Octopus Overlords

It's interesting what the difference in location makes. I was out yesterday at the grocery store and Costco, and mask compliance was darned near 100% yet.

gbasden wrote:
It's interesting what the difference in location makes. I was out yesterday at the grocery store and Costco, and mask compliance was darned near 100% yet. After not getting sick at all this winter, I'm probably going to continue wearing a mask to do crowded shopping.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 5:29 pm I really don't know who to believe here. Virologists and scientists...or Nate Silver. I look forward to the day when Nate Silver never talks about anything public health related ever again.

In response to the WHO report, the US and 13 allies including South Korea, Australia and the UK voiced concern over the findings and urged China to provide "full access" to experts.

The statement said the mission to Wuhan was "significantly delayed and lacked access to complete, original data and samples".

"Scientific missions like these should be able to do their work under conditions that produce independent and objective recommendations and findings."

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 9:28 pm It's also conceivable that the lab isolated SARS-CoV-2, was studying it, and had a whoopsie. We just don't know. To be clear, I don't believe that it was "lab-grown" in the sense of being artificially engineered.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:14 am Grocery store yesterday had signs posted saying that fully vaccinated people did not need to wear masks, but all others did. I'd say we still had about 95% of people wearing masks, including all but one employee (who had his mask under his chin - I suspect he'll get in trouble if someone reported him). It'll be interesting to see how this evolves.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:14 am Grocery store yesterday had signs posted saying that fully vaccinated people did not need to wear masks, but all others did. I'd say we still had about 95% of people wearing masks, including all but one employee (who had his mask under his chin - I suspect he'll get in trouble if someone reported him). It'll be interesting to see how this evolves.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 12:06 pmBoystown

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 12:08 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 12:06 pmBoystown

Northalsted

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 12:06 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:14 am Grocery store yesterday had signs posted saying that fully vaccinated people did not need to wear masks, but all others did. I'd say we still had about 95% of people wearing masks, including all but one employee (who had his mask under his chin - I suspect he'll get in trouble if someone reported him). It'll be interesting to see how this evolves.

Haven't seen a sign like that yet, still seeing mask requirement in stores and restaurants indoors.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 12:16 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 12:08 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 12:06 pmBoystown

Northalsted

Sears Tower
Comisky

NEW: Effective May 28th, the statewide indoor mask mandate will be lifted.

Businesses and entities overseeing indoor spaces may continue to require face masks for employees, customers, and/or guests.

Effective June 4th, we will remove all indoor gathering limits.

We will also lift the 30% limit on large indoor venues with a fixed seating capacity of 1,000 or greater.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 1:34 pm Big news for NJ:

NEW: Effective May 28th, the statewide indoor mask mandate will be lifted.

Businesses and entities overseeing indoor spaces may continue to require face masks for employees, customers, and/or guests.

LE PECQ, France (AP) — Social media influencers in France with hundreds of thousands of followers say a mysterious advertising agency offered to pay them if they agreed to smear Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine with negative fake stories.

French YouTuber Léo Grasset was among those contacted. He said Tuesday that he was offered a potentially lucrative but also hush-hush deal to make bogus claims that Pfizer’s vaccine poses a deadly risk and that regulators and mainstream media are covering up the supposed dangers.

Anton’s emails included a password-protected link to a set of instructions in error-strewn English for the would-be campaign.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 12:47 pm

LE PECQ, France (AP) — Social media influencers in France with hundreds of thousands of followers say a mysterious advertising agency offered to pay them if they agreed to smear Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine with negative fake stories.

French YouTuber Léo Grasset was among those contacted. He said Tuesday that he was offered a potentially lucrative but also hush-hush deal to make bogus claims that Pfizer’s vaccine poses a deadly risk and that regulators and mainstream media are covering up the supposed dangers.

Game afoot.

Father in Kentucky sobbingly promises daughter $2,000 to not get vaccinated

NEW: Today, I’ll issue an Executive Order giving additional guidance and flexibility to employers – especially those in office settings – as they look to their own continued return to normal operating practices.

This order will be effective June 4th.

President Joe Biden announced Wednesday that he has ordered a closer intelligence review of what he said were two equally plausible scenarios of the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Biden revealed that earlier this year he tasked the intelligence community with preparing “a report on their most up-to-date analysis of the origins of Covid-19, including whether it emerged from human contact with an infected animal or from a laboratory accident.”

“As of today, the U.S. Intelligence Community has ‘coalesced around two likely scenarios’ but has not reached a definitive conclusion on this question,” Biden said in a statement.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:20 pm I will continue to follow the scientific community that has overwhelming stated that while it's *technically* possible this was a lab leak, there's no evidence to suggest it was and in fact the evidence they have seen suggests the opposite - that it's a naturally occurring phenomenon. I've yet to see a respected virologist or zoonotic infectious disease researcher voice anything suggesting it was intentional. Of course as good scientists they're open to the possibility, but so far nothing has suggested it in any way.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:11 pm Sorry, I was being sloppy. I didn't mean to say (or imply) intentionally released. Instead, "Intentionally created", i.e. not something that just came into existence based on what we already know about zoonotic illnesses.

"Gain of function" is just fancy talk for scientists manipulating organisms in some way to increase things like transmissiblity or infectiousness - tweaking genetic elements to see what happens. For science.

Again, maybe to much to read, but from 2015, a paper, from deep inside the conspiracy. I'd have to look, but IIRC so much of this comes from being blindsided by SARS and MERS in the 2000s and the real concern it could have spiraled into something much, much worse.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:34 pm So do I understand you correctly that while it's theoretically possible that Chinese scientists intentionally created COVID in a lab as part of "gain of function" scientific research (not as a bioweapon), but that it's very unlikely based upon what we know? What is it that we know that makes this unlikely (vs. natural mutation in the wild)?

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:34 pm So do I understand you correctly that while it's theoretically possible that Chinese scientists intentionally created COVID in a lab as part of "gain of function" scientific research (not as a bioweapon), but that it's very unlikely based upon what we know? What is it that we know that makes this unlikely (vs. natural mutation in the wild)?

Also, in theory COVID could have arisen in the wild, been isolated in a lab for study, and then been accidentally released, right? Is that also unlikely?

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:35 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:34 pm So do I understand you correctly that while it's theoretically possible that Chinese scientists intentionally created COVID in a lab as part of "gain of function" scientific research (not as a bioweapon), but that it's very unlikely based upon what we know? What is it that we know that makes this unlikely (vs. natural mutation in the wild)?

Also, in theory COVID could have arisen in the wild, been isolated in a lab for study, and then been accidentally released, right? Is that also unlikely?

Yes. I'll try to rank this based on my understanding. However, it's not a linear progression of likelihood from 1-5

(1) Chinese scientists created SARS-CoV-2 in a lab for nefarious purposes
(2) Chinese scientists found and then modified SARS-CoV-2 in a lab and released it for nefarious purposes
(3) Chinese scientists found and then modified SARS-CoV-2 and accidentally infected themselves
(4) Chinese scientists discovered SARS-CoV-2 in the wild and were researching at, then accidentally infected themselves
(5) SARS-CoV-2 randomly appeared in nature

#1-#3 are the scenarios being pushed to further some type of agenda against China. These are the least likely scenarios based on the virologists and zoonotic researchers I trust saying the genetic and physiological nature of SARS-CoV-2 does not suggest any type of human manipulation (in part or in whole).

#4 is certainly possible, thought it also seems unlikely, mainly because you'd expect scientists that accidentally infect themselves to not rush out and spread it. However, I guess if they they infected themselves and were all asymptomatic they could have inadvertently introduced it outside the lab; I'm not sure how you'd prove this.

#5 is still the most likely culprit just based on what we know about how viruses jump species all the time. It's also part of the reason research exists - to figure out if we can understand why they jump and then if they do, how could they be really bad for humans ("gain of function") - what type of mutations or changes are needed? How likely is that to happen? Would a jump result in a really deadly disease that isn't highly communicable? Or would it involve jumping and it's not deadly at all but spreads pretty easily? Could it then evolve into something more problematic? This is where Rand Paul is talking out of his ass (or mouth, same thing) and trying to come up with some nefarious motivation for research, completely oblivious to the idea that emerging infectious diseases is a whole field of study and something scientists from around the globe had been watching.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:33 pm I did my 'browse' shopping trip today. I visited nine different locations. Mask usage was maybe 2%.

Honest truth: The mask era is over. The arguments are over. Some of us will continue to wear them for now, but the battle is done, and it is unlikely that we'll be able to go back if and when it is needed.