Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu May 27, 2021 12:35 pm

New poll on QAnon beliefs: 23 percent of Republicans polled say the government, media, and finance are "controlled by a group of Satan-worshipping pedophiles."

So yeah, a fraction of Americans in total, but a fraction that votes...and has people in positions of power.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu May 27, 2021 1:14 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 12:53 am

His own radio show, for how long? He can't complain, life's been good to him so far!

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu May 27, 2021 4:56 pm

How on Earth did Joe "You lie!" Walsh become a relative voice of reason within the GOP? If I'd had to pick a "top 10 Republicans most likely to kowtow to Trump, he'd probably have been on it.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu May 27, 2021 5:11 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:56 pm How on Earth did Joe "You lie!" Walsh become a relative voice of reason within the GOP?

That was Joe Wilson, not Joe Walsh.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu May 27, 2021 5:30 pm

But Walsh's anti-Trump turn was still a major surprise. He was (and remains) far-Right in many ways, and he supported Trump through the 2016 election and into his first year.

If Wikipedia is accurate, Trump's Russia connections and deference to Putin (especially at the Helsinki summit) were the turning point. I remember lots of left-leaning pundits being unsure of what to make of it when Walsh suddenly started hammering Trump as a traitor.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu May 27, 2021 5:31 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 1:14 pm
His own radio show, for how long? He can't complain, life's been good to him so far!

I see what you did there.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sat May 29, 2021 9:05 am

This is an article about Majorie Taylor Greene and what the main town in her districit, Dalton, Ga thinks of her. It's the normal stuff, but this is what stood out to me:

Brandyn Parker is a 37-year-old Republican leather worker at a shop downtown. Standing outside the store Thursday with a possum on a leash, Parker said she too is concerned about how Greene's comments are shaping perceptions of the GOP and the 14th District.

WTF? I want to see the possum on a leash, the heck with what Greene' s district thinks of her. What, CNN, no photo?!?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/29/politics ... index.html

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat May 29, 2021 12:30 pm

I don't think I've read anything else that concisely describes exactly what's going on with the GOP right now:

One thing you see a lot on here is people pointing out the contradictions in the putative views of Trump’s GOP. COVID is a Chinese plot but also a hoax. The insurrection was antifa but also a tour of patriots. What people need to understand is that these contradictions aren’t a SYMPTOM of Trumpism.

They point to its very core - its emotional, psychological appeal to millions of America. The ability to sustain these contradictions is why Trump was elected, how his movement exists.

Ultimately what Trump offers - what fascism offers - is a philosophy of total emotional and psychological indulgence. Believe whatever makes you feel best. Live your politics examined.

Don’t want to take credit for the insurrection, but want to claim its dead as your martyrs? Go ahead! Say it! The Capitol was attacked by antifa but Ashlii Babbit was a hero patriot.

Hate China, but annoyed by the scolding liberals and their masks? Call the coronavirus a Democratic hoax - and at the same time, a deadly foreign bioweapon.

Voters aren’t drawn to Trump’s politics because of a specific policy view or really even an ideology. They’re drawn to them because those politics say:

“Please, think whatever is easiest. Indulge in your laziest ideas and basest prejudices. There are no rules.

Save one.”

“You must support the leader. You cannot abandon the leader. Support for the leader absolves you of the burden of rationality and the sin of inconsistency. Indeed, faith in the leader can be proven by embracing irrationality and rejecting consistency. Prove your faith.”

That’s why Trumpism and fascism reliably attract the worst and the weakest, the dumb, the selfish, and the cowardly. It’s an endlessly flexible vessel for their worst vices, willing to forgive anything and let them do anything in exchange for loyalty to the strongman.

The mistake American political thinkers keep making is to try to link Trump to preexisting ideology. There are ideas associated with Trumpism, of course, but THEY are the symptom: what happens when you let people indulge in whatever fleeting hate takes their fancy.

You can’t understand Trump’s rise without looking at this deeper psychological appeal. This is his promise to his voters, it’s why nothing his movement says or believes makes sense, and no one seems to care.

It’s also why we can’t triangulate or maneuver his supporters away from him. They don’t really want any of what we’re offering, anyway - they want the freedom to do and think whatever they feel at any moment, something no liberal of any description could ever promise.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat May 29, 2021 4:37 pm

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat May 29, 2021 9:09 pm

I just spent a few minutes revisiting the first pages of this thread from 2012 and 2013. What a gentler, simpler time, so full of hope and illusion.

I do wonder what OO's erstwhile conservative stalwarts would say in defense of today's GOP. (If they spoke honestly, I mean.)

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Sat May 29, 2021 9:21 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:09 pm I just spent a few minutes revisiting the first pages of this thread from 2012 and 2013. What a gentler, simpler time, so full of hope and illusion.

I do wonder what OO's erstwhile conservative stalwarts would say in defense of today's GOP. (If they spoke honestly, I mean.)

I *think* they've retired from the political thread. Not that I'm a conservative, but I was sort of a knee jerk Jingo, but got cockslapped in the face so many times by reality that my views changed over a four or five year period. I stuck around because I take looooooooooooooooooooooong breaks from this place. When I conclude that it's just not worth debating with people I just check out for a month to a year and come back when I want to. Others just leave completely.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon May 31, 2021 9:14 am

Here is Flynn calling explicitly for a coup or more accurately supporting a question that asked why it didn't happen here.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon May 31, 2021 9:35 am

Mini-Mar? Is that Trump's three-hole course?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon May 31, 2021 11:33 am

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon May 31, 2021 1:46 pm

You mean admitted and pardoned felon Mike Flynn?

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon May 31, 2021 5:57 pm

The GOP continues to attack and threaten American democracy.

Texas Gov. Abbott says he'll target lawmaker pay after Dems block restrictive voting bill

Democrats vowed to continue to fight a Texas bill that would put new restrictions on voting as the state’s Republican governor threatened to cut off funding for the Legislature if they do so.

“I will veto Article 10 of the budget passed by the legislature. Article 10 funds the legislative branch,” Gov. Greg Abbott tweeted Monday. “No pay for those who abandon their responsibilities. Stay tuned.”

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Mon May 31, 2021 6:02 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 5:57 pm The GOP continues to attack and threaten American democracy.

Texas Gov. Abbott says he'll target lawmaker pay after Dems block restrictive voting bill

Democrats vowed to continue to fight a Texas bill that would put new restrictions on voting as the state’s Republican governor threatened to cut off funding for the Legislature if they do so.

“I will veto Article 10 of the budget passed by the legislature. Article 10 funds the legislative branch,” Gov. Greg Abbott tweeted Monday. “No pay for those who abandon their responsibilities. Stay tuned.”

That would deprive these Democrats of about $8K, IIRC. No one is in the TX lege for the $.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon May 31, 2021 8:33 pm

Independent

Lieutenant Colonel Yevgeny "Eugene" Vindman, a US Army officer fired and derided by Donald Trump, said he would be willing to prosecute a court martial of Michael Flynn, the former president's one-time national security adviser, over comments he made suggesting he wanted to see a coup in the US similar to the one that took place in Myanmar.
...
"With these seditious remarks Comrade Flynn may have crossed the line for recall to active duty and court-martial. As a JAG I'm qualified and also happy to prosecute this case," he wrote. "PS, US mil would NEVER support this. We love America."

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon May 31, 2021 9:12 pm

We can only dream the impossible dream.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon May 31, 2021 10:40 pm

Mass. Gov. Charlie Baker, a Republican in a deep blue state, is one of the most popular governors in the US, although not so much with Republicans. With the next gubernatorial election coming up in '22, and Charlie still undeclared, the Mass. GOP's leader is threatening to withhold party support.

It’s no secret that the moderate politics of Governor Charlie Baker look very different from the hardline approach of GOP Chairman Jim Lyons. But as the party faces dwindling vote share, fund-raising, and electoral power — all ahead of a gubernatorial election next year — it can’t afford to back the wrong horse.

Baker is one of the country’s most popular governors, though many of his supporters are Democrats; Lyons’ tenure has left the party with fewer seats in the Legislature and less cash in the bank, a fund-raising dip that followed a rift with Baker’s operation. But as the national Republican party struggles to define itself in the wake of Trump and the Massachusetts GOP fights to survive, the man leading it is doubling down.

Now, the erstwhile Baker ally is weaponizing party bylaws in a bid to oust the governor from the GOP’s political operation, a strategy with heavy implications for next year’s governor’s race.

Undermining the Massachusetts GOP’s most popular elected official might seem counterproductive in a state where Republicans are scarce, beloved ones even scarcer. But it’s nothing new for Lyons.

Critics say Lyons’ combative strategy, centered on national controversies and cultural battles, has failed. But conservative activists say electing a moderate to the governor’s office has gotten the party nowhere. Elected Republicans may need to compromise in liberal Massachusetts, but the party itself shouldn’t yield on important principles, they contend.

If this fellow has his way, the party will shun their shoo-in incumbent for being insufficiently trumpy.

Several state party officials said Lyons is singularly focused on ousting the governor, even if it means Republicans lose the office. Some believe Lyons would prefer a small, conservative Massachusetts Republican party over a larger, ideologically diverse one.

Lyons’ tactics make up a scorched earth policy that’s “all about getting rid of Baker,” one high-ranking party official said.

Infighting keeps the party from making progress, Republicans said.

“We have to stop attacking each other,” one prominent Republican said. “We’re like a bunch of cannibals.”

To others, though, the divisions — and conversations about distancing Baker from the party — are necessary.

“Yes, it does hurt our goal of beating Democrats. But this fight actually needs to happen or else we will continue in a downward spiral,” said Todd Taylor, a Republican state committeeman. “One side or the other has to win.”

One-party states have their own problems (hence our habit of choosing moderate Republican governors), so I hope that the trumpsters don't succeed in driving their party into oblivion, as they appear hell-bent on doing.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:49 am

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 8:33 pm Independent

Lieutenant Colonel Yevgeny "Eugene" Vindman, a US Army officer fired and derided by Donald Trump, said he would be willing to prosecute a court martial of Michael Flynn, the former president's one-time national security adviser, over comments he made suggesting he wanted to see a coup in the US similar to the one that took place in Myanmar.
...
"With these seditious remarks Comrade Flynn may have crossed the line for recall to active duty and court-martial. As a JAG I'm qualified and also happy to prosecute this case," he wrote. "PS, US mil would NEVER support this. We love America."

Classic Doublethink in the face of video proof:

Julian Sanchez
@normative

Apparently Michael Flynn’s derangment is tempered by cowardice: He’s now attempting to retcon his endorsement of a military coup at a QAnon event & pretend he said the opposite of what he is caught on video saying.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:08 am

Fed made a similar observation this morning.

Flynn’s say-it-then-deny-that’s-what-he-said routine is very typical of the moral cowardice of Trumpists — say things to rile the base and then angrily deny you said them, moving the window a bit each time.

The sad thing is that it absolutely works with the MAGA crowd. I've seen three of my MAGA family on FB this morning angrily denouncing "the corrupt media" as putting words into Flynn's mouth and claiming that he said nothing of the sort.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:05 pm

And the next time someone says it, they'll push it a little more. Wait for the outrage to die down, rinse repeat. Until one day 2 years from now they're openly calling for an armed coup and everybody just shrugs.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:33 pm

Meanwhile Trump is reportedly feeding this. The danger is very, very real folks. Keep preparing.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:35 pm

Ya if you look at his blog he's waiting for the bs audits to report fraud and then the shit will really hit the fan.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:36 pm

I think that's just part of the continuing grift. He has to keep feeding the followers some hope to keep the money flowing in. When August comes and goes, there will be a new deadline.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:46 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:36 pm I think that's just part of the continuing grift. He has to keep feeding the followers some hope to keep the money flowing in. When August comes and goes, there will be a new deadline.

Oh of course. There is little chance of anything happening near-term. But the real danger, the slightly less near-term danger so to speak is that he is feeding hopeful lies to a horde of insurrectionists eating away at the walls.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:52 pm

Well, the other thing is that Roger Stone was saying the other day that he expects that Trump will be indicted for tax fraud or bank fraud over the next few weeks, and NY is running a grand jury on this stuff at the moment. A lot of this stuff is likely set up so that Trump and the right wing media bubble can get geared up to push "Trump is getting indicted because the Deep State knows that he's about to blow the lid off of the election fraud" storylines in the event that Trump is indicted.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:11 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:52 pm Well, the other thing is that Roger Stone was saying the other day that he expects that Trump will be indicted for tax fraud or bank fraud over the next few weeks, and NY is running a grand jury on this stuff at the moment. A lot of this stuff is likely set up so that Trump and the right wing media bubble can get geared up to push "Trump is getting indicted because the Deep State knows that he's about to blow the lid off of the election fraud" storylines in the event that Trump is indicted.

Trump might get indicted for tax fraud, but it seems unlikely to me. And I don't see anyway he will get convicted when a viable defense is "I thought it was legal." I could see his CFO or others along those lines having real problems if illegal things were done, though.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:28 pm

Anything Roger Stone says has to be assumed to be for propaganda effect. Most of the lawsplainers I saw thought a grand jury process would go months and likely wouldn't lead to Trump being indicted anytime soon. The next few weeks stuff is just Stone injecting dangerous pressure into the conversation to continue moving things further along the negative trend line.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:20 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:28 pm Anything Roger Stone says has to be assumed to be for propaganda effect. Most of the lawsplainers I saw thought a grand jury process would go months and likely wouldn't lead to Trump being indicted anytime soon. The next few weeks stuff is just Stone injecting dangerous pressure into the conversation to continue moving things further along the negative trend line.

I agree. I don't take anything Roger Stone says as indicative of actual fact, but it provides potential insight into what Trumpworld is thinking about and what it wants to have communicated to its base.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:43 am

YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:05 pm And the next time someone says it, they'll push it a little more. Wait for the outrage to die down, rinse repeat. Until one day 2 years from now they're openly calling for an armed coup and everybody just shrugs.

For posterity: I think it will happen much sooner than 2 years.

Things are at a fever pitch, and I don't see anyone capable or interested enough (like doing the really hard shit that it would take, possibly resulting in ending own careers/influence/legacies) to bring things down enough to a simmer for real communication. Not sure anyone even WANTS that anymore honestly. Most are already dug in to their respective side, and have already written off their ideological opponents as unreasonable and non-responsive. Obviously I hope I am missing something, and there IS some hope for a lessening of political tension, but I think we are too far up the trajectory for that now.

It IS interesting...if anyone needs a silver lining!

Boil it down, we are dealing with children. Children with lots of rage and lots of guns. You can't reason. You can't even bank on any kind of empathy or understanding. It's all "ME!!! MINE!! I WANT!!! NOW!!! I DESERVE!!! IT'S NOT FAIR!!! YOU CHEATED, SO I'M GOING TO CHEAT! I DON'T LIKE YOU OR YOUR IDEAS, SO I'M GOING TO KNOCK YOUR BLOCKS DOWN!" How do you reasonably talk with someone, or a group, with that mindset?

What's so damn frustrating is that it's taken the Media so long (and really still have not done it appropriately in most cases) to understand that one very specific side is acting like spoiled, angry, entitled brats who will burn the house down if they don't get their way. "well, maybe if we give them the benefit of the doubt, understanding will magically occur. Well they probably won't REALLY burn the house down, even though they already poured gas everywhere, and are loosely holding a lit pack of matches. Etc"

And I still don't have the answer....I've dealt with toddlers - angry, crying toddlers who thought I was a HUGE MEANIE. But said toddlers weren't holding an ice pick 2 inches from my eyeball at the time. It DOES make a difference.

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:03 pm

We need to arrest a lot of the GOP and unroll those fuckers using the RICO laws. Because the GOP by this point is just one big crime organization. No one listens to me when I say this but it's the only way we are going to avert a collapse or a civil war.

In 2022 or 2024 when the senate or the house refuses to certify Dem elections that they won, then the Dems would be in the position of saying f the house and the SC or outright just handing the whole thing to the republicans.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:09 pm

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:03 pm We need to arrest a lot of the GOP and unroll those fuckers using the RICO laws. Because the GOP by this point is just one big crime organization. No one listens to me when I say this but it's the only way we are going to avert a collapse or a civil war.

In 2022 or 2024 when the senate or the house refuses to certify Dem elections that they won, then the Dems would be in the position of saying f the house and the SC or outright just handing the whole thing to the republicans.

Just mass arrests of political opponents for fear of what they might do? Hmmm. That would most certainly mark the end of our fragile, shaky American idea of democracy, and a bullet to the head of our federal republic.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:04 pm

Really the only way to deal with these people is to hit them in the pocketbook. That would mean a massive coordination among corporations to cut off funding, and that's not going to happen as long as the GOP keeps protecting their bottom line.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:06 pm

Yeah, just how long did it take for all the companies that said they wouldn't give money to GOP candidates that supported the insanity of 1/6 to completely go back on their word and start donating money again?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:20 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:06 pm Yeah, just how long did it take for all the companies that said they wouldn't give money to GOP candidates that supported the insanity of 1/6 to completely go back on their word and start donating money again?

They never stopped in reality. They announced moratoriums when they weren't going to be donating anyway just looking at a calendar.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:25 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:06 pm Yeah, just how long did it take for all the companies that said they wouldn't give money to GOP candidates that supported the insanity of 1/6 to completely go back on their word and start donating money again?

Have they? I know a GOP thinktank was encouraging them to and they took the call, which in itself is disheartening. That would be about a month ago, so... that would be 4 months if the call yielded results and everyone forgets Cruz' public declaration that the GOP would refuse to take filthy corporate money to continue to do their backroom deal dirtywork. I dunno if the encouragement worked. I know that in December, manufacturing were all "coal and oil" because the GOP said so. Here we are in June and they're all "renewables, electric, and carbon neutral" as are the actual big energy production players. Is that because the blue ass is in power or is that reaction to "the will of the people" or being a responsible citizen in spite of the party of Trump. Or is it something else entirely. I dunno.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:30 pm

Article is from a month ago but read up and get depressed:

The vast majority of corporations who pledged to stop funding these GOP lawmakers have stayed true to their word — but some companies who made vaguer promises about assessing PAC criteria have restarted donations, while others gave money instead to various Republican committees that, in turn, fund these lawmakers.

Here are the companies that have still been funding these 147 objectors, according to Federal Election Commission data up to March 31.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:44 pm

That article is all over the place and I can't follow it. One moment it's giving a list companies that have still been funding these 147 objectors, but then it talks about companies funding specific people, of which Toyota was the worst, giving to 40 people on the list and I didn't see any mention of donations to the works offenders, the Cruz', Hawley's, Greene's, etc...