Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune [movie] Dune 2021
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- Jaymon
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
The way the Fremen should look would be really weird. The desert Fremen, they live underground, and don't go in the sun without their stillsuits, which cover everything except for face and hands. And its been this way for a long time, thousand years or more. So they should actually be somewhat pasty in appearance, except for fiercely dark faces and hands.
Although Atreides is supposed to be descended from Greek, their descriptions are more in keeping with Asian type of folks.
I read a book once that said something like due to interbreeding, in the future all of humanity will be the color of coffee with 2 creams, which seems pretty logical to me.
But in the Frank Herbert view of the future different groups of people went and settled entire planets with like minded folks, resulting in pockets across the universe. eventually this changed into the laandsrad, the great house system. And then, those houses didn't "cross pollinate" with each other too much, which for some houses meant not a lot of diversity going on. True some of the pockets and houses started in a diverse faction, and those eventually became very blended in appearance, but others are not, and they are proud to stay that way.
But of course, none of that matters for movie casting.
Although Atreides is supposed to be descended from Greek, their descriptions are more in keeping with Asian type of folks.
I read a book once that said something like due to interbreeding, in the future all of humanity will be the color of coffee with 2 creams, which seems pretty logical to me.
But in the Frank Herbert view of the future different groups of people went and settled entire planets with like minded folks, resulting in pockets across the universe. eventually this changed into the laandsrad, the great house system. And then, those houses didn't "cross pollinate" with each other too much, which for some houses meant not a lot of diversity going on. True some of the pockets and houses started in a diverse faction, and those eventually became very blended in appearance, but others are not, and they are proud to stay that way.
But of course, none of that matters for movie casting.
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- Holman
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Actually there is someone listed as "Hawat Specialist," but he's down below "Sardaukar Soldier" and "Worm Polisher." I assume this character is just an assistant.
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- Holman
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Yeah, Herbert didn't account for the fact that pretty much every group interbreeds with every other group given enough time, and culture changes even faster. 40,000 years is a long time, but Herbert models even individual noble houses on very specific 19th/20th-century tropes.Jaymon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:27 am The way the Fremen should look would be really weird. The desert Fremen, they live underground, and don't go in the sun without their stillsuits, which cover everything except for face and hands. And its been this way for a long time, thousand years or more. So they should actually be somewhat pasty in appearance, except for fiercely dark faces and hands.
Still, if the Fremen ancestors (the Zensunni Wanderers) were almost all desert people, today's Fremen (barring much out-breeding) would still look like desert people even if they'd lived generations on an ice planet. Natural selection (or at least the kind that caused early human populations in northern latitudes to become pale) goes by the wayside once you have enough of social order to offset it.
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- Lagom Lite
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
So there's been a rumor lately that the character of Liet Kynes, the Imperial Planetologist who was himself the son of a Fremen woman and the previous Planetologist, who is trying to terraform parts of Dune and who is killed by the Harkonnen by being undressed and sent into the desert to die, is going to be gender swapped and played by Sharon Duncan Brewster in the upcoming 2020 Dune adaptation.
Many fanbois and anti-SJWs are apparently upset about this, because to them it's somehow important what's under this character's robes. I'm not, and I'll explain why:
Firstly, the scene where Liet Kynes is forced by the Harkonnen to strip and walk into the desert is quite disturbing if it is a black woman subjected to this. Given the many other disturbing and controversial elements of the novel (in this case, the Harkonnen culture of cruelty and social darwinism) it would give an already dark scene even more brutality.
Secondly, it gives the writers opportunity to make Chani the daughter of Kynes and Stilgar or something similiar. It's an ancient trick in drama (literally, goes back to Greek tragedies) to make everyone family as it gives the actors more to work with (remember Empire Strikes Back? Darth Vader and Leia wasn't supposed to be related to Luke in the first film). Like, why does Stilgar defer to Paul so readily in the novel, other than being hella impressed by Paul's capabilities? If Paul becomes Stilgar's son-in-law it gives more gravitas to the character of Stilgar. It also plays into a central theme of the novel (genealogy, nobility and power through blood relations).
Thirdly… it just sounds like the kind of whining we heard from Tolkien fans when they cut Tom Bombadil from the LotR movies, or conflated Arwen with Haldir (or was it Lindir? Whatever, some random Elf whose only function in the novel was to meet up with Aragorn and Frodo on the way to Rivendell as they flee the Ringwraiths. In the movies, this was done by Arwen). The thing is, movie adaptations have to focus on fewer characters and make their stories deeper. Novels can have lots of characters because a book takes many hours to read, we can pause and reflect. Dramatics must have drive and full engagement to work properly. A film adaptation can never replace a novel - but it can hope to capture the themes, and intensify the struggles of a few central characters. It's a balance writers have to have between being true to the source material and making a two hour movie that works as a piece of drama.
Many fanbois and anti-SJWs are apparently upset about this, because to them it's somehow important what's under this character's robes. I'm not, and I'll explain why:
Firstly, the scene where Liet Kynes is forced by the Harkonnen to strip and walk into the desert is quite disturbing if it is a black woman subjected to this. Given the many other disturbing and controversial elements of the novel (in this case, the Harkonnen culture of cruelty and social darwinism) it would give an already dark scene even more brutality.
Secondly, it gives the writers opportunity to make Chani the daughter of Kynes and Stilgar or something similiar. It's an ancient trick in drama (literally, goes back to Greek tragedies) to make everyone family as it gives the actors more to work with (remember Empire Strikes Back? Darth Vader and Leia wasn't supposed to be related to Luke in the first film). Like, why does Stilgar defer to Paul so readily in the novel, other than being hella impressed by Paul's capabilities? If Paul becomes Stilgar's son-in-law it gives more gravitas to the character of Stilgar. It also plays into a central theme of the novel (genealogy, nobility and power through blood relations).
Thirdly… it just sounds like the kind of whining we heard from Tolkien fans when they cut Tom Bombadil from the LotR movies, or conflated Arwen with Haldir (or was it Lindir? Whatever, some random Elf whose only function in the novel was to meet up with Aragorn and Frodo on the way to Rivendell as they flee the Ringwraiths. In the movies, this was done by Arwen). The thing is, movie adaptations have to focus on fewer characters and make their stories deeper. Novels can have lots of characters because a book takes many hours to read, we can pause and reflect. Dramatics must have drive and full engagement to work properly. A film adaptation can never replace a novel - but it can hope to capture the themes, and intensify the struggles of a few central characters. It's a balance writers have to have between being true to the source material and making a two hour movie that works as a piece of drama.
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- Holman
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
I think it's a great idea, and for the reasons you listed.Lagom Lite wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:51 am So there's been a rumor lately that the character of Liet Kynes, the Imperial Planetologist who was himself the son of a Fremen woman and the previous Planetologist, who is trying to terraform parts of Dune and who is killed by the Harkonnen by being undressed and sent into the desert to die, is going to be gender swapped and played by Sharon Duncan Brewster in the upcoming 2020 Dune adaptation.
Herbert had a huge Jungian blindspot to female characters (literally all of whom are witches or wives). Making Kynes a woman changes nothing in the plot, but it adds dimension to the possibilities for female agency in this world. There's no downside.
Also, if I'm not wrong, I believe Thufir Hawat is being played by a black actor. Another would help take the edge off complaints that this is an overwhelmingly white cast for a supposedly far-future, changed humanity.
That's the first I've heard of that complaint!Thirdly… it just sounds like the kind of whining we heard from Tolkien fans when they cut Tom Bombadil from the LotR movies,
Glorfindel.or conflated Arwen with Haldir (or was it Lindir? Whatever, some random Elf whose only function in the novel was to meet up with Aragorn and Frodo on the way to Rivendell as they flee the Ringwraiths. In the movies, this was done by Arwen).
They also cut Gildor.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Me too. I absolutely hated Tom Bombadil in the book. He didn't fit in the story and he certainly wouldn't have fit in the movies.
As for changing characters, I don't care at all about an actor's race. That changes nothing. Gender though, that's something I have to think about. My kneejerk reaction is to not make changes of that magnitude as it goes against Herbert's story. But I'll remain open minded about it.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?
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- Holman
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
I actually kind of love Bombadil in the book because I think that whole episode is a place where you can see Tolkien's purposes very clearly. Goodness in Middle-earth is in part an effect of harmony with the natural world. I agree it all feels weird and clunky, but that's part of the charm.
I'm also surprised it wasn't all edited out. The LOTR story turns darker and darker in ways that make Bombadil seem to belong to a different book (maybe in tone just a short sequel to The Hobbit). But I don't believe Tolkien had very much in the way of an editor pushing back on anything he wrote, and it's well-known that he didn't really know the ending at the beginning.
In any case, there was definitely no need (or time) for Tom B in the movies.
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- LordMortis
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Didn't they just kind of merge (and throw out of place) Tom Bombadil, and Treebeard into one character dumping the Old Forrest (which I always thought was Mirkwood, but isn't) into Fangorn Forrest? I was all for it. (Even I thought I thought the slooooow... to "These were my friends, WAR!!!" was not a very treebeardy thing that I look past)McNutt wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:36 amMe too. I absolutely hated Tom Bombadil in the book. He didn't fit in the story and he certainly wouldn't have fit in the movies.
As for changing characters, I don't care at all about an actor's race. That changes nothing. Gender though, that's something I have to think about. My kneejerk reaction is to not make changes of that magnitude as it goes against Herbert's story. But I'll remain open minded about it.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
I still think Duncan Idaho should have been played by Donald Glover.
Maybe Villeneuve misheard me and cast Danny Glover as Thufir?
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Per IMDB, Thufir is Stephen McKinley Henderson, better known for stage than screen.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Per various SF folks on Twitter:
There's now a release date of December 18, 2020.
The first trailer is said to be "soon."
There's now a release date of December 18, 2020.
The first trailer is said to be "soon."
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Well, that's a big departure from Lynch's Dune then, this guy's eyebrows are barely visible!
I'm not sure this Villeneuve fellow knows what he's doing.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
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- Jaymon
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Having read copious amounts of classic scifi, and read the dune series many many times, I see no downsides to gender swapping Liet Kynes. Most of sci-fi golden/silver age characters are white males, so any modern telling will need to gender swap and race swap, and I see that as a positive change.
I don't know if there really needs to be any additional familial relationships to bring the characters together, but I am not a big fancy movie director. As for Lord of the Rings, I thought the expanded role of Liv Tyler made the movie worse. It was good, except for her parts, we didn't really need a love sick elf maiden whispering all over the film. As for Tom Bombadil, he was a like a holiday special side quest, I am glad he was left out of the films.
I don't know if there really needs to be any additional familial relationships to bring the characters together, but I am not a big fancy movie director. As for Lord of the Rings, I thought the expanded role of Liv Tyler made the movie worse. It was good, except for her parts, we didn't really need a love sick elf maiden whispering all over the film. As for Tom Bombadil, he was a like a holiday special side quest, I am glad he was left out of the films.
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- Jaymon
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Oh, I am still super excited for this, like oh my goodness.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
I look forward to watching Superset Union Intersection Subset.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
It’s just one pic, but very evocative: Caladan as antithesis of Arrakis.
More coming tomorrow, apparently.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
I also just saw that DV is still planning on a December release with no C-19 delay.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
He won. Period.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
I am hyped. Growing up, DUNE (books 1-4 anyway) was the first world I fell into as hard as I did Middle-earth.
These shots look pretty perfect.
Source also states that Liet-Kynes is Sharon Duncan-Brewster (in stillsuit below Josh Brolin's Gurney Halleck), confirming the gender swap.
These shots look pretty perfect.
Source also states that Liet-Kynes is Sharon Duncan-Brewster (in stillsuit below Josh Brolin's Gurney Halleck), confirming the gender swap.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
ok, I am excited. dammit. I was hoping to stay nonplussed until release. Not get my hopes up.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
I got into some arguments with some grumps on a movie related message board I visit who either a) hate the visuals, b) thinks about 5 people want to see Dune remade and hope it fails, and c) have no idea what is possibly going on in those pictures (one guy thought Duke Leto's armor was a stillsuit - he then went off on me for daring to bring up the Vanity Fair article in which those were published!).
Ugh.
Still, I can't wait to see this movie.
Ugh.
Still, I can't wait to see this movie.
Hodor.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Lagom Lite
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Augusti 21st came and went. Man, I'm itching for this trailer. I want to see - and hear - what kind of tone and feeling they've decided on for this adaptation.
Rumor has it the trailer will come next week, and will feature among other things a "demonic" Baron Harkonnen. Hans Zimmer's score is compared to the scores for Interstellar and Gladiator.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
I cant believe its been 20 years since Gladiator.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
As long as he's not as cartoonish as Lynch's portrayal. I used to wonder why directors thought buffoons had the wherewithal to become supervillians. Then Trump came along...Lagom Lite wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:45 pm and will feature among other things a "demonic" Baron Harkonnen
Black Lives Matter
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
I managed to get a look at the leaked teaser trailer for the official trailer (marketing these days ).
It looks - and sounds - great! It mostly showcases the talent, like a second or so for every major actor.
The teaser revolves around the gom jabbar test ("The test is simple. Remove the hand from the box, and you die." (lunges forward to put a posion pin against Paul's neck) "What's in the box." "Pain."). Tim Chalamet looks perfect. Regal, but a teenager. Old soul, young body. Charlotte Rampling sounds almost exactly like Sian Phillips from Lynch-Dune (a good thing IMO).
Then the desert, and ornithopter (which looks and sounds like a buzzing insect, again perfect imo), and then basically a cast gallery with Momoa/Duncan at the end. Mohiam asks Paul, "What will you do?" and we then see Fremen walking past Paul, some placing a hand on his shoulder as they pass (after Jamis' funeral? when Paul gave water to the dead? Paul being accepted into the Fremen?). Then we see the logo and hear some music proper.
The lighting sort of pulses at times, like shocks of pain, throughout the entire teaser. We hear Paul breathing heavily and screams one time.
The Harkonnen looks pale and hairless, albino-like. We get a good look at Rabban in the desert with a shaken (or aroused? Rabban is a sadist) expression. His armor has a dirty gold and jade look. The Baron ascends from a black sludge with a pained expression (maybe decontamination after Leto/Yueh's poison tooth attack?).
The music is like droning, almost-arabesque synths mixed with tribal, high-pitched drums. It sounds like a combination between middle-eastern influences and 80's science fiction. Epic and sweeping, but immediate and dramatic as well because of the drums. I like where they're going with it.
It looks - and sounds - great! It mostly showcases the talent, like a second or so for every major actor.
The teaser revolves around the gom jabbar test ("The test is simple. Remove the hand from the box, and you die." (lunges forward to put a posion pin against Paul's neck) "What's in the box." "Pain."). Tim Chalamet looks perfect. Regal, but a teenager. Old soul, young body. Charlotte Rampling sounds almost exactly like Sian Phillips from Lynch-Dune (a good thing IMO).
Then the desert, and ornithopter (which looks and sounds like a buzzing insect, again perfect imo), and then basically a cast gallery with Momoa/Duncan at the end. Mohiam asks Paul, "What will you do?" and we then see Fremen walking past Paul, some placing a hand on his shoulder as they pass (after Jamis' funeral? when Paul gave water to the dead? Paul being accepted into the Fremen?). Then we see the logo and hear some music proper.
The lighting sort of pulses at times, like shocks of pain, throughout the entire teaser. We hear Paul breathing heavily and screams one time.
The Harkonnen looks pale and hairless, albino-like. We get a good look at Rabban in the desert with a shaken (or aroused? Rabban is a sadist) expression. His armor has a dirty gold and jade look. The Baron ascends from a black sludge with a pained expression (maybe decontamination after Leto/Yueh's poison tooth attack?).
The music is like droning, almost-arabesque synths mixed with tribal, high-pitched drums. It sounds like a combination between middle-eastern influences and 80's science fiction. Epic and sweeping, but immediate and dramatic as well because of the drums. I like where they're going with it.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?
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Is there anyone in hell?
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Looks like the three-minute official trailer drops today at noon EST.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Its a shame all this is during the COVID crap. Coulda been a huge hit. As is a niche movie based on overthinking books isn't likely to get a huge audience payback.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
They can't all be Dumb and Dumberer, can they.
He won. Period.
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Best YouTube comment:
"What's in the box?"
"2020."
"What's in the box?"
"2020."
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
Looks fantastic.
Although I miss the Minecraft personal shields from Lynch's Dune.
Although I miss the Minecraft personal shields from Lynch's Dune.
He won. Period.
- LordMortis
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Re: Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune
I like they preview, except for Pink Floyd cover.[Brad Pitt]"What's in the box?"[/Brad Pitt]
"2020."
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