Protests 2024 - Stop Hey What's That Sound...

[Dogstar]

Thought it might not be a bad idea to have a separate thread for protests, both on college campuses and elsewhere (including likely the DNC convention), apart from the Israel/Palestine thread.

In case you're catching up, you'll be intrigued to know that Greg Abbott, Governor of Texas, who signed a law in 2019 protecting free speech on campuses, ordered state troopers in to clear off the pro-Palestinian demonstration at UT-Austin.



Kudos to the photographer for including that sign.



Ohio State helpfully deploying police snipers to watch their student protest/encampment.



The professor, who was arrested along with the chair of the Philosophy Department at the college, was charged with disorderly conduct and "simple battery of a police officer."

[hepcat]

That is unacceptable behavior on the part of the police. Someone needs to get fired over this. You can’t be a good cop AND a thug.

[waitingtoconnect]

I used to work with a guy who was big on student protests e in the Vietnam war. Basically the cops would round them all up violent or not and they’d get put in front of a judge. The cops would state how they were attacked and the judge would jail them for a month.

[Isgrimnur]

Good thing there's more video of these protests than episodes of One Piece.

[GreenGoo]

Good thing there's more video of these protests than episodes of One Piece.

For those not in the know, that's a LOT of video.

[YellowKing]

I'm trying to work my way through One Piece now. Only 1094 episodes left!

Also latest Harvard poll shows that these protest represent only a fraction of young Americans, most of whom don't give a shit one way or the other about this conflict.

[El Guapo]

The song is "stop, *hey*, what's that sound..."

[Isgrimnur]

I'm trying to work my way through One Piece now. Only 1094 episodes left!

Also latest Harvard poll shows that these protest represent only a fraction of young Americans, most of whom don't give a shit one way or the other about this conflict.

As is tradition.

[Dogstar]

The song is "stop, *hey*, what's that sound..."

Fixed. Thanks! I really have mis-heard/mis-remembered that for as long as I've listened to the song.

Also latest Harvard poll shows that these protest represent only a fraction of young Americans, most of whom don't give a shit one way or the other about this conflict.

I wouldn't be surprised that that's true, which makes the overwhelming force deployed against these protests far less understandable.

[Pyperkub]

That is unacceptable behavior on the part of the police. Someone needs to get fired over this. You can’t be a good cop AND a thug.

Republicans believe differently (at least, for anyone they don't like and/or disagree with).

[Isgrimnur]

[LordMortis]

I'm trying to work my way through One Piece now. Only 1094 episodes left!

I'm caught up on dub. It can get pretty long and slow (Especially around the bird cage island) but sometimes it's really good. It picks up a lot around the time the introduce Yamato. I'm this far along, so I'll watch 'til the end.

[Dogstar]

[Pyperkub]

Oh gee. Guess who wants more harsh crackdowns on US protestors...

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu suggested Wednesday that he was dissatisfied with the arrests of hundreds of U.S. college students—some of whom were violently detained by large groups of police officers—in the last week at a growing number of protests against universities' complicity in Israel's massacre of Palestinians in Gaza.

Netanyahu called the students who have set up encampments in solidarity with Palestinians "antisemitic mobs" and accused them of attacking Jewish students and faculty—despite the fact that Jewish organizers have been among those protesting Israel's bombardment of Gaza and demanding a cease-fire.

[Holman]

(Emory is my undergraduate alma mater as well.)

[Victoria Raverna]

Pro-Palestinian protestor at Yale stabbed a Jewish girl's eye with a flag?

https://www.thefp.com/p/i-was-stabbed-i ... ye-at-yale

As I separated from Netanel and tried to walk through, the wall of protest organizers in front of me remained. When I said, “I can walk. I have freedom of movement,” they mocked me: “Do you hear that, everybody? She can walk!”

Before too long, the protesters encircled me in addition to the human blockade. Their arms linked, and they danced in a circle around me so that I was pinned between them, the human blockade, and a wall. Some other demonstrators noticed this and joined in on the taunting.

They pointed their middle fingers at me and yelled “Free Palestine,” and the taunting continued until a six-foot-something male protester holding a Palestinian flag waved the flag in my face and then stabbed me with it in my left eye.

My assailant was masked and wearing a keffiyeh, concealing his identity. He also wore glasses and a black jacket. I started to yell and chase after him, but the wall of students continued to block me as I screamed. Next, I went to the Yale police, but they offered little in the way of assistance. They told me that their orders came from administrators who weren’t present at the demonstration, and that there were only seven officers to handle a crowd of about 500. So I was checked out by an ambulance EMT, who recommended I go to the hospital.

The midnight demonstration, the encampment, the violence, all of it violates Yale policy. Some of it, like my assault, also violates state and federal law. Yet nothing meaningful seems to happen in response. Given Yale’s permissiveness, I had the sinking feeling that someone would get hurt. I just didn’t expect it to be me.

I felt pressure where the stick of the flag had hit my left eye and had a headache last night and much of today. I’m okay now, though. But last night, sitting in the hospital, I couldn’t help but think of my mother, Shahnaz, who grew up in Iran. Her neighbors threw rocks at her for being a Jew. She has a scar on her eyelid to this day.

Warning: eye stabbing scene:

Spoiler:

[Blackhawk]

I made an exception and watched the stabbing video without checking the source. I won't make that mistake again.

What the fuck was that? The whole point was to call her a liar. It's a bullshit video from a bullshit source, and I'm ashamed to see it on OO.

Take your garbage somewhere else.

[Kraken]

This is why I only watch videos featuring cats.

[Victoria Raverna]

I made an exception and watched the stabbing video without checking the source. I won't make that mistake again.

What the fuck was that? The whole point was to call her a liar. It's a bullshit video from a bullshit source, and I'm ashamed to see it on OO.

Take your garbage somewhere else.

BTW, the video of the assault was recorded by herself. It showed that her story was bullshit. Why you're ashamed to see the truth?

She was accidentally hit by the flag but she made it into of being assaulted because she is a Jewish student.

[GreenGoo]

I made an exception and watched the stabbing video without checking the source. I won't make that mistake again.

What the fuck was that? The whole point was to call her a liar. It's a bullshit video from a bullshit source, and I'm ashamed to see it on OO.

Take your garbage somewhere else.

I don't watch New York Post videos or articles. Sometimes I read the headlines, trying to guess what the actual facts are, and then go find out if I'm right or not. Most of the time, the headlines convey the opposite of the facts involved. It's practically like clockwork.

[hepcat]

I made an exception and watched the stabbing video without checking the source. I won't make that mistake again.

What the fuck was that? The whole point was to call her a liar. It's a bullshit video from a bullshit source, and I'm ashamed to see it on OO.

Take your garbage somewhere else.

BTW, the video of the assault was recorded by herself. It showed that her story was bullshit. Why you're ashamed to see the truth?

She was accidentally hit by the flag but she made it into of being assaulted because she is a Jewish student.

Honestly, this video of the protestors physically blocking the path of a Jewish student tells me that the protestors (at least some of them) are guilty of being, in the very least, assholes.



Also, the video purporting to prove she wasn't intentionally stabbed didn't really prove whether she was or not. I'm not saying she was (and let's face it, both sides are guilty of drama to support their viewpoints right now), but I'm also saying that wasn't exactly an "AH HA" type of video like you say it is.

This is why I only watch videos featuring cats.

But not Jewish cats, right!?!

[Zarathud]

An absolutely foreseeable consequence of protesting against Israel while waving a flag on campus, which potentially places liability on the protestor for their “accidental” actions if sued. VR will go to any length to apologize for the actions of the Palestinian protesters. Unsurprising.

[Holman]

Honestly, this video of the protestors physically blocking the path of a Jewish student tells me that the protestors (at least some of them) are guilty of being, in the very least, assholes.

That's absolutely true. But then we live in a world where truly vile assholes can be 2% of the thing and get 98% of the attention. Usually that's *why* they're assholes.

My wife (an administrator at U Penn) spent time walking through Penn's encampment on a couple of different days this week. She found it respectful of others and full of lots of positive energy. Even the boundary between the encampment and the pro-Israeli counter-protest was peaceful.

Police presence was minimal and intentionally low-key (e.g. bike cops instead of stormtroopers, etc).

[Jaymann]

Will she get laser surgery on her eye?

[Victoria Raverna]

An absolutely foreseeable consequence of protesting against Israel while waving a flag on campus, which potentially places liability on the protestor for their “accidental” actions if sued. VR will go to any length to apologize for the actions of the Palestinian protesters. Unsurprising.

But the fact is she was not assaulted and stabbed in the eye because she is Jewish. It was clearly an accident. The protestor is still at fault but not for assaulting her. I think as a good lawyer that you claimed to be, you should understand that but I guess it is more important for you to insult me than to be fair.

[Victoria Raverna]

Also, the video purporting to prove she wasn't intentionally stabbed didn't really prove whether she was or not. I'm not saying she was (and let's face it, both sides are guilty of drama to support their viewpoints right now), but I'm also saying that wasn't exactly an "AH HA" type of video like you say it is.

It was clearly an accident. The protestor waved the flag around and she accidental got hit by it. Far from being assaulted and stabbed in the eye. From her appearance on news media 2 days after the incident. It is clearly that she was not hurt as bad as she made it out to be. She know what she was doing. Get people to be against Pro Palestinian protestors and to silence free speech that she doesn't like.

[hepcat]

I mean, it could be. Or it could just be a video that someone cut off prior to the actual event and presented to support their belief she’s lying. Is there a post somewhere of her pointing to this very video and saying that’s when she believes she was attacked? So far, all I’m seeing is a couple of newscasters ridiculing her and presenting that snippet as their evidence for doing so.

I’m fine with protesting, but I’m also fine with people pointing out when it goes too far. For example, here in Chicago they shut down a major thoroughfare by standing in traffic. I have to wonder how possibly preventing emergency vehicles from getting to people who need them, or preventing an innocent bystander from getting to a job they need to support their family, is helping anyone see their cause in a positive light.

[Dogstar]

Can we avoid the "gotcha" videos/links? The topic and Israel/Palestine topic are tense enough with that.

To VR's point, the whole "stabbing" thing wasn't limited to the New York Post. The incident made the rounds on RedState, TownHall, FreeRepublic, and the list goes on. This was a person fishing for attention, or wanted to generate a supposed data point of hate/violence, and her story was rapidly spread. It's used to demonize the protests and protestors. As Holman noted, there are always going to be assholes that turn up to these things. It doesn't mean the whole protest or cause is invalid.

Per Hepcat, I’m fine with protesting, but I’m also fine with people pointing out when it goes too far. We're probably going to have some different standards for that second part in this group though.

[Kurth]

Honestly, this video of the protestors physically blocking the path of a Jewish student tells me that the protestors (at least some of them) are guilty of being, in the very least, assholes.

That's absolutely true. But then we live in a world where truly vile assholes can be 2% of the thing and get 98% of the attention. Usually that's *why* they're assholes.

My wife (an administrator at U Penn) spent time walking through Penn's encampment on a couple of different days this week. She found it respectful of others and full of lots of positive energy. Even the boundary between the encampment and the pro-Israeli counter-protest was peaceful.

Police presence was minimal and intentionally low-key (e.g. bike cops instead of stormtroopers, etc).

There was a very good piece in the NYT yesterday (or Friday) asking the question, "Why have these protests exploded in the U.S. but generally not overseas?"

The answer was largely that it's a matter of our hyper-partisan political situation and the hyper-partisan and sensational news coverage these protests on U.S. campuses are receiving. Where similar protests occurred in the UK, they didn't receive nearly the attention from the news media and didn't result in an explosion of copy-cat protests and ever escalating tension. The Times referred to it as the "ovation" effect, where protests are analogized to someone giving a standing ovation in a theater. If people in the front of the theater begin to stand, it often results in a mass movement because those behind see them and begin to copy, if for no other reason than there's social pressure to do so.

Protestors overseas have largely been like people giving a standing ovation in the back row. Because they are not getting 24hour news coverage, no one is really seeing them and there's no mounting pressure for others to join.

I'm concerned that the same analysis applies to the violence and anti-semitism embedded in some factions of these protests. The more those anti-semitic actions and chants are given air, the more they may lead to their own ovation effect. I hope that's not the case and things remain largely the way Holman describes at Penn.

[Blackhawk]

I made an exception and watched the stabbing video without checking the source. I won't make that mistake again.

What the fuck was that? The whole point was to call her a liar. It's a bullshit video from a bullshit source, and I'm ashamed to see it on OO.

Take your garbage somewhere else.

BTW, the video of the assault was recorded by herself. It showed that her story was bullshit. Why you're ashamed to see the truth?

She was accidentally hit by the flag but she made it into of being assaulted because she is a Jewish student.

The video was blurry, presented by a questionable source, and cut off in the middle. It was presented in the context of a couple of assholes doing nothing but mocking her. Was she stabbed, or was it an accident in the middle of her being surrounded and blocked in? I don't know. Neither do you. The 'commentators' on that video sure as hell don't. Maybe the context of that video was skewed to promote the presenters' points of view. Maybe she was stabbed. Maybe she got something in her eye and genuinely believed it was intentional. Or maybe she was lying.

Without a lot more information, publicly mocking the victim and calling them a liar is hateful bullshit.

Why you're ashamed to see the truth?

Why you're ashamed to see that you've lost your credibility here? You've got such blinders on that you're promoting hate as much as you're arguing against it, and you're just too damned dense to see it when an entire room full of people keep pointing it out to you. If everyone keeps telling you your fly's open, take a second and check your damned zipper - regardless of what you 'believe.'

And that doesn't even touch on telling me that I should be ashamed for not agreeing with your personal interpretation of a badly skewed video. Do you realize what kind of hubris it takes to say something like that?

Seriously, fuck off with this crap until you get some perspective.

[Holman]

Most of the "encampment" type protests have sprung up in solidarity with the students at Columbia after the U cracked down on them with the NYPD. Had Columbia merely let the encampment run its course (graduation is like two weeks away), the press attention and copycat movements would have been much less intense.

Authorities never learn that arrests and crackdowns *always* inflame things and never suppress them.

Of course I guess I should note too the Columbia's protests (being NYC) attracted a lot of outside agitation on both sides. Nobody was going to let that opportunity pass by.

[LordMortis]

Most of the "encampment" type protests have sprung up in solidarity with the students at Columbia after the U cracked down on them with the NYPD. Had Columbia merely let the encampment run its course (graduate is like two weeks away), the press attention and copycat movements would have been much less intense.

Authorities never learn that arrests and crackdowns *always* inflame things and never suppress them.

Of course I guess I should note too the Columbia's protests (being NYC) attracted a lot of outside agitation on both sides. Nobody was going to the let that opportunity pass by.

There has been lots of press and high roller interest reinforcing each other on this. Mega donors like Bob Kraft and the eyes of donors and wealthy parents through CNBC, which has been looking for more excuses to magnify negative implications of DEI on college campuses for years has been demanding it.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/col ... c-violence

[Zarathud]

It was clearly an accident. The protestor waved the flag around and she accidental got hit by it. Far from being assaulted and stabbed in the eye. From her appearance on news media 2 days after the incident. It is clearly that she was not hurt as bad as she made it out to be. She know what she was doing. Get people to be against Pro Palestinian protestors and to silence free speech that she doesn't like.

Assault is as threatening action, battery is getting hit by another. The protestor waved the flag ... literally in her face but you call it an "accident." Whatever you call it, it's not nothing. The reason police break up protests is so that these situations don't end up with people being hurt.

But internet activists like Victoria Raverna will spin things every which way to minimize their own side's wrongdoing and to silence "free speech that she doesn't like" with YouTube propaganda. So sad.

[Pyperkub]

Honestly, this video of the protestors physically blocking the path of a Jewish student tells me that the protestors (at least some of them) are guilty of being, in the very least, assholes.

That's absolutely true. But then we live in a world where truly vile assholes can be 2% of the thing and get 98% of the attention. Usually that's *why* they're assholes.

My wife (an administrator at U Penn) spent time walking through Penn's encampment on a couple of different days this week. She found it respectful of others and full of lots of positive energy. Even the boundary between the encampment and the pro-Israeli counter-protest was peaceful.

Police presence was minimal and intentionally low-key (e.g. bike cops instead of stormtroopers, etc).

There was a very good piece in the NYT yesterday (or Friday) asking the question, "Why have these protests exploded in the U.S. but generally not overseas?"

The answer was largely that it's a matter of our hyper-partisan political situation and the hyper-partisan and sensational news coverage these protests on U.S. campuses are receiving. Where similar protests occurred in the UK, they didn't receive nearly the attention from the news media and didn't result in an explosion of copy-cat protests and ever escalating tension. The Times referred to it as the "ovation" effect, where protests are analogized to someone giving a standing ovation in a theater. If people in the front of the theater begin to stand, it often results in a mass movement because those behind see them and begin to copy, if for no other reason than there's social pressure to do so.

Protestors overseas have largely been like people giving a standing ovation in the back row. Because they are not getting 24hour news coverage, no one is really seeing them and there's no mounting pressure for others to join.

I'm concerned that the same analysis applies to the violence and anti-semitism embedded in some factions of these protests. The more those anti-semitic actions and chants are given air, the more they may lead to their own ovation effect. I hope that's not the case and things remain largely the way Holman describes at Penn.

Helsinki

https://files.mastodon.social/cache/med ... b846e2.mp4

[Kraken]

This is why I only watch videos featuring cats.

But not Jewish cats, right!?!

Only when they're chasing space lasers.

[Grifman]

The professor, who was arrested along with the chair of the Philosophy Department at the college, was charged with disorderly conduct and "simple battery of a police officer."

I can tell you that if police are in the process of restraining someone, and you come up on police like that and get in their business, you will get arrested. She got too close to those officers while they were arresting someone who was resisting, and then she moved in even closer. They don't know who she is or what her intentions are. That will get your arrested.

[Grifman]

The student, Khymani James, made the comments during and after a disciplinary hearing with Columbia administrators that he recorded and then posted on Instagram.

The hearing, conducted by an administrator of the university’s Center for Student Success and Intervention, was focused on an earlier comment he shared on social media, in which he discussed fighting a Zionist. “I don’t fight to injure or for there to be a winner or a loser, I fight to kill,” he wrote.

A Columbia administrator asked, “Do you see why that is problematic in any way?”

Mr. James replied, “No.”

He also compared Zionists to white supremacists and Nazis. “These are all the same people,” he said. “The existence of them and the projects they have built, i.e. Israel, it’s all antithetical to peace. It’s all antithetical to peace. And so, yes, I feel very comfortable, very comfortable, calling for those people to die.”

The crazy thing this only came out after he posted the video on Instagram. He obviously was totally blind as to how others outside the circle of protest (who he was probably trying to impress) would see this.

Addendum: After this, Columbia took no steps to discipline him, they only moved after he posted this video and people discovered it. This is part of the problem, schools let this kind of hatred fester and grow. He should have been dismissed after the hearing.

[hepcat]

I can tell you that if police are in the process of restraining someone, and you come up on police like that and get in their business, you will get arrested. She got too close to those officers while they were arresting someone who was resisting, and then she moved in even closer. They don't know who she is or what her intentions are. That will get your arrested.

Arrested is one thing. Physically beaten is another. No, there was no excuse for this shit. They're cops there to keep the peace, not friggin' swat responding to a firefight.

That was an uncalled for reaction on the cop's part.

[Blackhawk]

I can tell you that if police are in the process of restraining someone, and you come up on police like that and get in their business, you will get arrested. She got too close to those officers while they were arresting someone who was resisting, and then she moved in even closer. They don't know who she is or what her intentions are. That will get your arrested.

There is truth to this. Cops often go too far. It's common. But not everything cops do that pisses people off is really what it's made out to be. If you're surrounded by hundreds of pissed off people and are in the middle of a physical struggle with someone, then someone else comes up and shouts at you from within arm's reach, that person is a danger to you. You either make them back off, or you restrain them.

[Victoria Raverna]

The video was blurry, presented by a questionable source, and cut off in the middle.

The video was from her own blog. Posted by herself. It cut off because of she got hit (stabbed in the eye?) by the flag.