The Global Warming Thread

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed May 31, 2017 8:15 am

Trump is on a roll this morning, deciding that he's pulling the US out of the Paris Climate Agreement.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed May 31, 2017 8:24 am

The master negotiator at work again. Announcing you are leaving 2.5 years ahead of when you can actually leave gives you absolutely no leverage to change the conversation. On the other hand they already know he is a fucking moron and the United States is unstable and unreliable so perhaps it doesn't matter. All hail the Lord of Chaos!

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed May 31, 2017 8:27 am

You're assuming he wants leverage or is interested in changing the conversation. The "art of the deal" in this situation is that he's able to brag to the donors packing his rallies that he's stiggin it to the lazy Europeans that are trying to harm American businesses.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed May 31, 2017 8:28 am

Taking a bold stand for strong modern industry alongside Nicaragua and Syria and literally no one else.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed May 31, 2017 8:33 am

Trump at least can take comfort in knowing he is giving away the future to his fellow authoritarians in China while also sticking it to those commies in Europe.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Wed May 31, 2017 8:47 am

pr0ner wrote:Trump is on a roll this morning, deciding that he's pulling the US out of the Paris Climate Agreement.

Fuck fuck fuck. So fucking stupid. Fuck.

Also fuck anyone who voted for the Green Party. Great job.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed May 31, 2017 8:51 am

In Trump's defense, he did go outside this morning and checked. Everything seemed okay. Not too cold, not too hot. Just about right for this time of the year. So...SCIENCE!

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:01 am

Captain Caveman wrote:Also fuck anyone who voted for the Green Party. Great job.

In a regular election - probably a who cares but with Trump on the line. Fucking morons begat the ultimate fucking moron.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:10 am

I'm sitting here with my 1-year-old daughter just shaking my head and feeling so sad.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed May 31, 2017 10:58 am

At least my daughter's strong swimming skills will serve her well in our water world future.

One ray of hope is that the reporting I am seeing is that it is "likely" that Trump will pull the U.S. out of the Paris Accord. Still possible that it gets reversed, if one of the Accord supporters within the administration can be the last person to talk to him before something official goes out.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed May 31, 2017 11:01 am

The White House is dangling hope in front of people by stating any decision being reported isn't official until it's actually announced. I wonder if he's trying to gauge the reception before really making a decision. Or if he believes this can be a bargaining tool.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed May 31, 2017 11:14 am

I just can't believe how much power we have imbued in a fucking moron of a random noise generator. Put aside climate change. Pulling out of the deal has almost no upside other than rewarding the mushy brained out in the populace. Which is unfortunately pretty much all Trump cares about.

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Wed May 31, 2017 11:17 am

hepcat wrote:In Trump's defense, he did go outside this morning and checked. Everything seemed okay. Not too cold, not too hot. Just about right for this time of the year. So...SCIENCE!

There's no way he went out this morning. It was ugly humid here. Unless they AC the white house lawn?

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Wed May 31, 2017 11:18 am

I'm sure that *THIS* time, he's given it quite a bit of thought and considered all the possibilities and has done his homework on understanding the underlying issues. I'm sure that *THIS* time wasn't the result of his internal random number generator coming up snake eyes.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed May 31, 2017 11:23 am

hepcat wrote:The White House is dangling hope in front of people by stating any decision being reported isn't official until it's actually announced. I wonder if he's trying to gauge the reception before really making a decision. Or if he believes this can be a bargaining tool.

A few possibilities:

(1) Trump wants to withdraw from the accord, and is dangling it to evaluate the political blowback;

(2) Trump wants to withdraw from the accord, and some pro-accord individual within the administration is leaking that in order to try to generate blowback / pressure that could persuade Trump to stay in the accord;

(3) monkeys flinging poo at the wall.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed May 31, 2017 11:26 am

El Guapo wrote:(1) Trump wants to withdraw from the accord, and is dangling it to evaluate whether he'll get the praise he craves for doing it

Mortoned

(2) Trump wants to withdraw from the accord, and some pro-accord individual within the administration is leaking that in order to try to generate blowback / pressure that could persuade Trump to stay in the accord;

The Winner but only works if they also ingratiate him by convincing him he'll be saving the world personally by not leaving.

(3) monkeys flinging poo at the wall.

A given at this point.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed May 31, 2017 12:50 pm

pr0ner wrote:Trump is on a roll this morning, deciding that he's pulling the US out of the Paris Climate Agreement.

This guy frequently reminds me of my late MIL: Whenever confronted with two options, she invariably chose the wrong one. Plus, she was demented.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed May 31, 2017 1:01 pm

We forget how bad the US air and water was before the EPA took action. We are still cleaning up the damage from pollution in the Great Lakes and elsewhere, and it took decades to reduce the acid rain and curb ozone depletion.

Trump's legacy will be death now and in the future. Not winning.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed May 31, 2017 1:15 pm

Based on his personality and past conduct, Trump will pull out of the Paris Agreement purely out of spite that the Eurotrash elites are saying not nice things about him. If they wanted him to play nice, they should have taken a cue from the Saudis. Those guys knew exactly how to fluff his ego, and it paid off bigly.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed May 31, 2017 1:27 pm

Max Peck wrote:Based on his personality and past conduct, Trump will pull out of the Paris Agreement purely out of spite that the Eurotrash elites are saying not nice things about him. If they wanted him to play nice, they should have taken a cue from the Saudis. Those guys knew exactly how to fluff his ego, and it paid off bigly.

I wish they had - they mishandled him. They know he is a narcissistic piece of shit. But he still is our President. They could have played into his fantasies of greatness and felt dirty. But at least they'd preserve order. But then again he was throwing shit in their faces - they have political considerations of their own to deal with. A tough situation. The Saudis in comparison are autocratic. They don't have to care about the man on the street as much.

There is an "interesting" angle. That Merkel as effective leader of Europe knew she could drive a wedge by poking at him intentionally. He is so obviously manipulable after all because he is a known fucking moron. Still I can't imagine Merkel wanted to throw away the alliance; it seems very unlikely.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Wed May 31, 2017 1:31 pm

malchior wrote:
Max Peck wrote:Based on his personality and past conduct, Trump will pull out of the Paris Agreement purely out of spite that the Eurotrash elites are saying not nice things about him. If they wanted him to play nice, they should have taken a cue from the Saudis. Those guys knew exactly how to fluff his ego, and it paid off bigly.
I wish they had - they mishandled him. They know he is a narcissistic piece of shit. But he still is our President. They could have played into his fantasies of greatness and felt dirty. But at least they'd preserve order. But then again he was throwing shit in their faces - they have political considerations of their own to deal with. A tough situation. The Saudis in comparison are autocratic. They don't have to care about the man on the street as much.

There is an "interesting" angle. That Merkel as effective leader of Europe knew she could drive a wedge by poking at him intentionally. He is so obviously manipulable after all because he is a known fucking moron. Still I can't imagine Merkel wanted to throw away the alliance; it seems very unlikely.

Europe will be fine and they know it, they don't need Trump to survive.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed May 31, 2017 1:38 pm

Apparently Trump is still deciding on pulling out up to the last minute. Elon Musk, Tim Cook and other CEOs are calling him today to beg him to stay in. It's not just the horrific environmental legacy it will leave for future generations, he is also gifting the new energy economy to the major powers that stay in the agreement. Say goodbye to yet more American hegemony thanks to this dumpster fire.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed May 31, 2017 1:40 pm

Maybe this was all just a way for him to get celebrities to call and beg him to reconsider? Not only will he get their cell phone numbers but it strokes his ego as well.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed May 31, 2017 2:22 pm

And then there's this:

An activist shareholder proposal seeking to have ExxonMobil (XOM) produce a report on the impacts of "technological advances" and "climate change policy" on its oil and gas reserves received the backing of a majority of participating shares at the company's annual meeting Wednesday, a major blow to the energy behemoth and one that suggests it will need to respond in some way in the coming weeks.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed May 31, 2017 7:13 pm

Elon Musk is now saying he will quit the Trump business council if Trump leaves the Paris climate deal.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Wed May 31, 2017 7:29 pm

Don't worry http://www.climatecentral.org/news/firs ... live-21494

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:11 pm

em2nought wrote:Don't worry http://www.climatecentral.org/news/firs ... live-21494

1% of yearly global carbon emissions by 2025 would be a huge achievement, but in the context of climate change it's not any silver bullet. Regardless, Trump's actions mean it will be more foreign companies like the Swiss one you link making bank on these technologies leading us to a reduced carbon footprint and the US will miss major economic opportunities. Winning!

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:19 pm

The rest of the world takes climate seriously enough that they'll invest in real tech to deal with it.

The windfall will be theirs, and they'll be colonizing Europa the day we dig our last scrap of coal.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:29 pm

The country that figures out nuclear fusion as a viable power source wins everything, in my opinion.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:54 pm

In the context of climate change I still think we need to continue research and development of fission, but obviously there are huge issues (not to mention recent bankruptcies heh). I definitely part company from my friend who just penned an article for Foreign Affairs arguing nuclear power is the answer for peace in North Korea.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Wed May 31, 2017 11:20 pm

Holman wrote:The rest of the world takes climate seriously enough that they'll invest in real tech to deal with it.

The windfall will be theirs, and they'll be colonizing Europa the day we dig our last scrap of coal.

The USN has known how to scrub CO2 from the air for over fifty years.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed May 31, 2017 11:30 pm

pr0ner wrote:The country that figures out nuclear fusion as a viable power source wins everything, in my opinion.

t
This but solar/wind will make you incredibly wealthy.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:54 am

em2nought wrote:
Holman wrote:The rest of the world takes climate seriously enough that they'll invest in real tech to deal with it.

The windfall will be theirs, and they'll be colonizing Europa the day we dig our last scrap of coal.
The USN has known how to scrub CO2 from the air for over fifty years.

Doesn't make it disappear though.

Once you have a bunch of CO2 rich monoethanolamine, then what?

NASA has RCRS, but I am sure that doesn't scale for shit.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:10 am

Rip wrote:
em2nought wrote:
Holman wrote:The rest of the world takes climate seriously enough that they'll invest in real tech to deal with it.

The windfall will be theirs, and they'll be colonizing Europa the day we dig our last scrap of coal.
The USN has known how to scrub CO2 from the air for over fifty years.
Doesn't make it disappear though.

Once you have a bunch of CO2 rich monoethanolamine, then what?

NASA has RCRS, but I am sure that doesn't scale for shit.

https://www.wired.com/2014/11/nano-sub-co2-scrub/

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:42 am

em2nought wrote:
Rip wrote:
em2nought wrote:
Holman wrote:The rest of the world takes climate seriously enough that they'll invest in real tech to deal with it.

The windfall will be theirs, and they'll be colonizing Europa the day we dig our last scrap of coal.
The USN has known how to scrub CO2 from the air for over fifty years.
Doesn't make it disappear though.

Once you have a bunch of CO2 rich monoethanolamine, then what?

NASA has RCRS, but I am sure that doesn't scale for shit.
https://www.wired.com/2014/11/nano-sub-co2-scrub/

That is what I just said. That system uses monoethanolamine which has to be pumped into another chamber and have the CO2 removed. Which is then pumped overboard. SO you aren't removing CO2, just moving it.

https://www.ussnautilus.org/education/p ... rwater.pdf

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:37 am

Whoa...family feud.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:02 am

I'm confused at the past few posts.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:13 am

Vorret wrote:I'm confused at the past few posts.

Is that because Rip is making the case against Trump's climate change agenda accidentally?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:20 am

Especially on climate change the GOP really is the party of Rip:

The dominant spirit of conservative thought — or, more precisely, verbal gestures that seek to resemble thought — is not even skepticism but a trolling impulse. The aim is not so much to reason toward a policy conservatives would favor as to pierce the liberal claim to the moral high ground.

[Also provides a great overview of how the conservative case against the Paris Accord has crumbled.]

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:49 am

I'd write something, but it's too hot to think right now.