Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sun May 16, 2021 12:39 pm

Graham sees his chance to get his ugly face on tv again. Funny how he speaks about us being an easy target for Russia when all he did before was claim Russia never did anything and Trump opened the front and back doors to them along with his sorry ass.

Lindsey Graham Calls Out Biden on Colonial Pipeline Hack Response: 'Weak'

"Ineffective, weak," Graham said Saturday evening during an interview with Fox News host Jeanine Pirro, sharing his reaction to Biden's response to the crisis. "The one thing we haven't seen from Joe Biden is a deterrent approach. Is anybody in Russia afraid of hitting us again? The idea of graduating people to go into cybersecurity is not what I was looking for. I was looking for putting the Kremlin on notice," the GOP lawmaker said.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sun May 16, 2021 7:09 pm

This pretty much sums it up.

Looking ahead to ‘22 and ‘24, what do Republicans think the party’s strategy should be?

53% say the party needs to focus on message and ideas to win over more voters, but 47% say the GOP already has enough voters and should focus on pushing for changes to voting rules instead.

David Frum was absolutely right, and it's being proved over and over again.

If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Mon May 17, 2021 1:31 am

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 7:09 pm This pretty much sums it up.

Looking ahead to ‘22 and ‘24, what do Republicans think the party’s strategy should be?

53% say the party needs to focus on message and ideas to win over more voters, but 47% say the GOP already has enough voters and should focus on pushing for changes to voting rules instead.
David Frum was absolutely right, and it's being proved over and over again.

If TRUMPALOOS become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon TRUMPISM. They will reject democracy.

I’m not really sure I’m getting the language Frum is using. I tried to fix that for you. I think it’s a stretch to say that the current makeup of the GOP has anything to do with being a conservative or pushing for conservative principles or policies.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Mon May 17, 2021 1:41 am

I think it was a couple months back that I "predicted" that the Republican party will go through what KMT did in Taiwan... a splinter party will form, the main party will reform, and they have a merger, years down the road when they realized they are both weaker for the split.

There is now a threat of a split.

More than 100 Republicans, including some former elected officials, are preparing to release a letter this week threatening to form a third party if the Republican Party does not make certain changes, according to an organizer of the effort.

IMHO, all the voter suppression laws being passed right now are both a kneejerk reaction to "how could we have lost" as well as the answer to "we have to save what we have" combined with "we can't win like this so..."

I get what Frum was saying... GOP no longer cares about "democracy" but "keep themselves in power".

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon May 17, 2021 12:31 pm

McSweeney's sums up the thread...

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/eve ... ican-party

These past two weeks have been dark. And I know a thing or two about darkness, because I’m the prince of it. And while I enjoy chaos and carnage as much as the next demon, I have to say that this shitshow goes beyond what I’d consider an appropriate amount of insanity. I guess we’ve finally reached the point where even I, Satan, am appalled at the state of the Republican Party.

Obviously, this has been a long time coming. And don’t get me wrong, nobody has enjoyed watching the Republican Party’s gradual slide into moral decrepitude as much as I have. A war on drugs that actually made the drug problem way worse? Genius! Using one anecdotal example of welfare fraud to throw millions of people under the economic bus? MUAH! Starting a war to protect U.S. oil interests that’s lasted so long that children born after the war started are now fighting and dying in it? I practically creamed my JNCO jeans. Aside from prosperity gospel evangelical pastors, no group in America has done more to bring me millions of doomed souls so I can subject them to an eternity of testicle scorpions and labia papercuts.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed May 19, 2021 4:05 pm

Still going with "a cult". Is it too early for polls?

2024 National Republican Primary:

Trump 48%
Pence 13%
DeSantis 8%
Trump Jr. 7%
Romney 4%
Haley 4%
Cruz 4%
Tim Scott 2%
Rubio 1%
Noem 1%
Pompeo 1%
Cheney 1%
Hawley 0%
Hogan 0%

Rick Scott 0%

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed May 19, 2021 4:07 pm

I'm surprised that Pence even has 13 percent. He didn't protect the dear leader.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Wed May 19, 2021 4:08 pm

How much more does Hawley have to do to support the insurrection before he can get 1%?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed May 19, 2021 4:15 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:08 pm How much more does Hawley have to do to support the insurrection before he can get 1%?

This is what's so frustrating and idiotic about Hawley. He's doing all this obeisance, only he's just going to bow down to Trump if and when Trump runs. Even if Trump doesn't...I don't think he'll ever really be trusted by the MAGA base no matter what he does.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed May 19, 2021 4:18 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:08 pm How much more does Hawley have to do to support the insurrection before he can get 1%?

Screw that, how the hell can 4% think Cruz is the best option!?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed May 19, 2021 4:21 pm

I think Hawley simply hasn't broken through because he isn't well known. This will change as his ambition levels come up. As they do, he'll start acting out like Cruz and Graham do (i.e., public affirmations of Trump-y stuff and conservative virtue signaling). One problem is he needs to compete with them to get himself in front of cameras as well. It takes a lot of work. When his book came out he did something like 20 interviews in a week. That was a change and is probably near a normal level for a Graham or Cruz.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed May 19, 2021 4:45 pm

I think everyone is reading too much into it. The party is clearly now defined by Trump; while he is alive there is no better choice; The GOP is gone; it's the party of Trump.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed May 19, 2021 4:59 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:18 pm
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:08 pm How much more does Hawley have to do to support the insurrection before he can get 1%?
Screw that, how the hell can 4% think Cruz is the best option!?

More than 4% don't live in Texas.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed May 19, 2021 5:18 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:18 pm
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:08 pm How much more does Hawley have to do to support the insurrection before he can get 1%?
Screw that, how the hell can 4% think Cruz is the best option!?

Cruz has always positioned himself as the heir to Buckley's Ivy-league conservatism, and (despite his willingness to endorse total nonsense) he somehow manages to get press coverage as an intellectual. Plus he has never stopped polishing his Christian-Right bonafides. He's the pretentious choice of college-educated Southern reactionaries who still find Trump too gauche and NewYorkey.

I'm pretty sure my father supported Cruz over Trump in the 2016 primary.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed May 19, 2021 8:59 pm

This is a sound argument.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed May 19, 2021 9:22 pm

I mean, it’s an argument made with sound…

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed May 19, 2021 11:18 pm

Serial murderers have fans. So does Cruz.

The Republican Party has fallen to the single-issue extremists who will accept anything so long as their pet issue (anti-tax, anti-regulation, anti-abortion, anti-immigrant, pro-military, pro-gun, anti-environment, etc.) is adopted. The ends justify the means.

The rot has been growing for over 40 years (two generations), and the hysterical propaganda is engrained. Trump has shown the Republican Party that selling that poison works.

The Democrats are afraid of it — but even a moderate Biden is being portrayed as extreme. It’s time to stop being scared and challenge the bullshit.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri May 21, 2021 5:18 pm

Cheney primary challenger says he impregnated 14-year-old when he was 18

A state senator in Wyoming who's running against U.S. Rep. Liz Cheney and four others in a Republican primary acknowledged he impregnated a 14-year-old girl when he was 18, vowing not to end his campaign for Congress.

Oh sure everyone has this problem.

"Everybody has something in their life that they did ... We’ve all had these problems. Why is this a big deal?" state Sen. Anthony Bouchard said Thursday in a Facebook Live video about the relationship.

Totally.

You've heard those stories before. She was a little younger than me, so it's like the Romeo and Juliet story," he said.

He said he tried to "do the right thing" and told the paper he married the girl when she was 15. They later went through what he described as "kind of a bitter divorce," and Bouchard told the Star-Tribune the ex-wife died by suicide when she was 20.

So he woulda kept it quiet except some ass was investigating him and found it ...hahaha

He said he was speaking out because the "establishment swamp" had investigators digging into his past on behalf of an unidentified opponent. Bouchard was the first Wyoming Republican to announce that he was challenging Cheney for her seat, and four others have since joined the race.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri May 21, 2021 5:58 pm

Yeah, but does he support Trump?

That story is awful in so many ways. Apparently he's estranged from the child because of his poor life choices.

I guess we get to see how the GOP responds to an admitted child rapist.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Fri May 21, 2021 6:18 pm

He gets a ringing endorsement from Matt Gaetz.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri May 21, 2021 6:57 pm

Roy Moore is gritting his teeth. "Ah nevah e'en got to impregnent one o' mine!"

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sun May 23, 2021 6:04 pm

U.S. Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene, Matt Gaetz to hold Dalton rally

Who's going?

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon May 24, 2021 7:41 pm

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 1:41 am I think it was a couple months back that I "predicted" that the Republican party will go through what KMT did in Taiwan... a splinter party will form, the main party will reform, and they have a merger, years down the road when they realized they are both weaker for the split.

There is precedent of integrity leading to certain defeat. In 1986 Adlai Stevenson III ran for governor against Jim Thompson, a popular incumbent. Stevenson won the Democrat primary, but his choice for Lt. Governor and Secretary of State did not -- instead, disciples of Lyndon LaRouche won those nominations. Splitting from the Democratic party was sure death for Stevenson at the polls, but he did just that, forming an alternate party that lost by 400,000 votes. With the LaRouchies on the ballot, the Democrats nearly lost their standing as a major party with 5% of the vote. I did not vote for Stevenson -- Thompson was a very popular governor and IIRC ruled for 4 terms.

It would take until the George Ryan scandal before the Dems got back in control (and they did it with Blago and we all know how that turned out). The point is the party did come back from a near-death experience. And the party is improving, I think, party strongman and the picture shown under the dictionary definition of corruption, Mike Madigan, was deposed, hopefully dispelling the notion that current gov JB Pritzker was his cabana boy (I've never thought this to be the case, although he might have benefitted from a good working relationship with Madigan).

The biggest danger is a failed Biden administration. Biden either needs to make it 2 terms, and/or pass the torch to Harris and she carry on another 2 terms. That might be enough time to purge the Trumptards, and for something bad enough to happen that the elephants can ride a mandate for change. However, the biggest challenge for the splitters is to get themselves re-elected, if they can't win under the AFT Party banner, the rebellion might be short-lived. With the polarity in politics these days, even the more astute elephants might have trouble they are voting in the interest of their constituents going with Democratic policies, even if they are doing just that.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon May 24, 2021 9:41 pm

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon May 24, 2021 9:48 pm

Of course he does.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon May 24, 2021 9:50 pm

Send him a box of Florida Man dildos. Every day.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue May 25, 2021 1:06 am

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue May 25, 2021 1:53 am

And I just saw that I missed this being discussed in the investigation thread earlier this afternoon. Sorry!

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue May 25, 2021 12:49 pm

Zero sympathy for this type of anonymous cowardice. Many of them rode the train the *WHOLE TIME*. They knew who he was.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue May 25, 2021 12:50 pm

And if that's really true...doesn't that make it *more* important to act? Do they think it's going to magically get better?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue May 25, 2021 12:55 pm

No one wants to be first and out there alone. They just saw what happened to Liz Cheney as the GOP coalesced to push her out. It would take a behind the scenes coordination of GOP members to all agree to come out at once in opposition and hope that there's too many of them to be targeted.

Instead, they'll privately voice opposition but vote the party line when asked.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue May 25, 2021 12:58 pm

Honestly I wouldn't believe them anyway. A large number of these proclamations would probably be tied to cynical hedging in case this all falls apart somehow.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue May 25, 2021 1:04 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 12:55 pm No one wants to be first and out there alone. They just saw what happened to Liz Cheney as the GOP coalesced to push her out. It would take a behind the scenes coordination of GOP members to all agree to come out at once in opposition and hope that there's too many of them to be targeted.

Instead, they'll privately voice opposition but vote the party line when asked.

Honestly I think this quote is 90% self-serving horse shit. The reality is that they don't want to speak up: (1) because it would nix for the short and medium term any plans to run for office; (2) it would nix 90% of Republican lobbying and speaking gigs (main reason for formers and soon to be formers); and (3) they agree with the bulk of the policy outcomes generated by Trumpism.

But they don't want to say most of that, so "hey, these people are crazy so they'll come after my family" is a better sounding excuse. Not that it's complete nonsense, and maybe they believe it to some degree, but it's not the real reason.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Tue May 25, 2021 4:45 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 1:04 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 12:55 pm No one wants to be first and out there alone. They just saw what happened to Liz Cheney as the GOP coalesced to push her out. It would take a behind the scenes coordination of GOP members to all agree to come out at once in opposition and hope that there's too many of them to be targeted.

Instead, they'll privately voice opposition but vote the party line when asked.
Honestly I think this quote is 90% self-serving horse shit. The reality is that they don't want to speak up: (1) because it would nix for the short and medium term any plans to run for office; (2) it would nix 90% of Republican lobbying and speaking gigs (main reason for formers and soon to be formers); and (3) they agree with the bulk of the policy outcomes generated by Trumpism.

But they don't want to say most of that, so "hey, these people are crazy so they'll come after my family" is a better sounding excuse. Not that it's complete nonsense, and maybe they believe it to some degree, but it's not the real reason.

Agree...fuck that noise. And yeah, being an adult is hard, most of the time. On top of that, these people are in theory supposed to be leaders, not acting like whiny 14 year olds being bullied by the fat orange kid after 3rd period. BUT HE'S SO SCARY!!!

This kind of anonymous bs, if true, just cements the idea that, at least this person knew how shitty and cowardly they have been, and are looking for some kind of sympathy for their tough plight of a displeased Trump. I don't buy the "fear for my family" argument at all.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue May 25, 2021 5:17 pm

Trump's foot soldiers are trying to muscle into leadership in some GOP-controlled areas now. Behind some of this is actual threats against sitting GOP officials. It isn't total lunacy but I think it's more at the state level and not federal candidates.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed May 26, 2021 9:29 am

I liked Dan Rather's comment on FB this morning.

The reality is we have a sharp partisan divide in this country. And that divide is largely over reality.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed May 26, 2021 9:45 am

malchior wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:17 pm Trump's foot soldiers are trying to muscle into leadership in some GOP-controlled areas now. Behind some of this is actual threats against sitting GOP officials. It isn't total lunacy but I think it's more at the state level and not federal candidates.

That's strange to me. Aren't they just patriots and tourists and shouldn't we just let this all remain in the past?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu May 27, 2021 12:53 am

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Thu May 27, 2021 2:40 am

Now he's just an ordinary average guy.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu May 27, 2021 6:44 am

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 2:40 am Now he's just an ordinary average guy.

You are living an life of illusion.