Racism in America (with data)

[Zarathud]

Can we use the phrase deplorable yet? It always fit.

[Skinypupy]

James: Marxist hate group.

Evelyn: Well, he took mine. I was going to say Marxist. So I’ll say communist.

Now do your actual job, NY Times, and ask James and Evelyn here what "Marxist" and "Communist" actually means, and how it applies to the actions of BLM. I'd wager a rather large sum of money that they have absolutely no idea, and are simply parroting what they've heard on Hannity.

God forbid we get that sort of follow-up question though.

[LawBeefaroni]

These people are irredeemable.

How do we reconcile that with the fact that these people are a significant and integral part of the fabric of the country? Is the country irredeemable? Serious question.


I mean these people vote, they manufacture goods, own land, build stuff, run companies, hold wealth, whatever is considered "valuable" in society. Is their racism a defense against losing these privileges? Is it innate human tribal behavior? Simple hatred? Probably a combination?

[Smoove_B]

I'd been thinking about it since I made my comment, and I'm not sure anymore. Prior to the 2020 election, I would have said we just continue to vote them into irrelevancy, however it's clear there are too many that either want to codify racist behaviors or are happy to enable those that will.

I guess the short answer is we stop allowing our system to be hijacked in such a way as to get racists into positions of power via elections.

Oh, and stop with the need to come together or work with anyone standing on a racist platform.

[LordMortis]

How do we reconcile that with the fact that these people are a significant and integral part of the fabric of the country? Is the country irredeemable? Serious question.

This. It's been a heavy weight for a long time.

[Unagi]

These people are irredeemable.

How do we reconcile that with the fact that these people are a significant and integral part of the fabric of the country? Is the country irredeemable? Serious question.


I mean these people vote, they manufacture goods, own land, build stuff, run companies, hold wealth, whatever is considered "valuable" in society. Is their racism a defense against losing these privileges? Is it innate human tribal behavior? Simple hatred? Probably a combination?

I think they are so against ‘cancel culture’ because that is indeed the biggest thing that affects them.

[Little Raven]

I guess the short answer is we stop allowing our system to be hijacked in such a way as to get racists into positions of power via elections.

Oh, and stop with the need to come together or work with anyone standing on a racist platform.

So, I read this as "give up on democracy." I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean, but these people are 47% of the electorate on a bad day. There's simply no way to get anything constructive done in a democracy if you refuse to work with ~50% of the population. When they have that many voters, they're going to win elections. Lots of them. That's not the system being hijacked...that's the system working as designed.

[noxiousdog]

I guess the short answer is we stop allowing our system to be hijacked in such a way as to get racists into positions of power via elections.

Oh, and stop with the need to come together or work with anyone standing on a racist platform.

So, I read this as "give up on democracy." I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean, but these people are 47% of the electorate on a bad day. There's simply no way to get anything constructive done in a democracy if you refuse to work with ~50% of the population. When they have that many voters, they're going to win elections. Lots of them. That's not the system being hijacked...that's the system working as designed.

Our democracy is just fine. Theirs is crazy town.

[Smoove_B]

So, I read this as "give up on democracy." I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean, but these people are 47% of the electorate on a bad day. There's simply no way to get anything constructive done in a democracy if you refuse to work with ~50% of the population. When they have that many voters, they're going to win elections. Lots of them. That's not the system being hijacked...that's the system working as designed.

How much of the actual electorate are they and how much of our problem is the overwhelming majority of people that aren't voting - disproportionately giving the racists that do the ability to hijack to direction of our nation?

Of course, there are going to be irredeemable people in the non-voting bloc, but I think we need to do a better job of getting non-voters engaged - that's the answer. Because there's zero chance I'm going to sit at a table and negotiate with racists (or Nazis).

[malchior]

James: Marxist hate group.

Evelyn: Well, he took mine. I was going to say Marxist. So I’ll say communist.

Now do your actual job, NY Times, and ask James and Evelyn here what "Marxist" and "Communist" actually means, and how it applies to the actions of BLM. I'd wager a rather large sum of money that they have absolutely no idea, and are simply parroting what they've heard on Hannity.

God forbid we get that sort of follow-up question though.

That was the 'issue' that the critics of the NYT had. They observed a GOP focus group and then reported out on it. The reporter wasn't asking questions. It is a straight forward story in concept but it adds little value at this point. That Trump voters are insufferable know-nothings trained by a propaganda machine isn't interesting. It would have been way more interesting to me if they dug into Frank Muntz who was leading that focus group and understand why he is ok with fine tuning the message that'll eventually end our democracy.

[malchior]

So, I read this as "give up on democracy." I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean, but these people are 47% of the electorate on a bad day. There's simply no way to get anything constructive done in a democracy if you refuse to work with ~50% of the population. When they have that many voters, they're going to win elections. Lots of them. That's not the system being hijacked...that's the system working as designed.

How much of the actual electorate are they and how much of our problem is the overwhelming majority of people that aren't voting - disproportionately giving the racists that do the ability to hijack to direction of our nation?

Of course, there are going to be irredeemable people in the non-voting bloc, but I think we need to do a better job of getting non-voters engaged - that's the answer. Because there's zero chance I'm going to sit at a table and negotiate with racists (or Nazis).

Even if 'non-voters' came out we have no real reason to think they wouldn't generally follow the trend. That's just the way large populations generally work statistically. What's more interesting is the targeting in how voters are being discouraged. You target the ones statistically more likely to vote against you and in ways that statistically you know impact them more and you can turn close losses into wins. That is why they are laser focused on it.

In any case, the idea that this is a system working as designed is not strongly supported. From Congress, the Courts, and everywhere in between we see a system that is barely functional. Congress hasn't been able to pass meaningful legislation including budgets consistently for decades. The Presidency has compensated by becoming a quasi-dictator ruling by EO, our fiscal policy is essentially let the rich loot the coffers, and the Courts are now starting to churn out decisions that don't rely on precedent, established doctrine, or even precepts of basic fairness. It is a system breaking down across multiple fronts.

[coopasonic]

If we can't do something about the misinformation provided by the News channels that are basically spreading propaganda, I don't see how we fix it. We've had centuries of practice "othering" people to create a division, an enemy, a threat I'm not sure how we escape the cycle. I mean we do the same thing with red hats, maga, trumpers, repugnicans, deplorables. We label them to dehumanize them. They are all people who could, given willingness and opportunity, learn the value of diversity and the way othering is used to guide our behavior.

On the other hand I keep telling myself that in two decades my father-in-law will be gone but 5 out of 7 of his kids and step-kids have already learned these lessons, so over time we'll get there.

[Skinypupy]

On the other hand I keep telling myself that in two decades my father-in-law will be gone but 5 out of 7 of his kids and step-kids have already learned these lessons, so over time we'll get there.

This is part of the hope I cling to. That the next generation(s) will see the bullshit for what it is and make significant strides towards equality. Watching my 12 year old and her friends, they are keenly aware and it matters to them...certainly far more than it ever did for me at their age.

Whether the systemic barriers will be too much to overcome by the time they gain any influence is the larger question.

[LordMortis]

On the other hand I keep telling myself that in two decades my father-in-law will be gone but 5 out of 7 of his kids and step-kids have already learned these lessons, so over time we'll get there.

This is part of the hope I cling to. That the next generation(s) will see the bullshit for what it is and make significant strides towards equality. Watching my 12 year old and her friends, they are keenly aware and it matters to them...certainly far more than it ever did for me at their age.

Whether the systemic barriers will be too much to overcome by the time they gain any influence is the larger question.

I don't know anymore. I thought I was supposed to be part of a gateway to that future. The beginning of generation landslide that would finish sometime after I died off. It's hard for me see that as the case, seeing this last decade unfold. It'll be good to have my feeling unfounded. It seemed to be getting better, better, better and then bigots not only started fighting back, they revealed themselves to be legion and across generations. I mean things are obviously better than they were in the 60s and even 70s. I don't know that I can say they're better than the 80s or 90s and I also can't say how much of a bubble I was in. I hope the optimism you and YK have are through a clearer lens than mine. My optimism needs to be located (or perhaps that's relocated... so something within view)

[malchior]

On the other hand I keep telling myself that in two decades my father-in-law will be gone but 5 out of 7 of his kids and step-kids have already learned these lessons, so over time we'll get there.

This is part of the hope I cling to. That the next generation(s) will see the bullshit for what it is and make significant strides towards equality. Watching my 12 year old and her friends, they are keenly aware and it matters to them...certainly far more than it ever did for me at their age.

Sure but a 12-year isn't politically relevant for another 25-30 years.

[coopasonic]

Yeah to LM's point, social media opened a lot of eyes for both good and bad. It has been powerful for both.

If we can survive as a democracy for another couple decades there might be light at the end of the tunnel. 2022 and 2024 are going to be scary times.

[Skinypupy]

I hope the optimism you and YK have are through a clearer lens than mine.

I should have clarified that it's a faint hope, at best.

My much greater fear is that by the time their generation wields any actual political power (as malichor pointed out), that the systems put in place by the tyranny of the minority will be so entrenched that it won't matter.

[Zarathud]

The founders had propaganda and divisions. But at the end of the day could pass a compromise and rarely engaged in duels.

The Republican Party has ground the country to a halt because it serves their political ends by frustrating the liberals and progressives. There is no compromise because the Republicans don’t want to.

And if they do compromise, the party activists will brand them a RINO and start a primary challenge. I have no doubt some of the deplorables would welcome a duel to the death — a trial by combat as Rudy said.

[Little Raven]

It Turns Out, All Those 'Woke' White Allies Were Lying

When the country collectively witnessed the brutal May 25, 2020 death of George Floyd, white people were forever changed. Millions took to the streets, arm-in-arm with their fellow brethren, offering their support for justice and equality. Corporations changed their policies. Individuals joined the movement. To prove their commitment, companies pledged billions to the struggle for racial equity. This multiracial outpouring of sympathy and solidarity transformed the country.

And then, white people went home and kept being white.

This harsh realization is not an opinion. It is a factual statement based on the research and analyses of multiple organizations. And before we get to the “not all white people,” part of the conversation, let’s be clear, the reports are based on studies that showed that the vast majority of white people didn’t just not do anything. According to stuff like math and science, the levels of white support are lower than they were before demonstrations swept the country last summer.

A blunt opinion from the always uncompromising Michael Harriot.

[Default]

It Turns Out, All Those 'Woke' White Allies Were Lying

When the country collectively witnessed the brutal May 25, 2020 death of George Floyd, white people were forever changed. Millions took to the streets, arm-in-arm with their fellow brethren, offering their support for justice and equality. Corporations changed their policies. Individuals joined the movement. To prove their commitment, companies pledged billions to the struggle for racial equity. This multiracial outpouring of sympathy and solidarity transformed the country.

And then, white people went home and kept being white.

This harsh realization is not an opinion. It is a factual statement based on the research and analyses of multiple organizations. And before we get to the “not all white people,” part of the conversation, let’s be clear, the reports are based on studies that showed that the vast majority of white people didn’t just not do anything. According to stuff like math and science, the levels of white support are lower than they were before demonstrations swept the country last summer.

A blunt opinion from the always uncompromising Michael Harriot.

Must be great to have a platform to declare defeat. I just got to pound away on a cellular level, one cracker at a time.

[malchior]

It Turns Out, All Those 'Woke' White Allies Were Lying

When the country collectively witnessed the brutal May 25, 2020 death of George Floyd, white people were forever changed. Millions took to the streets, arm-in-arm with their fellow brethren, offering their support for justice and equality. Corporations changed their policies. Individuals joined the movement. To prove their commitment, companies pledged billions to the struggle for racial equity. This multiracial outpouring of sympathy and solidarity transformed the country.

And then, white people went home and kept being white.

This harsh realization is not an opinion. It is a factual statement based on the research and analyses of multiple organizations. And before we get to the “not all white people,” part of the conversation, let’s be clear, the reports are based on studies that showed that the vast majority of white people didn’t just not do anything. According to stuff like math and science, the levels of white support are lower than they were before demonstrations swept the country last summer.

A blunt opinion from the always uncompromising Michael Harriot.

I mean are we shocked? Look at how police reform all but vanished (as predicted naturally). Yet they are still out there ostensibly violating minority civil rights every day still. The pandemic killed them and all our economic policy during the pandemic served to harm them. We are down to our deepest roots a racist country.

[LordMortis]

And before we get to the “not all white people,” part of the conversation,

...

Since the number is getting smaller every day, we must also acknowledge that these indisputable facts don’t apply to all white people...

Yet.

Well played.

[LawBeefaroni]

It Turns Out, All Those 'Woke' White Allies Were Lying

When the country collectively witnessed the brutal May 25, 2020 death of George Floyd, white people were forever changed. Millions took to the streets, arm-in-arm with their fellow brethren, offering their support for justice and equality. Corporations changed their policies. Individuals joined the movement. To prove their commitment, companies pledged billions to the struggle for racial equity. This multiracial outpouring of sympathy and solidarity transformed the country.

And then, white people went home and kept being white.

This harsh realization is not an opinion. It is a factual statement based on the research and analyses of multiple organizations. And before we get to the “not all white people,” part of the conversation, let’s be clear, the reports are based on studies that showed that the vast majority of white people didn’t just not do anything. According to stuff like math and science, the levels of white support are lower than they were before demonstrations swept the country last summer.

A blunt opinion from the always uncompromising Michael Harriot.

I mean are we shocked? Look at how police reform all but vanished (as predicted naturally). Yet they are still out there ostensibly violating minority civil rights every day still. The pandemic killed them and all our economic policy during the pandemic served to harm them. We are down to our deepest roots a racist country.

Not shocking and fairly inevitable once "defund" was declared the endgame. Police protect wealth and privilege. It's one thing to say, "I'll bring my resources to bear to get your back." It's another to say, "I'll stand as naked and defenseless as you in the face of your oppressor."

In case I haven't said it enough, the "defund" message was so awful, I'm not convinced it wasn't a tool used to throw cold water on the movement before it got too big.

[malchior]

Not shocking and fairly inevitable once "defund" was declared the endgame. Police protect wealth and privilege. It's one thing to say, "I'll bring my resources to bear to get your back." It's another to say, "I'll stand as naked and defenseless as you in the face of your oppressor."

In case I haven't said it enough, the "defund" message was so awful, I'm not convinced it wasn't a tool used to throw cold water on the movement before it got too big.

I'm not so sure. They seem to legitimately still argue it's a great message while they spin mud on everything trying to explain it still. They are just this clueless. Useful idiots. The likely truth was that police reform was *never going to happen*. We've seen three major police reform movements fail in the United States in the last century. As you said it is to protect wealth and privilege.

Edit: It would be fair to say that incremental reform did occur but it was mostly lawsuit driven. And even then those incremental reforms were mostly just bites around the edges.

[LordMortis]

It seems corporate solidarity for George Floyd is a thing today. The article refers to is as “woke washing”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/compa ... 1621960301

[Smoove_B]

Does this go here?I think this goes here:

If you were planning on doing business with state offices in Alabama on Monday, you’ll have to wait.

Monday, June 7 is a state holiday in Alabama. The day is set aside to mark the birthday of Jefferson Davis, who served as president of the Confederate states from 1861-1865.

...

The Davis holiday is one of three in Alabama that honors Confederate leaders: Robert E. Lee’s birthday, which is marked in January on the same day as Martin Luther King Day; Confederate Memorial Day in April; and Davis’ birthday in June.

Not a popular opinion, but Lincoln should have made sure traitors were dealt with.

[LawBeefaroni]

I've probably told this story on here before, but a college friend of mine is from Lancaster Ohio. William Tecumseh Sherman was born there. It being a small town, it's pretty much their main claim to fame. So my friend's dad is very proud of this fact. Once they were checking into a B&B in Georgia or Alabama (can't remember) and on signing the register at check-in some employee noted that they were from up North and engaged in small talk. The dad said, with his usual gusto,. probably not remembering where he was, "Yep, Lancaster, Ohio, birthplace of General Sherman!"

They were immediately told to leave and never come back.

[Smoove_B]

Yikes.

Speaking of yikes:

White settlers who came to Texas in the 1830s received 80 acres of land for every enslaved person they brought with them. I'm assuming this will be covered in the 1836 Project, yes?

Greg Abbott
To keep Texas the best state in the nation, we can never forget WHY our state is so exceptional.

I signed a law establishing the 1836 project, which promotes patriotic education & ensures future generations understand TX values.

Together, we'll keep our rich history alive.

Here's the ultra awful part:

Some language in the bill. Curious to see how the legacy of the booming antebellum economy based on slave labor will be covered in that pamphlet of theirs celebrating the founding of the state.

[Holman]

In 1836, white Texans revolted against Mexican rule in large part because Mexico abolished slavery.

[LawBeefaroni]

The Detroit 1967 Project: Celebrating the year of the muscle car, rampant job growth, and the deployment of the 82nd Airborne!

[Isgrimnur]

Nevada

Auchoberry is a member of the Washoe Tribe. She was born in 1914, and she remembers what it was like to grow up in the 20th century in Minden, Nevada, a small, rural community just 20 minutes from Lake Tahoe.

Minden was a sundown town. In an interview with the University of Nevada Oral History Program, recorded in 1984, Auchoberry remembers the daily examples of discrimination and racism that she experienced. Auchoberry lived in Dresslerville, a Washoe community that borders Minden.
...
The sundown ordinance was repealed in 1974 — less than 50 years ago. But the Minden siren endures. It continues to go off every single day at noon and 6 p.m.
...
Still, Minden residents staunchly defend the siren as a nostalgic part of their heritage and culture. They insist the siren is a timekeeper, alerting the town’s 3,000 residents of the hours for lunch and dinner. “That’s how we know to start our meetings on time,” a town board member told the local newspaper, the Record Courier, in 2006.

That year, in 2006, the siren was briefly turned off as a small gesture of goodwill to improve county relations with the Washoe Tribe, according to a letter written by the Douglas County manager at the time, Daniel C. Holler. But the brief pause of the siren sparked outrage and blowback from the town of Minden, whose population is 94% white.

Two months later, the siren was turned back on.

Minden officials often say the siren has no record on paper of being affiliated with the sundown ordinance. Instead, in 2006, when the county turned the siren back on, they also passed a resolution saying that the siren honors local volunteers. That 2006 resolution is what Minden officials point to now to back their claims that the siren is not affiliated with the town’s racist history.
...
Minden Town Manager J.D. Frisby insists the siren came after the sundown ordinance and so it was not tied to the racist law.

“Where does it stop, you know?” Frisby told the Gazette Journal. “I could tell you the Lutheran bells that chime all day long are offensive to me, but being offended is a choice. At what point do we just roll over and give up to everything someone is offended by?”

NPR

Nevada Gov. Steve Sisolak met with members of the Nevada Indian Commission in Carson City on Friday as he signed legislation removing racially discriminatory identifiers or language from schools. Additionally, counties can no longer sound "sundown sirens," which once signified it was time for certain people to leave town.
...
Friday's signing took place at the Stewart Indian School, which served as a federally run Native American educational institute for 90 years.
...
However, as of Friday, Nevada now prohibits counties, cities and unincorporated towns from sounding a siren, bell or alarm "at a time during which the siren, bell or alarm was previously sounded on specific days or times in association with an ordinance enacted by the city which required persons of a particular race, ethnicity, ancestry, national origin or color to leave the city by a specific time," the law reads.

I look forward to hearing that Minden has changed their siren time to 5:55 PM

[Default]

And, I got a "n" joke completely out of the blue today.
Ain't the 21st century grand?

[malchior]

Fun times. On racial unity, I think I have now seen more articles on Critical Race Theory in the last few days than I did all ever. The GOP is obsessed with it. I think it is now the new 'Satanic Panic' but more racist. The AP was reporting that some parents out in Utah or Idaho want teachers to wear bodycams to make sure they don't poison their minds with CRT.

[Holman]

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm going to make sure I have articles about the CRT debate on my curriculum this Fall.

If someone tries to accuse me of bias, I'll just claim I'm TEACHING THE CONTROVERSY.

[hepcat]

Fun times. On racial unity, I think I have now seen more articles on Critical Race Theory in the last few days than I did all ever. The GOP is obsessed with it. I think it is now the new 'Satanic Panic' but more racist.

This. Dear God, this. It has become a rallying cry for the right. Fox News is running its outrage porn on a loop. To admit we institutionalized racism, even when the facts bear that out, is the same as declaring yourself a member of ISIS to the right.

[malchior]

The insidious thing is they are the ones who elevated it from relative academic obscurity to use it as another wedge. It's completely manufactured outrage but everyone including the biggest media players fell for it again. When you stand back you almost have to tip your hat at these people because they just play society like a fiddle. Too bad the tune they are playing sound vaguely like 'Dixie'.

[malchior]

FWIW stumbled on some explicit proof of my assertion above. It could just be "unearned" bragging but this does have the same manufactured feel as other 'astroturf' moral panics of the last few years.

[YellowKing]

I have seen several anti-CRT billboards up around here. I swear to God it's so predictable - create issue, blame it on the left, get everyone riled up, rinse, repeat. Transgender athletes, we hardly knew ye.

[hepcat]

I wonder if Fox News will ever return to reporting on anything besides CRT in my lifetime?

[Alefroth]

Well at least the lawmakers know what they are banning-

https://www.al.com/news/2021/06/whitmir ... it-is.html