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The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

For discussion of religion and politics

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Defiant
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Defiant »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:54 pm
Kraken wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:23 pm I'm starting to entertain the idea that democracy isn't up to the challenge and might not be worth saving.
I am thinking our legacy will be to serve as an example of what happens when a significant portion of a society values personal liberty above everything else.
I think you mean "values screwing the rest of society above everything else". What they want is liberal tears, not personal liberty.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Grifman »

Defiant wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:30 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:54 pm
Kraken wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:23 pm I'm starting to entertain the idea that democracy isn't up to the challenge and might not be worth saving.
I am thinking our legacy will be to serve as an example of what happens when a significant portion of a society values personal liberty above everything else.
I think you mean "values screwing the rest of society above everything else". What they want is liberal tears, not personal liberty.
Yeah, I think it has less to do with personal liberty (though there is some of that) but is more about a cultish allegiance to Trump. To wear a mask or get a vaccine means Trump was wrong about the severity of the pandemic, and that would mean they were wrong about supporting Trump. And "god" and the true believers just can't be wrong.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Grifman wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:33 pm
Defiant wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:30 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:54 pm
Kraken wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:23 pm I'm starting to entertain the idea that democracy isn't up to the challenge and might not be worth saving.
I am thinking our legacy will be to serve as an example of what happens when a significant portion of a society values personal liberty above everything else.
I think you mean "values screwing the rest of society above everything else". What they want is liberal tears, not personal liberty.
Yeah, I think it has less to do with personal liberty (though there is some of that) but is more about a cultish allegiance to Trump. To wear a mask or get a vaccine means Trump was wrong about the severity of the pandemic, and that would mean they were wrong about supporting Trump. And "god" and the true believers just can't be wrong.
I think it's the opposite. Individual liberty above all things is the bigger portion but it has been amped up inside the cult of Trump. Vaccine hesitancy is not new. The 1918 pandemic had similar issues around mask mandates being labeled 'governmental overreach'. Trumpism is like a forest fire which found fuel all over the place to burn wild. Is some of this a rally around the literal Trump flag effect? Certainly but many of them aligned with these views already, found room to act as they wanted free from social conventions, and converted others using toxic social media.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I could easily spin the personal liberty angle into the gun insanity to demonstrate how the idea has poisoned our society, but this is a thread on COVID19.

Contrast what's happening in America to what Macron just said for France:
“I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you stay at home,not us. In France, those who do not get vaccinated will no longer be able to go to restaurants, cafes (from the beginning of August), cinemas and museums (from July 21) and get on airplanes or trains (again from August). Alternatively, you will have to submit a negative test, which will no longer be free (49 euros for the PCR, 29 for the antigen).

"We cannot make those who have the civic sense to get vaccinated bear the burden of inconvenience," Macron said. "The restrictions will weigh on others, those who for reasons incomprehensible in the country of Louis Pasteur, science and the Enlightenment still hesitate to use the only weapon available against the pandemic, the vaccine."

"I am aware of what I am asking you," he said, "and I know that you are ready for this commitment. This is, in a sense, part of your sense of duty."
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Skinypupy »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:44 am Contrast what's happening in America to what Macron just said for France:
“I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you stay at home,not us.

"I am aware of what I am asking you," he said, "and I know that you are ready for this commitment. This is, in a sense, part of your sense of duty."
I love this statement...and could you even begin to imagine the conservative howling that would happen if it were to be said here.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by coopasonic »

So the french are just surrendering to the vaccine? Yeah, that makes sense!

I know that statement does not remotely reflect the facts. Does that matter anymore?
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by $iljanus »

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:29 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:44 am Contrast what's happening in America to what Macron just said for France:
“I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you stay at home,not us.

"I am aware of what I am asking you," he said, "and I know that you are ready for this commitment. This is, in a sense, part of your sense of duty."
I love this statement...and could you even begin to imagine the conservative howling that would happen if it were to be said here.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by hepcat »

Honestly, at this point, I've no sympathy for anyone who refuses to get vaccinated and ends up in the ground. You made the conscious decision to willfully ignore facts in favor of politics. That is on you. :hand:
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Skinypupy »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:44 am I could easily spin the personal liberty angle into the gun insanity to demonstrate how the idea has poisoned our society, but this is a thread on COVID19.

Contrast what's happening in America to what Macron just said for France:
“I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you stay at home,not us. In France, those who do not get vaccinated will no longer be able to go to restaurants, cafes (from the beginning of August), cinemas and museums (from July 21) and get on airplanes or trains (again from August). Alternatively, you will have to submit a negative test, which will no longer be free (49 euros for the PCR, 29 for the antigen).

"We cannot make those who have the civic sense to get vaccinated bear the burden of inconvenience," Macron said. "The restrictions will weigh on others, those who for reasons incomprehensible in the country of Louis Pasteur, science and the Enlightenment still hesitate to use the only weapon available against the pandemic, the vaccine."

"I am aware of what I am asking you," he said, "and I know that you are ready for this commitment. This is, in a sense, part of your sense of duty."
So, while Macron did make those policy restrictions for the unvaccinated, he appears that he didn't actually say any of that.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Zaxxon »

I wondered. Saw that earlier and went to verify but could not find the original--usually something easy to do for a world leader.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:14 pm So, while Macron did make those policy restrictions for the unvaccinated, he appears that he didn't actually say any of that.
Huh. The internet lied to me! I'd seen it shared by a legitimate account and just assumed it was translated from French.

He should have said all of it, because it's true; that is unfortunate. Maybe he'll come out tomorrow and read it. :)
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by El Guapo »

Shouldn't blue states and cities start imposing limits like this? Or at least some type of vaccine passport type system?
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by gbasden »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:41 pm Shouldn't blue states and cities start imposing limits like this? Or at least some type of vaccine passport type system?
Yes. Fuck yes.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

gbasden wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:25 am
El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:41 pm Shouldn't blue states and cities start imposing limits like this? Or at least some type of vaccine passport type system?
Yes. Fuck yes.
But we probably won't.


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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by $iljanus »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:19 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:14 pm So, while Macron did make those policy restrictions for the unvaccinated, he appears that he didn't actually say any of that.
Huh. The internet lied to me! I'd seen it shared by a legitimate account and just assumed it was translated from French.

He should have said all of it, because it's true; that is unfortunate. Maybe he'll come out tomorrow and read it. :)
See? The lamestream media is all lies! Now I gotta get back to reading about this microchip tech they’ve inserted in every vaccine…
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy’s trip to Israel got postponed. Nearly half of House members are masked on the floor again. One Senate Democrat even floated a “proof of vaccination” card to enter the Capitol.

As Covid infections have crept back onto the Hill, they've shattered the sense of calm that had just begun to settle across the complex after the deadly pandemic and insurrection. After a weekslong trudge toward normalcy, fears are now spiking over the highly contagious Delta variant, which the Capitol physician confirmed Tuesday has been reported in Capitol office buildings.

Several fully vaccinated individuals on the Hill have tested positive for the virus — including the first known member of Congress since January — spurring a heightened sense of unease for the thousands of people who traverse the Capitol complex each day.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/2 ... lex-500344
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Skinypupy »

I'm sure that if we can all treat him very nicely, provide relevant data, and seek to understand his feelings, we can finally get through to guys like this.

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

This Tweet still feels relevant.

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

We really do and quite frankly, it's become easier to understand how we will.

In hurt fee fee news


This is a very odd remark, given that 100 percent of Democrats in Congress have said they are vaccinated against the Coronavirus.
Ronny Jackson: I think you as a press have a responsibility to ask questions of the Democrats as well. How many of the Democrats are willing to say whether or not they’ve been vaccinated?
Yes, that Ronny Jackson.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

All I see there is an agenda to continue to recast themselves as victims. It is fascist messaging. I'm so tired how obvious this all is yet everyone keeps pretending like this is just "politics".
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by raydude »

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:21 pm I'm sure that if we can all treat him very nicely, provide relevant data, and seek to understand his feelings, we can finally get through to guys like this.

We need the virus to mutate to the point where you need to have your dick cut off to get better. Then you'd see a change real quick.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Marjorie would certainly take notice.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Elected officials in a Michigan county gave themselves $65,000 in bonuses with federal relief money related to the coronavirus pandemic.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mi ... s-n1274787
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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People like that idiot that wont take a shot because someone is saying he should could just die and get off the planet now. Stop spreading it. Maybe Delta will kill the assholes off.

My town is nuts. At Walmart this morning I counted 5 people with a mask...I made 6. No one else. Im fully vax'd and I dont want Delta. Plus there are people immune compromising and little kids to think of. I hate humans.

I dont give a turtles butt about the shits that wont get vaccinated. I saw one girl who hadn't got one until now because she didn't like shots. I cant believe some grown person is so afraid of shots they'd rather die. Last time I feared a shot I was 4 years old.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LordMortis »

Need more information. If I were a part time guy doing more than full time work during the stresses of the last 18 months I'd also want additional compensation, community suffering or not. I don't know how the money was earmarked or the change in hours worked or what "hazards" warranted additional pay. All that said, if they are the only county doing this, it's suspect, at least of exceptionally poor decision making. But then I can't vote them out.

Edit: Responding to Defiant...
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Daehawk wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:08 pm My town is nuts. At Walmart this morning I counted 5 people with a mask...I made 6. No one else.
With the exception of the doctor's office, I haven't seen a single mask in a month. They simply don't exist anymore.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

While I'm still not eating indoors or visiting indoor retail locations, the few visits I did make to big-box locations over the last ~6 weeks I did so without a mask.

Given what's happening now in my state, I'm not changing my overall behaviors (avoiding crowds, avoiding indoor locations) but I'll be masked up now if I need to do anything where I'm going to be in close quarters to strangers indoors.

I need there to be pain points for people that are are actively resisting vaccination and I need it to happen soon. Support and outreach for those struggling with the idea is of course still important, but we're about to turn another corner here and I'm tired.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:26 pm
Daehawk wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:08 pm My town is nuts. At Walmart this morning I counted 5 people with a mask...I made 6. No one else.
With the exception of the doctor's office, I haven't seen a single mask in a month. They simply don't exist anymore.
I see them a lot worn by restaurant employees. Customers maybe 25%.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Understatement of the decade -- "The honor system does not work"


Here’s the major reason we need to go back to indoor mask mandates in grocery stores & schools: Without a reliable system to determine proof of vaccination, it’s not possible to tell who is vaccinated & who is not. The honor system does not work.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Jaymann wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:33 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:26 pm
Daehawk wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:08 pm My town is nuts. At Walmart this morning I counted 5 people with a mask...I made 6. No one else.
With the exception of the doctor's office, I haven't seen a single mask in a month. They simply don't exist anymore.
I see them a lot worn by restaurant employees. Customers maybe 25%.
I bought a new cotton home made one from the farmers market yesterday. I cant take my KN95 ones this summer for some reason. I cant breath in them. So back to a cloth one for now until cooler weather. $5..and its a TN Vols one with Smokie on it . My wife would be proud :)
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Looks like we've reached that point in an election cycle

Huckabee Sanders vows not to impose mask, vaccine mandates if elected governor of Arkansas
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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So are there any plans to do anything with all that free land that was once Arkansas? Could stink a while but that will clear up after a few months. Lots of insects and carrion birds for a while though.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Frum nails it. I've had it with these leeches and he perfectly talks through why.

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Daehawk »

I still cant grasp that guy that nearly died of covid yet refuses a shot because its good for him or he was told to get it. Thats some serious stubborn stupidity.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Daehawk wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:23 pm I still cant grasp that guy that nearly died of covid yet refuses a shot because its good for him or he was told to get it. Thats some serious stubborn stupidity.
He is both aggressively stupid and a dangerous selfish asshole. Fuck 'em. Seriously. I am done giving a shit about people like that.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Pyperkub »

The insanity of the anti-mask protestors:
Protesters then ask her if she’s familiar with the Civil Rights Act. “Get on the right side of history,” one man says. “You’ve got a lot of anger you need to release. It’s a very dangerous emotion.”

Tensions continued to rise as more far-right, anti-maskers arrived on the scene. A small group of anti-fascists also arrived, and got into altercations with the far-right. A woman holding a megaphone shoved Burns, and then punched her several times. Burns said, on social media, that the woman hit her in the chest and struck her scars.
did she escalate? Yup, verbally. But assault is assault, and it's apparently on camera.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Alefroth »

Weird, I thought that was in Australia until I read the article. At least two people sounded Australian.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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It's a bit callous, but I've reached the point with the trumptard unvaccinated, that if a lot of them die off, the world would be a better place. Maybe enough will die off in a state that can then be flipped blue. Not likely but it is safe to say that many of the ones experiencing darwinism now are trumptards. My concern is obviously a mutation that the vaccine doesn't slow.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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