Missouri Statute
571.030. 1. (4)
“A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly: (4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner.”
Racism in America (with data)
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- Isgrimnur
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
It's almost as if people are the problem.
- LawBeefaroni
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
UUW brandishing.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Very few had the Nazis actively waving their guns at people who posed no threat to them; none as far as I can recall. Aiming a firearm at someone is an illegal act when you're just strutting around outside your house. Having a firearm hanging at your side isn't, even if you're counter-protesting Black Lives Matter.
Black Lives Matter
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
This is the key. The St. Louis couple is being (rightfully) charged because they were clearly aiming their weapons at people who did not pose an immediate threat to them. The vast majority of armed protesters, regardless of political affiliation, are smart enough to avoid doing this. But sometimes they aren't, and when that happens, the hammer comes down.*
I'm a big believer in the 2nd Amendment. I'm generally not in favor of carrying at protests...that's a recipe for trouble...but I acknowledge people have the right to do so. But don't point your gun at someone unless you're prepared to explain to a judge why you were in fear for your life.
* Unless you're a cop. They operate on different rules.
/. "She climbed backwards out her
\/ window into Outside Over There."
\/ window into Outside Over There."
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
For a brief moment I scoffed at him being charged for firing a paintball gun, but then quickly recalled my own paintball games as a youth and how much harm you could inflict with one of those. Not even with a shot to the head, too. It's possible to crank the pressure up so you're firing balls of hurt that create bleeding craters on people's skin, through clothing. We had one kid that thought higher pressure would mean better performance. We corrected him after someone walked up, bleeding from his shot.Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:34 amThe vast majority of armed protesters, regardless of political affiliation, are smart enough to avoid doing this. But sometimes they aren't, and when that happens, the hammer comes down.
Black Lives Matter
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
It's also discouraged because if he does it out of the blue to someone who is armed with a real firearm, he might get shot.Paingod wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:01 amFor a brief moment I scoffed at him being charged for firing a paintball gun, but then quickly recalled my own paintball games as a youth and how much harm you could inflict with one of those. Not even with a shot to the head, too. It's possible to crank the pressure up so you're firing balls of hurt that create bleeding craters on people's skin, through clothing. We had one kid that thought higher pressure would mean better performance. We corrected him after someone walked up, bleeding from his shot.Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:34 amThe vast majority of armed protesters, regardless of political affiliation, are smart enough to avoid doing this. But sometimes they aren't, and when that happens, the hammer comes down.
I'm just shocked that the guy is 50. I assumed it was some kid or maybe late--20s.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
The problem is you cannot legislate racism away. No matter how many laws you make many white people are still going to dislike black people. Passing laws against racism is just going to piss them off more.
I don't think there is a cure for racism.
I don't think there is a cure for racism.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Why do those white people dislike black people, though?
People aren't born racist. They're taught it, encouraged in it, and rewarded for it by others with something to gain from the divisions.
The cure is to teach against it, discourage it, and root out the systems that reward it.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
While strictly true, people are xenophobic. Any time there is a discernable cultural difference it's likely to manifest itself in what we traditionally call racism.Holman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:11 amWhy do those white people dislike black people, though?
People aren't born racist. They're taught it, encouraged in it, and rewarded for it by others with something to gain from the divisions.
The cure is to teach against it, discourage it, and root out the systems that reward it.
We can do all the things you say, but I think it's innate and must be countered as opposed to thinking society creates it in the first place.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
People aren't born xenophobic though, so it can't be innate.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:32 amWhile strictly true, people are xenophobic. Any time there is a discernable cultural difference it's likely to manifest itself in what we traditionally call racism.Holman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:11 amWhy do those white people dislike black people, though?
People aren't born racist. They're taught it, encouraged in it, and rewarded for it by others with something to gain from the divisions.
The cure is to teach against it, discourage it, and root out the systems that reward it.
We can do all the things you say, but I think it's innate and must be countered as opposed to thinking society creates it in the first place.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Are people -naturally- xenophobic, though? Or are they xenophobic in response to circumstances and cultural indoctrination?noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:32 amWhile strictly true, people are xenophobic. Any time there is a discernable cultural difference it's likely to manifest itself in what we traditionally call racism.Holman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:11 amWhy do those white people dislike black people, though?
People aren't born racist. They're taught it, encouraged in it, and rewarded for it by others with something to gain from the divisions.
The cure is to teach against it, discourage it, and root out the systems that reward it.
We can do all the things you say, but I think it's innate and must be countered as opposed to thinking society creates it in the first place.
Our ancient ancestors were xenophobic as a survival strategy. Later civilizations have overcome plenty of early survival strategies once they became detrimental to civilization itself.
Arguments derived from “human nature” (or, more recently, from Social Darwinism or shallow anthropology) have been used to justify everything from slavery to ethnic cleansing to strict repression of women. They always turn out to be unfounded.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
I find this hard to believe. While clearly you'll find research on both sides, it definitely leans to an innate source.stessier wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:47 amPeople aren't born xenophobic though, so it can't be innate.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:32 amWhile strictly true, people are xenophobic. Any time there is a discernable cultural difference it's likely to manifest itself in what we traditionally call racism.Holman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:11 amWhy do those white people dislike black people, though?
People aren't born racist. They're taught it, encouraged in it, and rewarded for it by others with something to gain from the divisions.
The cure is to teach against it, discourage it, and root out the systems that reward it.
We can do all the things you say, but I think it's innate and must be countered as opposed to thinking society creates it in the first place.
I'm no evolutionary biologist, but we organize ourselves into tribes and our tribe is better than the other tribe. There's a big Wait but why series on it.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
I tend to see Wait But Why as shallow anthropology.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
So what is the explanation for cross race adoptions? Those kids don't fear their parents and, from what I've seen, taken on the tribe of their parents. That is learned behavior.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:54 amI find this hard to believe. While clearly you'll find research on both sides, it definitely leans to an innate source.stessier wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:47 amPeople aren't born xenophobic though, so it can't be innate.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:32 amWhile strictly true, people are xenophobic. Any time there is a discernable cultural difference it's likely to manifest itself in what we traditionally call racism.Holman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:11 amWhy do those white people dislike black people, though?
People aren't born racist. They're taught it, encouraged in it, and rewarded for it by others with something to gain from the divisions.
The cure is to teach against it, discourage it, and root out the systems that reward it.
We can do all the things you say, but I think it's innate and must be countered as opposed to thinking society creates it in the first place.
I'm no evolutionary biologist, but we organize ourselves into tribes and our tribe is better than the other tribe. There's a big Wait but why series on it.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
I'd love to see an argument that says xenophobia isn't innate yet can explain the consistent tribal violence and raiding that has existed for as long as we have anthropological evidence... even prior to city states let alone nation states.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Right. It's culture based not race based. Which is why I said xenophobia and not racism. But tribalism is innate and will manifest itself in a multitude of ways such as racism.
I have negative physical reactions to people who identify with Trump. My brain has clearly wired itself to hate and fear that tribe. I suspect that's pretty common for readers of this board.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
I don't see how that follows. The parents teach the kids to honor the tribe. There is nothing in the kid to define a tribe to follow.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:21 pmRight. It's culture based not race based. Which is why I said xenophobia and not racism. But tribalism is innate and will manifest itself in a multitude of ways such as racism.
This seems very much like a chicken and egg thing - neither of us is going to be able to prove it.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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- LawBeefaroni
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Tribe isn't always race.stessier wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:18 pmSo what is the explanation for cross race adoptions? Those kids don't fear their parents and, from what I've seen, taken on the tribe of their parents. That is learned behavior.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:54 amI find this hard to believe. While clearly you'll find research on both sides, it definitely leans to an innate source.stessier wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:47 amPeople aren't born xenophobic though, so it can't be innate.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:32 amWhile strictly true, people are xenophobic. Any time there is a discernable cultural difference it's likely to manifest itself in what we traditionally call racism.Holman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:11 amWhy do those white people dislike black people, though?
People aren't born racist. They're taught it, encouraged in it, and rewarded for it by others with something to gain from the divisions.
The cure is to teach against it, discourage it, and root out the systems that reward it.
We can do all the things you say, but I think it's innate and must be countered as opposed to thinking society creates it in the first place.
I'm no evolutionary biologist, but we organize ourselves into tribes and our tribe is better than the other tribe. There's a big Wait but why series on it.
Racism isn't inmate. Othering is. Just like altruism is, and both come in varying degrees.
When you don't have a different race to other, it's a different religion. When you dont have a different religion, it's a different sect. Or a different city or a different part of the city.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Othering is not xenophobia. Recognizing differences is natural. Fearing them is learned.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Similarity bias. They are not like me so they are other. In vs out can be based on most anything, but physically identifiable differences like skin color are the easiest. People had to think of black people as less to justify slavery. That difference has been propagated through the decades in lots of ways. After slavery ended, we had Jim Crow and after integration we have the War on Drugs. You may not remember the war on drugs as a race thing, but conveniently for some people it seems to have worked out that way. It's not an accident that there is a strong correlation between black and criminal in most people's minds. Society has taught us that bias and it's a hard thing to fight.
Sorry I recently finished reading The New Jim Crow and we've had some pretty intense bias training at work recently and it's kind of leaking out my pores. Combine that with the other book I finished earlier this year, Fantasyland, about America's history of magical thinking that completely popped the balloon of American exceptionalism for me and my awareness has become almost painful, despite the fact that none of it really impacts me personally other than worrying about my children, who are also going to benefit from all the privilege.
Sorry I recently finished reading The New Jim Crow and we've had some pretty intense bias training at work recently and it's kind of leaking out my pores. Combine that with the other book I finished earlier this year, Fantasyland, about America's history of magical thinking that completely popped the balloon of American exceptionalism for me and my awareness has become almost painful, despite the fact that none of it really impacts me personally other than worrying about my children, who are also going to benefit from all the privilege.
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Black Lives Matter
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
But it's learned way more easily and passively than nearly anything else.
Look at it this way, religion is clearly learned, but it's damn near an ubiquitous human trait. There is something in our genetics that leads to spirituality. It's not a given and it can be unlearned, but the default is some form of religion. I'd guess that 99.9% of human cultures have had religion. Different ones, to be sure, but they still have it.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
The in-group/out-group pattern of course makes practical sense in a struggle over resources and power and etc. That’s (most of) why we have wars. And the capacity for even competing groups to negotiate peace shows that even intergroup dynamics are not inevitably hostile.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:18 pmI'd love to see an argument that says xenophobia isn't innate yet can explain the consistent tribal violence and raiding that has existed for as long as we have anthropological evidence... even prior to city states let alone nation states.
But the history of increasingly complex civilizations is the history of expanding the in-group, and that’s accomplished by cultural and political means.
The argument that “people can’t not be racist because xenophobia is innate” is really the argument that different races can’t share the same cultural/tribal/whatever group. THAT’s pernicious, and that’s what I’m arguing against.
Last edited by Holman on Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Isn't this the point of anti-bias training? We ALL have bias. Every one of us. Even the most woke person. How can that not be innate?coopasonic wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:32 pm Sorry I recently finished reading The New Jim Crow and we've had some pretty intense bias training at work recently and it's kind of leaking out my pores. Combine that with the other book I finished earlier this year, Fantasyland, about America's history of magical thinking that completely popped the balloon of American exceptionalism for me and my awareness has become almost painful, despite the fact that none of it really impacts me personally other than worrying about my children, who are also going to benefit from all the privilege.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Well, of course. Just because something is innate doesn't mean you have to let it rule your life. We all want sugar and fat. We (try) to control that urge.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
You are naturally going to want to side with your team over the other team. There is flexibility in how you identify who is and isn't on your team. Awareness can mitigate that natural bias as well.
I guess the question is what is your natural team? Is it all humanity or just mom? Fear is natural. It's a defense mechanism. How do you know what to be afraid of though?
My reading hasn't gone there, but I have ideas.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Once again, have to wait and see but the officer was arrested and charged very quickly. Sounds very bad.WOLFE CITY, Texas -- A Black man who was fatally shot by a white police officer in a small East Texas city had offered a handshake to the officer, asking if he was "doing good," as the officer arrived at a convenience store to check out a report of a fight, according to a court document released Wednesday.
Wolfe City police officer Shaun Lucas has been charged with murder in the weekend death of 31-year-old Jonathan Price, whose funeral will be held Saturday at the high school football field in the city of about 1,500 people located about 70 miles northeast of Dallas.
Will Middlebrooks has no doubts.
A Texas man who was fatally shot by a police officer over the weekend was killed in “an act of racism,” a former Major League Baseball player charged, while vowing that justice would be served in his death.
Will Middlebrooks, a former third baseman for the Boston Red Sox, spoke out about his childhood friend Jonathan Price, who was shot to death while breaking up a fight in Wolfe City late Saturday.
“This was purely an act of racism,” Middlebrooks wrote in a Facebook post on Sunday. “Period.”
Middlebrooks said Price, who had intervened when he saw a man and a woman brawling outside a gas station, was “singled out” by the responding police officer during the fatal shooting.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
A dash of levity for the thread.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
I see where the gentle people of Portland have rioted protested our past presidents for being anti indigenous people because today is Columbus day.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
That's been a Big Deal™ in these parts for a while.
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/03/20/c ... y-cabrini/
Denver has its own take:
https://news.ucdenver.edu/second-monday ... oples-day/
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
I suppose this goes here and I didn't see it anywhere else.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/security-guar ... d=73583872
The right-wing is making a big deal about the shooter's space invaders tattoo and that he wasn't a licensed security guard. Does that even matter? Isn't it self defense?
Frame by frame breakdown-
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/10/12/d ... -sequence/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/security-guar ... d=73583872
The right-wing is making a big deal about the shooter's space invaders tattoo and that he wasn't a licensed security guard. Does that even matter? Isn't it self defense?
Frame by frame breakdown-
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/10/12/d ... -sequence/
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Unlike Trump supporters, Biden supporters won’t hail the guy as a hero and hold special events for his mother.Alefroth wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:24 pm I suppose this goes here and I didn't see it anywhere else.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/security-guar ... d=73583872
The right-wing is making a big deal about the shooter's space invaders tattoo and that he wasn't a licensed security guard. Does that even matter? Isn't it self defense?
Frame by frame breakdown-
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/10/12/d ... -sequence/
He won. Period.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
It wouldn't matter in Texas. I don't know the details of Colorado law, but I wouldn't THINK it would matter.
But this is why we have courts and juries. They'll sort it out.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
So it turns out the details matter.
Colorado doesn't have a "duty to retreat" but the law does say that "any action taken in self-defense must be generally proportionate to the attack." Meaning - even if you reasonably believe that someone is going to punch you, you're not allowed to shoot them. You're only allowed to punch back. I'm not at all fond of this kind of law because it really puts women and people with disabilities in a tough spot, but I don't make the laws in Colorado. That may well complicate Dolloff's self-defense claim. Also, Colorado law says that if you START a fight, you're not allowed to claim self-defense, unless you make it ultra-super clear you'd like to stop now. Dolloff never ran away, like Rittenhouse did.
Here's a long article about it. Long story short - this one is complicated. I hope Dolloff can manage one hell of a GoFund Me....I suspect he'll need it.
Colorado doesn't have a "duty to retreat" but the law does say that "any action taken in self-defense must be generally proportionate to the attack." Meaning - even if you reasonably believe that someone is going to punch you, you're not allowed to shoot them. You're only allowed to punch back. I'm not at all fond of this kind of law because it really puts women and people with disabilities in a tough spot, but I don't make the laws in Colorado. That may well complicate Dolloff's self-defense claim. Also, Colorado law says that if you START a fight, you're not allowed to claim self-defense, unless you make it ultra-super clear you'd like to stop now. Dolloff never ran away, like Rittenhouse did.
Here's a long article about it. Long story short - this one is complicated. I hope Dolloff can manage one hell of a GoFund Me....I suspect he'll need it.
/. "She climbed backwards out her
\/ window into Outside Over There."
\/ window into Outside Over There."
- LawBeefaroni
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
If Keltner was reaching for OC spray or a gun, it may be justified but it's kind of unclear. Civilians are held to a higher standard than cops. I'd think he'd have to have seen the gun/OC rather than the guy just reaching for something.
I'll say this, in all my civilian training, it's stressed that your first duty is to retreat and disengage when you're armed. Someone's robbing a store? Back away and get to cover/concealment. Someone road raging? Let them pass you until they're out of sight then stop to get more distance. They follow you? Drive to a police station or public space with cameras. Someone insulting you and calling you a "bitch"? Be the "bitch", walk away.
Anyway, both these guys escalated and seemed to be emboldened by being armed (one with a gun, one with OC and possibly a gun). Not properly trained or not heeding proper training.
Also "unofficial" armed security? That's not security. That's liability.
Regardless of legal justification, I see the problem right here.Both men yelled and postured
I'll say this, in all my civilian training, it's stressed that your first duty is to retreat and disengage when you're armed. Someone's robbing a store? Back away and get to cover/concealment. Someone road raging? Let them pass you until they're out of sight then stop to get more distance. They follow you? Drive to a police station or public space with cameras. Someone insulting you and calling you a "bitch"? Be the "bitch", walk away.
Anyway, both these guys escalated and seemed to be emboldened by being armed (one with a gun, one with OC and possibly a gun). Not properly trained or not heeding proper training.
Also "unofficial" armed security? That's not security. That's liability.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Thank you for unlocking the thread, ILB!
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Yeah, his employers are now trying to distance themselves.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:30 amAlso "unofficial" armed security? That's not security. That's liability.
Staff at Denver’s 9News did not know a security guard protecting their journalists at protests over the weekend was armed until the guard opened fire and killed a protester, the station announced Tuesday.
“As stated yesterday, 9NEWS does not contract directly with individual security personnel. 9NEWS contracted with Pinkerton and had directed that security guards accompanying our personnel not be armed,” Mark Cornetta, president and general manager of the station, said in a statement. “None of 9NEWS’ crew accompanied by Mr. Dolloff on Saturday were aware that he was armed.”
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
My bad on locking, fat-fingered it.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)
Philadelphia police shot and killed a mentally ill black man with a knife today. He was definitely approaching them while his mother was chasing him telling him to put it down. It is hard to fault the officers in this case. They attempted to put distance between them several times. It is a horrible situation that is a no win for all involved. In any case, the whole thing has quickly gotten out of control - hopefully not in your part of town @Holman. The people on the street started yelling at the police throughout the shooting investigation and opportunistic rioting has broken out in parts of the city complete with setting police vehicles on fire.
Sad situation and bad, bad timing. I expect to hear Trump crowing about this in the morning. As usual the right-wing racists and agitators like the excretable Andy Ngo are calling them black lives matter rioters. This is inevitable. It doesn't matter how legitimate the actions are. The populace has had it with police violence no matter how justified. Just throw it on the pile of massive problems we face. At least Biden has a shot at calming it down whereas I expect Trump to pour jet fuel on it.
Sad situation and bad, bad timing. I expect to hear Trump crowing about this in the morning. As usual the right-wing racists and agitators like the excretable Andy Ngo are calling them black lives matter rioters. This is inevitable. It doesn't matter how legitimate the actions are. The populace has had it with police violence no matter how justified. Just throw it on the pile of massive problems we face. At least Biden has a shot at calming it down whereas I expect Trump to pour jet fuel on it.