Election integrity and the transfer of power

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:15 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:40 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:26 pm It's not just one man. It's the GOP mainstream that only cares about money and power. It's also the sad, pathetic incompetent Democrats who are essentially their cowed handmaids cleaning up the mess in time for the GOP to swing back through and fuck some more shit up.
This, this 1,000x this.

Except for the first time, I am actually starting to consider the possibility that the old school/mainstream D's are not fighting tooth and nail for a reason. I'm not sure it's JUST cowardice and incompetence. I think it's very possible they realized (probably a while back), that they Lost with a capital "L". Won the battle, lost the war, and all that.

It's like some deep R strategist started playing the long game decades ago maybe, and it was such a slow burn, that no one REALLY noticed until recently. By now, it's too late. All the work that has been done under the radar for years has finally come to fruition for them. The gerrymandering, the courts, the state governments, etc.....it's all kind of culminating....now. What do the dems have? The Executive. Nothing to sneeze at, sure, but it PALES in comparison to the underlying might of the Empi....Republican power stranglehold.

It might explain why so many of these older school R's seem to have absolutely NO problem telegraphing these shocking, UNPRECEDENTED thoughts, whereas before they were playing a lot more closely to the vest. Openly flauting the norms and rules was probably not smart until they were sure they had things in the bag. Because they KNOW they've won, too.

This is what I've been saying a while now. Welcome to the team.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:31 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:40 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:26 pm It's not just one man. It's the GOP mainstream that only cares about money and power. It's also the sad, pathetic incompetent Democrats who are essentially their cowed handmaids cleaning up the mess in time for the GOP to swing back through and fuck some more shit up.
This, this 1,000x this.

Except for the first time, I am actually starting to consider the possibility that the old school/mainstream D's are not fighting tooth and nail for a reason. I'm not sure it's JUST cowardice and incompetence.

Fair. It might be accurate to assign some blame to statins, advanced healthcare, and generational narcissism.

It's like some deep R strategist started playing the long game decades ago maybe, and it was such a slow burn, that no one REALLY noticed until recently.

Except for the scholars who said take Gingrich, Rove, et. al. seriously. It wasn't like they were shy about their ambitions. Though they said they'd built a permanent majority. That didn't work out so a permanent minority is fine as well as long as it rules.

I mean check this passage from a piece in the LA TImes from 2003 - they always had a plan. It wasn't all successful but they kept building to what they've done today.

LA Times wrote:Emboldened by a popular president, key fund-raising advantages and an opposition party plagued by divisions, Republicans are heading into the 2004 campaign eyeing a goal that extends far beyond the election: They want to establish political dominion for years to come.
With the GOP now controlling the White House and Congress, next year’s vote looms as a test of whether this Republican reign is an interlude or the start of an enduring period of political supremacy on par with Democrats’ hegemony for much of the 20th century.

“The president has said he does not want a lonely victory,” said Christine Iverson, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee. “We really have an opportunity here to make this a permanent majority.”

Toward that end, Republicans have pressed their cause with bold -- some say hardball -- tactics. They launched an effort to redraw state political maps to favor GOP candidates. They are laying claim to issues -- such as improving education and health benefits -- traditionally associated with Democrats. They are trying to turn Washington’s lobbying establishment into an army of GOP loyalists. And they are building up campaign treasuries that dwarf the Democrats’.

By now, it's too late. All the work that has been done under the radar for years has finally come to fruition for them. The gerrymandering, the courts, the state governments, etc.....it's all kind of culminating....now. What do the dems have? The Executive. Nothing to sneeze at, sure, but it PALES in comparison to the underlying might of the Empi....Republican power stranglehold.

It was ALL OUT IN THE OPEN! That's the crazy part. The GOP always seized their advantages when they could but the worst part is the same people running the game for the Democrats now are essentially the same people who failed to stop this when it was happening right in front of their incompetent eyes.

It might explain why so many of these older school R's seem to have absolutely NO problem telegraphing these shocking, UNPRECEDENTED thoughts, whereas before they were playing a lot more closely to the vest. Openly flauting the norms and rules was probably not smart until they were sure they had things in the bag. Because they KNOW they've won, too.

Yup. Also they have their parts to play. They are all jockeying for position in this new hierarchy. That is why making an example of Liz Cheney was so important to them. They needed to signal a clean break from the old. It isn't a dramatic soviet style purge but a purge it was.

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:57 pm

I seriously hope that American citizens aren't blind and complacent forever. I think I'm hoping in vain though. The US govt seems to have a lock on engendering complacency and diving and conquering the masses.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:12 pm

Drazzil wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:57 pm I seriously hope that American citizens aren't blind and complacent forever. I think I'm hoping in vain though. The US govt seems to have a lock on engendering complacency and diving and conquering the masses.

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:00 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:12 pm
Drazzil wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:57 pm I seriously hope that American citizens aren't blind and complacent forever. I think I'm hoping in vain though. The US govt seems to have a lock on engendering complacency and diving and conquering the masses.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:35 pm

Oh hey, look:

Tuesday evening's procedural vote to bring up the legislation, called the For the People Act, needed 60 votes to open floor debate but received 50. In the evenly divided chamber, all Senate Democrats backed it, but all Senate Republicans voted no.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:03 pm

This is all fueled by the money McConnell kept in politics by killing campaign finance reform. The GOP needed a juggernaut of dark money to fund the takeover.

But the Republican key is to make Democrats look extreme to fund and perpetuate the hate/stiggin it vote. Biden and Manchineel try to starve the fire — but the Democrats too easily fall for the outrage. And that solidifies a Republican vote, splits the Democrats, and encourages the Drazzils to not vote unless the world is burning because “both sides” are bad. It’s a negative feedback loop or perpetual vote machine.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:10 pm

I just heard a report that Biden didn't like S1...didn't want to expend capital on it and will use it as an issue to raise during the election next year to win more seats. I mean does it take a genius to see the massive flaw in this 'plan'?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:32 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:10 pm I just heard a report that Biden didn't like S1...didn't want to expend capital on it and will use it as an issue to raise during the election next year to win more seats. I mean does it take a genius to see the massive flaw in this 'plan'?

What report?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:36 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:32 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:10 pm I just heard a report that Biden didn't like S1...didn't want to expend capital on it and will use it as an issue to raise during the election next year to win more seats. I mean does it take a genius to see the massive flaw in this 'plan'?
What report?

Live on Andrea Mitchell's program today. Later on MTP I heard a similar story. They will be pushing HR4 but that isn't going to do much. It really feels like they just don't have an answer even around the edges about what is happening at the state level.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:39 pm

I can believe it. Clearly the problem right now is that the (D) don't have enough seats in Congress. I'm sure getting more seats will totally fix everything.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:55 pm

Right. And even then banking on getting more seats when someone is tilting the table *against you* and historical patterns are working *against you* is even more sensible.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:47 pm

Come on, people. Good intentions always win out.

It's like when the evil real estate developer wanted to raze the beloved local boardwalk and the only hope was the new kid from Nebraska that had never surfed before winning the surfing tournament. Guess what? He won and the evil developer had to leave. Because the kid had good intentions.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:16 pm

So you are saying a montage will save American democracy?

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:32 pm

Life needs to be more like Breakin 2 Electric Boogaloo.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:14 pm

Slightly encouraging to see a glimmer of sanity, I suppose. Tells you how low the bar is when simply acknowledging objective reality is considered a "severe blow" to the GOP.

Michigan Republicans did a point-by-point debunking of the false Trumpworld claims you might recall: thousands of dead people voting in Detroit! Dominion stealing votes in Antrim County! All nonsense, as was (or should have been) clear all along.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:55 pm

Glad to hear it. I hope it reaches the people it needs to reach here.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:58 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:55 pm Glad to hear it. I hope it reaches the people it needs to reach here.

I'm sure no one in Michigan will decide that the RINOs need to be kidnapped and purged.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:01 pm

Given how many people were ready to grab their guns when the vote for Biden was certified and the threats against the governor, your statement isn't hyperbowl.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:03 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:01 pm Given how many people were ready to grab their guns when the vote for Biden was certified and the threats against the governor, your statement isn't hyperbowl.

I'm pretty sure that I only have normal bowls in my house. Where can I purchase hyperbowls?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:29 am

You’re going to need an asymp-tote to carry them in.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:39 am

It's that place where Tom Brady plays.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:06 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:03 am
LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:01 pm Given how many people were ready to grab their guns when the vote for Biden was certified and the threats against the governor, your statement isn't hyperbowl.
I'm pretty sure that I only have normal bowls in my house. Where can I purchase hyperbowls?

How much can you pay? I know a dude.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:16 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:06 am
El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:03 am
LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:01 pm Given how many people were ready to grab their guns when the vote for Biden was certified and the threats against the governor, your statement isn't hyperbowl.
I'm pretty sure that I only have normal bowls in my house. Where can I purchase hyperbowls?
How much can you pay? I know a dude.

I wonder how many ounces are needed to fill a hyperbowl?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:50 pm

The conversion rate would require first changing that to hyper ounces.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:17 pm

I just put in a good amount of time listening to a podcast by Ezra Klein joined by Ari Berman ( transcript here @ NY Times). It is a must listen if you really want the end-to-end explanation of the dire state of our democracy. They walk through almost every aspect of the GOP attack on democracy from voter rights laws, systemic factors that are biased for Republicans now (House, Senate, and EC), the specific impact of gerrymandering on the House race next year, and more. It is both high level but dives into the details to explain paths and tactics the GOP is developing to dismantle democracy. A great listen and a harrowing reminder that our democracy is dying in slow motion in plain daylight.

They also made a good point that Jim Crow didn't happen overnight - it was built over years. In any case, it is a very detailed, complete accounting of the issues we face and frankly...it looks bad. They explain how HR1 and HR4 are the bare minimum to begin addressing the problems we face and that won't happen due to the filibuster. They even walk through the scale of change needed and it just seems impossible in this broken system. That is why it looks to be probably 'unstoppable bad' in my opinion.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:57 am

Dozens of big companies, citing their commitment to democracy, pledged to avoid donating money to the 147 lawmakers who objected to Congress’ certification of Joe Biden’s victory on the false grounds that voting fraud stole the election from then-President Donald Trump.

It was a striking gesture by some of the most familiar names in business but, as it turns out, it was largely an empty one.

Six months later, many of those companies have resumed funneling cash to political action committees that benefit the election efforts of lawmakers whether they objected to the election certification or not. When it comes to seeking political influence through corporate giving, business as usual is back, if it ever left.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-se ... b32c63368c

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:27 pm

Not really a surprise. I actually expected it to happen about 3 days after the pledges started rolling in.

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:13 pm

We need an uprising. The longer we leave it the worse things will get.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:17 pm

The Kraken lawyers (including Wood and Powell) are in Zoom court today trying to explain to a judge why they shouldn't get sanctioned out of existence.

It's...not going well for them. (Mike Dunford doing a stellar job of updates)

This is a bloodbath. This is far more than I was expecting from this hearing.

Judge is pissed. SERIOUSLY PISSED.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:08 pm

I've got this up on the tv and matching it up with Dunford's thread. It's crazy to watch these guys getting berated by the judge about their conduct. That they think that lecturing the judge about how she is conducting her inquiry in a 'subjective' versus 'objective' manner is quite a move. Holy shit. These guys are not doing themselves and their clients any favors. I honestly couldn't believe the conduct of several of them talking down at and openly disrespecting the judge. I also can't help but think a bunch of white, conservative lawyers acting this way towards a black, female judge is ... unsurprising.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:11 pm

This GIF is marvelous.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:18 pm

Klown: We reviewed every affadavit, and *I THINK WE TALKED TO THEM* about the issues.

Judge: <Stares into the abyss>

Edit: The more I watch, the more I'm convinced that they are both shitty lawyers and might actually buy into this conspiracy theory garbage. They are a complete mess. The counter narrative is that they keep asking for an evidentiary hearing to defend these affidavits which I feel like is an attempt to legitimize this nonsense.

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:38 pm

Hold on… is one of the Kraken lawyers actually named “Klown????”

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:39 pm

I feel like Kraken here should probably sue the Kraken lawyers for the damage that they're causing to his reputation.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:40 pm

geezer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:38 pm Hold on… is one of the Kraken lawyers actually named “Klown????”

No it's actually Kleinhendler but he is a huge Klown. Every time he opens his mouth he digs the hole deeper.

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:41 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:40 pm
geezer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:38 pm Hold on… is one of the Kraken lawyers actually named “Klown????”

No it's actually Kleinhendler but he is a huge Klown. Every time he opens his mouth he digs the hole deeper.

Ah. Too bad.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:43 pm

geezer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:41 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:40 pm
geezer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:38 pm Hold on… is one of the Kraken lawyers actually named “Klown????”

No it's actually Kleinhendler but he is a huge Klown. Every time he opens his mouth he digs the hole deeper.
Ah. Too bad.

Yeah - apparently he picked up this accurate nickname previously. I'm just standing on the shoulders of lawsplainer snark.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:55 pm

I sense that All The Presidents' Lawyers will be especially entertaining this week.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:36 pm

It's over. Well that was insane. The wheels of justice grind slow but I think these folks are going to get ground into dust. In unsurprising news, Lin Wood and Powell appear to be the loathsome bottomfeeders they appear to be in other venues. Wood was intemperate and I think came inches from being held in contempt. He also argued he was barely involved and only put his name on it. Powell made some grandstand-ing Trump friendly speech about how proceedings like this undermine belief in the system. (Seriously). The judge let it go because in the end they're fucked and she is going to let the system loose on them. It is only a matter of time.