2024 Fundraising - $1192 / $2000 CDN for the year, June/July Renewal. Paypal Donation Link US dollars
OBSOLETE -- [WW] Danger Zone! -- OBSOLETE
Moderator: Zaxxon
- Lassr
- Posts: 16884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:51 am
- Location: Rocket City (AL)
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
I also think we should stop here until Holman makes a decision on the game.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
Black Lives Matter
Black Lives Matter
- Grundbegriff
- Posts: 22277
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
- Location: http://baroquepotion.com
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
I say we scrap it and start over. Moliere shouldn't have spoken while dead; it was Holman's prerogative to manage the situation. Also, it was non-halal for triggercut to characterize his PM from Holman so specifically.
- Lassr
- Posts: 16884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:51 am
- Location: Rocket City (AL)
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Hey, if Holman does call the game, before he announces the roles, why not have a top 3 list to at least see who gets the closest?
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
Black Lives Matter
Black Lives Matter
- Lassr
- Posts: 16884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:51 am
- Location: Rocket City (AL)
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
I agree, plus I will let him start a new immediately instead of going into my BSG game. I loved his write-ups.Grundbegriff wrote:I say we scrap it and start over. Moliere shouldn't have spoken while dead; it was Holman's prerogative to manage the situation. Also, it was non-halal for triggercut to characterize his PM from Holman so specifically.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
Black Lives Matter
Black Lives Matter
- Vorret
- Posts: 9613
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 pm
- Location: Drummondville, QC
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Wow, odd turn of event, I can see why a mistake was made but I agree he shouldn't have said anything.
I'm fine with a restart or not , odds are we're not going to win
I'm fine with a restart or not , odds are we're not going to win
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
- stessier
- Posts: 29883
- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
- Location: SC
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
I didn't think there was anything wrong with Trig's characterization of the PM - all he said was that his was clear and unambiguous - which would have been true whatever his role.
It would be funny if you restart and Moilere ends up as Cheryl.
It would be funny if you restart and Moilere ends up as Cheryl.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running__ | __2014: 1300.55 miles__ | __2015: 2036.13 miles__ | __2016: 1012.75 miles__ | __2017: 1105.82 miles__ | __2018: 1318.91 miles | __2019: 2000.00 miles |
- triggercut
- Posts: 13807
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm
- Location: Man those Samoans are a surly bunch.
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Yeah, I absolutely didn't disclose anything in my characterization of my PM that seemed un-kosher to me. I figured we all probably got some PM worded roughly the same way telling us what team and what role or non-role we had. Seemed boilerplate to me.stessier wrote: I didn't think there was anything wrong with Trig's characterization of the PM - all he said was that his was clear and unambiguous - which would have been true whatever his role.
It would be funny if you restart and Moilere ends up as Cheryl.
I was very careful with how I described it and the language I used to describe it so that it didn't sound as if I was trying to spoof a PM either way.
Last edited by triggercut on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It's my manner, sir. It looks insubordinate, but it isn't, really."
- triggercut
- Posts: 13807
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm
- Location: Man those Samoans are a surly bunch.
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
1. bb2112Lassr wrote:Hey, if Holman does call the game, before he announces the roles, why not have a top 3 list to at least see who gets the closest?
2. Scoop
3. Remus
"It's my manner, sir. It looks insubordinate, but it isn't, really."
- Holman
- Posts: 29122
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Hi guys, I'm here. I was out most of the day doing errands, so I apologize for not commenting earlier. If you saw me listed as present on the board, it's because I had my browser parked here.
When I saw Moliere claiming Cheryl before my weekend trip, I assumed he was trying to draw out assassins. Only after I offered to spoil did I realize that he had mixed his first role with the later correction. I didn't even remember that he had first been Cheryl until it was too late.
So, while he mixed the roles, I feel responsible for the original Slack issue that caused a confusing reset. I also think a better moderator would have inquired earlier as to what Moliere was doing. I feel that I've botched things enough to be responsible.
I think it would be possible for people to continue from the present game state, but I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to. I also think it would suck unless it were unanimous.
What do people want to do? If it's a wrap, I can spoil the roles and my perspective and chalk it up to lessons learned. I think the game is moving towards an interesting final stage, although I can't say more without giving things away.
What would you like to do?
I'd definitely be up for a restart, but I would understand if people want to get on to the next theme.
When I saw Moliere claiming Cheryl before my weekend trip, I assumed he was trying to draw out assassins. Only after I offered to spoil did I realize that he had mixed his first role with the later correction. I didn't even remember that he had first been Cheryl until it was too late.
So, while he mixed the roles, I feel responsible for the original Slack issue that caused a confusing reset. I also think a better moderator would have inquired earlier as to what Moliere was doing. I feel that I've botched things enough to be responsible.
I think it would be possible for people to continue from the present game state, but I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to. I also think it would suck unless it were unanimous.
What do people want to do? If it's a wrap, I can spoil the roles and my perspective and chalk it up to lessons learned. I think the game is moving towards an interesting final stage, although I can't say more without giving things away.
What would you like to do?
I'd definitely be up for a restart, but I would understand if people want to get on to the next theme.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Holman
- Posts: 29122
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Incidentally, I wrote to Moliere and asked him whether he would like to comment on a role mix-up or let me do it, so he wasn't acting outside of the rules there.Grundbegriff wrote:I say we scrap it and start over. Moliere shouldn't have spoken while dead; it was Holman's prerogative to manage the situation. Also, it was non-halal for triggercut to characterize his PM from Holman so specifically.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41491
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Can I participate in this discussion even though I'm dead? FWIW I have not been spoiled on anything.
Black Lives Matter.
- Holman
- Posts: 29122
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
El Guapo has not been spoiled!
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- triggercut
- Posts: 13807
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm
- Location: Man those Samoans are a surly bunch.
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
I like the roles and setting.
I'd love a restart with entirely new roles.
I think that this game has been somewhat spoiled, but I also think it should be counted as an Assassin win. They played very well, and should be given credit for doing so.
So maybe not a "restart", since that implies no result in this game. Call it a rematch, same players, different roles, same setting.
Assassins win this one because they were well ahead and had lapped Isis on the track.
I'd love a restart with entirely new roles.
I think that this game has been somewhat spoiled, but I also think it should be counted as an Assassin win. They played very well, and should be given credit for doing so.
So maybe not a "restart", since that implies no result in this game. Call it a rematch, same players, different roles, same setting.
Assassins win this one because they were well ahead and had lapped Isis on the track.
"It's my manner, sir. It looks insubordinate, but it isn't, really."
- Unagi
- Posts: 26668
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Moliere wrote:This. I went from Cheryl to regular villager, but had it in my head that I was still Cheryl.Grundbegriff wrote:Since we had a first role assignment followed by a scratch and a reassignment, I think it's at least possible that Moliere was originally Cheryl and didn't grok that the roles had been remixed.
- Unagi
- Posts: 26668
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Yeah,Scoop20906 wrote:Ok, well, now we know.
Is it in the game bounds for someone to pull a "Moliere" and still have that be part of the game. I mean, Moliere should not even be able to announce this information since the mistake was entirely his and he was dead. UGH....
Ugh
- Lassr
- Posts: 16884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:51 am
- Location: Rocket City (AL)
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
I vote restart.
Plus before you spoil let us guess the bad team.
When the morning broke I thought it was Triggercut, RMC and Remus but now I think RMC, Remus and Grund
Plus before you spoil let us guess the bad team.
When the morning broke I thought it was Triggercut, RMC and Remus but now I think RMC, Remus and Grund
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
Black Lives Matter
Black Lives Matter
- Holman
- Posts: 29122
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
I am happy to restart if folks want. I've had fun so far.
I'll wait for more feedback, but in the meantime, does anyone have any complaints or suggestions about the rules/roles?
I'll wait for more feedback, but in the meantime, does anyone have any complaints or suggestions about the rules/roles?
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Unagi
- Posts: 26668
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
- Location: Chicago
- Newcastle
- Posts: 10132
- Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:22 am
- Location: reading over a shoulder near you
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Bayraktar!!!!
Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
- Newcastle
- Posts: 10132
- Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:22 am
- Location: reading over a shoulder near you
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
if there is a restart; please add time limits, so that way day 1 doesn't become such a grinding monotonous newcastle spam of posts
Bayraktar!!!!
Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
- Unagi
- Posts: 26668
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
There are 2 potential missed lynches in the current rules. (that is an Enormous gain for the wolves really)
With the 3rd assassin, the seer scans are only half effective...
So, IMO I think the rules have some mild imbalances.
Just IMO, of course, but I thought this was going to be a wolf win because of those two things..
I will also mention that I think you are playing with fire giving Everyone a named-role.
(I know you've asked that everyone keeps quiet on their name, but you see how well we pay attention)
With the 3rd assassin, the seer scans are only half effective...
So, IMO I think the rules have some mild imbalances.
Just IMO, of course, but I thought this was going to be a wolf win because of those two things..
I will also mention that I think you are playing with fire giving Everyone a named-role.
(I know you've asked that everyone keeps quiet on their name, but you see how well we pay attention)
- RMC
- Posts: 6748
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:49 pm
- Location: Elyria, Ohio
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
A restart is fine with me. I love the write ups and I think that everything is perfect.
Really a good(nay, GREAT) overall first game for you Holman, I have no complaints about anything that you did.
The reveal gives everyone some hiding, and or proof of whom they are, and things play out differently if roles did not get mixed up.
And I say El Guapo is okay to contribute, but he has to use yittish and legalese in all his sentences.
Really a good(nay, GREAT) overall first game for you Holman, I have no complaints about anything that you did.
The reveal gives everyone some hiding, and or proof of whom they are, and things play out differently if roles did not get mixed up.
And I say El Guapo is okay to contribute, but he has to use yittish and legalese in all his sentences.
Difficulties mastered are opportunities won. - Winston Churchill
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41491
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
FWIW I think it would be fine to keep going, but that doesn't appear to be the majority sentiment. I would certainly be fine with restarting, seeing as how I would then become alive again.
My guesses (at the start of the day) when I found out that I was dead were: (1) Grund or Trig, but not both; (2) Vorret; and (3) RMC or Lassr. With the information from Trig, though, I guess I would go with Grund, Vorret, and RMC.
My guesses (at the start of the day) when I found out that I was dead were: (1) Grund or Trig, but not both; (2) Vorret; and (3) RMC or Lassr. With the information from Trig, though, I guess I would go with Grund, Vorret, and RMC.
Black Lives Matter.
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41491
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Yittish?RMC wrote:
And I say El Guapo is okay to contribute, but he has to use yittish and legalese in all his sentences.
Black Lives Matter.
- Lassr
- Posts: 16884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:51 am
- Location: Rocket City (AL)
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
I think the game is too tainted now; With the dead contributing thoughts. We could play but it would be a victory with an asterisk...
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
Black Lives Matter
Black Lives Matter
- Holman
- Posts: 29122
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
We can't continue this game without unanimity, so it's either a restart or moving on to the BSG game I think folks were waiting for.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41491
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm fine with either restarting this or doing BSG.
Black Lives Matter.
- RMC
- Posts: 6748
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:49 pm
- Location: Elyria, Ohio
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
It sounded funny in my head. And I like the word tchotchke, which I think is yiddish.. Okay, it is double DD and not TT.El Guapo wrote:Yittish?RMC wrote:
And I say El Guapo is okay to contribute, but he has to use yittish and legalese in all his sentences.
Difficulties mastered are opportunities won. - Winston Churchill
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
- RMC
- Posts: 6748
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:49 pm
- Location: Elyria, Ohio
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
I would go with Scoop, wolf1, and wolf2
And I am wrong on at least one of those...
Because as Scoop would say, I am the devil.
And I am wrong on at least one of those...
Because as Scoop would say, I am the devil.
Difficulties mastered are opportunities won. - Winston Churchill
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
- Lassr
- Posts: 16884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:51 am
- Location: Rocket City (AL)
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
I'd like you to do this again if you have time. Archer is a perfect setting for these games.Holman wrote:We can't continue this game without unanimity, so it's either a restart or moving on to the BSG game I think folks were waiting for.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
Black Lives Matter
Black Lives Matter
- El Guapo
- Posts: 41491
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Oy!RMC wrote:It sounded funny in my head. And I like the word tchotchke, which I think is yiddish.. Okay, it is double DD and not TT.El Guapo wrote:Yittish?RMC wrote:
And I say El Guapo is okay to contribute, but he has to use yittish and legalese in all his sentences.
Black Lives Matter.
- Chaosraven
- Posts: 20235
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:26 am
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
would play in a restart, would shut up and continue to be dead and watch
"Where are you off to?"
"I don't know," Snufkin replied.
The door shut again and Snufkin entered his forest, with a hundred miles of silence ahead of him.
Sweet sweet meat come. -LordMortis
"I don't know," Snufkin replied.
The door shut again and Snufkin entered his forest, with a hundred miles of silence ahead of him.
Sweet sweet meat come. -LordMortis
- Grundbegriff
- Posts: 22277
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
- Location: http://baroquepotion.com
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
In that case, I'm fine with continuing!Holman wrote:Incidentally, I wrote to Moliere and asked him whether he would like to comment on a role mix-up or let me do it, so he wasn't acting outside of the rules there.Grundbegriff wrote:I say we scrap it and start over. Moliere shouldn't have spoken while dead; it was Holman's prerogative to manage the situation. Also, it was non-halal for triggercut to characterize his PM from Holman so specifically.
- triggercut
- Posts: 13807
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm
- Location: Man those Samoans are a surly bunch.
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Hey, me too!Grundbegriff wrote:In that case, I'm fine with continuing!Holman wrote:Incidentally, I wrote to Moliere and asked him whether he would like to comment on a role mix-up or let me do it, so he wasn't acting outside of the rules there.Grundbegriff wrote:I say we scrap it and start over. Moliere shouldn't have spoken while dead; it was Holman's prerogative to manage the situation. Also, it was non-halal for triggercut to characterize his PM from Holman so specifically.
RMC
"It's my manner, sir. It looks insubordinate, but it isn't, really."
- Grundbegriff
- Posts: 22277
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
- Location: http://baroquepotion.com
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Or anything, really. Whatever seems meet.
My guess: Scoop, Vorret, bb2112
My guess: Scoop, Vorret, bb2112
- Grundbegriff
- Posts: 22277
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
- Location: http://baroquepotion.com
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
This is the part that seemed hinky to me-- a shade too meta-- but I can see and grant your point. Chalk it up to... phrasing.triggercut wrote: I also have gone back to re-read the PM(s) I got at the game start. Did I misread? No, there it is. Noontime revision. Cheryl Tunt. Isis Special.
- triggercut
- Posts: 13807
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm
- Location: Man those Samoans are a surly bunch.
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
I can see that.Grundbegriff wrote:This is the part that seemed hinky to me-- a shade too meta-- but I can see and grant your point. Chalk it up to... phrasing.triggercut wrote: I also have gone back to re-read the PM(s) I got at the game start. Did I misread? No, there it is. Noontime revision. Cheryl Tunt. Isis Special.
FWIW, I originally used other words besides "noontime" and "revision" when I was typing the post, but at the time thought I'd be fighting a sure lynching of myself for claiming to be Cheryl and thought, "Someone's going to point out that the phrasing," (there it is AGAIN!) "In trig's post doesn't match the PMs at all..."
I was in such bafflement at the time, I'm afraid I decided to choose the hard place rather than the rock.
"It's my manner, sir. It looks insubordinate, but it isn't, really."
- Grundbegriff
- Posts: 22277
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
- Location: http://baroquepotion.com
- Contact:
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
FWIW, I was willing to vouch for you today.
- Holman
- Posts: 29122
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Anyone else have a guess at the assassins?
I'll leak the roles whenever you like.
I'll leak the roles whenever you like.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- bb2112
- End of Days
- Posts: 5480
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:10 pm
- Location: Knowledge! It is almost as important as money, luck, and family connections.
Re: [WW] Danger Zone! (Archer) -- Day 3
Interesting. We had a Cheryl and a Cheryl imposter. I was convinced Trig was a bad guy, but due to Moliere's mistake the game takes a whole new angle. Trig is confirmed as Cheryl, the bad guys did not get a role last night, I would assume, and the game is totally upside down.
I will go with the majority on either keep playing or to try this again with better reading comprehension.
Before Moliere's come back from the dead declaration my top three were:
Trig
Scoop
RMC (depending on the reveal I might have switched to Lassr as my third, but RMC would have to been pretty believable)
This would have lost us the game as I would have been hammering at Trig like there is no tomorrow (and there probably wouldn't have been).
Now it would have to be:
Scoop
RMC (see above)
Lassr (didn't like his last vote on Moliere. The village should not have pulled that trigger.)
Still would like RMC TO REVEAL.
And if Malory is still alive, I would still like to hear from her please.
I will go with the majority on either keep playing or to try this again with better reading comprehension.
Before Moliere's come back from the dead declaration my top three were:
Trig
Scoop
RMC (depending on the reveal I might have switched to Lassr as my third, but RMC would have to been pretty believable)
This would have lost us the game as I would have been hammering at Trig like there is no tomorrow (and there probably wouldn't have been).
Now it would have to be:
Scoop
RMC (see above)
Lassr (didn't like his last vote on Moliere. The village should not have pulled that trigger.)
Still would like RMC TO REVEAL.
And if Malory is still alive, I would still like to hear from her please.
That's no reason to cry. One cries because one is sad. For example, I cry because others are stupid, and that makes me sad.
Why would I stab an Oracle? Wait, what am I saying? Why wouldn't I stab an Oracle? - Belkar Bitterleaf
BCY4920 - You can suck it Johnny Angel.
Why would I stab an Oracle? Wait, what am I saying? Why wouldn't I stab an Oracle? - Belkar Bitterleaf
BCY4920 - You can suck it Johnny Angel.