Michigan

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paulbaxter
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Michigan

Post by paulbaxter »

I left Michigan in 1996, so I don't follow things there very closely, but certainly have plenty of friends and contacts still there. I was quite surprised, though, to see that my former pastor there, Ralph Rebandt, has just announced his candidacy for the governor's race. I'd never seen him express any interest in politics in the time I knew him.

FWIW, I have nothing but respect for him as a person, he was a great pastor to me and our church when I was there. He's very kind and thoughtful, cares deeply about the people he knows and comes into contact with, and has served as a chaplain for the local police and fire departments. He's running as a republican.

I can't and won't comment on his politics, I was was just really surprised to see someone I was so close to running for office at that level.
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Remus West
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Re: Michigan

Post by Remus West »

If he is running as a Republican then he is either a very changed man from the one you knew or has no shot in the primary. Our State Republican party is quietly (well, relative to the rest of the crazy shit they have done) going more and more trumpist. They suck.
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Re: Michigan

Post by Holman »

A religious figure running as a Republican has a clear responsibility to forcefully denounce the Christian Nationalism of today's GOP.

If you know him, you should impress this upon him as strongly as you can. Otherwise he's just more Falwell/Cruz/Bachman/QAnon, tacitly or actively.
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Re: Michigan

Post by Jaymann »

Gretchen Whitmer es la bomba.
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paulbaxter
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Re: Michigan

Post by paulbaxter »

Holman wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:36 pm A religious figure running as a Republican has a clear responsibility to forcefully denounce the Christian Nationalism of today's GOP.

If you know him, you should impress this upon him as strongly as you can. Otherwise he's just more Falwell/Cruz/Bachman/QAnon, tacitly or actively.
I'm with you on that, and I have respect for folks like Ben Sasse and David French who've done exactly that. But as I've said, I'm bowing out of the specific political stuff here related to him, and I'm not in any position to comment on Michigan politics in general.
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Re: Michigan

Post by stimpy »

paulbaxter wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:10 pm But as I've said, I'm bowing out of the specific political stuff here related to him, and I'm not in any position to comment on Michigan politics in general.
What's the point of this post, then?
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paulbaxter
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Re: Michigan

Post by paulbaxter »

stimpy wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:17 pm
paulbaxter wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:10 pm But as I've said, I'm bowing out of the specific political stuff here related to him, and I'm not in any position to comment on Michigan politics in general.
What's the point of this post, then?
I dunno, just how often do you see someone you know jump into a governor's race? And I figured there were a few folks here who follow MI politics who might find it interesting.

Maybe it'll morph into general discussion of Michigan politics if folks want to do that, but I'll just spectate.
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Isgrimnur
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Re: Michigan

Post by Isgrimnur »

Campaign Website
The Lighthouse Initiative involves four words, four values, four strategies, and four solutions.
...
Four Words
In. God. We. Trust.
...
Four Values
Truth. Dignity. Respect. Love.
...
Dignity
...
Ralph speaks out on behalf of the protection of human life. He supports state legislation and citizen initiatives that will uphold and protect the life of unborn boys and girls and the conversation central to that protection, and is a staunch proponent of life.
Love
...
Government is an entity. It can’t love. This was made apparent by the many ways government tried to fix the pandemic. People were pushed aside and the government stepped in. ... If big government is removed from its lofty position, it will carve space for individuals, churches, and community groups to love and care for each other, and to make decisions based on a person’s name rather than a government I.D. number.
...
Four Strategies
God. Family. Country
Community Policing
Operation Roundtable
The Lighthouse Initiative
...
Ralph has served for 30 years as the police chaplain for the Michigan Chiefs of Police, the Southeastern Michigan Chiefs of Police, and for two local police departments in Michigan. He has seen first-hand the professionalism of Michigan’s police officers, not only on the streets, but also in pro-active training for law enforcement personnel. He will never defund the police, state, county, or local.
...
Four Solutions
Election Integrity
Budget Accountability
Educational Reforms
Constitutional Protection
...
Ralph has signed the National Pledge from Americans for Tax Reform not to raise taxes.
....
Each parent should have the privilege of choosing what kind of education is best for their child, and where they should receive it.
Seems on-brand for his party of choice.
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Re: Michigan

Post by Kraken »

It hinges on his "Truth" and "election integrity" planks. If the Big Lie is his truth, then election integrity means voter suppression and he's in step with the authoritarians. The pro-police, anti-choice, tax cuts, and God quotes are just old-fashioned Republican orthodoxy.
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Re: Michigan

Post by Daehawk »

Someone get Ralph a refill..his kool-aid cup must be empty by now.
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Re: Michigan

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Strike while the iron is hot. I mean, never a better time for him to run.


I love my home state but damn, it has some issues.
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LordMortis
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Re: Michigan

Post by LordMortis »

I am guessing Craig will run. Whitmer will lose and our legislature goes nuts with voter suppression, corruption, and abuse of power. Craig is well respected but will let our legislature run roughshod over the state.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ ... 020562001/
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Unagi
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Re: Michigan

Post by Unagi »

paulbaxter wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:24 pm
I can't and won't comment on his politics
May I ask, why not ??


edit: sorry, I just now see that you’ve been asked and don’t want to comment further.


I guess I’m wondering if you are saying you can’t/won’t comment, to him, or to us here as well as to him.
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El Guapo
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Re: Michigan

Post by El Guapo »

At this point only Republican governors in solid blue states (Maryland, Massachusetts) are allowed to retain both their sanity and their electability. Unfortunately Michigan isn't blue enough for that to be the case anymore, it seems.
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Re: Michigan

Post by Smoove_B »

Anyone picking up the mantle of the current GOP to run for public office is suspect right now, imho. I don't know crap about Michigan's politics either but I'm pretty clear on GOP branding right now.
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Re: Michigan

Post by LordMortis »

El Guapo wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:36 am At this point only Republican governors in solid blue states (Maryland, Massachusetts) are allowed to retain both their sanity and their electability. Unfortunately Michigan isn't blue enough for that to be the case anymore, it seems.
Michigan has a gerrymandered legislature that is profoundly red and has been fighting to retain and expand its sphere of power irrespective of the electorate at least since Engler and probably longer. After the 2020 election, a GOP governor rubberstamping the state legislative body and Laura Cox' not so shrouded in secrecy agenda would set our ability to have fairly elected officials on the same path as the deep red states whom all just sued to keep my vote from counting.
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Re: Michigan

Post by paulbaxter »

Unagi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:47 am
paulbaxter wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:24 pm
I can't and won't comment on his politics
May I ask, why not ??


edit: sorry, I just now see that you’ve been asked and don’t want to comment further.


I guess I’m wondering if you are saying you can’t/won’t comment, to him, or to us here as well as to him.
I suppose I'm just treading a line between the fact that he's someone I know and like and I want him to do well in general on the one hand, and on the other I don't know about his political feelings, don't have any particular reason to think they would be the same as mine, and don't want to get involved in either defending him OR attacking him, if that makes sense. He's a great guy and I don't have any reason to think he has skeletons in his closet, so that's where I want to leave things for my part.
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Unagi
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Re: Michigan

Post by Unagi »

paulbaxter wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:54 pm
Unagi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:47 am
paulbaxter wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:24 pm I can't and won't comment on his politics
May I ask, why not ??
edit: sorry, I just now see that you’ve been asked and don’t want to comment further.
I guess I’m wondering if you are saying you can’t/won’t comment, to him, or to us here as well as to him.
I suppose I'm just treading a line between the fact that he's someone I know and like and I want him to do well in general on the one hand, and on the other I don't know about his political feelings, don't have any particular reason to think they would be the same as mine, and don't want to get involved in either defending him OR attacking him, if that makes sense. He's a great guy and I don't have any reason to think he has skeletons in his closet, so that's where I want to leave things for my part.
I don't mean this confrontationally, but it sounds like you just want to keep liking him and are afraid to look under the covers. (perhaps that's exactly what you are saying too)

As others have stated (and I suspect you agree with, for the most part), people entering the GOP right now have really one of two (three?) agendas. To stand against what they saw for the last 4 years, and what happened on Jan 6th.... Or to get on board that movement (now that can be as an opportunist looking for power, or because their messaging actually speaks to their beliefs, etc.)

I guess I just feel if I knew and liked someone that made this move, I would very much want to know what his reasoning for joining the political sphere was... It should be quickly obvious if he was in the latter or former 2 agendas, and that would seem like a really easy way to decide if he is someone you actually want to 'do well'. I mean, I guess I am saying: you don't know what it is he wants to do - so I wouldn't be so fast to wish him well with it.
Last edited by Unagi on Tue May 11, 2021 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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El Guapo
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Re: Michigan

Post by El Guapo »

Unagi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:05 pm
paulbaxter wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:54 pm
Unagi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:47 am
paulbaxter wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:24 pm I can't and won't comment on his politics
May I ask, why not ??
edit: sorry, I just now see that you’ve been asked and don’t want to comment further.
I guess I’m wondering if you are saying you can’t/won’t comment, to him, or to us here as well as to him.
I suppose I'm just treading a line between the fact that he's someone I know and like and I want him to do well in general on the one hand, and on the other I don't know about his political feelings, don't have any particular reason to think they would be the same as mine, and don't want to get involved in either defending him OR attacking him, if that makes sense. He's a great guy and I don't have any reason to think he has skeletons in his closet, so that's where I want to leave things for my part.
I don't mean this confrontationally, but it sounds like you are just want to keep liking him and are afraid to look under the covers. (perhaps that's exactly what you are saying too)

As others have stated (and I suspect you agree with, for the most part), people entering the GOP right now have really one of two (three?) agendas. To stand against what they saw for the last 4 years, and what happened on Jan 6th.... Or to get on board that movement (now that can be as an opportunist looking for power, or because their messaging actually speaks to their beliefs, etc.)

I guess I just feel if I knew and liked someone that made this move, I would very much want to know what his reasoning for joining the political sphere was... It should be quickly obvious if he was in the latter or former 2 agendas, and that would seem like a really easy way to decide if he is someone you actually want to 'do well'. I mean, I guess I am saying: you don't know what it is he wants to do - so I wouldn't be so fast to wish him well with it.
The campaign website language posted earlier is generally inconsistent with running some type of "redeem the GOP from Trump" type message, so hard to imagine that the guy isn't going to carry Trump's water if he does wind up in office.
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Unagi
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Re: Michigan

Post by Unagi »

heh, well there ya go. I'm afraid your friend should go suck an egg.
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LordMortis
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Re: Michigan

Post by LordMortis »

I don't know the guy but there are enough people, especially those who believe the Christ is the path to salvation, who are exceptionally good people but put more faith in faith than in science and believe in the core of what the GOP tell you they believe in. (smaller, less oppressive government that allow you to live your own life and leave it up to you to be good a Samaritan rather than enforcing it through government action, etc...) They stick to GOP despite all evidence that the GOP leadership do not believe Christ is the path to salvation.

That said, I can't see any GOP approved candidate for governor not allowing the legislature off the leash. So the GOP will work hard to get in someone with the most mass appeal. Someone, I'd probably find acceptable in a different timeline, who would seem like a choice better than Whitmer, given her hit and miss track record and PR bungles.

As mentioned above, right now I think that guy is likely to be Craig.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cra ... ice_chief)
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Re: Michigan

Post by Smoove_B »

paulbaxter wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:54 pm He's a great guy and I don't have any reason to think he has skeletons in his closet, so that's where I want to leave things for my part.
It's been a really weird ~15 months, seeing the people I thought I knew in a complete different way. I can't imagine a friend running for political office, but if I had one that did so as a (R), I'd likely feel insanely conflicted right now - mainly in trying to figure out what I'd missed or how I was going to deal with our friendship.

It's been difficult enough dealing with family members that are apparently still in the tank for Trump (!), but if someone I was close with actually decided to run for office with the idea of promoting a platform (instead of just having a set of garbage beliefs)? That's tough.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: Michigan

Post by paulbaxter »

Unagi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:05 pm
I don't mean this confrontationally, but it sounds like you just want to keep liking him and are afraid to look under the covers. (perhaps that's exactly what you are saying too)
No offense taken, and I think that about sums it up.
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Re: Michigan

Post by Holman »

I've known and liked many respectable and well-meaning people that I would do almost anything I could to prevent from achieving political power.
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Re: Michigan

Post by LordMortis »

In which my state will turn Red at the time where its politicians will decide to never let go irrespective of the voters will in the future.

Not her first nor even third bit of hypocrisy, form ignoring travel advisories, to masking, to gathering, to immunizing priorities. She makes herself an easy target for any reasonable sounding GOP challenger.

She is a prime example of why it's so very very hard to keep voting for the democrat to keep the GOP from going full blown autocracy and why the "well, you kinda have to vote for us because look at the alternative" is a horrible and losing strategy for the party on the left.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 234477001/
Lansing — Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer issued an apology Sunday after a photo emerged showing her at a restaurant with 12 other people gathered around tables pushed together in violation of her health department's current epidemic order.

The May 15 order from the state Department of Health and Human Services says no more than six people can be seated together and groups of patrons must be six feet apart. The conservative news outlet Breitbart first reported the photo Sunday.

"Throughout the pandemic, I’ve been committed to following public health protocols," Whitmer said Sunday in a statement. "Yesterday, I went with friends to a local restaurant. As more people arrived, the tables were pushed together. Because we were all vaccinated, we didn't stop to think about it.

"In retrospect, I should have thought about it. I am human. I made a mistake, and I apologize."
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Remus West
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Re: Michigan

Post by Remus West »

LordMortis wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 9:12 am In which my state will turn Red at the time where its politicians will decide to never let go irrespective of the voters will in the future.

Not her first nor even third bit of hypocrisy, form ignoring travel advisories, to masking, to gathering, to immunizing priorities. She makes herself an easy target for any reasonable sounding GOP challenger.

She is a prime example of why it's so very very hard to keep voting for the democrat to keep the GOP from going full blown autocracy and why the "well, you kinda have to vote for us because look at the alternative" is a horrible and losing strategy for the party on the left.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 234477001/
Lansing — Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer issued an apology Sunday after a photo emerged showing her at a restaurant with 12 other people gathered around tables pushed together in violation of her health department's current epidemic order.

The May 15 order from the state Department of Health and Human Services says no more than six people can be seated together and groups of patrons must be six feet apart. The conservative news outlet Breitbart first reported the photo Sunday.

"Throughout the pandemic, I’ve been committed to following public health protocols," Whitmer said Sunday in a statement. "Yesterday, I went with friends to a local restaurant. As more people arrived, the tables were pushed together. Because we were all vaccinated, we didn't stop to think about it.

"In retrospect, I should have thought about it. I am human. I made a mistake, and I apologize."
She let people sit with her at a restaurant. All of whom had been vaccinated. Equating this to the shit the right is pulling is why it is so hard for Democrats to succeed.
The Republicans attempt to overthrow Democracy but that witch from Michigan had dinner with her friends and visited her sick father. Damn her. :roll:
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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Re: Michigan

Post by malchior »

Remus West wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:39 pmShe let people sit with her at a restaurant. All of whom had been vaccinated. Equating this to the shit the right is pulling is why it is so hard for Democrats to succeed.
This isn't a hard thing to message but they show over and over that they are politically incompetent and unable to deflect even small issues. They have no armor at all.
The Republicans attempt to overthrow Democracy but that witch from Michigan had dinner with her friends and visited her sick father. Damn her. :roll:
The problem is that the GOP knows how to hang stupid harmless stuff on people. Or use it to get recall elections. They understand politics and the weakness in the system. And the Democrats simply can't hang even at the superficial level.
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Re: Michigan

Post by LordMortis »

Remus West wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:39 pm She let people sit with her at a restaurant. All of whom had been vaccinated.
But a week after the her order said not to do that sort of thing.
Equating this to the shit the right is pulling is why it is so hard for Democrats to succeed.
It's not equating it to what the right is doing. It's hypocrisy that opens the door both to apathy and resentment. She is openly sitting above the rules she projects and is the chief executive of enforcing. She's inviting a loss that will doom our state with these sorts of actions. it's not good for her of the democratic party.
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Re: Michigan

Post by El Guapo »

Health wise she did nothing wrong. As a matter of policy this kind of destroys the efficacy of the state health rules on this (to the extent that they were having an effect to begin with) because it highlights how the rules are proscribing conduct which is safe at this point if everyone is vaccinated. Which then reduces the point of the rules, which should be providing practical guidelines for safe conduct - then everyone is just left with whatever they think is safe, which is functionally the same as having no rules or guidance.

Politically it's stupid because she should know that she needs to follow her state health rules even if they are in some respects silly.

But yeah, also frustrating that the state GOP will be able to cynically make hay of this.
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Re: Michigan

Post by malchior »

LordMortis wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:48 pmIt's not equating it to what the right is doing. It's hypocrisy that opens the door both to apathy and resentment. She is openly sitting above the rules she projects and is the chief executive of enforcing. She's inviting a loss that will doom our state with these sorts of actions. it's not good for her of the democratic party.
Really? People in 2022...in 18 months are going to care that she and some friends pushed a couple of tables together? This is the type of political damage that is immediate and will diminish over time. I think it's impact is damage to public health rules following more than anything else.
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Re: Michigan

Post by LordMortis »

malchior wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:55 pm
LordMortis wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:48 pmIt's not equating it to what the right is doing. It's hypocrisy that opens the door both to apathy and resentment. She is openly sitting above the rules she projects and is the chief executive of enforcing. She's inviting a loss that will doom our state with these sorts of actions. it's not good for her of the democratic party.
Really? People in 2022...in 18 months are going to care that she and some friends pushed a couple of tables together? This is the type of political damage that is immediate and will diminish over time. I think it's impact is damage to public health rules following more than anything else.
People voting for governor in Michigan who are not dyed in blue in 2022 are going to remember the governor has a track record of projecting rules that do not apply to her and her buddies and her family. That will affect her ability to get re-elected and that memory will also rub off on other blue candidates for office. We're a purple state that is on the verge on turning red by act of legislative process that is currently being held in check by the state executive branch and this will be remembered and will continue to circulate.
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Remus West
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Re: Michigan

Post by Remus West »

LordMortis wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:07 pm
malchior wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:55 pm
LordMortis wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:48 pmIt's not equating it to what the right is doing. It's hypocrisy that opens the door both to apathy and resentment. She is openly sitting above the rules she projects and is the chief executive of enforcing. She's inviting a loss that will doom our state with these sorts of actions. it's not good for her of the democratic party.
Really? People in 2022...in 18 months are going to care that she and some friends pushed a couple of tables together? This is the type of political damage that is immediate and will diminish over time. I think it's impact is damage to public health rules following more than anything else.
People voting for governor in Michigan who are not dyed in blue in 2022 are going to remember the governor has a track record of projecting rules that do not apply to her and her buddies and her family. That will affect her ability to get re-elected and that memory will also rub off on other blue candidates for office. We're a purple state that is on the verge on turning red by act of legislative process that is currently being held in check by the state executive branch and this will be remembered and will continue to circulate.
So when you hear people talking about this simply remind them of the leader of the Michigan Republicans calling the Capitol riot a "hoax"
AP

Also remind them that as far as CDC concerns and advice go she has been consistently safe. If they want to do the things she is doing then they, and their friends, need to do ALL of them. Including getting the shot so that we can get ahead of this thing.
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Re: Michigan

Post by Jag »

Kraken wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:51 pm It hinges on his "Truth" and "election integrity" planks. If the Big Lie is his truth, then election integrity means voter suppression and he's in step with the authoritarians. The pro-police, anti-choice, tax cuts, and God quotes are just old-fashioned Republican orthodoxy.
Yeah. Pretty much agree with this. Although DeSantis was able to navigate the Trumpy waters without getting the sludge all over him even with the Palace in Exile in his own state.
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