benefit from 3rdSyringe, new data indicates 2SyringemRNA may be adequate for stem cell transplant patients.

I'd also seen a few comments on social media this morning that using modified vaccination protocols to immunocompromised people (like giving them a 3rd shot) isn't technically a "booster" in pure medical terms - so the Pfizer application for boosters isn't something that would work here.

[MHS]

I've been considering just registering for another vaccine as if I hadn't had one.

Not knowing is really kind of the worst.

[Smoove_B]

The WHO released a statement yesterday explicitly advising against that:

"Individuals should not decide for themselves, public health agencies can, based on available data," she said in the tweet. "Data from mix and match studies of different vaccines are awaited - immunogenicity and safety both need to be evaluated."

I'm not exactly sure when that data or those studies will be published, but there really does seem to be lots of interest in getting solid information on what's best (which is nice to see, for a change).

Not knowing is really kind of the worst.

Tom Petty had it right. I am hopeful the next ~45 days will change a lot of things for lots of people, with respect to policies and practices changing. I need to keep hoping or I'll go crazy.

[MHS]

Yeah, I haven't just gone and gotten another shot because I believe in science and I want to trust the medical professionals. But damn, sometimes it's hard.

[Kurth]

Also, what actually constitutes “immune compromised” for purposes of COVID risk analysis?

I have yet to see a really good explanation. I think I’m immune compromised due to some medication I’m on for a chronic condition, but it’s not entirely clear.

[LordMortis]

With the vaccine freely available, I can't see not waiting for your ongoing care provider for your transplant to give you the green light. I can't see any way someone in that position doesn't have more information available than you do and while their interest isn't is as personal as it is to you, it is just as active. My being compromised is due to my medications, I'm not nearly so worried. Maybe I should be. Of course, for me it's never about life and death if I get sick. It's about getting off my medications before it becomes lief and death and then ???profit???, I guess. I think it's more likely I get cancer, than it is an infection becoming uncontrollable, except TB. I have to get TB tests *a lot*.

Edit, that is to MHS, not kurth, who so rudely interrupted when I had to go set up a cable for a coworker....

Kurth,

I always had the same question. I have been considered immune compromised since being put on TNF Inhibitors(?) for my crone's. I am more susceptible to infection and don't fight them when I get them according to all the literature and they questions they ask me every time I become medicated. At the same time, I am currently being treated with imfliximab(?) which is being used to treat COVID symptoms, even though it compromises immune systems, so I don't know nothing about nothing. I just have to rely on specialists actually being specialists.

https://www.news-medical.net/health/Wha ... cade).aspx

https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04425538

[Smoove_B]

I have yet to see a really good explanation. I think I’m immune compromised due to some medication I’m on for a chronic condition, but it’s not entirely clear.

I am guessing it's a question your PCP will ultimately answer. I see different phrasing - immunocompromised vs immunosuppressed, and I honestly don't know which is the preferred terminology. At a most basic level, anyone taking medications or undergoing treatments that in any way directly or indirectly impact how the immune system functions should probably be advised accordingly. Or if you have some type of medical condition that impacts immune response (regardless of meds you're on).

[hitbyambulance]

I'm not exactly sure when that data or those studies will be published, but there really does seem to be lots of interest in getting solid information on what's best (which is nice to see, for a change).

i am also glad to at least see this happening

[Lorini]

Well there has been a suggestion that workplaces should require that their workers either get vaccinated or get tested every day. Sounds like a plan to me.

[LawBeefaroni]

Well there has been a suggestion that workplaces should require that their workers either get vaccinated or get tested every day. Sounds like a plan to me.

With daily tests costing employers $50+ each, it gets cost prohibitive to give employees the option to not be vaccinated. $250/week so an employee can opt to remain unvaccinated? I think those employees will be frowned upon.