Octopus Overlords

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:38 pm I hope someone throws a chair at him.

In honor of departed Bobby Knight?

Seems like Republicans are taking turns yelling at Tuberville. Not yet sure whether they're going to do something substantive.

Republicans confront Tuberville over military holds in extraordinary showdown on Senate floor

The GOP effort to move the nominations came after Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said Wednesday morning they are trying a new workaround to confirm the officers. Schumer said the Senate will consider a resolution in the near future that would allow the quick confirmation of the now nearly 400 officers up for promotion or nominated for another senior job.

The resolution by Senate Armed Services Chairman Jack Reed, D-R.I., and Independent Sen. Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona would tweak the rules until the end of this session of Congress next year to allow a process for the Senate to pass multiple military nominations together. It would not apply to other nominations.

To go into effect, the Senate Rules Committee will have to consider the temporary rules change and send it to the Senate floor, where the full Senate would have to vote to approve it. That process could take several weeks and would likely need Republican support to succeed.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:58 pm

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:38 pm I hope someone throws a chair at him.

In honor of departed Bobby Knight?

Sure.

So the tl;dr is they talked a lot but didn't take any concrete actions to resolve the problem, correct?

They are saying they are going to take a vote to temporarily change the rule. Which hasn't probably happened because they wanted to put on this show to whip up 9 votes from the GOP to avoid a filibuster. Our, glorious Senate.

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:01 am They are saying they are going to take a vote to temporarily change the rule. Which hasn't probably happened because they wanted to put on this show to whip up 9 votes from the GOP to avoid a filibuster. Our, glorious Senate.

On the plus side, all this suggests that they probably do have 9 GOP votes (plus, the Solomonic and wise Krysten Sinema) on board for the temporary rule change, right?

Who knows why they felt this show was necessary. Maybe they needed to give Tuberville one last chance to back down. Maybe they wanted this to be the press story so that the rule change winds up on page 5 of the newspapers. Maybe Sinema demanded this. Who knows, but right now it looks like we might finally be getting to a solution here?

Yeah, if there's one thing we should do its craft temporary rules to get around one Senator's ability to block something. That doesn't sound like it'll ever be a problem, and honestly it's great negotiation strategy. Can't get something done? Just change the rules. That's how the Greatest Deliberative Body in the World (tm) handles things now.

TBH they've rarely had a Senator after the civil war that was this contemptuous of rule of law and majority rule. He's a racist. He's a misogynist. And he's an authoritarian. And on top he is an idiot. A legendarily bad combo. The public drubbing he just had it is something that just never happens.

Just to note, if you haven't paid attention to why this is coming to a head. It is because one of the top generals basically told everyone he was struggling with his workload, saying he was working 10-13 hours a day 7 days a week to support the Marines. And then he basically had a heart attack and the military leadership is essentially putting immense pressure on the Senate to nip this bullshit in the bud.

Given the current global situation, what Tuberville is doing isn't just grandstanding and isn't just idiocy, it's dangerous. Changing the rules to get around one person is absurd, but so is one person 'outvoting' 99 others and bringing the entire US military to a standstill over a pet peeve while the planet is erupting in war.

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:11 am Just to note, if you haven't paid attention to why this is coming to a head. It is because one of the top generals basically told everyone he was struggling with his workload, saying he was working 10-13 hours a day 7 days a week to support the Marines. And then he basically had a heart attack and the military leadership is essentially putting immense pressure on the Senate to nip this bullshit in the bud.

That would be Gen. Eric Smith, Commandant of the United States Marine Corps.

He's kind of a big deal.

One of the mjor checks in the system is no longer working. An idiot, who is bad at the job, has an inability to govern, has a poor understanding of politic, and no desire to keep a functioning government, Should not get re-elected. But that check is failing, states keep sending these people back, they are getting voted into position. I know we are talking quite a lot about how innefective our government is right now, but the fault is not on those folks sitting in DC. Its on all the people who said "Yes, this is the person I want to represent me and my interests". The current situation(s) going on in DC are just a reflection of the broader situation(s) going on for the entire country.

Jaymon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:02 pm One of the mjor checks in the system is no longer working. An idiot, who is bad at the job, has an inability to govern, has a poor understanding of politic, and no desire to keep a functioning government, Should not get re-elected. But that check is failing, states keep sending these people back, they are getting voted into position. I know we are talking quite a lot about how innefective our government is right now, but the fault is not on those folks sitting in DC. Its on all the people who said "Yes, this is the person I want to represent me and my interests". The current situation(s) going on in DC are just a reflection of the broader situation(s) going on for the entire country.

If you want to get into the 'why', I can't help but think back on the old issue that we have never taught our children critical thinking or problem solving. We teach for passing tests, not for thinking. Now, decades of that later, and we're all suffering as a result of people who can't tell the truth from a lie and who don't understand how to make informed decisions. But hey, they got that A on their English Lit midterms junior year!

In other words, we did it to ourselves. We raised generations of idiots, and now we're surrounded by idiots.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:35 pm

Jaymon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:02 pm One of the mjor checks in the system is no longer working. An idiot, who is bad at the job, has an inability to govern, has a poor understanding of politic, and no desire to keep a functioning government, Should not get re-elected. But that check is failing, states keep sending these people back, they are getting voted into position. I know we are talking quite a lot about how innefective our government is right now, but the fault is not on those folks sitting in DC. Its on all the people who said "Yes, this is the person I want to represent me and my interests". The current situation(s) going on in DC are just a reflection of the broader situation(s) going on for the entire country.

If you want to get into the 'why', I can't help but think back on the old issue that we have never taught our children critical thinking or problem solving. We teach for passing tests, not for thinking. Now, decades of that later, and we're all suffering as a result of people who can't tell the truth from a lie and who don't understand how to make informed decisions. But hey, they got that A on their English Lit midterms junior year!

In other words, we did it to ourselves. We raised generations of idiots, and now we're surrounded by idiots.

Amen. I'm not the parent I wish I was, but that is one thing I pounded into my kids' heads from an early age...critical thinking.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:37 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:35 pm

Jaymon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:02 pm One of the mjor checks in the system is no longer working. An idiot, who is bad at the job, has an inability to govern, has a poor understanding of politic, and no desire to keep a functioning government, Should not get re-elected. But that check is failing, states keep sending these people back, they are getting voted into position. I know we are talking quite a lot about how innefective our government is right now, but the fault is not on those folks sitting in DC. Its on all the people who said "Yes, this is the person I want to represent me and my interests". The current situation(s) going on in DC are just a reflection of the broader situation(s) going on for the entire country.

If you want to get into the 'why', I can't help but think back on the old issue that we have never taught our children critical thinking or problem solving. We teach for passing tests, not for thinking. Now, decades of that later, and we're all suffering as a result of people who can't tell the truth from a lie and who don't understand how to make informed decisions. But hey, they got that A on their English Lit midterms junior year!

In other words, we did it to ourselves. We raised generations of idiots, and now we're surrounded by idiots.

Amen. I'm not the parent I wish I was, but that is one thing I pounded into my kids' heads from an early age...critical thinking.

There is a significant and growing educational divide in voting. It's something that's really made clear to me the broader social benefits of investing in education, even beyond the economic benefits to the educated individuals themselves.

I work with small groups of kids at our local elementary school teaching supplementary math. Each year, the kids are confused when I tell them that getting the right answer on the problems in our sessions is almost beside the point. Follow the algorithm you've been taught, sure, and try to get the right answer. But ask why is this the way we do this? How can I quickly estimate the right answer in my head? Or quickly confirm my work? Where would I use this process or one similar to it in 'the real world?'

More often than not, I'm initially met with blank stares.

It's like it's a foreign concept they've not heard of before.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:41 pm I work with small groups of kids at our local elementary school teaching supplementary math. Each year, the kids are confused when I tell them that getting the right answer on the problems in our sessions is almost beside the point. Follow the algorithm you've been taught, sure, and try to get the right answer. But ask why is this the way we do this? How can I quickly estimate the right answer in my head? Or quickly confirm my work? Where would I use this process or one similar to it in 'the real world?'

More often than not, I'm initially met with blank stares.

It's like it's a foreign concept they've not heard of before.

I wish I'd had you for math, Mr. Z.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:37 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:35 pm

Jaymon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:02 pm One of the mjor checks in the system is no longer working. An idiot, who is bad at the job, has an inability to govern, has a poor understanding of politic, and no desire to keep a functioning government, Should not get re-elected. But that check is failing, states keep sending these people back, they are getting voted into position. I know we are talking quite a lot about how innefective our government is right now, but the fault is not on those folks sitting in DC. Its on all the people who said "Yes, this is the person I want to represent me and my interests". The current situation(s) going on in DC are just a reflection of the broader situation(s) going on for the entire country.

If you want to get into the 'why', I can't help but think back on the old issue that we have never taught our children critical thinking or problem solving. We teach for passing tests, not for thinking. Now, decades of that later, and we're all suffering as a result of people who can't tell the truth from a lie and who don't understand how to make informed decisions. But hey, they got that A on their English Lit midterms junior year!

In other words, we did it to ourselves. We raised generations of idiots, and now we're surrounded by idiots.

Amen. I'm not the parent I wish I was, but that is one thing I pounded into my kids' heads from an early age...critical thinking.

Hey, I am also very critical with my children though my wife doesn't let me pound them in the head.

I don't remember much critical thinking going on in most of the classes in HS or College, neither either. Not even in my college class called... Critical Thinking So while it might be a generational thing (I dunno about before X) not teaching nor learning critical thinking skills isn't something new. At the same time, I really really really wish I had learned more skills for living way back when. I got all the book learnin' and critical thinking skills and used them to be an excellent test taker and even made a pretty good living being a good critical thinker, helping those around me problem solve, sitting in my IT chair. But I'll be damned if I can fix a cabinet, solder... anything, use a multi-meter, or patch a roof. I'm addicted to energy provided from a grid, and if you take it away from me, my odds of survival would drop down to how long I can camp for.

A surprising amount of my critical thinking education came at my expense when I opened my mouth too much on Gone Gold (and later on OO.)

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:50 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:41 pm I work with small groups of kids at our local elementary school teaching supplementary math. Each year, the kids are confused when I tell them that getting the right answer on the problems in our sessions is almost beside the point. Follow the algorithm you've been taught, sure, and try to get the right answer. But ask why is this the way we do this? How can I quickly estimate the right answer in my head? Or quickly confirm my work? Where would I use this process or one similar to it in 'the real world?'

More often than not, I'm initially met with blank stares.

It's like it's a foreign concept they've not heard of before.

I wish I'd had you for math, Mr. Z.

Same!

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:28 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:50 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:41 pm I work with small groups of kids at our local elementary school teaching supplementary math. Each year, the kids are confused when I tell them that getting the right answer on the problems in our sessions is almost beside the point. Follow the algorithm you've been taught, sure, and try to get the right answer. But ask why is this the way we do this? How can I quickly estimate the right answer in my head? Or quickly confirm my work? Where would I use this process or one similar to it in 'the real world?'

More often than not, I'm initially met with blank stares.

It's like it's a foreign concept they've not heard of before.

I wish I'd had you for math, Mr. Z.

Same!

Well, more often than not they very much just want to keep working on the answer, so there's that...

My math teachers:

1. Repeat this list of basic processes (2x2=4, 3x2=6, 4x...) until you have it memorized.
2. Follow this recipe using those processes, and then repeat it 30 times per day for two weeks.
3. Next recipe...
4. If you fell behind (or transferred from a school that hadn't taught you #1 yet), you'll just have to stay behind, as I now think you're bad at math, and are, therefore, not worth the effort.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:18 pm My math teachers:

1. Repeat this list of basic processes (2x2=4, 3x2=6, 4x...) until you have it memorized.

In fairness, for that specific list (times tables), I'm not sure there is another way to do it. My youngest is 14 and still counts on her fingers for some of those - so I guess that's another option. And she get's the right answers...it's just slower.

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:57 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:18 pm My math teachers:

1. Repeat this list of basic processes (2x2=4, 3x2=6, 4x...) until you have it memorized.

In fairness, for that specific list (times tables), I'm not sure there is another way to do it. My youngest is 14 and still counts on her fingers for some of those - so I guess that's another option. And she get's the right answers...it's just slower.

I'll just say that BH probably agrees and doesn't fault them for #1 all that much, more so for #2 and #3.

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:33 am

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:57 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:18 pm My math teachers:

1. Repeat this list of basic processes (2x2=4, 3x2=6, 4x...) until you have it memorized.

In fairness, for that specific list (times tables), I'm not sure there is another way to do it. My youngest is 14 and still counts on her fingers for some of those - so I guess that's another option. And she get's the right answers...it's just slower.

I'll just say that BH probably agrees and doesn't fault them for #1 all that much, more so for #2 and #3.

Yeah, schools aren't really set up well to handle outliers - although I think they are better today than when we were kids.

I can say what worked for me was to have a computer game in the computer lab where you fly a bomber, and your bomber becomes a stealth bomber if you get all the times table questions right.

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:33 am

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:57 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:18 pm My math teachers:

1. Repeat this list of basic processes (2x2=4, 3x2=6, 4x...) until you have it memorized.

In fairness, for that specific list (times tables), I'm not sure there is another way to do it. My youngest is 14 and still counts on her fingers for some of those - so I guess that's another option. And she get's the right answers...it's just slower.

I'll just say that BH probably agrees and doesn't fault them for #1 all that much, more so for #2 and #3.

True.

But I'll also say this: When my kids were in elementary school, the teachers taught them differently. They still had to memorize the table, but they were also taught context. They were taught not just that 6x8=48, but why 6x8=48. That philosophy - teaching the reasoning behind the math - lasted up until some point in junior high, at which point the school reverted to simple follow-the-recipe math.

It's like the difference between an architect and a construction worker. They both know that a post made of a certain material needs to be placed in a certain spot. The construction worker knows because he was told to place it there. The architect knows why it was placed where it was placed, and why it is made of the material it is. Either way the post gets placed, but the architect understands, which is far superior.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:31 am They were taught not just that 6x8=48

Ditto

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:31 am but why 6x8=48.

So was I..."because if you don't answer me, I'll smack you".

hepcat wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:05 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:31 am but why 6x8=48.

I still don't know the answer to this. IS there an answer to this?!

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:17 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:05 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:31 am but why 6x8=48.

I still don't know the answer to this. IS there an answer to this?!

Because Johnny has six apples but he fucking looooves apples, so...

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:11 am TBH they've rarely had a Senator after the civil war that was this contemptuous of rule of law and majority rule. He's a racist. He's a misogynist. And he's an authoritarian. And on top he is an idiot. A legendarily bad combo. The public drubbing he just had it is something that just never happens.

Just to note, if you haven't paid attention to why this is coming to a head. It is because one of the top generals basically told everyone he was struggling with his workload, saying he was working 10-13 hours a day 7 days a week to support the Marines. And then he basically had a heart attack and the military leadership is essentially putting immense pressure on the Senate to nip this bullshit in the bud.

The issue is the Magaites line Tuberville want to stomp all over the military until they get the military coup they want because that meets their goal of burning down “the swamp”. Which is exactly what happened in the final days of many democracies.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:17 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:05 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:31 am but why 6x8=48.

I still don't know the answer to this. IS there an answer to this?!

Just assuming you are quasi-serious, what a teacher will show is simply something like; Why, if each single person has 2 tacos, do we know that 8 people have a total of 16 tacos? And what if those 8 people had 6 tacos, how many would that be? And you count out the matrix of 8 x 6 with a taco in each square. I'm sure you at least knew the answer had to do with tacos.

Ohhh, no, I get that, you’re just explaining it using a word problem or introducing a scenario with context.

I guess I was saying I don’t, quite literally, know WHY 6x8 =48, as BH posited, and maybe in the metaphysical sense.

It’s math. There is no why. Only ‘y’s.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 11:34 am It’s math. There is no why. Only ‘y’s.

Yeah, this.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:41 am Ohhh, no, I get that, you’re just explaining it using a word problem or introducing a scenario with context.

I guess I was saying I don’t, quite literally, know WHY 6x8 =48, as BH posited, and maybe in the metaphysical sense.

I wasn't talking about the thousand-page book written on why 1+1 = 2, just that my kids learned to understand the concepts and reasoning behind the processes that they were being taught, while I was only taught to memorize the process through repetition, sans understanding.

My example was just one off of the top of my head, but to simplify: I can set one apple next to one apple and understand why 1 apple plus 1 apple = 2 apples, which is different, intellectually, than simply memorizing that 1+1 = 2. The person who just memorized is limited entirely to the simple fact, while the person who has understanding can use it to extrapolate and understand, for instance, what 2+2 is without having been taught it.

Or to bring the idea into another field: There's a difference between following step-by-step instructions to tweak a setting in Windows, and learning enough about how Windows works to understand what the tweak does and why. The end result may be the same, but one person has a new tool in his box, while the other does not.

give a man a fish...

Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:12 pm give a man a fish...

Stop it with your brevity and efficiency!