[WW] The Princess Bride - Game Over

[coopasonic]

This is true. I have a vague recollection of Qantaga saying that Buttercup would stop getting messages if Westley were converted because her heart rejects evil, or something along those lines, but I think that may have fallen on the cutting room floor.

You guys seriously have an aversion to reading the rules don't you?

Should a special be converted, they will retain their powers (if still applicable). The exceptions will be: 1. Westley will retain his scan for Dread Pirate Roberts and protection against Dread Pirates' kills. However, he will lose his scan for Buttercup (Buttercup's heart would be closed to evil). 2. An unactivated Pirate (1 or 2) will be converted as a Villager. They would lose their scan for the Dread Pirate Roberts (since there is no further possibility for them to activate into the Fleet).

A converted Westley can't scan Buttercup but there's nothing about a scanned buttercup no longer getting the alive/dead notifications.

I don't think there's much reason to wait for buttercup to speak up. If Bubbles comes back and says no Guapo would die so it would be nothing but a delaying action and a damning one at that. It has to be true or there would have been no value in saying it.

My inner conspiracy theorist is talking to me again about Mara Jade, a converted Westley and a Count posing as a dead Buttercup. The only way either El Guapo and Bubbles are bad is if they are both bad. I'm trying to work out the timeline, but Buttercup would know when Westley found her and we'd know he was good at that moment and if that moment was after Unagi's lynch writeup then he wasn't converted. If that all pans out, if we trust buttercup we have to trust westley and the pool gets smaller.

[Lassr]

 withdraw El Guapo 
 


waiting on Bubbles.

[coopasonic]

Any scenario where El Guapo is evil has become too convoluted and Bubbles will just reinforce that.

 rshetts2 
 

[El Guapo]

This is true. I have a vague recollection of Qantaga saying that Buttercup would stop getting messages if Westley were converted because her heart rejects evil, or something along those lines, but I think that may have fallen on the cutting room floor.

You guys seriously have an aversion to reading the rules don't you?

Should a special be converted, they will retain their powers (if still applicable). The exceptions will be: 1. Westley will retain his scan for Dread Pirate Roberts and protection against Dread Pirates' kills. However, he will lose his scan for Buttercup (Buttercup's heart would be closed to evil). 2. An unactivated Pirate (1 or 2) will be converted as a Villager. They would lose their scan for the Dread Pirate Roberts (since there is no further possibility for them to activate into the Fleet).

A converted Westley can't scan Buttercup but there's nothing about a scanned buttercup no longer getting the alive/dead notifications.

I don't think there's much reason to wait for buttercup to speak up. If Bubbles comes back and says no Guapo would die so it would be nothing but a delaying action and a damning one at that. It has to be true or there would have been no value in saying it.

My inner conspiracy theorist is talking to me again about Mara Jade, a converted Westley and a Count posing as a dead Buttercup. The only way either El Guapo and Bubbles are bad is if they are both bad. I'm trying to work out the timeline, but Buttercup would know when Westley found her and we'd know he was good at that moment and if that moment was after Unagi's lynch writeup then he wasn't converted. If that all pans out, if we trust buttercup we have to trust westley and the pool gets smaller.

You're right about it being a little silly of me to say it if it's not true. I only mentioned the Bubbles part to note that you don't need to trust me on that, but can get confirmation from Mr. Bubbles.

As for the timing, Mr. Bubbles came out and I scanned him in response the night following Unagi's lynch and write-up. The chain of events (as noted in the timeline I posted before along with pr0ner's protections) is as follows:

(1) Lagom announces that he's found Humperdink, and that it's Unagi. [Lagom is under Fezzik protection at this time apparently]
(2) Unagi is lynched; write up ensues, we shift to night.
(3) During that night Mr. Bubbles posts that he's Buttercup and that Stessier is Vizzini.
(4) I respond to that announcement by scanning Mr. Bubbles and confirming his claim.
(5) Following day, Stessier is lynched and comes back evil.

So assuming Lagom fingered Humperdink appropriately (which seems right, though sounds icky when I phrase it like that), then neither Mr. Bubbles nor myself could have been converted after Unagi's death. When Mr. Bubbles got confirmation that he'd been found the following morning, that in turn proves that I was not converted before Unagi's death (since I would have lost my scan if I had been converted, and hence could not have found Buttercup, hence no notice would have been issued to Bubbles).

So in conclusion, unless another Westley comes forward, you know both that I am Westley and that I am good. So that's good news.

[rshetts2]

It looks like our streak is about to end. If you lynch me, you lynch a good villager.
Lassr claims that the main reason for lynching me is my request that Tru1cy tell us his scan choice when he put it in. If he wants to lynch me for that, he is either misguided or evil. I could see how there was some small risk in tru1
cy doing that but I also felt the info gained may be valuable. If he did reveal his scan, and if evil hadnt already placed their kill choice and they chose to kill tru1cy instead of allowing Rugen to, they gave up their shot at a double nite kill. Still think having tru1cy's scan info wasnt a bad idea, and it definitely wasnt and evil one. I can see disagreeing with me but trying to use it to railroad me is evil, and so is  Lassr. 
 


If you must lynch me, it will only hurt us, not crush us, so do what you feel is best but if you do, look closely at Lassr when I comes up as a villager.

[Qantaga]

Voting:

3. Lassr ----------------> rshetts2, El Guapo
6. Mr. Bubbles -------->
8. pr0ner --------------> rshetts2
10. coopasonic -------> rshetts2
14. El Guapo ---------->
17. Lagom Lite -------> El Guapo
19. rshetts2 -----------> Lassr
20. RMC ----------------> El Guapo

El Guapo (2): Lagom, RMC, Lassr
rshetts2 (2): pr0ner, Lassr, coopasonic
Lassr (1): rshetts2


*Please let me know if I've missed anything.


Players remaining: 8
Majority is 5


Deadline is Thursday, September 15 at 9:00 pm EST.

[Qantaga]

Mod Note: I will be offline from around 5:00 EST until after Midnight EST tonight. I will be unable to keep an eye on the voting tallies during that time.

[Lagom Lite]

Whoa whoa whoa! Hold off on votes. While going back through Lagom's posts to argue with him, I noticed another part of the rules that can prove me more or less unequivocally. It's this:

GAME RULES



General Gameplay


Westley - At the beginning of the game, Westley will scan for Buttercup. He will be told Buttercup or not-Buttercup.

[pirate stuff]

Buttercup - Buttercup will scan for Vizzini each night. She will only be told Vizzini or not-Vizzini. If she successfully scans Vizzini, she will steal his vial of iocane powder. Should Westley find her, she will then receive a note each sussequent morning informing her whether Westley is alive or dead.

Lagom quoted but overlooked the part I bolded. So...unless Qantaga forgot about this, Mr. Bubbles should've received notes confirming that Westley is alive, including this morning (since I am). So wait for Mr. Bubbles, but he should be able to confirm that Westley is alive.]

So then once Mr. Bubbles does that, you know I am Westley unless someone else is Westley but is bizarrely choosing not to contest me.

Nice! Maybe I was wrong about you after all.

 withdraw El Guapo 
 

[Lagom Lite]

I want the confirmation from Bubbles that Westley is still alive before I proceed.

Still... at the back of my mind is a converted Bubblecup and Count Guapo.

[Lagom Lite]

I want the confirmation from Bubbles that Westley is still alive before I proceed.

Still... at the back of my mind is a converted Bubblecup and Count Guapo.

...but if you pulled that off, you deserve to win.

[El Guapo]

eh, no worries. There has been plenty of wrong to go around the village this game.

[Lagom Lite]

eh, no worries. There has been plenty of wrong to go around the village this game.

The moniker "Bubblecup" is possibly the bestest thing I've ever conceived on these boards.

[Lassr]

Coop, RMC, Rshetts and Lassr. Possible original evils if everything else pans out to be true.

If I am an original evil then my plan to get almost my whole team lynched was bold since I had really pushed for Unagi to be lynched and then named stessier as my quiet suspect.

El Guapo, Remus, Coop and rshetts rotated on and off my list as the 3rd.

El Guapo appears to be wrong. Remus was obviously wrong. Coop was just quiet and rshetts had a few posts I didn't feel were from a good villager. RMC has been ultra quiet and difficult to get a read.

If there is a conversion...well I can't argue that I would not be a good candidate. A quiet would be a good candidate and Lagom (an early conversion with the sacrifice of Unagi who was powerless at the time to prove his goodness).

I would love to look for an original today. If we hit and the game ends then fantastic.

So rshetts are you voting for me because you think I'm converted or an original?

[Mr Bubbles]

 withdraw El Guapo 
 


waiting on Bubbles.

Sorry haven't had the opportunity to be online. My love Wesley is still alive.
 rshetts2 
 

[RMC]

 Withdraw El Guapo 
 


Sorry too much going on, I am not evil, and if you look at my post after day started, I pointed out the whole Westley / Buttercup thing.

Not sure who we should be going after, need to read some more..

[El Guapo]

 withdraw El Guapo 
 


waiting on Bubbles.

Sorry haven't had the opportunity to be online. My love Wesley is still alive.
 rshetts2 
 

I love you too, honey.

Though in the interest of full disclosure, I scanned Lassr the night after I found you. But a man can't give up a whole game of scanning the field in just one night! I hope you understand.

[El Guapo]

Just went back through the interactions that LL collected again. I do see why you voted for me; for one, my early guesses are a who's who of people who ultimately turned out to be villagers. But you note that you were hilariously wrong too, so I guess I'm not alone in that.

I agree with LL's analysis that Lassr is not one of the original evil. Not really on board (at least not yet) with the idea that Lassr is the convert. Could be, but not yet seeing a lot of great evidence on that.

RMC's generally quiet, but from what I'm seeing on the re-read what he's posted has been reasonable. I do still think that Rugen would likely try to be quiet for fear of attracting Inigo, but that's decidedly variable by the personality of the person playing Rugen. And RMC's right that he did point out the Westley - Buttercup alive angle.

Not clearing Lassr or RMC of course, but I'm not inclined to vote for either right now. So that leaves rshetts2 and coop.

Rshetts2 - appears to be the highest on people's radars at the moment including pr0ner/Fezzik, for that what's worth; day 1 pushed Scoop; "data dump" comment shortly before lynch deadline;

Coop - didn't actually join LL's push on me today, but supported it with extremely flimsy logic; seems mostly quiet, though that could just be my perception at the moment.

I'm going to dig through rshetts2 and coop posts now to see what I can dig up, but right now I'm thinking one of them. I could be persuaded on RMC, potentially. And I don't want to rule out Lassr, but it'd have to be a pretty good case on him.

[El Guapo]

Also, the deadline's coming up tomorrow. Ideally I think everyone who hasn't already should post some analysis on who they think is evil. You don't necessarily need to vote tonight (though I plan to before I go to bed), but some analysis would be helpful.

[Lassr]

well, rshetts revenge vote on me is odd if he thinks I'm the convert simply because we have no proof that the conversion happened due to the timing of pr0ners protection of Lagom. If it didn't happen then we are wasting a kill. I know I keep repeating this but I think it is important. We KNOW there is an original out there and we should find him first.

 rshetts2 
 

[El Guapo]

Just to be clear rshetts is currently at n-1. Not sure that's a huge deal anymore since all of the good specials are accounted for (except Max, presumed dead). Oh, and if you are Max rshetts, then rez you idiot.

Currently re-reading.

[rshetts2]

Well Im at n-1 now. Everything Ive done has been logical from a good villager point of view and evil is managing to twist it on me and of course my fellow villagers just love to drink the koolaid. Im sure if it wasnt for a few easy evil kills Id be dead already, so go ahead and kill another villager because unless youve had evil gift wrapped to you youve missed every frikkin time. At least this time its just a stupid move instead of a fatal one.


Since Im pretty much dead anyway, I toss out a wrinkle for you to worry about. PrOner points out a simple rule issue, not to claim a role but to earn some village cred. A few villagers start thinking he maybe Fezzik. He is really cautious about actually claiming the role but evil sees an opportunity here. So he drops another vague hint and the village anoints him protector. Not unanimously but with enough conviction to steer lynch trains away from him. Still he plays it coy, because its possible that Fezzik is out there to counter. Day after day goes by and PrOner does nothing to claim his role but the village after killing a few more of their own are desperate for something good and place him on a pedestal. Evil is still waiting to see if the real Fez will reveal but theres nary a peep. Unfortunately for evil some good specials have finally found thier targets and evil starts taking hits. They need a plan and need it now and since a few villagers are still unsure of PrOner being Fezzik evil devises and launches a seriously evil plan. Theyve realized their luck and believe now that Fezzik is dead so what better way to sell PrOners cover than to fake a protection! Yep, they tell Qan they want no kill tonite and decide to let the village believe that a protection took place and that PrOner is the virtual representation of all that is good. Then finally PrOner comes out and reveals. Of course he self protected Now PrOner is solidly believed to be good and since hes believed to be Fezzik, he isnt under suspicion of being converted, the perfect wolf in sheeps clothing that is pure as the driven snow. He has our trust and should never even be poked now. He rides his cover til the end and the village loses. Evil gloats at how awesome it was to win through a faked "protection" and the entire village hangs its head in shame and humiliation.

Is this our fate? Only time will tell but since PrOner believes he is utterly trust able and non converted, I figured I would show him that wasnt quite true after all.

Have fun guys and villagers once youre done with me could you try to get one lynch right with out having to have it handed to you?

[El Guapo]

Bah. Reading Coop's old posts doesn't suggest anything too evil. There's not a ton of interaction with the known evils (though as LL points out, there isn't much interaction with stessier period). Coop's posts generally seem sensible and probative.

That suggests rshetts2, maybe RMC. I'm going to sleep on it.

[El Guapo]

Is rshetts2's scenario possible, to begin with?

Qantaga, can Team Evil choose not to submit a kill?

[pr0ner]

Well Im at n-1 now. Everything Ive done has been logical from a good villager point of view and evil is managing to twist it on me and of course my fellow villagers just love to drink the koolaid. Im sure if it wasnt for a few easy evil kills Id be dead already, so go ahead and kill another villager because unless youve had evil gift wrapped to you youve missed every frikkin time. At least this time its just a stupid move instead of a fatal one.


Since Im pretty much dead anyway, I toss out a wrinkle for you to worry about. PrOner points out a simple rule issue, not to claim a role but to earn some village cred. A few villagers start thinking he maybe Fezzik. He is really cautious about actually claiming the role but evil sees an opportunity here. So he drops another vague hint and the village anoints him protector. Not unanimously but with enough conviction to steer lynch trains away from him. Still he plays it coy, because its possible that Fezzik is out there to counter. Day after day goes by and PrOner does nothing to claim his role but the village after killing a few more of their own are desperate for something good and place him on a pedestal. Evil is still waiting to see if the real Fez will reveal but theres nary a peep. Unfortunately for evil some good specials have finally found thier targets and evil starts taking hits. They need a plan and need it now and since a few villagers are still unsure of PrOner being Fezzik evil devises and launches a seriously evil plan. Theyve realized their luck and believe now that Fezzik is dead so what better way to sell PrOners cover than to fake a protection! Yep, they tell Qan they want no kill tonite and decide to let the village believe that a protection took place and that PrOner is the virtual representation of all that is good. Then finally PrOner comes out and reveals. Of course he self protected Now PrOner is solidly believed to be good and since hes believed to be Fezzik, he isnt under suspicion of being converted, the perfect wolf in sheeps clothing that is pure as the driven snow. He has our trust and should never even be poked now. He rides his cover til the end and the village loses. Evil gloats at how awesome it was to win through a faked "protection" and the entire village hangs its head in shame and humiliation.

Is this our fate? Only time will tell but since PrOner believes he is utterly trust able and non converted, I figured I would show him that wasnt quite true after all.

Have fun guys and villagers once youre done with me could you try to get one lynch right with out having to have it handed to you?

What the fuck are you smoking?

[coopasonic]

Coop - didn't actually join LL's push on me today, but supported it with extremely flimsy logic; seems mostly quiet, though that could just be my perception at the moment.

It was all I had. I was looking for something on the non-provens and specifically something related to the Count and that was what I could find. Obviously it seems flimsy to you because you knew you were Westley, none of the rest of us knew it at the time. I never put my vote on because, as I noted, you pointed the error out yourself and then I was trying to decide if Lagom was being a smooth tongued devil and opportunistic monster.

One other thing:

Sorry haven't had the opportunity to be online. My love Wesley is still alive.

What night did you first hear Westley was alive? This matters.

Oh and I was just going to ask Q the same thing. I bet that's something the mod hadn't considered.

[Qantaga]

Qantaga, can Team Evil choose not to submit a kill?

No, Evil must submit a kill order each night.

[coopasonic]

Qantaga, can Team Evil choose not to submit a kill?

No, Evil must submit a kill order each night.

Must the kill order be for someone living? Yeah, I know.... and El Guapo's the lawyer, not me.

[Qantaga]

Voting:

3. Lassr ----------------> rshetts2, El Guapo, rshetts2
6. Mr Bubbles --------> rshetts2
8. pr0ner --------------> rshetts2
10. coopasonic -------> rshetts2
14. El Guapo ---------->
17. Lagom Lite -------> El Guapo
19. rshetts2 -----------> Lassr
20. RMC ----------------> El Guapo

El Guapo (0): Lagom, RMC, Lassr
rshetts2 (4): pr0ner, Lassr, coopasonic, Mr Bubbles, Lassr
Lassr (1): rshetts2


*Please let me know if I've missed anything.


Players remaining: 8
Majority is 5


Deadline is Thursday, September 15 at 9:00 pm EST.

rshetts2 is n-1.

[Qantaga]

Must the kill order be for someone living?

Yes, the kill order must target a living player.

[Mr Bubbles]

Coop - didn't actually join LL's push on me today, but supported it with extremely flimsy logic; seems mostly quiet, though that could just be my perception at the moment.

It was all I had. I was looking for something on the non-provens and specifically something related to the Count and that was what I could find. Obviously it seems flimsy to you because you knew you were Westley, none of the rest of us knew it at the time. I never put my vote on because, as I noted, you pointed the error out yourself and then I was trying to decide if Lagom was being a smooth tongued devil and opportunistic monster.

One other thing:

Sorry haven't had the opportunity to be online. My love Wesley is still alive.

What night did you first hear Westley was alive? This matters.

Oh and I was just going to ask Q the same thing. I bet that's something the mod hadn't considered.

I've had two confirmations. The night I outed I was contacted.

[Lagom Lite]

Let's do it.

 rhsetts2 
 

[Qantaga]

Voting:

3. Lassr ----------------> rshetts2, El Guapo, rshetts2
6. Mr Bubbles --------> rshetts2
8. pr0ner --------------> rshetts2
10. coopasonic -------> rshetts2
14. El Guapo ---------->
17. Lagom Lite -------> El Guapo, rshetts2
19. rshetts2 -----------> Lassr
20. RMC ----------------> El Guapo

El Guapo (0): Lagom, RMC, Lassr
rshetts2 (5): pr0ner, Lassr, coopasonic, Mr Bubbles, Lassr, Lagom
Lassr (1): rshetts2


*Please let me know if I've missed anything.


Players remaining: 8
Majority is 5


Voting is closed.

[Qantaga]

It is an almost joyful day.

Well, joyful might be stretching it a bit, but your spirits are higher than you thought possible. In the past two days, you had found two evildoers and the village had safely survived last night with no one perishing.

Everyone gathered early in the common room of the Inn. There was a lot of discussion and you thought you might be on to something. However, the conversation took many twists and turns and you found yourself in need of a walk to organize your thoughts. As you rose from your table, so did most of the others. Some went to the kitchen, while most made their way outside, like you.

You walk along the riverbank for awhile, enjoying the peaceful flow of the water and the nice day around you. As you turn and start to make your way back down the riverside, a thought jumps into your mind. Are you on to something important? You turn and run for the village square to talk it over with the others.

As you approach the square, you see a group of people gathered behind the Inn. As you get closer, you see that they are surrounding rshetts2 and have him backed up against the woodpile.

You race forward to see what has happened, when... *Thwack* ... someone strikes rshetts2 with a log of firewood.

*Thwack* ... *Thwack* ... *Thwack* ... all come in quick succession. You take one step closer... *Thwack*

rshetts2 is dead.

Everyone drops their firewood and shuffles off toward their cottages. Night is falling, so you hope the right choice was made.

You know what you must do. You turn your attention to rshetts2. There, on his right arm, the smudge is taking shape. Soon, the runes begin to form. You find yourself trying desperately to will the runes to form the new word and not the tired, old one that you've come to despise. Your will is not strong enough today. The earlier joy you felt this day is now gone. The word the runes form when they stitch together is not the new word.

The word is Villager.

[Qantaga]

It is Night

Westley, who will you scan? Who will you protect?
Fezzik, who will you protect?
Pirates, who will you scan?
Dread Pirate Roberts, who will you scan? Or, who will you kill?
Humperdinck, who will you kill?
Buttercup, who will you scan?
Ancient Booer, who will you scan?
Inigo Montoya, who will you scan?
County Tyrone Rugen, who will you scan?
Prince Humperdinck, will you try to convert someone to your evil ways?
Miracle Max, will you resurrect a mostly dead player?


Deadline for all night orders will be Friday, September 16 at Midnight EST.

[Lassr]

Dammit!

Coop or RMC?

RMC is more quiet than Coop but I had Coop on my list at one time.

One of those has to be an original from my view point.

[coopasonic]

Dammit!

Coop or RMC?

RMC is more quiet than Coop but I had Coop on my list at one time.

One of those has to be an original from my view point.

Let's let Evil choose their night kill before we start talking about who we want to kill. At this stage there is no need to give them any help. We're at the miss = loss stage now.

[El Guapo]

Bah! I probably would have voted for him anyways this morning, as he was a reasonable choice...but I was just having a hard time selling myself on pulling the trigger. The crazy pr0ner story wasn't a great final pitch, in any event.

Well, I guess we wait 'til morning and see who is dead (though I don't think this is a tough guess as to who Team Evil will pick).

[Lassr]

The crazy pr0ner story wasn't a great final pitch, in any event.

Yeah, I actually felt better about my vote after that, it seemed like a desperation post...

[pr0ner]

The crazy pr0ner story wasn't a great final pitch, in any event.

Yeah, I actually felt better about my vote after that, it seemed like a desperation post...

Same here.

[Lagom Lite]

Damn.