LotR:BfME or DoW?

Zekester · Post by **Zekester** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:28 pm

Ok I just won $40 last night at a company party, and plan on buying either Battle for Middle Earth or Dawn of War.

Which is the better money spent?

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:35 pm

The Lord of the Ring one doesn't interest me but I do have the DOW one,and altho a little fast for me it's not too bad.The units are really cool.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:51 pm

BFME is cute but stupid. I think it deserves some award for the wonderful graphics and sound, but there is absolutely nothing else to it.

Orpheo · Post by **Orpheo** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:09 pm

They're both good, but if you're only getting one, then definitely get DoW.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:23 pm

both games have shitty single player components, but both games rock in their multiplayer modes. Now it's a matter of the style/setting you like. DOW is more fast paced, whereas BFME is much slower, with a familiar setting.

Zekester · Post by **Zekester** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:57 pm

Well, it will be for single-player only.

And I definately prefer a slower pace. Can DoW be played slower?

I also prefer a good skirmish mode.

jonsauce · Post by **jonsauce** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:27 pm

You can get DoW from www.gogamer.com for $28 for the next 3 days if that interestes you at all.

Turtle · Post by **Turtle** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:02 pm

From what I'm hearing, BFME has a great single player game, with many scripted missions and the like. However the strategy isn't quite there. I haven't heard much on the skirmish play since there's likely a lot more strategy when fighting another human. It does have a great presentation of the SP campaign.

DoW, one that I've actually played, has a somewhat poor SP campaign, you only play one faction, Space Marines. However, I hear many people are still happy with the SP campaign. The AI can be great and mediocre in different situations, however in multiplayer and skirmish the game is great. This is coming from someone who played nothing except DoW multiplayer when the beta was going on.

rrmorton · Post by **rrmorton** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:26 pm

I've been addicted to Kohan II since I first got it.

I like Dawn of War quite a bit.

Haven't tried Battle for Middle-earth.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:05 am

Zekester: In DoW, you can adjust the game speed, but only in skirmish/multiplayer to my knowledge.

Otherwise, skirmish mode is pretty fun. AI's challenging but like any other, you'll figure it out to some extent after a while. The SP campaign is "okay" but by far not the selling point of the product.

I'd get DoW over BFME any day, mainly cus if I wanted a $50 terrarium, I'd just go buy and set up a fishtank.

Hetz · Post by **Hetz** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:08 am

naednek wrote:both games have shitty single player components, but both games rock in their multiplayer modes. Now it's a matter of the style/setting you like. DOW is more fast paced, whereas BFME is much slower, with a familiar setting.

Huh? I think BFME's single player is much more impressive than DOW. BFME's single player is much stronger than the multiplayer, in my opinion.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:22 pm

both single player campaigs are really not that good. BFME has something going for it, a recognizable story and good voice acting, unlike DOW where it was all a mess. Still I maintain, multiplayer in both games is where it's at

GungHo · Post by **GungHo** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:21 am

naednek wrote:both single player campaigs are really not that good. BFME has something going for it, a recognizable story and good voice acting, unlike DOW where it was all a mess. Still I maintain, multiplayer in both games is where it's at

Totally disagree with ya Ken, but thats what the Internet is for... Im having a blast with BFME's SP game, but I can definitely see the MP being very weak. The "unit balancing" consists of rock-paper-scissors, and rushing is *the key* to winning. Not much new or exciting there.

As for DoW, my opinion was that it was just a whole lot of MOTS. Im sure it's a 'good' RTS, but after about 2 hours with the demo, I was pretty damn sure I'd already played that game at least a half a hundred times.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:43 am

Everything about DOW is rushing. You build masses amount of armies, reinforce them, and send them on their way. That game took rushing to a whole new level.

As far as the Rock Paper Sissors statement, that's been a key ingredient in RTS games since Age of Empires.

RTS are in a rut, they have been for the last 5 years. What's different about them now from 5 years ago is the setting and the presentation, gameplay is still stale as ever.

GungHo · Post by **GungHo** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:13 am

naednek wrote:Everything about DOW is rushing. You build masses amount of armies, reinforce them, and send them on their way. That game took rushing to a whole new level.

As far as the Rock Paper Sissors statement, that's been a key ingredient in RTS games since Age of Empires.

RTS are in a rut, they have been for the last 5 years. What's different about them now from 5 years ago is the setting and the presentation, gameplay is still stale as ever.

Oh yeah, I totally agree. But in BFME the unit types are so limited, literally there are footmen, archers and cavalry, that it almost feels like playing rock-paper-scissors. At least in 'more advanced' RTSes(es?) like Rome:Total War, the # and types of units are so varied that I dont get the same feeling I have playing BFME.

I think where BFME really shines is the SP campaign. It's presented very, very well, and the immersion factor is very high. INcluding cut scenes from the movie is a cool touch, IMO.

Think I said this in another thread, but I wouldnt have bought BFME if it wasnt for the fact that it is LotR, with me as the star. FOrtunately, they pull it off really well, and for me, make it a game worth having. But that's the only reason to own it, IMHO.

DoW on the other hand, while being 'deeper'(more and more varied units and better AI), doesnt have the gripping story or backdrop that makes it worth drudging through another same ole same ole RTS. FOr me anyways.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:28 am

I guess I'm in the minority - I still like RTS. Yes, I don't play skirmish mode games as much as I used to, but I can't resist playing a new campaign when an RTS comes out

As for the question - I'm enjoying the campaign of BfME more than the campaign for DoW (but then I'm a big fan of the movies and this is like being in the movies) but I think I'd enjoy the skirmish mode and multiplayer of DoW more.

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:29 pm

Did they just come out with a RTS set in LOTR's universe? Why another one so soon?

SuperHiro · Post by **SuperHiro** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:19 pm

Alright I can't resist anymore.

To answer Dirt's question. Yes there are two LOTR RTS's out. One is made my Liquid Entertainment (who made Battle Realms) and is based on the book properties. The other is made by EA (which is BFME), and is based solely on the movies (they use movie pictures, movie music, bascially they can't refer to anything in the books at all). The RTS made by Liquid is a shallow WCIII clone. BFME is clearly the better LOTR RTS. If you absolutely have to chose, chose BFME.

As for BFME vs. DOW... well I'm a total DoW person so let me give DoW a shout out.

True, DoW is a rush game, but what RTS isn't? I played many games in the open beta with GGers and there was very little rushing. DoW is at it's best played at a slow pace, with people you know. With the control points, the game really takes on an ebb and flow pace. I cannot describe in words how ridiculously fun it is to desperate pull together your units to make a last gasp stand at your enemie's control point, only to stave off defeat. It's even better with team games. Also, the Army Painter goes a LONG way for me (being a customization whore). You can chose the colors of your army (chosing from premade colors or inputting RGB codes), and make custom badges/banners for your team. MP is a problem for me now. There's not that much GG/CG/OO people on anymore (if at all). And if you play random people you're going to run into people using Nazi stuff... which disturbs me on many levels.

For SP-only, I would give the advantage to BFME. But if you're interested in multiplay at all, then DoW is by far the better game. You can expect greater support for DoW if company history is any indication.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:03 pm

Hiro, I've seen you on IRC. There is absolutely no excuse for us not getting in some DoW action (well, this week there is - final exams and such).

But soon!

philosophist · Post by **philosophist** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:31 pm

My 9-year old son (who currently loves Stronghold but is sometimes overwhelmed by the complexity) saw a demo of BFME and was beside himself with excitement; it's all he talked about for days. So, I figured I'd pick it up for him as a xmas present. However, I was a little concerned that the game would be too complex for him, but after reading initial complaints of the game being too easy, I'm hoping this will be a great introduction to the RTS genre. Do ya'll think this game is approachable for a (fairly advanced) 9 year old?

Orpheo · Post by **Orpheo** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:37 pm

Yes, definitely. The game really is very very simple. If it didn't pull off the LOTRness so well, I don't think I would like it. But it does pull it off well.

SuperHiro · Post by **SuperHiro** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:40 pm

philosophist wrote:My 9-year old son (who currently loves Stronghold but is sometimes overwhelmed by the complexity) saw a demo of BFME and was beside himself with excitement; it's all he talked about for days. So, I figured I'd pick it up for him as a xmas present. However, I was a little concerned that the game would be too complex for him, but after reading initial complaints of the game being too easy, I'm hoping this will be a great introduction to the RTS genre. Do ya'll think this game is approachable for a (fairly advanced) 9 year old?

I researched the crap out of this game before I made my decision not to get it. It's definitely MOTS and would make a really good introduction.

IMO, the best RTS for newbies would be WCIII.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:01 pm

Only if he has other people to play against, honestly. The WCIII AI is definitely the toughest I've ever encountered in an RTS and I have a feeling a 9-year-old would get smoked by it pretty badly, even on easy. Just ask Exrod (who teamed up against an easy level AI with his wife and lost).

Zekester · Post by **Zekester** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:20 pm

Yeah, I agree with Jow....there's just too much going on with WCIII for a 9-yr old.

As far as which game to buy, I haven't made up my mind yet and still have the 40 bucks

Maybe by the time I decide, the prices will come down

I do like the idea of the LotR world, but I don't usually play campaigns in RTS's

Is there a demo planned for BfME?

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:03 pm

I'm sorry to hear Liquid's version is the worse of the 2. I love Battle Realms.

knob · Post by **knob** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:36 pm

SuperHiro wrote:
philosophist wrote:My 9-year old son (who currently loves Stronghold but is sometimes overwhelmed by the complexity) saw a demo of BFME and was beside himself with excitement; it's all he talked about for days. So, I figured I'd pick it up for him as a xmas present. However, I was a little concerned that the game would be too complex for him, but after reading initial complaints of the game being too easy, I'm hoping this will be a great introduction to the RTS genre. Do ya'll think this game is approachable for a (fairly advanced) 9 year old?
I researched the crap out of this game before I made my decision not to get it. It's definitely MOTS and would make a really good introduction.

IMO, the best RTS for newbies would be WCIII.

Do you really think a 9 year old kid cares if it's more of the same?

SuperHiro · Post by **SuperHiro** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:47 pm

Valael wrote:
SuperHiro wrote:
philosophist wrote:My 9-year old son (who currently loves Stronghold but is sometimes overwhelmed by the complexity) saw a demo of BFME and was beside himself with excitement; it's all he talked about for days. So, I figured I'd pick it up for him as a xmas present. However, I was a little concerned that the game would be too complex for him, but after reading initial complaints of the game being too easy, I'm hoping this will be a great introduction to the RTS genre. Do ya'll think this game is approachable for a (fairly advanced) 9 year old?
I researched the crap out of this game before I made my decision not to get it. It's definitely MOTS and would make a really good introduction.

IMO, the best RTS for newbies would be WCIII.
Do you really think a 9 year old kid cares if it's more of the same?

I meant MOTS as in familiar mechanics/game strategy/etc. etc... so generally it's easy to pick up and/or help someone pick it up. The game doesn't throw a monkey wrench at you in terms of gameplay (like Kohan or the Total War series did).

In other news, Dawn of War's 1.2 patch is out. They fixed the Seer Council bug and did some stuff with the Chaos taint and online lobby (nothing outstanding though). Also they added a new 1v1 and 3v3 map (with some new textures). That makes two patches since Dawn of War first came out in September. Do you think BFME will get that same level of support?

A 9-year-old probably won't care though.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:09 pm

DoW got #7 on Gamespy's top 10 of the year.

These are the same people, though, that voted Sims 2 as "best strategy" GOTY. Uh, what?

Haven't messed with the patch. What is this Chaos taint business they're referring to? (don't play as Chaos very often)

Sorry about hijacking the BFME thread.