The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[Smoove_B]

Ah. I'm not exactly sure what could be done for that, but I am guessing the next hurdle will be when the CDC recommends that the COVID-19 vaccination is adopted by states as part of their childhood immunization schedule. Here the states have the ultimate authority on deciding that and I could see the feds crafting some type of cash-incentive to states that do incorporate it as a mandatory childhood vaccine.

But I can also see people in some states strapping bombs to their chests and blowing themselves up in protest once they realize what the next step is (mandating children are vaccinated).

Either way, mandating it for children would be carrot based. There's already like 2 dozen (maybe more at this point) state that allow for religious or personal belief exemptions (mine included) for school-based vaccinations, so I'm not really sure how we get around that either. Really, there needs to be more pressure - perhaps another Supreme Court decision that address religious or personal belief exemptions to vaccinations. Otherwise, this is going to keep coming up - particularly now that some states are actually trying to actively repeal *all* childhood vaccination requirements. Sorry for the digression.

Mandating paperwork and overhead is certainly a short-term solution, but that's only as good as the locals that are willing to enforce it.

I keep saying it, but history is not going to believe (1) how this was handled in America and (2) how long it went on - globally and in America.

[Kraken]

In other news, we never learn. 19+ months later and part of the plan involves trusting people to do the right thing. JFC already.

"CDC puts faith in ‘self-attestation’ of Americans to not get a booster before they’re eligible". That has as much chance to succeed as the May announcement to drop need for masks except in the unvaccinated

When me and Wife hit 6 months post-Pfizer I'll be four months shy of 65, and she'll be one month past. "Self-attesting" would be a really minor fib. It's not like I'd be taking the dose away from someone else; there's plenty of vaccine and operators are standing by.

[Daehawk]

It should be nov for me. Might see if I can get it oct as I get my flu shot then. But prob cant get them close together anyways.

[Freyland]

My hospital is quite willing to give both the booster and our mandatory flu shots at the same time. They did, however, suggest scheduling that visit for when you don't work the next day.

[Kasey Chang]

Another point made against the stupidity of COVID vaccine refusal:

WSJ has just reported that COVID is MORE THAN 400% more deadly than gunfire to a police officer's life. Since January 2020, 420 have died from COVID, compared to 92 from gunfire.

https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1441549275939344385?s=20

Someone posted this in response:

[Kasey Chang]

I am trying out a "pithy saying"

COVID-19 will end when it runs out of potential victims. It's up to you to choose among vaccination, death, luck, or extraordinary medical intervention (ECMO and lung transplant, not Ivermectin and Betadine). Choose soon, or the choice may be taken out of your hands. Choose wisely.

[Kasey Chang]

Go Canada!

Quebec's National Assembly has passed, unanimously, a new law to prevent anti-vaccine protests within 50 m of schools, daycares, hospitals, and COVID-19 testing/vaccine sites.

[Daehawk]

Its a shame that that even has to be a law. If you're that type of person then stay home and die quietly.

[Isgrimnur]

They aren't fulfilled until they can scream into the face of a 6yo child.

[Daehawk]

Half the country is Westboro Baptist Church.

[Smoove_B]

Sorry...wrong thread originally

Nice to see judges are being consistent with prior employment-related vaccination mandates, from a case in OHIO:

"If an employee believes his or her individual liberties are more important than legally permissible conditions on his or her employment, that employee can and should choose to exercise another individual liberty, no less significant — the right to seek other employment," Bunning wrote.

[Smoove_B]

Unreal

Nope. Nearly 200 S.F. police staff want religious exemptions from city's COVID-19 vaccine mandate.

As has been pointed out, more police died over the last year from COVID-19 than any other causes...combined.

[Blackhawk]

To Infect and Serve.

[Kraken]

"Police staff" doesn't necessarily mean uniformed LEOs. Google tells me the SF Police have 2,913 staff (2020). A different source says 1,869 of them are full-duty officers.

[Drazzil]

In a stark departure of gravedancing covid deniers and wishing them hell in afterlife. I will post the story of a man local to me who was unvaccinated and I *DO* have genuine sympathy for and wish his family peace.

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/ ... d-son.html

He was a public servant and a middle age black man. He just waited too long to get the vaccine DESPITE his families pleading. His own mother remarking:

"“People have a choice: either take the vaccine and be protected or don’t take the vaccine and die,” said Carolyn Jackson, Mitchell’s mother, who is vaccinated"

I do not know what his views on COVID 19 were because he did not post antivaccination screeds on Facebook or whine about his "FREEDUM", He merely drove a bus.

Roger Mitchell you will be missed. Your family has my deepest sympathies. My fondest hope is that the people in your community who are hesitating may take your unfortunate, premature and entirely preventable death as an example and get the lifesaving vaccine.

[Drazzil]

Unreal

Nope. Nearly 200 S.F. police staff want religious exemptions from city's COVID-19 vaccine mandate.

As has been pointed out, more police died over the last year from COVID-19 than any other causes...combined.

So. COVID is going to kill MAGAers and Pigs who don't care enough about the communities they serve to roll up their sleeves and take a shot? Fuck them, I dance on their graves. I can unequivocally say that the world will be better off without them.


Yeah. This came out way too strongly. I would ask something though. Do you guys feel like its appropriate to gravedance people who are in positions of power (like police or politicians) and to a lesser extent MAGA types who actively encourage and ferment conspiracy theories online? I've been struggling with this myself. The biggest part of me says "Yes" But a smaller part of me sorta wonders if they aren't just caught up in it themselves. Does the RW media play a larger role? Is it appropriate to grave dance those instead?

Gravedancing takes a lot of effort and rarely makes me feel better so. Yaknow. Just nod and carry on.

[Kasey Chang]

I don't have too many encounters with antivaxxers, but one ride I have was with an antivaxxer Lyft driver... who happens to be black. He's listening to this radio/podcast talking about conspiracies and vaccines, the Tuskegee Experiment, microchips, population control, white power, and a bunch of other crap. I know the Tuskeegee experiment was a disgrace upon the medical community at the time... but NOBODY was deliberately infected. They were simply unethically used as placebo control group. AND the US government had admitted to it, apologized, AND both gave survivors medical benefits for life AND paid the survivors and family, IIRC. Claiming Tuskegee "proves" COVID conspiracy requires a leap of faith size of Grand Canyon.

[malchior]

AND the US government had admitted to it, apologized, AND both gave survivors medical benefits for life AND paid the survivors and family, IIRC. Claiming Tuskegee "proves" COVID conspiracy requires a leap of faith size of Grand Canyon.

Oh really? Maybe someone should mention that to the community so they can just get over it. I mean it was just a one time slip up, amirite?

[Victoria Raverna]

I don't have too many encounters with antivaxxers, but one ride I have was with an antivaxxer Lyft driver... who happens to be black. He's listening to this radio/podcast talking about conspiracies and vaccines, the Tuskegee Experiment, microchips, population control, white power, and a bunch of other crap. I know the Tuskeegee experiment was a disgrace upon the medical community at the time... but NOBODY was deliberately infected. They were simply unethically used as placebo control group. AND the US government had admitted to it, apologized, AND both gave survivors medical benefits for life AND paid the survivors and family, IIRC. Claiming Tuskegee "proves" COVID conspiracy requires a leap of faith size of Grand Canyon.

The Tuskegee Experiment was about not treating almost 400 African Americans so the scientists can observe the effects of untreated syphilis. Also about lying to them about getting treatment so they're willing to be tested. Instead of treating them, they're just test subjects.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ret ... xperiment/

Not used as placebo control group. They're used as test subjects to see how people suffered and died when untreated:

The study recruited 600 black men, of which 399 were diagnosed with syphilis and 201 were a control group without the disease. The researchers never obtained informed consent from the men and never told the men with syphilis that they were not being treated but were simply being watched until they died and their bodies examined for ravages of the disease.

Not treated for 40 years:

Although originally projected to last six months, the study extended for 40 years. “Local physicians asked to assist with study and not to treat men,” the Centers for Disease Control reported in a timeline of the experiment. “Decision was made to follow the men until death.”

[gilraen]

AND the US government had admitted to it, apologized, AND both gave survivors medical benefits for life AND paid the survivors and family, IIRC. Claiming Tuskegee "proves" COVID conspiracy requires a leap of faith size of Grand Canyon.

Oh really? Maybe someone should mention that to the community so they can just get over it. I mean it was just a one time slip up, amirite?

Over 6 billion doses of various COVID vaccines have been administered around the world to people of all races. So in this context - yeah, they need to get over it and stop hurting themselves, their families and their communities by not getting vaccinating because they keep claiming that it's yet another government conspiracy.

[Victoria Raverna]

AND the US government had admitted to it, apologized, AND both gave survivors medical benefits for life AND paid the survivors and family, IIRC. Claiming Tuskegee "proves" COVID conspiracy requires a leap of faith size of Grand Canyon.

Oh really? Maybe someone should mention that to the community so they can just get over it. I mean it was just a one time slip up, amirite?

Over 6 billion doses of various COVID vaccines have been administered around the world to people of all races. So in this context - yeah, they need to get over it and stop hurting themselves, their families and their communities by not getting vaccinating because they keep claiming that it's yet another government conspiracy.

While I agree with you. I can understand the mistrust since the Tuskeegee experiment went on for 40 years. If the CDC can lie to African Americans for 40 years, how can they trust CDC that the vaccine is safe? How can they know if they're getting the same vaccine as the people of other races not something just for the African Americans?

[Kasey Chang]

I'm trying out another pithy saying:

Mask is not the cure. It just improves your odds you're still around when there is a cure.

Too long?

[Drazzil]

What is the endgame of the antivaxxers? What sort of statement does all of this make? I can't seem to understand this. You're killing yourself, friends and family over wanting to own the other side? You're a police officer or a nurse who swears an oath to protect and serve or to do no harm and yet...

[Drazzil]

AND the US government had admitted to it, apologized, AND both gave survivors medical benefits for life AND paid the survivors and family, IIRC. Claiming Tuskegee "proves" COVID conspiracy requires a leap of faith size of Grand Canyon.

Oh really? Maybe someone should mention that to the community so they can just get over it. I mean it was just a one time slip up, amirite?

Over 6 billion doses of various COVID vaccines have been administered around the world to people of all races. So in this context - yeah, they need to get over it and stop hurting themselves, their families and their communities by not getting vaccinating because they keep claiming that it's yet another government conspiracy.

While I agree with you. I can understand the mistrust since the Tuskeegee experiment went on for 40 years. If the CDC can lie to African Americans for 40 years, how can they trust CDC that the vaccine is safe? How can they know if they're getting the same vaccine as the people of other races not something just for the African Americans?

That'd be a hell of a conspiracy to keep quiet, involving the manufacturers, distributors, and individual care providers to reach under their desks to get the "special" vaccine whenever a black patient rolls in their office. Anyone with an ounce of two brain cells to rub together can tell that this isn't going to work, and I'm a professional paranoid for a living.

[Kasey Chang]

Yeah Canada AGAIN!

https://twitter.com/TorontoStar/status/ ... 44709?s=20

People who choose not to get the COVID-19 vaccine due to personal preferences or “singular beliefs” do not have a right to accommodations under Ontario’s human rights law, the province’s rights watchdog says.

Now, if we can only adopt some of this in the US... Or I may have to move north...

[Little Raven]

Lovely.

At the drugstore, a rapid Covid test usually costs less than $20.

Across the country, over a dozen testing sites owned by the start-up company GS Labs regularly bill $380.

There’s a reason they can. When Congress tried to ensure that Americans wouldn’t have to pay for coronavirus testing, it required insurers to pay certain laboratories whatever “cash price” they listed online for the tests, with no limit on what that might be.

GS Labs’s high prices and growing presence — it has performed a half-million rapid tests since the pandemic’s start, and still runs thousands daily — show how the government’s longstanding reluctance to play a role in health prices has hampered its attempt to protect consumers. As a result, Americans could ultimately pay some of the cost of expensive coronavirus tests in the form of higher insurance premiums.

Many health insurers have refused to pay GS Labs’ fees, some contending that the laboratory is price-gouging during a public health crisis. A Blue Cross plan in Missouri has sued GS Labs over its prices, seeking a ruling that would void $10.9 million in outstanding claims.

In court last month, the insurer claimed that the fees were “disaster profiteering,” and in violation of public policy.

Omaha-based GS Labs contends the exact opposite: that it has public policy on its side, pointing to the CARES Act passed in 2020. “Insurers are obligated to pay cash price, unless we come to a negotiated rate,” said Christopher Erickson, a partner at GS Labs.

I am not a law-speaking person guy. Who is likely to win here?

[Anonymous Bosch]

Lovely.

At the drugstore, a rapid Covid test usually costs less than $20.

Across the country, over a dozen testing sites owned by the start-up company GS Labs regularly bill $380.

There’s a reason they can. When Congress tried to ensure that Americans wouldn’t have to pay for coronavirus testing, it required insurers to pay certain laboratories whatever “cash price” they listed online for the tests, with no limit on what that might be.

GS Labs’s high prices and growing presence — it has performed a half-million rapid tests since the pandemic’s start, and still runs thousands daily — show how the government’s longstanding reluctance to play a role in health prices has hampered its attempt to protect consumers. As a result, Americans could ultimately pay some of the cost of expensive coronavirus tests in the form of higher insurance premiums.

Many health insurers have refused to pay GS Labs’ fees, some contending that the laboratory is price-gouging during a public health crisis. A Blue Cross plan in Missouri has sued GS Labs over its prices, seeking a ruling that would void $10.9 million in outstanding claims.

In court last month, the insurer claimed that the fees were “disaster profiteering,” and in violation of public policy.

Omaha-based GS Labs contends the exact opposite: that it has public policy on its side, pointing to the CARES Act passed in 2020. “Insurers are obligated to pay cash price, unless we come to a negotiated rate,” said Christopher Erickson, a partner at GS Labs.

I am not a law-speaking person guy. Who is likely to win here?

[malchior]

Storming a food court in Staten Island? They sure showed the libs.

[Alefroth]

They're just happy they finally have something they can protest.

[Drazzil]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/26/health/c ... index.html

[malchior]

This is a good question by Ornstein. Police and the unions seemingly lean #MAGA but to what extent? It's hard to tell.

[El Guapo]

Plus, assuming that SPAM (heh) leadership probably tilts MAGA, I'm not 100% sure that we can trust the statement, as they have lots of incentive to puff themselves up. So I wouldn't be super confident that all that paperwork actually gets filed.

[LawBeefaroni]

Lovely.

At the drugstore, a rapid Covid test usually costs less than $20.

Across the country, over a dozen testing sites owned by the start-up company GS Labs regularly bill $380.

There’s a reason they can. When Congress tried to ensure that Americans wouldn’t have to pay for coronavirus testing, it required insurers to pay certain laboratories whatever “cash price” they listed online for the tests, with no limit on what that might be.

GS Labs’s high prices and growing presence — it has performed a half-million rapid tests since the pandemic’s start, and still runs thousands daily — show how the government’s longstanding reluctance to play a role in health prices has hampered its attempt to protect consumers. As a result, Americans could ultimately pay some of the cost of expensive coronavirus tests in the form of higher insurance premiums.

Many health insurers have refused to pay GS Labs’ fees, some contending that the laboratory is price-gouging during a public health crisis. A Blue Cross plan in Missouri has sued GS Labs over its prices, seeking a ruling that would void $10.9 million in outstanding claims.

In court last month, the insurer claimed that the fees were “disaster profiteering,” and in violation of public policy.

Omaha-based GS Labs contends the exact opposite: that it has public policy on its side, pointing to the CARES Act passed in 2020. “Insurers are obligated to pay cash price, unless we come to a negotiated rate,” said Christopher Erickson, a partner at GS Labs.

I am not a law-speaking person guy. Who is likely to win here?

My hunch is that the government and/or courts will settle on a reimbursement they won't make either side happy but will be significantly lower than $380. All claims will get repriced.

[Unagi]

This is a good question by Ornstein. Police and the unions seemingly lean #MAGA but to what extent? It's hard to tell.

If she could she would have said ‘hundreds’, so at the best it’s 9%.
But I’m guessing it’s 2-4 dozen at the most.

[Isgrimnur]

[El Guapo]

Also, while I feel for the workload burden on other troopers...for the most part anyone willing to actually resign over this is probably doing us a favor overall.

[Zaxxon]

Also, while I feel for the workload burden on other troopers...for the most part anyone willing to actually resign over this is probably doing us a favor overall.

This.

[Pyperkub]

Ben Garrison volunteers for a Darwin Award...

Anti-Vaccine Cartoonist Ben Garrison Says He's Got Covid-19, Won't Go to Hospital
The pro-Trump cartoonist says he's lost about 15 pounds and is taking ivermectin.

[Drazzil]

Ben Garrison volunteers for a Darwin Herman Cain Award...

Anti-Vaccine Cartoonist Ben Garrison Says He's Got Covid-19, Won't Go to Hospital
The pro-Trump cartoonist says he's lost about 15 pounds and is taking ivermectin.

FTFY

[Pyperkub]

Ben Garrison volunteers for a Darwin Herman Cain Award...

Anti-Vaccine Cartoonist Ben Garrison Says He's Got Covid-19, Won't Go to Hospital
The pro-Trump cartoonist says he's lost about 15 pounds and is taking ivermectin.

FTFY

As Amos would say, Why not both?