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Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
If by burning down businesses that employ people in their neighborhood, then, yeah, that's justice. The whole thing is sad and senseless. I've seen people online complaining that the police are guarding the home of the police officer who killed Floyd. Do they think a lynching would be more appropriate? I thought we were trying our best, even if imperfectly, to be a nation of laws. They guy deserves whatever penalty the law imposes on him but all of this is going to accomplish very little. And it's already given Trump an excuse to fire up his base with "law and order" tweets.Lawlessness is lawlessness. Anarchy is anarchy is anarchy. Neither race nor color nor frustration is an excuse for either lawlessness or anarchy - Thurgood Marshall
It isn't that the police are guarding the home. There was a *battalion* of police guarding the home he probably wasn't at. There is a video out there. It was an absurd show of force. The outrage is at the police protecting a man who murdered a man much, much more than the community that man injured. In other words they sided with a murderer. It completely reinforced the 'blue gang with badges' narrative.Grifman wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:48 amIf by burning down businesses that employ people in their neighborhood, then, yeah, that's justice. The whole thing is sad and senseless. I've seen people online complaining that the police are guarding the home of the police officer who killed Floyd. Do they think a lynching would be more appropriate?Lawlessness is lawlessness. Anarchy is anarchy is anarchy. Neither race nor color nor frustration is an excuse for either lawlessness or anarchy - Thurgood Marshall
Totally but this nation and this city in particular were tinderboxes after years and years of this pattern. This is like Ferguson again as others said except worse. They've had a number of race incidents.I thought we were trying our best, even if imperfectly, to be a nation of laws. They guy deserves whatever penalty the law imposes on him but all of this is going to accomplish very little. And it's already given Trump an excuse to fire up his base with "law and order" tweets.
Unfortunately one of the root causes is that the system is based on race violence. It has been...well forever in this nation. Sure there are bad cops and probably always have been. The system still prioritizes protecting the oppressors *even when they commit obvious crimes in plain daylight*. It also prioritizes property over black lives as this piece contextualizes - from a viewpoint of someone who has walked miles in this system that many of us haven't. The system is the problem. Several good posts up thread show examples of how bad cops are papered over in this nation over and over. National, state, and local police strategy propagates this problem from top to bottom. It is almost ingrained culturally into the forces. Some like the LAPD learned from their riots and improved though probably not enough. And others like the NYPD seem to be constantly devolving.All that said, it's quite clear that there are far too many bad cops out there, and too many poorly trained cops. I get it, being a cop isn't easy, and they deal with a lot of pretty crappy people doing bad things. I will also note that the fact that there are too many guns out there doesn't make it any easier - the police never know when someone might be armed or not, so that naturally makes them nervous. But if they can't handle that, they shouldn't take the job. But there needs to be a better effort to weed out the bad ones, either before they get hired or afterwards. And they need more training in non-violently resolving confrontations. Somewhere along the way, "To protect and serve" has gotten pushed to the rear.
I agree and we happen to have the worst President in American history at the helm and he tonight just flicked a match onto the tinderbox. It wasn't just 'law and order' tweets. They included some that were inappropriate and *racist*. Twitter actually slapped a warning on the damn tweet below that indicates they would normally delete it. It will be amazing in a terrible way to watch the fireworks there. This human shaped pile of shit is going to get us 1967 with coronavirus on top. And the worst part is he probably *wants that*.I don't know what the answer is, but I am saddened that we seem to go through this cycle over and over again, and yet nothing really even changes. After every "disturbance", promises of changes and reform are made, it's gets the attention of politicians for a while, and yet despite it all, a few years go by and it happens again.
Exactly. I'm shaking with rage. I'm totally at fuck the police levels. Arresting a black reporter on the air while he is offering reasonably to move? There is no reason for this other than a show of force.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 7:23 am I don't know, maybe not. Sometimes I just can't believe how low some will stoop.
For sure, between the prosecutors idiotic remarks last night, the Trump tweets, and the shit we are seeing this morning. This is full on out of control authoritarian shit hole activity. I can't help but feel a big, big fight coming on.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 7:25 am It's looking more and more like this is an attempt to kick off some kind of race war.
Higher pay, higher respect, higher training, higher community involvement, higher standards, more of them to spread the burden of this kind of civil service. They become community sponsors "protecting and serving" as much they are enforcing.
This is not a money issue. This is the way the system works deep in its bones. We need radical, systemic reform to have a chance out of this. And that is impossible considering our politics. This business is going to get out of control.LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 7:30 amHigher pay, higher respect, higher training, higher community involvement, higher standards, more of them to spread the burden of this kind of civil service. They become community sponsors "protecting and serving" as much they are enforcing.
Alas, taxation is theft! so I don't see it happening.
Without money, you can't expect change. This is like saying the growing teaching crisis is not a money issue. With teaching you expect the love of children and the future to make up for wages. For local law enforcement, it's the love of unchecked power. Training = money. Not being overworked = money. Worry about your kids future while you worry about own safety = money. Having enough police to community civil servants = money.malchior wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 7:32 amThis is not a money issue. This is the way the system works deep in its bones. We need radical, systemic reform to have a chance out of this. And that is impossible considering our politics. This business is going to get out of control.LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 7:30 amHigher pay, higher respect, higher training, higher community involvement, higher standards, more of them to spread the burden of this kind of civil service. They become community sponsors "protecting and serving" as much they are enforcing.
Alas, taxation is theft! so I don't see it happening.
Prepare for the world where it’s not a hoax.LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 7:21 am
For the love of all that is good left in this world please tell me this ends up a hoax and is exposed as such before it all burns to the ground, even knowing full well as it being hoax would fan the flames of righteousness on the right.
We can throw billions at it. In fact we have. We dump military equipment on the police. We can give them bundles of money. The Federal government gives them grants. Money is not the root cause of the issue. It is far deeper. The legal system has built nearly impossible walls against police accountability. Juries won't convict officers. Pouring money in would just stabilize or worsen the existing system.LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 7:37 amWithout money, you can't expect change. This is like saying the growing teaching crisis is not a money issue. With teaching you expect the love of children and the future to make up for wages. For local law enforcement, it's the love of unchecked power. Training = money. Not being overworked = money. Worry about your kids future while you worry about own safety = money. Having enough police to community civil servants = money.malchior wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 7:32 amThis is not a money issue. This is the way the system works deep in its bones. We need radical, systemic reform to have a chance out of this. And that is impossible considering our politics. This business is going to get out of control.LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 7:30 amHigher pay, higher respect, higher training, higher community involvement, higher standards, more of them to spread the burden of this kind of civil service. They become community sponsors "protecting and serving" as much they are enforcing.
Alas, taxation is theft! so I don't see it happening.
They would like to think the lines will be drawn on skin color.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 7:25 am It's looking more and more like this is an attempt to kick off some kind of race war.
This Tweet violated the Twitter Rules about glorifying violence. However, Twitter has determined that it may be in the public’s interest for the Tweet to remain accessible.
I'm on board. As long as it also applies to the public trust, federal coffers, and national natural resources.
For me, I'm good as long as the top of the list is Corporate looters and corrupt Senators.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:42 amI'm on board. As long as it also applies to the public trust, federal coffers, and national natural resources.
They can't in illinois. Have to get a FOID first. 60-120 day wait, if your record is clean. Can't in NY, can't in California. Can't in NJ. And that's just "regular" guns. The big scary ones are illegal in Chicago, NYC, Cal, etc.Unagi wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:46 am Honestly. Right now, across all of America , Every single Adult black man and woman should go out right now and Legally purchase a gun. A big one, designed to mow down people.
Not to use in the coming race war, but to totally shut down the NRA.
You wanna see some reasonable gun control put into law, Let that happen and watch the NRA fall in a day.