Kedohin has been banned

[Rincewind]

Lee, although I appreciate you trying to work with me here, its just not true. I am a happy camper with nothing to bitch about. Life is good. Law shcool is over, the bar is behind me, everything is hunky dorey. I find very little to bitch about over on CG . Unfortunately, some people here, perhaps myself included, just make being pissy about everything a true art form.

On this matter though, I must admit, I take some personal offense. I actually like LE. He played with our guild in WoW, and he was a good guy until, of course, he went batshit and left, but at the same time, he is still not a bad guy. We talk on PM about RPGs sometimes, he is almost universally civil at CG, he is smart for a college age kid with a grudge about gaming, and he has certainly never done anythign to me or my cat.

The guy gets a bad rap here, and people, including a moderator, are dumping on him in ways that I just think are classless and mean. There have been other members of GG, OO, and CG that deserve far more scorn than he. Maybe he was such a dick that he deserved to be banned here, but I don't recall him creating an alt to come back, sending people dirty pictures, hounding the boards like U2K or anything like that.

In all honesty I never envisioned myself being anyone's defender, but for the love of god sometimes someone has to step in and say yeah-I know we are all just too damned cool for school here, but give the kid a break.

If this makes no sense, blame it on Kathode and the shitty bar in Adams Morgan. Goddamn I told him I wanted to go to Bethesda, but nooo, we had to go to adams morgan.

[baron calamity]

Probably going to get hit by lighting but the reason why LE and others cause less trouble on CG is there is less traffic in their forums.

[RunningMn9]

The guy gets a bad rap here, and people, including a moderator, are dumping on him in ways that I just think are classless and mean. There have been other members of GG, OO, and CG that deserve far more scorn than he. Maybe he was such a dick that he deserved to be banned here, but I don't recall him creating an alt to come back, sending people dirty pictures, hounding the boards like U2K or anything like that.

He gets the rap that he earned.

Now, I certainly agree that there have been worse offenders, most of which whose names we don't speak anymore. But if you're making a top 5 list, I would wager that LE would make it more often than not.

[Blackhawk]

The guy gets a bad rap here, and people, including a moderator, are dumping on him in ways that I just think are classless and mean.

You're right - from an official standpoint, I shouldn't have started that. On the other hand, as part of his last fling, the fellow decided to go gunning for me personally. Don't expect me to pat him on the back because he hasn't been an ass everywhere else - he's permanently worn out his welcome with me.

[The Meal]

His OO piss-fest on CG would basically guarantee that he'd never be welcome here without a quantum change in his posting style. He was pretty heavy into revisionist history and his attempts to manipulate the common recollection as to how things went down would basically ensure that he'd have few champions among those who ultimately make decisions. I'm not about to go through CG's wealth of locked threads from October and November of last year, but his text speaks for itself.

The bummer is that for the most part, I thought he was above that. Prior to that particular outburst, I thought he was excellent at sticking to tight arguments (with the only shortcoming being that of omission of the other side of the argument). When he flat out lied (and didn't really try to hard to make the lies all that clever), I pretty much released any desire I had to defend him. So the bummer was that he caught me off guard with what I had thought was uncharacteristic behavior. It tainted a lot of my feelings with regards to his opinion on other topics.

He seems to be doing well over at CG, however, and for that I wish him all the best. I'm not a spiteful person in general, until folks make things personal (threats against my family, etc.). I have a long memory, but am generally forgiving.

~Neal

[dbt1949]

Weren't m ost of the problems between him and DS? At least that's all I ever remember.

[warning]

Weren't m ost of the problems between him and DS? At least that's all I ever remember.

That had been a big problem but he really went apeshit when Bethseda got the license for Fallout. Crazy as it sounds he flipped his lid and got banned from Quarter to Three (for his outbursts over that in particular) and GoneGold within about a month after that.

He's a strangely passionate young man. At his age I felt pretty strongly about Pop-Tarts.

I've probably traded games with him about a dozen times over the years and he's always very personable and courteous.

[Rincewind]

His OO piss-fest on CG would basically guarantee that he'd never be welcome here without a quantum change in his posting style. He was pretty heavy into revisionist history and his attempts to manipulate the common recollection as to how things went down would basically ensure that he'd have few champions among those who ultimately make decisions. I'm not about to go through CG's wealth of locked threads from October and November of last year, but his text speaks for itself.

The bummer is that for the most part, I thought he was above that. Prior to that particular outburst, I thought he was excellent at sticking to tight arguments (with the only shortcoming being that of omission of the other side of the argument). When he flat out lied (and didn't really try to hard to make the lies all that clever), I pretty much released any desire I had to defend him. So the bummer was that he caught me off guard with what I had thought was uncharacteristic behavior. It tainted a lot of my feelings with regards to his opinion on other topics.

He seems to be doing well over at CG, however, and for that I wish him all the best. I'm not a spiteful person in general, until folks make things personal (threats against my family, etc.). I have a long memory, but am generally forgiving.

~Neal

Meal you know I always respect your well though out opinions on these types of issues. But my dilemma is this-in a time when we have U2K style trolls, Crowley-esque posters, even old regulars that go batshit insane or stage fake fights on the forums (and YK is one of my favorite people, he really is) and all sorts of other shennanimockerisms, isn't there some sort of odd prejudicial judging of LE for what was a fairly isolated and yes, completely irrational outburst of anger? If he had been part of the "in" crowd-and I know you dislike that line of thinking, but bear with me-I feel that he would have gotten a stern talking to from the mods, some shit from the people he let down on the forums, and then probably the whole thing would have blown over. Since he was more of a fringe guy, choosing his passionate battles in Games rather than Religion&Politics, it felt like he was dealt with more harshly (and seriously, for the love of god there is some nasty, mean, and downright batshit insane explosions in R&P every other week). So..yeah, I don't know, I guess I am just trying to say maybe he gets a bad rap.

BH-I have no idea what the PMs or anything are. LE knows I think he goes wacko sometimes, and I certainly don't approve of personal attacks-either way, I was not trying to comment on anything that went on privately between you two or make light of it.

Still, the agreement from others on the whole syphillis thing smacked of drama as well (and I guess, to be fair, in a way so does my seemingly odd advocacy in this thread).

[RunningMn9]

isn't there some sort of odd prejudicial judging of LE for what was a fairly isolated and yes, completely irrational outburst of anger?

By my recollection, it wasn't "fairly isolated", it was routine. The one that sticks out most for me isn't even one that's been mentioned here, which was his asshatitude during the Great R&P Schism(tm). I don't have any recollections of him NOT going apeshit.

[Mr. Fed]

The fabled Third Age was shorter than anticipated.

[Smoove_B]

The fabled Third Age was shorter than anticipated.

No one expects the end of the 3rd age.

[triggercut]

isn't there some sort of odd prejudicial judging of LE for what was a fairly isolated and yes, completely irrational outburst of anger?

By my recollection, it wasn't "fairly isolated", it was routine. The one that sticks out most for me isn't even one that's been mentioned here, which was his asshatitude during the Great R&P Schism(tm). I don't have any recollections of him NOT going apeshit.

He was also banned from Qt3 for similar apeshit-goingness, after being asked to knock it off and then being warned that stepping over the line drawn by the siteowners there would result in a banning.

Isolated? No, not really.

[The Meal]

Not to pile on, but had his behavior been isolated, then likely he'd have been given multiple chances before finally being excused from the forums. As it was, his behavior was a repeated pattern, and one that it was ultimately determined to not be of benefit to the community.

We tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt (as evidenced by folks calling out for us to ban certain posters and getting exceptionally grumpy when we don't do so on their own personal timelines). -LE-, in the minds of many, was given that benefit of the doubt for too long. In the minds of others, he was unfairly banned. Many opinions will fall somewhere between those two extremes.

Rincewind, I have the feeling that were you able to access the history of the GG posts, you'd actually come down on the side that we waited too long before finally banning -LE-.

Being a smug poster won't get you the door. Self-confidence is not a banning offense. (See: Kobra.) Not following the few rules of the forum, however, after having them read to you (because of transgressions) countless times, and showing zero chance of fixing that behavior in the future, however, leads to an inevitable situation.

Anyway... I really don't feel the need to participate in this particular drama. Were the old threads available to actually peruse, then maybe I could make a decent point here.

~Neal

[Grifman]

Talk about a drama queen.

Well, he is just a teen age kid

That was part of the problem, the "know-it-all-I-am-right-and-anyone-who-disagrees-with-me-is-stupid" attitude that he had, that eventually erupted from him when people just wouldn't lie down for him. It got tiresome pretty quick.

[Grifman]

. . . isn't there some sort of odd prejudicial judging of LE for what was a fairly isolated and yes, completely irrational outburst of anger?

It wasn't isolated, it was a regular occurence, and though you couldn't predict it, sometime s in a thread you got the idea that this was going to be the next one.

Since he was more of a fringe guy, choosing his passionate battles in Games rather than Religion&Politics, it felt like he was dealt with more harshly

Actually, he was also very anti-religious, posted in R&P a fair amount, and got in trouble for a number anti-religious statements over there that ventured into the "hate speech" category. I seem to remember one where he said the world would be better off if all the Christians were just killed or something like that.

I don't know where you are getting your "facts" from - LE himself? - but you don't seem to have the whole picture of his activities by any means.

[ChrisGwinn]

God help me, but you guys give LE a ridiculously hard time for not much of a reason. He has been absolutely nothing but pleasant for many, many months at CG. I think comparing him to Crowley is a bit much.

His presence at CG (along with a few other posters who have been banned here) is one of the major reasons I've largely stopped reading/posting at CG. When I did that, I didn't even know he was banned here or at gonegold.

I'm more annoyed by LE than the U2ks/crowleys/whatever because he's harder for me to avoid, and he fails to be entertaining. I can stay out of the crazy people's topics, but LE inevitable showed up in topics I was interested in discussing and spewed crap everywhere.

[Peacedog]

It wasn't isolated, it was a regular occurence, and though you couldn't predict it, sometime s in a thread you got the idea that this was going to be the next one.

It was a very safe bet to predict he'd try to start something in a "Derek Smart" thread. Or in threads very, very, distantly related to some subject that Smart was relevant to, topically. There were other subjects that seemed to make threads more likely "he's going to push buttons here, if not go batshit".

I'm more annoyed by LE than the U2ks/crowleys/whatever because he's harder for me to avoid, and he fails to be entertaining. I can stay out of the crazy people's topics, but LE inevitable showed up in topics I was interested in discussing and spewed crap everywhere.

Differnet people have different tastes/thresholds/etc, but LE was far more of a problem poster in the classic sense. I'm talking humber of times he stepped into a thread and started insulting someone or the like. Far more so than U2k.

[msurby]

If he had been part of the "in" crowd-and I know you dislike that line of thinking, but bear with me-I feel that he would have gotten a stern talking to from the mods, some shit from the people he let down on the forums, and then probably the whole thing would have blown over.

Want to know the key to being part of the "in" crowd?

When somebody tells you that you have stepped over the line you accept it and move on, maybe even apologize.

Imagine that...

[Smoove_B]

Want to know the key to being part of the "in" crowd?

When somebody tells you that you have stepped over the line you accept it and move on, maybe even apologize.

Imagine that...

You know...in all of my time with GG and now OO ('99 or 00), I don't think I've ever read a more true statement about posting than what you've just typed.

[Bad Demographic]

If he had been part of the "in" crowd-and I know you dislike that line of thinking, but bear with me-I feel that he would have gotten a stern talking to from the mods, some shit from the people he let down on the forums, and then probably the whole thing would have blown over.

He DID get a stern talking to from the mods and the admins. Several times. He got temp-banned several times -- and he got way more chances than most people. Just because something's not happening publicly doesn't mean *nothing* is happening. Usually if somebody is close to being temp-banned, mod/admin contact is done privately, not publicly. It's extremely rare for somebody to even get temp-banned without being contacted and asked to modify his/her behavior *before* the person is temp-banned.

[Suitably Ironic Moniker]

Want to know the key to being part of the "in" crowd?

When somebody tells you that you have stepped over the line you accept it and move on, maybe even apologize.

Imagine that...

You know...in all of my time with GG and now OO ('99 or 00), I don't think I've ever read a more true statement about posting than what you've just typed.

He forgot to add "Don't flirt with Captain Caveman's gay horse lover".

[Peacedog]

You know...in all of my time with GG and now OO ('99 or 00), I don't think I've ever read a more true statement about posting than what you've just typed.

Ultimately, that's always what it boils down to in the end. The people who got off to rough starts here, but ultimately did this, are still here.

You're both right, in any case. His not being here is not due to some sort of specific popularity criterion. Believe me, we exhausted our patience and then some.

He DID get a stern talking to from the mods and the admins. Several times. He got temp-banned several times -- and he got way more chances than most people. Just because something's not happening publicly doesn't mean *nothing* is happening. Usually if somebody is close to being temp-banned, mod/admin contact is done privately, not publicly. It's extremely rare for somebody to even get temp-banned without being contacted and asked to modify his/her behavior *before* the person is temp-banned.

I think it was just the one temp ban.

But he got numerous emails on top of more numerous public comments.

[Stitch]

Just because something's not happening publicly doesn't mean *nothing* is happening.

Out of curiosity, why is banning even made public? I don't think bannings should be swept under the rug, but I find it kind of odd you guys create threads just to announce them.

[The Meal]

Just because something's not happening publicly doesn't mean *nothing* is happening.

Out of curiosity, why is banning even made public? I don't think bannings should be swept under the rug, but I find it kind of odd you guys create threads just to announce them.

The upside is bigger than the downside, although there have been bannings in the past (not on OO, but on the GGF) that have not been made public.

The downside is that it gives folks a chance to "dance on the grave" of the bannee, and that it gives that person some sort of stigma if the banning were only temporary.

The upside is that the community knows what the outcome of unacceptable behavior is, and they know that the moderators aren't just acting willy-nilly with regard to how punishment is meted out.

The one unannounced ban was a situation where "grave dancing" would've been at an all-time high. It's a dirty little secret of moderating (but human nature, unfortunately) that the louder a certain element calls for another poster's head, the more difficult it is for staff to actually follow through with that behavior. In those cases the perception of moderation activities comeing down to some sort of popular typically keeps staff from taking action until some truly earth-shaking over-the-top offense is committed where that person is finally shown the gate. I think as a group staff's got a lot better about this since we've transitioned to OO (and admittedly, there were certain constraints to how things were done on the GGF that do not exist now that we're based on Rip's server), but to some extent that same vibe still exists.

~Neal

[Blackhawk]

There have been a few secondary bannings that went unannounced - when somebody was banned and started making alts right away to cause trouble, we've banned the alts as they appeared without announcing each one.

[Fretmute]

There have been a few secondary bannings that went unannounced - when somebody was banned and started making alts right away to cause trouble, we've banned the alts as they appeared without announcing each one.

This seems to be rampant these days.

[The Meal]

I bet you it goes away as quickly as it came on.

~Neal

[Odin]

I never noticed before how truly irritating the phrase "batshit insane" is until I saw it being used multiple times per post in every post by a particular poster.

Sith