[Disney Plus Marvel] The Falcon and The Winter Soldier

[Grifman]

The premiere for this show had a bigger audience than the debuts of either WandaVision or The Mandalorian, which is really saying something.

[Grifman]

I haven't checked them out yet, but there's a certain corner of the sci-fi/comics Youtube world that despises anything approaching a recognition and need for diversity. They panned Brie Larson as Captain Marvel after she made some comments about the need for diversity and they can't stand the idea of the Enterprise being helmed by a black female. They also promote all sorts of absurd theories - that Larson is going to be replaced (despite the fact that Captain Marvel made over a billion dollars at the box office) and that Star Trek: Discovery was not going to have a season 4 (despite CBS saying the show does great on CBS All Access and that the show is their linchpin for future ST shows). I am certain they are freaking out over this show, I really need to check out the mouth foaming that is certainly taking place to see what absurd theories they are now spouting. And I'm certain that the idea of a Captain America 4 with a "woke" black hero isn't going to make them happy either.

[hepcat]

The whole point of Falcon taking up the mantle, and the side story about Isaiah Bradley (still want a spin off for his character...like...right now), was that America isn't perfect. But that there's hope it can be someday.

As for the ridiculous crap about minorities and women taking over roles in comics, it's STILL predominantly male and white, for God's sake.

I personally love the diversity they're trying to introduce to these stories. I've heard my side of America my entire life. I want to hear something new.

We can't shed ourselves of those mouth breathing morons who claim movies and shows are being ruined by introducing something other than Aryan men fast enough.

[Zarathud]

It’s ridiculous to hear a so-called Marvel fan cry about diversity of comic book superheroes. That’s the genius behind Marvel — branching out storytelling beyond Batman and Superman.

[El Guapo]

[rittchard]

(Likely some spoilers if you haven't finished the series)

I was pretty underwhelmed with many of the show's details, although I did enjoy it overall. Relative to regular television, it's still above and beyond in terms of production quality, etc. I like that they wanted to tackle some interesting issues, particularly the post-post-Thanos return of life, and for the most part it worked. But unfortunately it felt like they may have sacrificed a lot of the fun/excitement factor that comes with a comic book series by doing so. Following Wandavision certainly didn't help, where every week we were expecting the entire MCU to flip upside down and sideways.

The things I liked: Sharon Carter. Just love the actress, I've followed her career since Brothers and Sisters, and she's always enjoyable. Glad they finally gave her character some real interesting storylines. Zemo. He was much more amusing than anyone else on the show, plus as smart and ruthless as ever. Bucky. Yummy. I would have enjoyed seeing him go out on a date with the Asian girl but oh well, maybe next season? USAgent. Annoying at first, but he grew on me by the end, and I liked that his character got a full story arc through the series.

The things I didn't: Carli. Nothing wrong with her in general, but having her be the main antagonist was just a bit pathetic IMHO. I'm sorry but I just don't buy that this ragtag group, even with super soldier serum, could constantly outfight the trained folks they were up against, particularly Bucky, who seemed to me has been powered down a few levels. They've made it a point to show just how much Avengers experience and training makes you a badass with or without super powers, and yet, here we are with our two leads looking almost like amateurs at times against this novice group. That was probably my biggest beef of the show. Oh and also the new costume for Sam, ugh. YMMV.

I do hope they go ahead with the same cast and characters, and provide a more interesting/substantial villain.

[hepcat]

Conversely, I could have done without Sharon Carter in any capacity. Her character makes no damn sense to me. Carli on the other hand felt almost fully realized and sympathetic (most of the time).

If it had been more action and less thoughtfulness, I doubt I would have liked it as much as I did.

[msteelers]

I loved the show. Sam Wilson is fantastic as Captain America, and I need more of it.

The only elements I didn’t care for were Sharon Carter and the “redemption” for John Walker. Neither felt earned, and felt more like they were only there to setup future shows/movies.

My guess is Carter to Armor Wars and John Walker to Thunderbolts or Dark Avengers.

[Freyland]

I never really felt Walker was redeemed, just was capable of making the right decision. Just enough to not be an actual villain, if that's considered redemption.

[JCC]

Yeah, I expect Walker will be a tweener or a bad guy who thinks he is good going forward. I like the fact, that we aren't sure what he will be.

[hepcat]

The problem being that you don’t go from a murderous, psychotic break to somewhat stable in 45 minutes. They rushed his “recovery”. They should have spent more time on that...or ended it with a less optimistic outlook for Walker.

[El Guapo]

The problem being that you don’t go from a murderous, psychotic break to somewhat stable in 45 minutes. They rushed his “recovery”. They should have spent more time on that...or ended it with a less optimistic outlook for Walker.

On the other hand it's not like he broke all that bad. He snapped while fighting terrorists and seeing one terrorist kill his best friend. It's not like he was murdering younglings.

That said, I do share the critique that the show had a lot of stuff that wasn't really earned. Like trying to shoehorn in Karli as being sympathetic while at the same time showing her killing all these innocent people over the misgivings of her comrades. I think a lot of that is that they tried to cover a ton of material in six episodes.

[rittchard]

The problem being that you don’t go from a murderous, psychotic break to somewhat stable in 45 minutes. They rushed his “recovery”. They should have spent more time on that...or ended it with a less optimistic outlook for Walker.

I guess I didn't see it as him being recovered, or necessarily having an optimistic ending for the long haul. I just saw it is he got bailed out and now he gets a new start with a better costume - but it could go any of a multitude of directions if he doesn't deal with the mental issues. I wouldn't be surprised if he became a "villain" or at least adversary in the future.

[Smoove_B]

I'm very late to finishing this, but I did want to jump in and say how much I enjoyed it (I had zero expectations going in). Not only was it well written, but it honestly felt more like a a really long movie in terms of scope and production. I was really surprised at all the characters they included and how they intertwined it with the overall Marvel Universe.

Captain America is (for me) a character I can't get into. I know they tried to address that in the movies by having him living as an anachronism, but even when it was focused on him in his own time, I just don't find his character interesting. I thought this show's story arc really addressed the disconnect and the bigger picture issues surrounding the mantle of Captain America.

[naednek]

The premiere for this show had a bigger audience than the debuts of either WandaVision or The Mandalorian, which is really saying something.

wait till you see see Loki's numbers

[naednek]

so far i would rank the 3 series in this order.

Loki, with Wanda Vision being very close behind it and then Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

All are good but I feel Loki just hits the spot. I enjoy the dialogue between Loki and Owens.

[hepcat]

Captain America is (for me) a character I can't get into. I know they tried to address that in the movies by having him living as an anachronism, but even when it was focused on him in his own time, I just don't find his character interesting. I thought this show's story arc really addressed the disconnect and the bigger picture issues surrounding the mantle of Captain America.

Captain America doesn't work because he's strong, fast or has an indestructible shield. He works because he represents what everyone should aspire to. His power is inspiration. For jaded people like myself and so many others, that actually hits close to home. When you watch one of Evans' CA movies, the loudest cheers don't come during the fight scenes, they come when he brings people together.

At least that's how I see it. Of course, it's 9:54 am and I"m only one iced coffee into my day. Who knows how I'll feel after Beer 'o Clock.

[Smoove_B]

I guess I should have been a bit clearer. I did enjoy the Captain America movies more than I thought I would. But generally his character isn't one I can identify with or I find interest in. I want to know more about Iron Man. I want to learn more about Hulk.

As a comic book character, I could never get into him (or any of the Golden Age characters, really). They all seem to...flat to me. Even some of the Silver age stuff just feels off to me.

I'm also jaded and cynical so maybe that's part of the problem.

[stessier]

Captain America doesn't work because he's strong, fast or has an indestructible shield. He works because he represents what everyone should aspire to. His power is inspiration. For jaded people like myself and so many others, that actually hits close to home. When you watch one of Evans' CA movies, the loudest cheers don't come during the fight scenes, they come when he brings people together.

Catching the hammer - loudest cheer ever.

[hepcat]

I guess I should have been a bit clearer. I did enjoy the Captain America movies more than I thought I would. But generally his character isn't one I can identify with or I find interest in. I want to know more about Iron Man. I want to learn more about Hulk.

As a comic book character, I could never get into him (or any of the Golden Age characters, really). They all seem to...flat to me. Even some of the Silver age stuff just feels off to me.

I'm also jaded and cynical so maybe that's part of the problem.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were wrong. I was just explaining why he hits home for me.

Much like Triple P's classic underdog story tugs at my heartstrings.

[Smoove_B]

No worries. I know he's a loved character, I just have a difficult time connecting with him or his motivations (at least in terms of his classic portrayal).

I think that's why the Falcon and Winter Solider was a big surprise for me. I wasn't really expecting much but the story (and characters) were so damn good. Karli (imho as others have pointed out) was the weakest link, but I still liked how it all played out. I don't understand people here not liking the Sharon Carter character.

[hepcat]

Count me amongst those who can't stand the Sharon Carter character. She felt like a poorly developed after thought. They should have taken her screen time and given it to the much, much more interesting Isaiah Bradley.

Also, if you want to enjoy another aspect of the show, go back and watch Anthony Mackie's training montage in one of the last episodes. You don't really appreciate the show until you saw how few fucks they gave in trying to hide the fact it was a body double for most of those scenes. Although they could have gone further and hired Danny Devito as his body double in a couple of those rapid shots.

[Smoove_B]

It won't surprise me if they give Bradley his own spin-off 4-6 episode series to document what happened to him - it feels like there's real potential there to tell an excellent story. I know it was a comic run so it's not like there's nothing to build from. Regardless, I do agree that given the weight of that story, relatively little time was spent on it.

I mean...Sharon's story was a big part of the Winter Solider and Civil War movies so I wasn't exactly expecting them to make her a major character in this show. Honestly, anything that helps to minimize her making out with Steve Rogers, which is just...weird.

[hepcat]

She's just so...bland. When her "edge" is revealed, it's like learning Martha Stewart may have used margarine instead of butter in a recipe. Though to be fair, it may just be the poorly written subplot for her character, and not so much her monotone acting.

[Malificent]

It won't surprise me if they give Bradley his own spin-off 4-6 episode series to document what happened to him - it feels like there's real potential there to tell an excellent story. I know it was a comic run so it's not like there's nothing to build from. Regardless, I do agree that given the weight of that story, relatively little time was spent on it.

I mean...Sharon's story was a big part of the Winter Solider and Civil War movies so I wasn't exactly expecting them to make her a major character in this show. Honestly, anything that helps to minimize her making out with Steve Rogers, which is just...weird.

I saw it pointed out that in the comics, Bradley's grandson was a member of the Young Avengers. As was Kid Loki. And Scarlet Witch's son, Billy (Wiccan). And Ant Man's daughter Cassie. And the Kate Bishop Hawkeye character who is getting her own show. Pieces are being put into place. Kind of fascinating to watch.

[Blackhawk]

La la la, typing this without reading, fingers in my ears. Er, eyes.

Ow.

Anyway, we just finally started this a couple of days ago. We're two episodes in. First impression: Bucky and Sam just need to kiss and get it over with. Captain America reminds me of Homelander.

[Isgrimnur]

La la la, typing this without reading, fingers in my ears. Er, eyes.

Ow.

Anyway, we just finally started this a couple of days ago. We're two episodes in. First impression: Bucky and Sam just need to kiss and get it over with. Captain America reminds me of Homelander.

AV Club: Anthony Mackie seems pretty unhappy with people who want Sam and Bucky to be gay

[Blackhawk]

I wasn't, and I don't take them that way. They both want a friend, they both need a friend, and they obviously can sense that they're a good match, but they're not willing to take that step and actually make it happen. So they need to kiss and get it over with. It's sort of like seeing two people who are being sappy and saying, "get a room, you two", or telling two obvious friends who keep arguing about little stuff, "You two bicker like an old married couple." It's about the chemistry and interaction, not actual romance.

[coopasonic]

After loving both seasons of Mandalorian and not hating Wandavision, I have watched one episode of Falcon and the Winter Soldier and wandered off bored. I have had no interest in any of the rest of the shows for some reason. I think I may be broken. I'll probably give She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel a chance... maybe.

I had no interest in them either, but I was really impressed across the boards with all of them. At a minimum you should watch Hawkeye as he puts off tired, annoyed middle-aged man energy the entire time. I have a whole new appreciation for his character after watching the D+ show.

Second watching Hawkeye. I can't blame you for giving up on Falcon.

I was wrong.

I’m surprised by the reactions here to Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It has some great action set pieces, a dancing Zemo, and it dives into what it means for a black man to be Captain America.

It had some elements that keep it lower on my list of favorite Marvel Disney+ shows (like some weak villains), but overall I still thought it was a solid series.

Bringing this back to life since I just finished Falcon and the Winter Soldier last night after abandoning it months ago. I abandoned it after the first episode, which had pretty much none of what was mentioned here. It had concerns about selling the parents boat and that's about it. Having finally finished the series, it was excellent and I am sorry I dropped it the first time.