The fall of US democracy preparation thread

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51302
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by hepcat »

Drazzil wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:21 pm
After Hillary Clinton openly admitted that nothing would change from the Obama years,
That's what made me vote for her.
Covfefe!
User avatar
YellowKing
Posts: 30126
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by YellowKing »

Blackhawk wrote:That bit on abortion rights got me thinking: How much would their platform change? In other words, how many "core Republican issues" would be completely forgotten if they suddenly didn't have to cater to the voters for reelection?
This is why I think the GOP plan is ultimately self-defeating. Aside from abortion and guns, their only real positions are opposing the other side. If you take away the need to oppose the other side (because you no longer need to worry about losing elections), I'm not sure where your source of power comes from. How do you generate fear of the enemy when your enemy no longer poses a threat?
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82093
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

You still make them out to be a threat. They don’t actually have to be one.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 20334
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Utah

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by Skinypupy »

YellowKing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:15 pm Aside from abortion and guns, their only real positions are opposing the other side.
To be fair, much of the momentum for Dems taking all three houses in the last election was simply "we're not Trumpy conservatives"
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by LordMortis »

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:33 pm
YellowKing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:15 pm Aside from abortion and guns, their only real positions are opposing the other side.
To be fair, much of the momentum for Dems taking all three houses in the last election was simply "we're not Trumpy conservatives"
Not just to be fair. It's a rotten strategy. Or at least it is from the perspective of someone who feels like he has to vote for the Dems because Trumpy conservatism is has ridiculous power. That can only get my vote for so long before "well, we're fucked anyway." This last election I saw a line I wouldn't cross. The sex predator democrat kid. I would have voted against him. I don't know where that line is, but clearly I have one and the more I feel hostage to voting for you because your not as bad as the other guy, the more I move toward "fuck it. Don't put this shit on me if you can't come up with an alternative."
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28907
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by Holman »

YellowKing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:15 pm
Blackhawk wrote:That bit on abortion rights got me thinking: How much would their platform change? In other words, how many "core Republican issues" would be completely forgotten if they suddenly didn't have to cater to the voters for reelection?
This is why I think the GOP plan is ultimately self-defeating. Aside from abortion and guns, their only real positions are opposing the other side. If you take away the need to oppose the other side (because you no longer need to worry about losing elections), I'm not sure where your source of power comes from. How do you generate fear of the enemy when your enemy no longer poses a threat?
Plenty of authoritarian regimes have maintained power and even stoked popular support after they achieved one-party rule.

In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by El Guapo »

Holman wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm
YellowKing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:15 pm
Blackhawk wrote:That bit on abortion rights got me thinking: How much would their platform change? In other words, how many "core Republican issues" would be completely forgotten if they suddenly didn't have to cater to the voters for reelection?
This is why I think the GOP plan is ultimately self-defeating. Aside from abortion and guns, their only real positions are opposing the other side. If you take away the need to oppose the other side (because you no longer need to worry about losing elections), I'm not sure where your source of power comes from. How do you generate fear of the enemy when your enemy no longer poses a threat?
Plenty of authoritarian regimes have maintained power and even stoked popular support after they achieved one-party rule.

In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.
The bigger problem is that once an authoritarian party consolidates one-party rule, it doesn't need to maintain majority support. It probably just needs something like 20% - 30% support plus the support of the military / security forces.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
YellowKing
Posts: 30126
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by YellowKing »

There's the rub - do you think the GOP can garner enough military support to keep the nation's majority from open revolt? I'm not yet convinced.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

YellowKing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:19 pm There's the rub - do you think the GOP can garner enough military support to keep the nation's majority from open revolt? I'm not yet convinced.
Can the nation's majority get off its collective ass to revolt?
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 43496
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by Blackhawk »

Holman wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.
You forgot the words 'straight' and 'male.'
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by El Guapo »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:26 pm
YellowKing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:19 pm There's the rub - do you think the GOP can garner enough military support to keep the nation's majority from open revolt? I'm not yet convinced.
Can the nation's majority get off its collective ass to revolt?
It's not really about open revolt. It's more about whether security forces are willing to shoot peaceful protestors on behalf of the regime.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Hipolito
Posts: 2187
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:00 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by Hipolito »

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:40 pm
Holman wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.
You forgot the words 'straight' and 'male.'
You can call them White Conservative Christian Men. (Conservative = straight/closeted). "Wiccams" for short.
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 19980
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:40 pm
Holman wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.
You forgot the words 'straight' and 'male.'
I’ll accept ‘straight’, but not ‘male’. LOTS of Trump/Liberty/tea party type supporters are women.
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 19322
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by Jaymann »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:39 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:40 pm
Holman wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.
You forgot the words 'straight' and 'male.'
I’ll accept ‘straight’, but not ‘male’. LOTS of Trump/Liberty/tea party type supporters are women.
I have a feeling most of those women have been duped into granting males the real power.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28907
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by Holman »

Jaymann wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:43 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:39 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:40 pm
Holman wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.
You forgot the words 'straight' and 'male.'
I’ll accept ‘straight’, but not ‘male’. LOTS of Trump/Liberty/tea party type supporters are women.
I have a feeling most of those women have been duped into granting males the real power.
Yeah. For this crowd "Christian" implies straight male authority.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by Kraken »

El Guapo wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:11 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:26 pm
YellowKing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:19 pm There's the rub - do you think the GOP can garner enough military support to keep the nation's majority from open revolt? I'm not yet convinced.
Can the nation's majority get off its collective ass to revolt?
It's not really about open revolt. It's more about whether security forces are willing to shoot peaceful protestors on behalf of the regime.
Last I heard, most soldiers are trumpy and the brass is not. Just need to replace the brass.
User avatar
dbt1949
Posts: 25688
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:34 am
Location: Hogeye Arkansas

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by dbt1949 »

Back in my day...................
Ye Olde Farte
Double Ought Forty
aka dbt1949
User avatar
YellowKing
Posts: 30126
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by YellowKing »

You not only have to get Trumpy soldiers, you have to get Trumpy soldiers willing to turn their guns on fellow Americans. I'm guessing that's a much smaller subset.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but I think we've still got a really long way to go before we reach that point. While it's easy to get sucked into the mindset that all Trump voters are bloodthirsty, radicalized cultists, the reality is that the vast majority of them are just regular folks who wouldn't dream of breaking the law over politics, much less engage in civil war over it.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82093
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

dbt1949 wrote:Back in my day...................
We haven’t had the National Guard gun down any protesters yet.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by El Guapo »

YellowKing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:06 pm You not only have to get Trumpy soldiers, you have to get Trumpy soldiers willing to turn their guns on fellow Americans. I'm guessing that's a much smaller subset.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but I think we've still got a really long way to go before we reach that point. While it's easy to get sucked into the mindset that all Trump voters are bloodthirsty, radicalized cultists, the reality is that the vast majority of them are just regular folks who wouldn't dream of breaking the law over politics, much less engage in civil war over it.
Yeah, I don't think that we're there now. But give Trump or some Trump substitute some more time in the White House and we'll get there eventually - the bigger question is how long it would take.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Little Raven
Posts: 8608
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:26 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by Little Raven »

Jaymann wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:43 pmI have a feeling most of those women have been duped into granting males the real power.
Nobody is fooling anyone.
/. "She climbed backwards out her
\/ window into Outside Over There."
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by LordMortis »

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:01 am
dbt1949 wrote:Back in my day...................
We haven’t had the National Guard gun down any protesters yet.
That's the stuff I keep reminding myself of. It's bad. it's a bad trajectory. But we're still in a better place than we were 50 years ago. And we've recovered from worse trajectories, short of the one in 1860. Circumstances are different but we're still not at the end of a rope.

So for me, my preparation is the 2022 elections at this time.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: The fall of US democracy preparation thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

El Guapo wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:11 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:26 pm
YellowKing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:19 pm There's the rub - do you think the GOP can garner enough military support to keep the nation's majority from open revolt? I'm not yet convinced.
Can the nation's majority get off its collective ass to revolt?
It's not really about open revolt. It's more about whether security forces are willing to shoot peaceful protestors on behalf of the regime.
Peaceful protestors with or without firearms?
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
Post Reply