The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[malchior]

I just saw that NY just expanded eligibility despite the supply issues. Did they see the mess/churn that caused in NJ and just said 'nah - it'll be fine'? Is everyone just aiming for chaos? Why would you pile more people into an undersized queue? I'm utterly baffled by the decisions these leaders are making.

[Smoove_B]

I bet that's true. It'll be hard not to just straight out say 'they are incompetent' in the thesis statement but there are creative ways to do it.

Just saw this about NJ's registration/database system.

New Jersey's Microsoft-powered coronavirus vaccine-registration system has not worked properly for the past five weeks, according to officials, and may never work as specified.

The US state's CovidVaccine.nj.gov website is supposed to allow people to book appointments for their shots, and uses Redmond's Vaccination Management platform – a collection of software tools for tackling the COVID-19 virus pandemic.

Yet since its launch on January 5, the application has dropped offline for periods lasting days at a time, lost or double-booked appointments, and turned away netizens, among other reported glitches. It has required daily bugfixes, say officials, who fear it won't ever fully operate as specified.

...

“We are working with the state of New Jersey to deliver vaccinations as quickly, safely and efficiently as possible, and that includes addressing some technical issues,” a Microsoft spokesperson told Bloomberg, which earlier today first reported the scale of the IT breakdown.

[malchior]

FFS. That tracks with what I saw. I suspected our registrations fell into some black hole. I love the theme here in Murphy's administration that it is always is the vendor's fault. They selected the vendor. They are ultimately responsible for their performance. What does it say that every vendor effort seems to fail in Murphy's administration? That expands out to the MVC debacle we saw and other state efforts. Luckily there is no non-traitorous alternative.

Edit:

Meanwhile, Oklahoma has said it's managed to get by with Redmond's platform with just a few glitches.

Yeah. No surprise.

[Smoove_B]

If you go all the way back the Spring of 2020, I was pointing out this this is ultimately a symptom of NJ's strong home rule. The counties run the local health function in NJ and the state is more a less a conduit for information and federal money. Unfortunately every county for themselves doesn't work in a pandemic so the state was forced to create state-level infrastructure (vaccination registration, contact tracing) from the ground up, starting last April. Of course it's a mess - it's being scrapped together in the middle of an emergency. Sure, Murphy owns some of it, but quite frankly it's because of how the state's public health system is organized - which he has nothing to do with. He's been left holding the bag on a system that has never been tested this way. Home rule works great, until it doesn't. I want to believe this will break the back of how our state is organized, but I'm sure it won't.

[malchior]

I get that perspective but then I look at other big IT projects, the MVC computer modernization one is a great example. They needed to do it for REAL ID and it just shit the bed in unbelievable ways. It's still broken and that left morale in such a bad state that when COVID hit and the state needed to get concessions they pissed off the whole workforce and they've been forcing service outages since the summer. It's a huge mess.

There are other non-IT projects before the crisis where I saw the same thing. The reality is that the Murphy administration is *ABYSMAL* at project governance. Some of it is home rule but that isn't a new thing in NJ. There are agencies that do a great job in NJ. For example, believe it or not the NJ Turnpike Authority. They ran a project where they widened the turnpike below 8A which required dozens of new bridges to be built across many towns and counties. They came in on-time and on-budget. That pretty much came down to a couple of really capable executives. NJ home rule is definitely a factor and this health issue may be entirely different, but what really gets my dander up is they never *ever* own their errors. It is always just excuses and then they repeat their errors. They get away with it because no one watches them anymore.

[Smoove_B]

Oh yeah, the MVC is all on the state. It wouldn't surprise me though to learn that the "let's outsource" mentality for dealing with the pandemic stems from projects like the MVC. There are other state-level health programs (medicaid transport) that have been outsourced for 15+ years now (I think) - coordinating rides for NJ medicare patients by using a call center in Georgia. Because that makes sense. Honestly, that everything is such a mess shouldn't be a problem for anyone that has even a basic understanding of NJ's dysfunction. But of course in my part of NJ, the "real" reason is that Murphy is intentionally withholding vaccines from people, to punish Trump loyalists. Because we all know the Trump loyalists are urgently demanding vaccinations.

[stimpy]

Honest question.
Biden has been in office for almost a month now.
Has he made any meaningful impact on the prevention or distribution of shots for the virus?
At least here in Illinois, there is absolutely zero difference in how things are being handled. If anything, it's worse.
And yes.....I know....it's all a shitshow left to him by Trump.
But that should have only impeded Biden for so long until he is able to implement the policy changes he was so adamant about that would get things on track.
As far as I can tell, very little to nothing has been done. Still see non-maskers. Still see major shortages of the shot. Still see various States in disarray.
No hard mandates have been enforced that I can tell.
Am I missing something? I know 3-4 weeks isnt that long, but expected to see some movement on the new administrations end.

[Smoove_B]

You can probably consider 1/21/21 as "day zero" for an official, coordinated federal response. There's been a slight increase in vaccine production, but they're still ultimately limited by what Trump didn't do from last September/October when he was advised of delivery options for the Spring here in the United States. That being said, there should be noticeable increases in shipments (I think) in another 7-10 days (closer to the end of February, but how your state is handling it I honestly can't say. Here, you'd need to look into what your state is saying about capacity. For example, NJ allegedly has the ability to offer ~400K vaccinations a day right now, but we're capped at 130K doses coming in every week. That's a significant gap in supply.

Regarding masks, Biden has no ability to make a national mask mandate for states AFAIK. He's required it on federal properties, but he can't make your town in Illinois comply. He can offer your state incentives to enact mask programs, but ultimately it's up to your local/county/state leadership to adopt and enforce.

[LordMortis]

Honest question.
Biden has been in office for almost a month now.
Has he made any meaningful impact on the prevention or distribution of shots for the virus?
At least here in Illinois, there is absolutely zero difference in how things are being handled. If anything, it's worse.
And yes.....I know....it's all a shitshow left to him by Trump.
But that should have only impeded Biden for so long until he is able to implement the policy changes he was so adamant about that would get things on track.
As far as I can tell, very little to nothing has been done. Still see non-maskers. Still see major shortages of the shot. Still see various States in disarray.
No hard mandates have been enforced that I can tell.
Am I missing something? I know 3-4 weeks isnt that long, but expected to see some movement on the new administrations end.

From where I sit, Biden has made the promise to distribute more and all of the talking heads say distribution is up up up. But locally, we're still on the elderly and health care workers and the elderly are can't even get a good method to find out when they can get in line.. unless you live in an upper class geography. Then things are moving along nicely. It that Biden's fault or Whitmer's or the counties? I have no idea. All I know, is last week they saying if you want a shot you will be able to get one by April/May. A whole lot of shit needs to happen in March for that to be anything approaching reality. I won't say it's impossible but I'm sure not smart enough to see the path takes my state from 100's of 1000's in February to 1,000,000's in May.

I don't know what Biden could do to promote mask wearing more than he has. He gets a pass from me there.

I will also note that even as Biden made is proclamation last week, the state's time table has not changed and the counties are almost all doing much worse than the states proclamation on timing.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/coro ... 0349_7.pdf

[stessier]

I'm also seeing ads on TV that masks should be worn by everyone - which isn't a lot, but at least it's a consistent message. Talking heads give daily updates on progress and projections about what should be coming and when. We haven't hit any of their deadlines, so it's hard to say if they're being accurate or not, but no one is running around saying that they are lying (that I've seen anyway).

[stimpy]

My 91yo Mom had to make an appointment in Indiana to get in for the shot in any kind of reasonable time frame.
With the weather we've had, it's been near impossible to get her there in a safe fashion.
We had one setup for next week, but her doctor called and said they were getting some in and could schedule her for first week of March. We decided to do that instead.

[malchior]

You can probably consider 1/21/21 as "day zero" for an official, coordinated federal response. There's been a slight increase in vaccine production, but they're still ultimately limited by what Trump didn't do from last September/October when he was advised of delivery options for the Spring here in the United States.

I'll also add that he has gotten a commitment to get a lot more vaccine supply by the summer. I don't think a 2nd Trump administration would have even bothered.

Regarding masks, Biden has no ability to make a national mask mandate for states AFAIK. He's required it on federal properties, but he can't make your town in Illinois comply. He can offer your state incentives to enact mask programs, but ultimately it's up to your local/county/state leadership to adopt and enforce.

Congress actually has the best shot at this IMO. If the Democrats attached a 'mask mandate' for COVID-19 state support funding. it'd go a long way. I'd make the funding into a pool. If Trump-y states don't want to implement the state mandate then that cash can go to states that give a damn about their citizens.

[Lorini]

He can require mask wearing on interstate travel (planes, trains, buses) which is what he did, but 10th amendment stops him from doing much more than that.

[Blackhawk]

And changes honestly take time. Something this big has momentum. You change the system, and the system takes time to implement that change, and only then do you start to see the impact of the changes.

[Jaymon]

Maybe this is just generalizing, but somebody who is anti-mask, probably isn't going to start wearing one because Biden said so. Just doesn't seem like that is the kind of person.

[YellowKing]

Consistent messaging and consistent policies apply societal pressure, particularly to people who are kind of on the fence and don't have strongly held convictions either way. And as you start flipping more of those people into doing the right thing, the more pressure you put on the hold outs.

Heck, we're barely 2 months into vaccinations and I've already had multiple people I know get the vaccine who swore back in December they'd never take it. Peer pressure is a helluva drug.

[Daehawk]

Heck, we're barely 2 months into vaccinations and I've already had multiple people I know get the vaccine who swore back in December they'd never take it.

I was one. I was going to hold out until late in the year due to the vaccine seems rushed to me. But Id take one now due to the new strains emerging. Would like some protection. But I cant get them yet. Plus I haven't decided which I want. Leaning a little pfizer. But know a woman that had Moderns and hardly any side effects. Shrug. But Im not off the fence due to peer pressure just my own research and feelings.

[ImLawBoy]

I don't know how they're doing it in Tennessee, but around here you don't get to pick and choose your vaccine manufacturer. I found out I got the Moderna vaccine when I looked at my vaccination card.

[Remus West]

I don't know how they're doing it in Tennessee, but around here you don't get to pick and choose your vaccine manufacturer. I found out I got the Moderna vaccine when I looked at my vaccination card.

I got shot 1 pfizer today and found out the same way, looking at the card. Michigan.

[LordMortis]

I don't know how they're doing it in Tennessee, but around here you don't get to pick and choose your vaccine manufacturer. I found out I got the Moderna vaccine when I looked at my vaccination card.

I got shot 1 pfizer today and found out the same way, looking at the card. Michigan.

Was that through your school district? Everything I find from your county the your local health care systems still don't firm lines for 65+ much less front line workers who aren't in medical.

[malchior]

CNN

Florida's Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis has threatened to move a pop-up vaccination clinic that his state has set up in an affluent community in Manatee County after he was confronted with allegations of political favoritism and preference for the wealthy at a news conference Wednesday.

Manatee County announced on Tuesday that Florida's Division of Emergency Management would host a "pop-up" vaccination spot at Lakewood Ranch this week for 3,000 Manatee County residents, according to a statement from the county.
The vaccines, however, would be limited to people living in only two zip codes -- 34202 and 34211.

Manatee County Commissioner Misty Servia, a Republican, criticized the selection of these two areas at a Board of County Commissioners work session on Tuesday.

"You're taking the Whitest demographic, the richest demographic in Manatee County and putting them ahead of everyone else," Servia said. "The optics are bad ... very bad -- I'm really disappointed," she added.

Commissioner Reggie Bellamy, a Democrat, also noted that he's been "fighting like hell to show people that the (vaccine) lottery is equal and we cannot compromise the system."

"And now all of a sudden someone is telling me that we were able to go in and pull names out -- pull a certain demographic out -- and say, 'These are the people that we're going to serve,'" he added at the Tuesday meeting.

Board of County Commissioners Chair Vanessa Baugh, a Republican who is a strong supporter of DeSantis, said that the clinic "was done strictly by the governor who called Rex Jensen ... they wanted to do a pop up session in Lakewood Ranch."

Jensen is the CEO of Schroeder-Manatee Ranch, the parent company of Lakewood Ranch, according to the company's website. The development is an affluent community that boasts new home prices "from the $180,000s to more than $1 million," according to its website.

[Smoove_B]

There's a saying in my field that correlation is not causation, but...

[Remus West]

Was that through your school district? Everything I find from your county the your local health care systems still don't firm lines for 65+ much less front line workers who aren't in medical.

Through school, yes, but they are supposed to be doing lotteries for everyone in the eligible groups (1A and B). That said, I know of many people who do not qualify that have already been fully vaccinated. It is clearly a system in need of a lot of work and right now they seem more intent on just getting shots into arms.

[LordMortis]

Through school, yes, but they are supposed to be doing lotteries for everyone in the eligible groups (1A and B). That said, I know of many people who do not qualify that have already been fully vaccinated. It is clearly a system in need of a lot of work and right now they seem more intent on just getting shots into arms.

Yeah, but who is the they who are intent and how do you get in line with them. Washenaw county, and its various hospital systems all have systems that state "keep checking back" with regard to group 1BA (as does Wayne county for that matter) which was open for vaccination before your 1BC. My father finally got in line to get in line when Meijer Pharmacy started taking registrations last week, allowing him to bypass the county and health care systems that basically said "Don't Call Us, but keep checking back". He still doesn't have a date but at least he finally has a place in line.

A know a few that shouldn't be in a line yet that have been vaccinated but not in contact with them enough to parse how.

As part of 1CB, I keep checking the state guidelines as the news keeps saying we keep beating expectations for delivery but the state guidelines still say May and lord knows Wayne and Washenaw counties won't be promptly working on group 1CB when the state opens up to us and given that obesity qualifies you to be in 1CB, that group is not going to be small. Get it. 1CB isn't small because we're fat.

[gbasden]

There's a saying in my field that correlation is not causation, but...

We don't *know* that it caused it, but we should keep him off the internet just in case.

[Remus West]

Through school, yes, but they are supposed to be doing lotteries for everyone in the eligible groups (1A and B). That said, I know of many people who do not qualify that have already been fully vaccinated. It is clearly a system in need of a lot of work and right now they seem more intent on just getting shots into arms.

Yeah, but who is the they who are intent and how do you get in line with them. Washenaw county, and its various hospital systems all have systems that state "keep checking back" with regard to group 1BA (as does Wayne county for that matter) which was open for vaccination before your 1BC. My father finally got in line to get in line when Meijer Pharmacy started taking registrations last week, allowing him to bypass the county and health care systems that basically said "Don't Call Us, but keep checking back". He still doesn't have a date but at least he finally has a place in line.

A know a few that shouldn't be in a line yet that have been vaccinated but not in contact with them enough to parse how.

As part of 1CB, I keep checking the state guidelines as the news keeps saying we keep beating expectations for delivery but the state guidelines still say May and lord knows Wayne and Washenaw counties won't be promptly working on group 1CB when the state opens up to us and given that obesity qualifies you to be in 1CB, that group is not going to be small. Get it. 1CB isn't small because we're fat.

I honestly am not sure how I finally got my appointment. I had signed up for every place that would let me sign up and then finally got one that gave me an appointment through the district - but as you and I both have noted, there have been plenty of people getting shots that technically should not be yet.

BTW, unless you have put on a lot of CoVid weight I have a hard time seeing you as obese. You were downright slim last time I saw you.

[Remus West]

There's a saying in my field that correlation is not causation, but...

We don't *know* that it caused it, but we should keep him off the planet just in case.

ftfy.
BTW, I think Venus would be a good destination for him. Or maybe Mercury. Or Sol.

[LordMortis]

BTW, unless you have put on a lot of CoVid weight I have a hard time seeing you as obese. You were downright slim last time I saw you.

I'm at 230 with not an ounce of muscle on me (My pre-covid lockdown weight was 255ish). I'm definitely obese but that is not why I consider myself high risk. It's the asthma, high blood pressure, stent in heart, crone's, and on immunosuppresants that make me high risk.

I'm glad for you, I'm upset for my father and upset that my mother hit a wall with worrying about getting in line in January and is now resistant to being immunized at all. Me? I want go game face to face again, but I'll get by, at least until it's warm and spring fever sets in.

[hitbyambulance]

Heck, we're barely 2 months into vaccinations and I've already had multiple people I know get the vaccine who swore back in December they'd never take it.

I was one. I was going to hold out until late in the year due to the vaccine seems rushed to me. But Id take one now due to the new strains emerging. Would like some protection. But I cant get them yet. Plus I haven't decided which I want. Leaning a little pfizer. But know a woman that had Moderns and hardly any side effects. Shrug. But Im not off the fence due to peer pressure just my own research and feelings.

of interest:

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/17/the ... esentment/

[Little Raven]

Ugh.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has been pleading with lawmakers for support and even threatening political retribution against Democrats who have criticized him in an aggressive effort to contain political fallout from revelations that his administration had concealed the full extent of nursing home-related deaths during the Covid pandemic.

Describing an alleged exchange with the governor that has not been previously reported, Democratic Assemblyman Ron Kim told CNN that he received a call on his cell phone from the governor last week as he was bathing his children at home.
"Gov. Cuomo called me directly on Thursday to threaten my career if I did not cover up for Melissa [DeRosa] and what she said. He tried to pressure me to issue a statement, and it was a very traumatizing experience," Kim said. Cuomo proceeded to tell the assemblyman that "we're in this business together and we don't cross certain lines and he said I hadn't seen his wrath and that he can destroy me," according to Kim.

And this was the guy that literally wrote the book on COVID control.

[gbasden]

There's a saying in my field that correlation is not causation, but...

We don't *know* that it caused it, but we should keep him off the planet just in case.

ftfy.
BTW, I think Venus would be a good destination for him. Or maybe Mercury. Or Sol.

I approve of this line of thinking, sir! It certainly couldn't hurt.

[Daehawk]

I think Musk could get him to Sol. From color alone it must be his homeworld.

[Defiant]

Currently, the U.S. is administering 1.6 million doses a day, constrained by the current supply of about 10 million to 15 million doses a week. But manufacturers and U.S. officials have accelerated their production timelines and signaled that the spigots are about to open. That will provide hundreds of millions of doses to match the growing capacity to immunize people at pharmacies and mass-vaccination sites.

A review of drugmakers’ public statements and their supply deals suggests that the number of vaccines delivered should rise to almost 20 million a week in March, more than 25 million a week in April and May, and over 30 million a week June. By summer, it would be enough to give 4.5 million shots a day.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newslett ... -to-double

[Smoove_B]

It's paywalled, but the news finally broke about what's happening here in NJ. One of major hospital systems in the northern part of our state was in charge of running multiple county sites for vaccination. Rather than use the state's web portal, they created their own. People fill out a form and you register with them for notification that slots are available, and when something opens the hospital system sends you an email. Sounds terrific.

Well, what actually has been happening for the last ~5 weeks is that when it's your turn, the hospital system sends you an email with a link to another site. It's at this site that you provide additional information and register your time, location, etc...

However the link they send to you for this process isn't unique. It's not published but it's not gated in any way. If you have the link, the system assumes you were provided access via email so they let you register.

For the last month people have been passing this link around to friends, family members, coworkers - anyone. And completely filling up all available slots. Pre-registering to be notified didn't matter. Having someone send you a link mattered.

The person/team that developed this should be fired into the sun. This wasn't the state of NJ that did this;it was a healthcare system. 5 weeks later, they're announcing that notification emails will contain a one-time use unique link and cannot be shared. Unreal. How did a developer not see this happening?

[Lorini]

That’d make me want to quit my job. How stupid can you get??

[Smoove_B]

Hey, North Dakota, how's it going?

By only two votes, the North Dakota House of Representatives passed a bill that would make mask mandates illegal in the future.

The issue of mask mandates was hotly debated during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, and which level of government should be the one to issue a mandate.

A small group of lawmakers said no level of government should be allowed to order the use of masks, arguing it was an infringement of freedoms.

“Our state is not a prison camp,” Rep. Jeff Hoverson, R-Minot, said.

[Smoove_B]

J&J will deliver 20 million doses by the end of March.

“Assuming necessary regulatory approvals relating to our manufacturing processes, our plan is to begin shipping immediately upon emergency use authorization, and deliver enough single-doses by the end of March to enable the vaccination of more than 20 million Americans,” according to a statement Nettles is expected to deliver Tuesday to the subcommittee.

The statement also indicated the company is still “confident in our plans to deliver 100 million single-dose vaccines to the United States during the first half of 2021, and we are continuing to partner with the U.S. government to explore all options to accelerate delivery.”

[Smoove_B]

Just received my notification I should register to vaccinate, via the state's notification system! I verify my credentials and it then gives me 4 locations in a different county that are only open to county residents and a final site that is 85 miles away.

[Unagi]

Highly illogical

[El Guapo]

My sister and I have been trying to get an appointment for our mother on the MA website (vaxfinder.mass.gov). Last Thursday they released a bunch of appointments but the website crashed and we weren't able to get through. The appointments largely disappeared by the end of the day, and there hasn't been much indication of openings since then (though at least the website is now operating smoothly!).

So...not sure when we'll get an appointment. TBD!

And that still leaves myself and my siblings. And I mean, it'd be great if my kids' teachers could get vaccinated. Maybe they are, who knows.