The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

El Guapo wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:43 pm Do we know anything about how it got published?
About the doctor that submitted it:
Walach has advocated for revision of the concept of evidence-based medicine, promoting holistic and homeopathic alternatives in his publications.
So yeah, it's probably a situation where he's taking advantage of the sentiment and using the quick momentum to gather new supporters. How it got through JAMA Pediatrics, I don't know. Also from his Wiki page regarding the study:
This study was funded by a charity (MWGFD) that was founded to fight governmental pandemic protocols, and is known for promoting COVID conspiracy theories and distributing anti-vaccine flyers.
Grifters gonna grift.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LordMortis »

If that "charity" the Robert F. Kennedy Jr group? I heard some interviews with scientists they were trying to dup (and some of which they did) for their "documentary" and it was pretty mindblowing, the levels at which they'll sink to. Barring, misrepresenting who they are, spending hours getting details so they can pull a 10 second clip and then citing these professionals as prominent sourcing to support their findings, nuts.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Were you aware Walach had two studies retracted this month? He also somehow got a peer reviewed piece through
in Vaccines. This talks about the retraction. Obviously we now should be looking at the editorial process in two journals to figure out what the fuck is happening here.
The peer reviewed article, “The Safety of Covid-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy,” misinterpreted data to conclude that “for three deaths prevented by vaccination we have to accept two inflicted by vaccination.”1

Katie Ewer, an immunologist at the Jenner Institute at Oxford University, who resigned from Vaccines’ editorial board after publication of the article, wrote on Twitter, “It is grossly negligent and I can’t believe it passed peer review.”

None of the article’s three authors has a background in vaccinology, virology, or epidemiology. They are Harald Walach, a clinical psychologist and health researcher at Poznan University of Medical Sciences in Poland, who studies homeopathy and complementary medicine; Rainer Klement, a medical physicist who studies ketogenic diets in cancer treatment at the Leopoldina Hospital in Schweinfurt, Germany; and Wouter Aukema, an independent data scientist in Hoenderloo, Netherlands.

The three are also coauthors of a paper just published in JAMA Pediatrics questioning the safety of masks in children.2
Edit: I also just saw that when this article was published he was canned by Poznan summarily on June 30th due to the furor it got in pre-print.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Nice to see *some* push back coming from the Biden Administration:
President Joe Biden on Friday said social media platforms such as Facebook (FB.O) "are killing people" after the White House continued criticizing the company for allowing misinformation about coronavirus vaccines to be posted on its platform.

"They’re killing people. Look, the only pandemic we have is among the unvaccinated. And they’re killing people," Biden told reporters when asked about misinformation and what his message was to social media platforms such as Facebook.

White House press secretary Jen Psaki earlier on Friday also criticized the company.

"Obviously there are steps they have taken. They're a private sector company. There are additional steps they can take. It's clear that there are more that can be taken," she said at a White House briefing.
I expect the usual suspects to spin this into an anti-Biden mountain over the weekend.

EDIT: Just seeing that the White House is also reporting that Florida is contributing 1 in 5 of the new COVID cases at this point. I mean, really.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

pr0ner wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:50 pm Los Angeles County is reimposing an indoor mask mandate at 11:59 PM on Saturday.
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 43501
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Blackhawk »

This is why we can't have nice things.

Like heartbeats.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Zaxxon »

I wonder where this sheriff received his public health degree.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Isgrimnur »

Humanity was a mistake.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Zaxxon »

Isgrimnur wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:11 am Humanity was a mistake.
Also, we're fucked.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Isgrimnur »

Zaxxon wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:26 am
Isgrimnur wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:11 am Humanity was a mistake.
Also, we're fucked.
We're here for a good time, not a long time.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 20335
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Utah

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Skinypupy »

Whelp…

When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

A snapshot of what's happening in nursing homes:
COVID-19 vaccination rates among U.S. nursing home workers continue to lag nationwide, with only 1 in 5 facilities hitting an industry target of getting 75 percent of their health care staff fully vaccinated, a new AARP analysis of government data shows. A handful of states have especially low vaccination rates among both staff and residents.

Nationally, 56 percent of nursing home workers are fully vaccinated. But in Louisiana, just 41 percent of workers are, representing the lowest staff vaccination rate of any state or territory, the analysis finds. In Florida, home to over 700 nursing homes, only 42 percent of workers are fully vaccinated.
What does this mean?
AARP's analysis, released Thursday, also shows that COVID-19 cases and deaths in nursing homes are continuing to decline to all-time lows. Yet the newly released vaccination rates — which the federal government only required nursing homes to publicly report starting in June — are a new cause for alarm, says AARP's Susan Reinhard, senior vice president and director of the AARP Public Policy Institute.

"They show we've not passed the threat of COVID to nursing home residents,” she says. “In some states, the situation is really, really serious — there are just not enough people vaccinated, particularly as this delta variant takes off.”
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
Daehawk
Posts: 63530
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:11 am

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Daehawk »

I couldn't wear my mask today in stores. I tried. The first one I got a severe tickle in my throat from it. I coughed and coughed and it would not go away. If I forced myself not to cough then my eyes started pouring tears it was so bad. Removed the mask and it was fine.

Tried it again in the 2nd store same problem but not as bad. Also my face just gets wet in that mask now. I was sweating pigs anyways and it didn't help. Just couldn't wear one today. Hate it because I dont want to get sick but if I cant take it I cant.

I think Im just going to have to get another cloth mask that doesn't work great instead of these KN95 ones.
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by El Guapo »

Black Lives Matter.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Bolded huh?!? What a name for the group. A quick Google search leads me to believe a Koch type plutocrat must be behind this.
CNN wrote:"A ruling from the federal court has affirmed Indiana University's COVID-19 vaccination plan designed for the health and well-being of our students, faculty and staff," IU said. "We appreciate the quick and thorough ruling which allows us to focus on a full and safe return. We look forward to welcoming everyone to our campuses for the fall semester."

James Bopp Jr., the lead attorney for the plaintiffs and the director of litigation for America's Frontline Doctors, said they planned to appeal.

"Today's ruling does not end the students' fight—we plan to immediately appeal the judge's decision," Bopp said in a statement. "In addition, we plan on asking the judge to put a hold on IU's Mandate pending that appeal. We are confident the court of appeals will agree that the Mandate should be put on hold."
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Zaxxon »

Matches the typical rule of the name suggesting something at direct odds with the group's actual purpose.
User avatar
Ralph-Wiggum
Posts: 17449
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:51 am

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Skinypupy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:50 am Whelp…

I'm actually a bit surprised the R^2 isn't higher. That figure begs the question: what is going on in the outlier counties?
Black Lives Matter
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

A quick read also shows the founder of America's Frontline Doctors is Simone Gold who is an emergency room physician who was charged in the Capitol riot. She is tied to hydroxychloroquine advocacy and anti-vaccines. A real prize to medicine in other words.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:48 pmI'm actually a bit surprised the R^2 isn't higher. That figure begs the question: what is going on in the outlier counties?
That number actually sounds right to me - human behavior driven R^2 analyses rarely exceed "50%". What'd be *really interesting* is adding in more independent variables and seeing which ones influence the 'label' (vaccine or no vaccine) most. If only I had the time. :)
Last edited by malchior on Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:48 pm

I'm actually a bit surprised the R^2 isn't higher. That figure begs the question: what is going on in the outlier counties?
Probably red counties in blue states and vice versa.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 43501
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Blackhawk »

And the school COVID plan has been published. Masks are optional (which means no masks), 3' "social distancing" will be in place, and if you're exposed you have to quarantine for ten days.

I wish I could say I was surprised. My only consolation is that in another ten months I'll never have to think about that school again.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 21045
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Defiant »

malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

I don't recommend reading the comments on that Youtube video if you don't want to have to make a roll for sanity.

Edit: Also, I can't help but this is just the GOP winning on politics. Rand and the GOP are all curb stomping on Fauci all over social media right now to massive cheering. It's hopeless to reason with these people. I can't help but think we are marching into real darkness here.
User avatar
Daehawk
Posts: 63530
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:11 am

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Daehawk »

As a country we should be ashamed of the stupidity of the folks leading our country. Unfortunately a lot of our fellow citizens put those idiots there and continue to love them today. Sickening how stupid and evil our country leaders are and the rot that half of our citizens are.
Last edited by Daehawk on Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

malchior wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:12 pm I can't help but think we are marching into real darkness here.
I made the mistake of reading the comments to an NBC News tweet yesterday regarding the AAP recommendation that all children are masked for the 2021 school start. If only half of them were legitimate people, we're all in for a bad ride.

I am reminded of a quote I saw recently and it's really made me think about the people in my community.
Be careful who you let on your ship, because some people will sink the whole ship just because they can't be the captain.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I mean, really.


A Michigan school says requiring students to wear masks in classrooms would violate “sincerely held religious beliefs” because they say humans were made in the image of God, and masks shield that image from being seen.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Isgrimnur »

Ah, religion. Letting people do whatever they want by making shit up since forever.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by El Guapo »

So what I'm hearing is that requiring students to wear clothes is unconstitutional.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Zaxxon »

isn't being unseen the core aspect of God?
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23583
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Pyperkub »

McSweeney's Strikes Again!
used to be pro-science myself. I only became an anti-science activist after realizing how much of my dream-interpretation-based worldview was incompatible with what I was reading in scientific journals. Since then, I have become a fierce activist. I make passionate arguments against the so-called “scientific method” (it’s just making guesses) and the value of peer-reviewed studies (excuse me for wanting to think for myself!). When my children ask me why the sky is blue, I tell them the truth. That there’s no way to find out.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23583
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Pyperkub »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:49 pm I mean, really.


A Michigan school says requiring students to wear masks in classrooms would violate “sincerely held religious beliefs” because they say humans were made in the image of God, and masks shield that image from being seen.
So, I'm assuming that because football helmets have masks, they have no football program? And that the religion also prevents them from working in Hospitals or being Doctors? Firefighters? Welders?...
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Montag
Posts: 2810
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Montag »

Defiant wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:37 am
You need to watch the whole thing and not skip to 3 minutes. Senator Paul may be a douche (sorry to insult feminine hygiene products), but he does have a point. Fauci is doing a dance here. Paul has been riding Fauci for months and it's getting old, but a broken clock is right a couple of times.
words
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Fauci isn't doing any dance. Rand starts out by implying that Fauci was lying to Congress. (Aka grandstanding) Then he picks out an argument from one paper that defines the activity at Wuhan as Gain of Function (one opinion). It is disputed by other experts such as Alina Chan (see below). Fauci then talks through how the paper at issue was analyzed by NIH and said they don't agree with the definition. That isn't dancing. That's explaining. Moreso Fauci zoned right in on what Rand was actually doing and has done repeatedly which is is mis-frame this argument using cherrypicked data - in this case a cherrypicked opinion from someone who is not acting in any official capacity under oversight. It's bullshit but it works because people don't bother to actually pay attention.

Edit: Note the date on the below. This isn't new information. Paul knows what he is doing here.

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Why the F is Rand Paul *still* hammering nonsense about lab funding? If only he were this concerned about what happened on 1/6.

In soul-crushing news, America is sitting on vaccine doses that are ready to expire:
Several state health departments told STAT they have repeatedly asked the federal government to redistribute their supply to other countries, many of which are facing a third wave of the Covid-19 pandemic. Officials in Washington have rejected those requests, citing legal and logistical challenges.

“We’re drowning in this stuff,” said Robert Ator, a retired colonel in the Arkansas Air National Guard who is leading that state’s Covid-19 vaccine distribution drive. “It’s starting to get a bit silly and we want to make sure we’re being good stewards.”

Some of the wastage could be forestalled if U.S. health officials extend the shelf life of the vaccine developed by Pfizer, but such expiration dates can only be extended so far.
The idea that these vaccines are sitting around while the virus is rampaging in different parts of the globe because they don't have access is beyond depressing.

I'm telling you - 100 years from now historians from around the globe are not going to understand what the F happened here in America.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
Zaxxon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 28118
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Surrounded by Mountains

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Zaxxon »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:59 pm I'm telling you - 100 years from now historians from around the globe are not going to understand what the F happened here in America.
Also, like, now.
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51303
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by hepcat »

Someone send up the Randsneighborman signal. He’s the silent avenger we all need.
Covfefe!
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 43501
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Blackhawk »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:59 pm I'm telling you - 100 years from now historians from around the globe are not going to understand what the F happened here in America.
If they aren't living in a post-climate Mad Max wildland, they'll be working for the state.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43690
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Kraken »

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:02 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:59 pm I'm telling you - 100 years from now historians from around the globe are not going to understand what the F happened here in America.
Also, like, now.
I'm starting to entertain the idea that democracy isn't up to the challenge and might not be worth saving.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Isgrimnur »

Unfortunately the track record for Benevolent Dictator isn't so great.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Kraken wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:23 pm I'm starting to entertain the idea that democracy isn't up to the challenge and might not be worth saving.
I am thinking our legacy will be to serve as an example of what happens when a significant portion of a society values personal liberty above everything else.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
Post Reply