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Shootings

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Defiant
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Re: Shootings

Post by Defiant »

malchior wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:45 pm We're now at school's have too many doors. Funnel all the soft targets in one door. What can go wrong?

Waiting for another politician to one-up this and say that we need to have schools with zero doors. :ninja:
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Re: Shootings

Post by Kraken »

UsulofDoom wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:16 pm It seems redundant when they say, "weapons of any kind".
That's there to cover swords, maces, pikes, etc. :wink:
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Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

They mentioned the mace specifically.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

:wink:
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Re: Shootings

Post by Kraken »

OK then, trebuchets.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Enough »

To add to the timeline,



https://twitter.com/_Sir_Perfluous/stat ... 6848411651

I can't imagine the parents who were being forcibly held back by the cops from retrieving their own kids during active shooter and following long wait will like hearing the cops went in and got their kids.
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Re: Shootings

Post by dbt1949 »

John Wick can make a pencil or a book into a weapon.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Alefroth »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:26 pm
Alefroth wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:16 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:45 am There are ways to restrict gun ownership and gun use that don't rely on a constitutional amendment.
On the other hand, there are ways to provide gun ownership without enshrining it in the Constitution.
Sure but constitutional amendments are a pretty big lift.
No doubt about that. I'm not saying it's likely, but personally, I've been moving closer and closer to that position.
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Re: Shootings

Post by malchior »

Enough wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:00 amI can't imagine the parents who were being forcibly held back by the cops from retrieving their own kids during active shooter and following long wait will like hearing the cops went in and got their kids.
Seriously. There are videos of the police pinning down parents while the wailed away. And some of their own were getting their own kids out? It's seems like a natural reaction but it's also speaks to the problem where the police demonstrate that they have all sorts of 'special rules' for themselves.

It also still boggles the mind that we're at the point that we have dedicated police departments for schools and they still fail spectacturly at their most important function. They apparently had no plan at all about what to do. They essentially trapped him in the room with schoolchildren and had no next move until the Border Patrol tactical unit showed up. And they are patting themselves on the back that they pinned him down so he didn't do more harm? Pure fuckery. I suppose nothing is more American than gun violence but a close second is unaccountable authority.
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Re: Shootings

Post by malchior »

Kurth wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:54 pm Or it could have absolute no impact. Nothing is going to happen. Polls on this don’t mean much.
There is a whole body of study that tells us polls on nearly any policy topic don't matter much unless it aligns with oligarchic goals. On this topic we just have to see the obviousness of the truth that oligarchs don't worry too much about gun violence individually.
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Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:45 pm We're now at school's have too many doors. Funnel all the soft targets in one door. What can go wrong?

It's against code,. obviously. And an armed cop did see him crash his car and proceed to enter the back door. The cop didn't "take him out". He allowed him to enter.
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Re: Shootings

Post by $iljanus »

UsulofDoom wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:16 pm
Kraken wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:13 pm (Via Snopes)

Image

Yes, you read that correctly. Guns are banned at the NRA's conference.
It seems redundant when they say, "weapons of any kind".
That means leave your throwing stars at home.
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Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

If they're being consistent, attendees and speakers would boycott the conference. But we know they won't.
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Re: Shootings

Post by ImLawBoy »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 7:33 am
malchior wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:45 pm We're now at school's have too many doors. Funnel all the soft targets in one door. What can go wrong?

It's against code,. obviously. And an armed cop did see him crash his car and proceed to enter the back door. The cop didn't "take him out". He allowed him to enter.
I think it's safe to say they wouldn't actually wall up the other doors - they'd just make them only open from the inside so that there were multiple egress points during a fire. It's still a wildly stupid idea, of course, but the fire safety concern isn't much of one I don't think. Focus more on the idea of getting all the targets students gathered together in a single spot at a predictable point during the day. Then focus on where these "fiscal conservatives" are going to find the money for this. Then focus on how masks are tyranny that are going to scar our kids but it's just peachy to turn the schools into prisons.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

Every school my children has been in, 7 of em, has had all but one door locked and entrance is only allowed through a front door that (aside from the very start of school) is remote-locked, you need to buzz to get in.

The other doors exist, can be used in emergencies and are occasionally used in the day to give kids access to playfields, playgrounds, but in theory would not be available to a person trying to get in uninvited.

Not sure why you think that’s what he meant when he said ‘one door’.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

All that being said, I’ve not heard anything about how that school handled it’s back door. Was it unlocked? Cause that would indeed be a good door to lock (/ make exit only)
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Re: Shootings

Post by naednek »

Isgrimnur wrote:Digging deeper would cost me ~$500 for an annual subscription.
And?

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Re: Shootings

Post by YellowKing »

The one door thing is just political theater to distract from the real issue. Our schools have one entry that you have to be buzzed to get in, and that's all well and good. That may stop some random person with no plan from just walking inside. It's not going to stop a determined shooter from getting in. Wait outside, wait for someone to open the door to leave, walk in. You don't have to be a criminal mastermind to get around that.

And what about grocery stores, churches, you going to lock those down to one door as well? It's nonsense. These gun nut politicians have blood on their hands, period.
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Re: Shootings

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Re: Shootings

Post by EvilHomer3k »

malchior wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:59 am
Enough wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:00 amI can't imagine the parents who were being forcibly held back by the cops from retrieving their own kids during active shooter and following long wait will like hearing the cops went in and got their kids.
Seriously. There are videos of the police pinning down parents while the wailed away. And some of their own were getting their own kids out? It's seems like a natural reaction but it's also speaks to the problem where the police demonstrate that they have all sorts of 'special rules' for themselves.

It also still boggles the mind that we're at the point that we have dedicated police departments for schools and they still fail spectacturly at their most important function. They apparently had no plan at all about what to do. They essentially trapped him in the room with schoolchildren and had no next move until the Border Patrol tactical unit showed up. And they are patting themselves on the back that they pinned him down so he didn't do more harm? Pure fuckery. I suppose nothing is more American than gun violence but a close second is unaccountable authority.
I don't recommend watching those videos. They are absolutely heartbreaking and disgusting. It seems the cops failed over and over and over here.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

I mean, we can blame politicians that spew hatred and all that (and we should, I suppose), but the sad truth is they do it to keep getting elected by the people that are electing them.
Blindly or with eyes wide open.

We can also blame anyone that sits home in Kentucky instead of voting against the trash they have handed us. (Just an example, there are others, of course)
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Re: Shootings

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Re: Shootings

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Unagi wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:59 am Every school my children has been in, 7 of em, has had all but one door locked and entrance is only allowed through a front door that (aside from the very start of school) is remote-locked, you need to buzz to get in.

The other doors exist, can be used in emergencies and are occasionally used in the day to give kids access to playfields, playgrounds, but in theory would not be available to a person trying to get in uninvited.

Not sure why you think that’s what he meant when he said ‘one door’.
Assuming that last bit is directed to me, that's pretty obvious, I think. Unless you think he was seriously advocating retrofitting tens of thousands of schools to wall up existing doors in contravention of all common sense and safety concerns (and I get the joke that the GOP is that stupid so we want to try to dunk on them, but that's more cathartic than productive in these discussions), the only reasonable interpretation is that he wants to use only one entrance to the school while still making the other doors available for emergency exits. It's still a bad plan! It's still a distraction from the real issues! But he's not really advocating that we try to prevent the possibility of more attacks in schools by creating deadly fire hazards.
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Re: Shootings

Post by EvilHomer3k »

ImLawBoy wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:12 am
Unagi wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:59 am Every school my children has been in, 7 of em, has had all but one door locked and entrance is only allowed through a front door that (aside from the very start of school) is remote-locked, you need to buzz to get in.

The other doors exist, can be used in emergencies and are occasionally used in the day to give kids access to playfields, playgrounds, but in theory would not be available to a person trying to get in uninvited.

Not sure why you think that’s what he meant when he said ‘one door’.
Assuming that last bit is directed to me, that's pretty obvious, I think. Unless you think he was seriously advocating retrofitting tens of thousands of schools to wall up existing doors in contravention of all common sense and safety concerns (and I get the joke that the GOP is that stupid so we want to try to dunk on them, but that's more cathartic than productive in these discussions), the only reasonable interpretation is that he wants to use only one entrance to the school while still making the other doors available for emergency exits. It's still a bad plan! It's still a distraction from the real issues! But he's not really advocating that we try to prevent the possibility of more attacks in schools by creating deadly fire hazards.
The argument that schools need to be hardened (arm teachers, only one door for access) is equivalent to "she was asking for it". It's just blaming the victim to hide the inaction on the real problems.
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Re: Shootings

Post by LordMortis »

EvilHomer3k wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:21 am The argument that schools need to be hardened (arm teachers, only one door for access) is equivalent to "she was asking for it". It's just blaming the victim to hide the inaction on the real problems.
This. Referring to children and teachers in the US going about their business of education as soft targets for the mentally ill who are entitled to unlimited access to firearms without question is just mind soul crushing to me.
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Re: Shootings

Post by ImLawBoy »

EvilHomer3k wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:21 am
ImLawBoy wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:12 am
Unagi wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:59 am Every school my children has been in, 7 of em, has had all but one door locked and entrance is only allowed through a front door that (aside from the very start of school) is remote-locked, you need to buzz to get in.

The other doors exist, can be used in emergencies and are occasionally used in the day to give kids access to playfields, playgrounds, but in theory would not be available to a person trying to get in uninvited.

Not sure why you think that’s what he meant when he said ‘one door’.
Assuming that last bit is directed to me, that's pretty obvious, I think. Unless you think he was seriously advocating retrofitting tens of thousands of schools to wall up existing doors in contravention of all common sense and safety concerns (and I get the joke that the GOP is that stupid so we want to try to dunk on them, but that's more cathartic than productive in these discussions), the only reasonable interpretation is that he wants to use only one entrance to the school while still making the other doors available for emergency exits. It's still a bad plan! It's still a distraction from the real issues! But he's not really advocating that we try to prevent the possibility of more attacks in schools by creating deadly fire hazards.
The argument that schools need to be hardened (arm teachers, only one door for access) is equivalent to "she was asking for it". It's just blaming the victim to hide the inaction on the real problems.
Absolutely! It's a terrible plan!
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Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

ImLawBoy wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:12 am
Unagi wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:59 am Every school my children has been in, 7 of em, has had all but one door locked and entrance is only allowed through a front door that (aside from the very start of school) is remote-locked, you need to buzz to get in.

The other doors exist, can be used in emergencies and are occasionally used in the day to give kids access to playfields, playgrounds, but in theory would not be available to a person trying to get in uninvited.

Not sure why you think that’s what he meant when he said ‘one door’.
Assuming that last bit is directed to me, that's pretty obvious, I think. Unless you think he was seriously advocating retrofitting tens of thousands of schools to wall up existing doors in contravention of all common sense and safety concerns (and I get the joke that the GOP is that stupid so we want to try to dunk on them, but that's more cathartic than productive in these discussions), the only reasonable interpretation is that he wants to use only one entrance to the school while still making the other doors available for emergency exits. It's still a bad plan! It's still a distraction from the real issues! But he's not really advocating that we try to prevent the possibility of more attacks in schools by creating deadly fire hazards.
Yeah, apparently every Twitter reference omitted the word "unlocked" from the Cruz quote. He said the problem was "unlocked doors". Still a bad take but intentionally misrepresenting his quote is counterproductive.
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Re: Shootings

Post by YellowKing »

And again, that's great for schools. What about churches, grocery stores, malls, concerts, office buildings, etc.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 12:42 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:12 am
Unagi wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:59 am Every school my children has been in, 7 of em, has had all but one door locked and entrance is only allowed through a front door that (aside from the very start of school) is remote-locked, you need to buzz to get in.

The other doors exist, can be used in emergencies and are occasionally used in the day to give kids access to playfields, playgrounds, but in theory would not be available to a person trying to get in uninvited.

Not sure why you think that’s what he meant when he said ‘one door’.
Assuming that last bit is directed to me, that's pretty obvious, I think. Unless you think he was seriously advocating retrofitting tens of thousands of schools to wall up existing doors in contravention of all common sense and safety concerns (and I get the joke that the GOP is that stupid so we want to try to dunk on them, but that's more cathartic than productive in these discussions), the only reasonable interpretation is that he wants to use only one entrance to the school while still making the other doors available for emergency exits. It's still a bad plan! It's still a distraction from the real issues! But he's not really advocating that we try to prevent the possibility of more attacks in schools by creating deadly fire hazards.
Yeah, apparently every Twitter reference omitted the word "unlocked" from the Cruz quote. He said the problem was "unlocked doors". Still a bad take but intentionally misrepresenting his quote is counterproductive.
Agreed 100%


Also, to clarify: The doors that are locked in my kids’ schools can still be opened from the inside with ease, but some will sound an alarm (if, the door isn’t regularly opened for gym class or something)

I assumed this is true for most of you other parents/schools?
No?
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Re: Shootings

Post by Smoove_B »

malchior wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:59 am It also still boggles the mind that we're at the point that we have dedicated police departments for schools and they still fail spectacturly at their most important function. They apparently had no plan at all about what to do. They essentially trapped him in the room with schoolchildren and had no next move until the Border Patrol tactical unit showed up. And they are patting themselves on the back that they pinned him down so he didn't do more harm? Pure fuckery. I suppose nothing is more American than gun violence but a close second is unaccountable authority.
You can almost understand how we get to police-state mentality -- where police departments are going to argue they need military surplus gear and vehicles to be able to respond to events like this. They'll sit idle for 99.99% of the time and drain tax dollars that could be spent on just about anything else, but clearly the issue with what happened here was not having the right tools to Seal Team 6 their way into the school and magically stop the shooter before he did anything.

Regarding the door comments, it's infuriating. I can't speak to what other states are doing and/or have done but I suspect it's quite similar to what I've seen in my own. For ~2 decades, schools have gone through all kinds of administrative overhauls to deal with this insanity. Above and beyond policy changes, the money that has been spent on additional security and features designed to make them less desirable targets is astounding. If only there was something else that could be done. If only.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Skinypupy »

Earlier in this school year, I had to go drop off lunch for one of the Wonder Twins at their office. They're at a new school this year, and it was the first time I'd been there.

The driveway into the school sort of curves around the building so I pulled into the first parking lot I saw. Turns out that was the "teacher's lot" with a specific entrance for badged employees. I parked, got out of my car, and walked up to the door. Pulled on it, and it was locked. Tried again to pull on it a little harder, still didn't open. I finally saw a small sign posted as you walk up to the door that said "Teacher Entrance Only". Feeling rather sheepish, I got back in my car and drove around to the other side of the building to where the main entrance was.

It didn't occur to me at the time, but I'm sure that seeing a random dude in a black shirt with a shaved head, beard, and Oakley's randomly pulling on entrance doors to the school likely caused a panic. I'm a bit surprised I wasn't surrounded by cops as I tried to leave the building.
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Re: Shootings

Post by stimpy »

Skinypupy wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:36 pm I parked, got out of my car, and walked up to the door. Pulled on it, and it was locked. Tried again to pull on it a little harder, still didn't open.
Did you try pushing?

That might be a way to solve this.
Just put a "pull" sign on all the doors, but actually make them push to open.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Skinypupy »

Jesus, this poor family.


Joe Garcia, the husband of Irma Garcia, one of two teachers shot and killed in Uvalde, TX on Tuesday, has reportedly suffered a fatal heart attack. Joe and Irma were high school sweethearts and married 24 years. They leave behind four children.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Smoove_B »

So many threads it could go into, but for now, I'll put it here:
Senate Republicans on Thursday blocked a bill that would have created new federal offices focused on domestic terrorism, stopping debate on a measure that the House passed after a shooting in Buffalo, New York, killed 1o Black people.

Why it matters: The Domestic Terrorism prevention act would have opened debate on gun measures in the wake of the deadly Texas school shooting and its failure highlights the challenges of advancing gun control legislation in the sharply divided Congress.

Driving the news: The bill failed in a 47-47 vote, which falls short of the 60 votes needed to overcome a Republican filibuster.
So I guess that ends that.
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Re: Shootings

Post by malchior »

The cop story changes yet again. I know sometimes things are chaotic but it really seems like folks are lying. At best they have a massive credibility problem now.

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Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

Send in the lawyers.
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Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Enlarge Image


That's are the badasses that took an hour to breach classroom with one guy killing kids?
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Re: Shootings

Post by Archinerd »

It seems to me, that maybe "more guns" isn't the answer.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Holman »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:16 pm Enlarge Image


That's are the badasses that took an hour to breach classroom with one guy killing kids?
No. Those are the badasses who spent an hour at the station getting their gear together and their war faces on or whatever. The cops outside the school were afraid to enter until SWAT arrived. They spent the hour yelling at parents and threatening them with Tasers.

The kids inside, of course, were busy with other things.
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Re: Shootings

Post by EvilHomer3k »

Unagi wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:12 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 12:42 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:12 am
Unagi wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:59 am Every school my children has been in, 7 of em, has had all but one door locked and entrance is only allowed through a front door that (aside from the very start of school) is remote-locked, you need to buzz to get in.

The other doors exist, can be used in emergencies and are occasionally used in the day to give kids access to playfields, playgrounds, but in theory would not be available to a person trying to get in uninvited.

Not sure why you think that’s what he meant when he said ‘one door’.
Assuming that last bit is directed to me, that's pretty obvious, I think. Unless you think he was seriously advocating retrofitting tens of thousands of schools to wall up existing doors in contravention of all common sense and safety concerns (and I get the joke that the GOP is that stupid so we want to try to dunk on them, but that's more cathartic than productive in these discussions), the only reasonable interpretation is that he wants to use only one entrance to the school while still making the other doors available for emergency exits. It's still a bad plan! It's still a distraction from the real issues! But he's not really advocating that we try to prevent the possibility of more attacks in schools by creating deadly fire hazards.
Yeah, apparently every Twitter reference omitted the word "unlocked" from the Cruz quote. He said the problem was "unlocked doors". Still a bad take but intentionally misrepresenting his quote is counterproductive.
Agreed 100%


Also, to clarify: The doors that are locked in my kids’ schools can still be opened from the inside with ease, but some will sound an alarm (if, the door isn’t regularly opened for gym class or something)

I assumed this is true for most of you other parents/schools?
No?
The doors are locked at my kids schools as well. They have been for a long time. That said, I don't think they're effective in stopping something like this. Most have windows and can easily be opened with a crowbar.

Overall, Cruz's one door comment really just shows he's out of touch he is with what's actually going on in schools (as well as how he's really just looking to shift blame). I do think that a lot could be done to harden schools but it would be expensive to build, expensive to maintain, and require years of work. Schools are already underfunded enough without taking on extra burden.

It really is crazy how everyone in America is being held hostage by the gun lobbies. Such a small group has such a ridiculous amount of power. The first thing that needs to change is laws prohibiting companies and their lobbys from contributing to campaigns.
That sound of the spoon scraping over the can ribbing as you corral the last ravioli or two is the signal that a great treat is coming. It's the washboard solo in God's own
bluegrass band of comfort food. - LawBeefaroni
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