LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Once. I ate there once. Then the issues appeared. Their chicken was good. They're also surrounded by about a dozen other fast food places that have comparable food at comparable prices.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Enough »

Exodor wrote:They just built two near me. There are so many food options here why would I spend my money on a franchise that has made it clear they don't value my business or values?

I wonder if they're pushing into other more liberal markets and want to put this behind them.
Iirc they have had siting issues in some cities.

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:29 pm WaPo
In a contentious meeting years in the making, the United States’s third-largest faith community voted to emphasize its opposition to same-sex marriage and gay clergy — a decision which was cheered by conservatives in the global church, especially in Africa, but was deeply disappointing to many Americans who were eager for change.
CNN
United Methodist Church leaders are proposing a split into more than one denomination in a bid to resolve years of debate over LGBT clergy and same-sex weddings, according to the church's official news agency.

The proposal, from a 16-member group of bishops and church leaders, says a separation was "the best means to resolve our differences, allowing each part of the Church to remain true to its theological understanding, while recognizing the dignity, equality, integrity, and respect of every person."
...
New York Conference Bishop Thomas Bickerton, part of the group behind the proposal, told the official United Methodist News Service that heated debate at the conference demonstrated "the line in the sand had turned into a canyon."
...
The church's worldwide conference in May would need to approve the historic restructuring.
...
The proposal includes $25 million for the "traditionalist Methodist denomination." Another $2 million would be set aside for other potential new denominations. And $39 million will be allocated over eight years to "support communities historically marginalized by racism."
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Supreme Court Justices Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas have opened the court’s term by calling for the overturning of its 2015 marriage equality decision.
The question of whether to extend legal marriage rights to same-sex couples should have been solved state by state through legislation, Alito said.

“In Obergefell v. Hodges … the Court read a right to same-sex marriage into the Fourteenth Amendment, even though that right is found nowhere in the text. Several Members of the Court noted that the Court’s decision would threaten the religious liberty of the many Americans who believe that marriage is a sacred institution between one man and one woman. If the States had been allowed to resolve this question through legislation, they could have included accommodations for those who hold these religious beliefs. … The Court, however, bypassed that democratic process. Worse still, though it briefly acknowledged that those with sincerely held religious objections to same-sex marriage are often ‘decent and honorable,’ … the Court went on to suggest that those beliefs espoused a bigoted worldview.”

A state-by-state process would result in a patchwork of laws, with some states allowing same-sex marriages and not others, and some possibly not recognizing marriages performed in other states — and perhaps the federal government not recognizing them either, so many benefits available to opposite-sex couples would be denied to same-sex couples.
https://www.advocate.com/news/2020/10/0 ... e-equality

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Yes, but that's because they're throwing a hissy that Supreme Court will not hear Kim Davis same-sex marriage case
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:42 pm Yes, but that's because they're throwing a hissy that Supreme Court will not hear Kim Davis same-sex marriage case
Davis was defeated for reelection, and sued by two same-sex couples for refusing to issue marriage certificates. Her claim of qualified immunity was rejected by a panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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“Several Members of the Court noted that the Court’s decision would threaten the religious liberty of the many Americans who believe that marriage is a sacred institution between one man and one woman.
How does the fact that two other people can get married "threaten" anyone's personal religious liberty in any way whatsoever?

That argument always baffles me.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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For those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Holman »

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:28 pm
“Several Members of the Court noted that the Court’s decision would threaten the religious liberty of the many Americans who believe that marriage is a sacred institution between one man and one woman.
How does the fact that two other people can get married "threaten" anyone's personal religious liberty in any way whatsoever?

That argument always baffles me.
Well, the Kim Davis case is that, as a homophobic and bigoted public official, she shouldn't have had to process a gay marriage license.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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In related news my wife's sister and fiancée became wife and wife today in a courthouse ceremony. They decided they needed to get it done while they still could.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Isgrimnur »

:gay-rainbow: :gay-rainbowflag:
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Jaymann »

coopasonic wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:43 pm In related news my wife's sister and fiancée became wife and wife today in a courthouse ceremony. They decided they needed to get it done while they still could.
So when the Suprem(acist) Court takes over, will all gay marriages be annulled?
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by malchior »

Jaymann wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:54 pm
coopasonic wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:43 pm In related news my wife's sister and fiancée became wife and wife today in a courthouse ceremony. They decided they needed to get it done while they still could.
So when the Suprem(acist) Court takes over, will all gay marriages be annulled?
Maybe. That is one thing that makes this completely unseemly. They *aren't supposed to take positions like this*. Turning a bigot like Kim Davis into a martyr and throwing a hissy like this undermines the court's legitimacy. But I guess this is just the beginning.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Jaymann wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:54 pmSo when the Suprem(acist) Court takes over, will all gay marriages be annulled?
Highly unlikely. You would need a relevant case to be granted cert, and then you would need 5 justices to agree to reverse it. Roberts is almost certainly opposed, so we would need the other 5 conservative justices to be a unified block. There's not much history to suggest that's the case.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Kurth »

Little Raven wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:36 pm
Jaymann wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:54 pmSo when the Suprem(acist) Court takes over, will all gay marriages be annulled?
Highly unlikely. You would need a relevant case to be granted cert, and then you would need 5 justices to agree to reverse it. Roberts is almost certainly opposed, so we would need the other 5 conservative justices to be a unified block. There's not much history to suggest that's the case.
Also, we do realize that the "Suprem(acist) Court" just voted NOT to take up the Kim Davis appeal, right???
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Jaymann »

Kurth wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:07 pm
Little Raven wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:36 pm
Jaymann wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:54 pmSo when the Suprem(acist) Court takes over, will all gay marriages be annulled?
Highly unlikely. You would need a relevant case to be granted cert, and then you would need 5 justices to agree to reverse it. Roberts is almost certainly opposed, so we would need the other 5 conservative justices to be a unified block. There's not much history to suggest that's the case.
Also, we do realize that the "Suprem(acist) Court" just voted NOT to take up the Kim Davis appeal, right???
I was referring to after the Trump nominee.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Holman »

Assuming a Biden win and a Democratic majority in the senate, what would be necessary to tilt the judiciary back towards reasonable sanity?

How much damage has 2017-2021 done to the courts, and what is necessary to fix it?
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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I would want evidence that the judiciary has actually become insane.

I certainly don't see any signs of that at the level of the Supreme Court. They're doing what they're supposed to do. But of course the Republicans have appointed a LOT of judges at lower levels, and I don't watch those very closely. Maybe they've actually gone off the rails.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Scraper »

Holman wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:21 pm Assuming a Biden win and a Democratic majority in the senate, what would be necessary to tilt the judiciary back towards reasonable sanity?

How much damage has 2017-2021 done to the courts, and what is necessary to fix it?
All it would really take is Biden winning and then Thomas retiring. That puts it back to the same make up that we've had for the last several years. To actually shift it towards democrats you would need Alito or Roberts to retire as well. None of the other conservative justices are anywhere near retirement.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by malchior »

Kurth wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:07 pm
Little Raven wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:36 pm
Jaymann wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:54 pmSo when the Suprem(acist) Court takes over, will all gay marriages be annulled?
Highly unlikely. You would need a relevant case to be granted cert, and then you would need 5 justices to agree to reverse it. Roberts is almost certainly opposed, so we would need the other 5 conservative justices to be a unified block. There's not much history to suggest that's the case.
Also, we do realize that the "Suprem(acist) Court" just voted NOT to take up the Kim Davis appeal, right???
Alito and Thomas both said her case was flawed. Yet they still went out of their way to throw the hissy fit. They are waiting for a better case to come -- if it does "naturally" -- cough cough.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Kurth »

Jaymann wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:08 pm
Kurth wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:07 pm
Little Raven wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:36 pm
Jaymann wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:54 pmSo when the Suprem(acist) Court takes over, will all gay marriages be annulled?
Highly unlikely. You would need a relevant case to be granted cert, and then you would need 5 justices to agree to reverse it. Roberts is almost certainly opposed, so we would need the other 5 conservative justices to be a unified block. There's not much history to suggest that's the case.
Also, we do realize that the "Suprem(acist) Court" just voted NOT to take up the Kim Davis appeal, right???
I was referring to after the Trump nominee.
This vote was unanimous.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by Holman »

Scraper wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:42 pm
Holman wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:21 pm Assuming a Biden win and a Democratic majority in the senate, what would be necessary to tilt the judiciary back towards reasonable sanity?

How much damage has 2017-2021 done to the courts, and what is necessary to fix it?
All it would really take is Biden winning and then Thomas retiring. That puts it back to the same make up that we've had for the last several years. To actually shift it towards democrats you would need Alito or Roberts to retire as well. None of the other conservative justices are anywhere near retirement.
I was thinking more of the courts at all levels. McConnell has done nothing but seat right-wing-friendly judges since 2017.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Texas officials are facing backlash after deciding to allow social workers to turn away clients on the basis of their disability, sexual orientation or gender identity.

At the direction of the governor’s office, the Texas State Board of Social Work Examiners voted unanimously to eliminate disability, sexual orientation and gender identity from the nondiscrimination clause of the code of conduct. The board made the decision during a joint meeting Monday with the Texas Behavioral Health Executive Council, which oversees regulatory agencies for professions related to mental health.
link
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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A federal appeals court struck down Friday local ordinances prohibiting licensed therapists from engaging in “conversion therapy” practices that aim to change a minor’s sexual orientation or gender identity—despite widespread consensus among experts that such therapy is harmful—arguing that banning the controversial practice is a violation of the therapists’ First Amendment rights.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurk ... n-therapy/

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) introduced legislation in the House on Thursday that would bar schools from receiving federal funding if they allow transgender girls and women and non-binary people to compete on sports teams consistent with their gender identities.

The bill — co-sponsored by Republican Rep. Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma — was met with immediate outrage from transgender activists and allies who labeled the legislation “blatantly transphobic.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tulsi-ga ... 75841389b5

Thankfully, this troll is going to be out of office soon enough.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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This just hastens something what we already were seeing. She is throwing in with the Trumpists. Maybe not politically but culturally. We'll be seeing her in a Fox News/OANN-type role shortly.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Forget the sex changes and stick to regime changes, Tulsi.
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Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) signaled late Tuesday he would oppose the Equality Act, legislation to expand the prohibition on anti-LGBTQ discrimination under federal law, throwing a massive wrench into plans of the bill’s supporters to guide it into law.
LGBTQ rights supporters were counting on Romney to contribute Republican support to get the Equality Act across the finish line. With his vote off the table, it’s hard to see how the legislation’s proponents would be able to find the 10 votes in the Republican caucus to end a filibuster.
https://www.washingtonblade.com/2021/02 ... ality-act/
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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And that right there is why I'm always hesitant to praise Romney every time he bucks conventional Republican norms. That tiger's stripes haven't changed.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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He's still a religious red-stater.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Even with Romney they weren't going to get 10 votes. I'm not going to give him a pass but it seems hard to pin the Senate being a broken institution on Romney.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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What would this mean for female sports? Universities and colleges receive federal money. They give out scholarships to female athletes. Now they have to give to top performing transgender's ? Tax payers pay for arenas so this should affect female pro sports as well. I don't watch female sports but they do matter to some. How could we support the Olympics in any way ?

I know it hurt this girls chances.

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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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I for one salute our new transgender overlords. Long may they reign!
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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UsulofDoom wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:42 pm What would this mean for female sports? Universities and colleges receive federal money. They give out scholarships to female athletes. Now they have to give to top performing transgender's ? Tax payers pay for arenas so this should affect female pro sports as well. I don't watch female sports but they do matter to some. How could we support the Olympics in any way ?

I know it hurt this girls chances.
I have a lot of exposure to this - before the world ended. I've seen this issue cause massive turmoil in a sport with female in the parent organization's name. I saw some very awkward and frankly unworkable schemes to try to address or balance trans inclusivity vs. perceived or realized advantages. For example, at one point hormone testing was bandied about and the idea was that someone undergoing transition would be included. This for many reasons has gone out the window.

In the end they threw open the floodgate to trans players and some of those trans athletes came in and dominated the sport. And I can't say that inherently is a bad thing. Especially since I'm mostly a bystander. I don't have an opinion one way or another. I just see that it is a difficult problem to solve. How we weigh inclusivity versus "fair competition" is one for that sport's membership to decide. And zooming out from the sport, society is going to have to figure this out as well. In the end there isn't a good "clean" solution there. Most of the compromises mean exclusion. Is that acceptable? Justice bends towards it being unacceptable to many. And we have a lot of activism as well. It has made this messy at best with a lot of jumping to conclusions about people's 'wokeness'. Heck I can't even talk about this *as an issue* in some circles without being classified as explicitly anti-trans.

Meanwhile, I've heard some players talk about being afraid - especially of injury - and often don't participate if a trans person is involved. Now how much of that is a real concern? I don't know. Probably not a lot but it isn't like anyone should be hot to collect injury statistics related to trans inclusivity. Especially since it has all sorts of ethical and privacy issues.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by hepcat »

I can’t even begin to figure out how to agree that it doesn’t seem fair without coming across as bigoted. Oof, I do not envy those who feel victimized on either side of the issue though. This is one argument that doesn’t really have any clear solution that doesn’t hurt someone.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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We resolved mens vs womens sports teams. We can add trans teams if necessary.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by malchior »

Zarathud wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:47 pm We resolved mens vs womens sports teams. We can add trans teams if necessary.
This was discussed in some circles. It is seen as exclusionary. If they identify as women then they are women. This inherent conflict is what is weaponized by people like Greene. They seize on a legitimate disagreement, drive it to an absolute end, and use it to demonize these people. And that is just another front in an already wide identify politics battlefield. It's a real mess.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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The problem as I see it is by definition insolvable. Since it is based on feelings of "identity" there is nothing further to say. But a major problem of course is the system can be easily gamed for personal gain, such as scholarships or money.

It reminds me of the problem with service animals. True service animals are a wonderful thing of immense value. But unscrupulous people soon realized you could exploit the law by taking your pet dog anywhere and simply stating that it is a service animal. You are not required to show any proof, and in fact a business owner can be fined for asking the wrong questions. Oh, and screw the people who are allergic to dogs, they don't have any lobbyists. Again, insolvable.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

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Will this mean that Fire, police and military will use Female tests on those that want to take the female test? How will this affect recruitment for government employees number for hiring men vs women? I don't know how this will pan out for us. I do see abuse about to happen by many.
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Re: LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

Post by ImLawBoy »

The idea that people will "game the system" seems like a bit of a red herring to me. I'm sure there will be instances of it on the outliers, but it seems hard to imagine, for example, a flood of male students faking being females for four years to get one of the partial scholarships that are the norm for the non-money sports in college.
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