Fair this is my personal experience talking. I'm immersed in social justice warriors culture and see it up close. The worst of the woke are just different authoritarians in my view at this point and I do find it personally exhausting. To the end that I try not to speak publicly about anything anymore lest I get cancelled for some stray remark. I've seen it happen way too often in my personal circle over innocuous remarks or not sending the right signals.Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:38 amFirst, I get what you are saying.... but I don't really know that I actually feel that way. I mean, personally, I've not been overwhelmed by the very few tweaks I've maybe had to consciously make to my behavior or speech - but I've always had a heavy "wouldn't want to offend" angel on my shoulder, in my "real life / day-to-day", so I think I appreciate being 'shown the path' sometimes... (perhaps to a fault). Ironically, I think I come across as a bit of an offensive jerk on the internet.
Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
- Kurth
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Totally understand you weren’t calling me out, and I didn’t take it as such, so no worries. To avoid further derail, I’ll also switch over to the Racism thread with further comments.Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:32 amFirst, I certainly hope you know I wasn't trying to call you out as having any ill-intent, as I know you didn't. And yeah, it's a 'er for sure... I just saw you use the phrase a few weeks ago, and it struck me that you probably hadn't seen the link that LawBeef had shared...Kurth wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:08 amWTF??? I’ve been using the expression forever and without any inkling that there’s a racial element to it. And no one’s ever suggested there was. Is this something that’s widely known and I’ve just been incredibly ignorant my whole life?Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:46 pm off topic...
That's 3 (times in the last 3 weeks... ) you're out!
I was enlightened myself.
I just googled the phrase, and there’s no mention of any racial element on Wikipedia, not that that’s the be all and end all, but still . . .
Edited to add: After doing a little more googling, the only source I see that suggests the idiom “to call a spade a spade” is racist is the NPR Codeswitch article which acknowledges that the origins of the phrase have no racial component and that:
That notwithstanding, NPR concludes that:For almost half a millennium, the phrase has served as a demand to "tell it like it is."
So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."
Personally, I've certainly used the phrase before - but I can use other phrases instead, so I'll likely just not use it... as Mieder concluded.
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- Holman
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
What the hell is up with his movements? Is he on horse tranquilizers?
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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- Holman
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
I'd sympathize if he weren't a fucking Nazi.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Kinzinger in.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
And we are off!
@DougJBalloon as usual has a humorous take on how this will get covered.
@DougJBalloon as usual has a humorous take on how this will get covered.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Fanone with a powerful moment. I've been watching all these police officers talk. Listening to these officers talk was a powerful way to open the hearings. These accounts are harrowing. We aren't learning anything new but it should be played on a loop side-by-side with GOP members downplaying this or calling this effort partisan by the MSM outlets.
- LawBeefaroni
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
They were supposed to yield to the chosen ones. After all, some of the flag poles used to beat them once flew blue line flags.
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- LordMortis
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Depends on whether Trump thinks he did something bad to him.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Side note - it's truly bizarre to watch a Congressional hearing that is...sane. No crazy outbursts. No grand standing. No conspiracy nonsense. No dog whistles. I have to think this might be the last time we'll see the "old normal" for a long-time in Congress.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
I look forward to the statement from Trump later today calling all these officers who testified "losers" and "liars" and calling Cheney and Kinzinger "weak RINOs". That'll show 'em!
C'mon Twittler...you know you want to.
C'mon Twittler...you know you want to.
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- Jaymann
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Well the witless part anyway.
Jaymann
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- Skinypupy
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
This is pretty funny, although part of me wishes they just would have let the treasonweasels spout their nonsense so everyone could hear (yet again) the true depths of their treasonweasel-ness.
An attempt to hold a press conference by Marjorie Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz and company was just shut down by protesters
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
That was weird. A press conference with just about no one there, with no form stopped cold by someone with a whistle.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Almost like it was all intended to be performative outrage from the start.LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:09 pm That was weird. A press conference with just about no one there, with no form stopped cold by someone with a whistle.
Nah, couldn't be...
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
It's pretty much a side show act at this point. Gohmert, Gosar, Gaetz, MTG...it is a bunch of the wackiest insurrectionists you can think of. No one gives a shit about them hence why they were only being covered by an online only fascist-adjacent streaming broadcaster.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Here's a concept: don't hold a press conference on a public sidewalk.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
I'm late to the party, but I appreciate the Beau shtick. Started watching him at a point where he was doing nothing to disuade the ex military vibe that he banks on. Watched a video where it became clear he was an activist journalist, looked a little more and realized he never served, was a private contractor, eventually got busted for human trafficking/ smuggling Served time, And became (presumably) an activist. It took me a few months but I find his posts insightful again. I wish he didn't give quite so much rope for people to hoodwink themselves. It leaves the revealer feeling lied to rather than illuminated. But otoh, that's kind of his point. Judge a book by its cover and you might findLittle Raven wrote:"Beau" is a persona. Justin King is almost certainly nothing like him.
Which doesn't invalidate everything he says...just know what you're getting.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Can Trump be subpoenaed?
- Jaymann
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
I would think so. But as always, what are the consequences if he blows it off?
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
The DOJ has already released guidance saying Trump officials are fair game for subpoenas and the word is that the DOJ is also on board for actually pursuing criminal contempt actions if people refuse to appear. In absence of that Pelosi might have to convinced to allow the exercise of their inherent contempt powers.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Great news. Eric Swalwell's lawsuit against Mo Brooks for his actions on 1/6 won't be spiked by the DOJ.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Here's the behavior in question:
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Absolute trash
- Blackhawk
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
We could have written a synopsis of today's speeches and comments last night. The same people will say the same things. In fact, we probably could have done the same for our own comments. I'm mostly interested in any actions that come out of it, or documents or testimony that are forced out that prove connections or support.
In other words, I'll just skim and catch the highlights.
In other words, I'll just skim and catch the highlights.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
I'm seeing similar comments on my NextDoor app, which appears to be essentially a cesspool of Trumpists who CAN'T READ THE FUCKING RULES ABOUT NO POLITICAL POSTS ON NEXTDOOR.
Big thread today about how all these police officers were either actors or hypocrites who supported the George Floyd protests.
Big thread today about how all these police officers were either actors or hypocrites who supported the George Floyd protests.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
I've seen many posts and you can watch the cognitive dissonance and propaganda propagation in real-time. It spreads extremely fast and it is extremely dangerous. I'll keep saying it. Prepare yourselves. Democracies are fragile to begin with and there is an onslaught of outright information warfare attacks on it that aren't even being defended right now.
Last edited by malchior on Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Smoove_B
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
I guess Gym Jordan admitted last night on Brett Baier that he spoke with President Trump on 1/6 as the events were unfolding? So...basically admitting to being a witness. I look forward to seeing him getting a delicious subpoena.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- Kurth
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
Trump needs a subpoena. And if he refuses to comply, he needs jail.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
I just watched that clip for the first time in its entirety. Brooks is clearly riling up the crowd. He obviously is exhorting them to "fight" for America. But he's not openly advocating for violence unless you take his use of the word "fight" literally, which is a bit of a stretch.
Does anyone have a link to a copy of Swalwell's complaint? I'd like to see what claims he's making. It's really hard to see Brooks' speech - as stupid and wrong as it is - as anything other than protected political speech after having watched that video.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
That's the rub - there is a balance that needs to be struck in this analysis. Could it be political protected speech if that wasn't tied to repeated exhortations and a cumulative effect? Sure. But after months of lying about the outcome of the election, after the sloganeering, after inviting them there on that day, and exhorting them like that? He is an elected figure. He has a responsibility there to be careful with his words. So in the end it's muddy as hell. That's why I'm more than fine with a jury deciding what they think about it.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
I have a really hard time imagining a judge letting a criminal charge go to a jury against an elected figure for telling a crowd to "fight" for America. I think there's a high chance that Brooks fully knew what he was doing, but "fight" is just used way too much in standard rhetoric for that to be enough for a criminal charge.malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:19 pm That's the rub - there is a balance that needs to be struck in this analysis. Could it be political protected speech if that wasn't tied to repeated exhortations and a cumulative effect? Sure. But after months of lying about the outcome of the election, after the sloganeering, after inviting them there on that day, and exhorting them like that? He is an elected figure. He has a responsibility there to be careful with his words. So in the end it's muddy as hell. That's why I'm more than fine with a jury deciding what they think about it.
Now, if they found some evidence in e-mails or something that Brooks had the specific intent of inciting a riot or the like, that would change things. But the video's not enough.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
At least, I hope it's not. Can you imagine the precedent that would set? You could never have another BLM rally again.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread
I totally agree the video's not enough. The case would have to be framed in a pattern of conduct and communications. That is what I mean when I'm talking about 'cumulative effect'. I highly doubt Swalwell's lawsuit rests solely on his conduct on 1/6.El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:24 pmI have a really hard time imagining a judge letting a criminal charge go to a jury against an elected figure for telling a crowd to "fight" for America. I think there's a high chance that Brooks fully knew what he was doing, but "fight" is just used way too much in standard rhetoric for that to be enough for a criminal charge.malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:19 pm That's the rub - there is a balance that needs to be struck in this analysis. Could it be political protected speech if that wasn't tied to repeated exhortations and a cumulative effect? Sure. But after months of lying about the outcome of the election, after the sloganeering, after inviting them there on that day, and exhorting them like that? He is an elected figure. He has a responsibility there to be careful with his words. So in the end it's muddy as hell. That's why I'm more than fine with a jury deciding what they think about it.
Now, if they found some evidence in e-mails or something that Brooks had the specific intent of inciting a riot or the like, that would change things. But the video's not enough.
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