Octopus Overlords

Freyland wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:04 am

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:35 pm Ruh ro, Rauron!

I lol'd.

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:41 pm ...The Silmarillion, but the Amazon series doesn't have the rights to that story, only to what's said in the appendices to the LOTR.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:45 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:41 pm ...The Silmarillion, but the Amazon series doesn't have the rights to that story, only to what's said in the appendices to the LOTR.

WTF? I thought this series was The Silmarillion.

The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are set during the Third Age, while the First and Second Ages are explored in other Tolkien writings such as The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and The History of Middle-earth. Because Amazon only bought the television rights to The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, the writers had to identify all of the references to the Second Age in those books and create a story that bridged those passages. These are primarily in the appendices of The Lord of the Rings, but also in certain chapters and songs.[3] Tolkien's estate was prepared to veto any changes from his established narrative,[26] including anything that contradicted what Tolkien wrote in other works.[3] The writers were free to add characters or details,[26] and worked with the estate and Tolkien lore experts to ensure these were still "Tolkienian".[3] They referenced letters that Tolkien wrote about his works and mythology for additional context on the setting and characters.[3][51] Simon Tolkien, a novelist and the grandson of J.R.R. Tolkien, consulted on the series and helped develop its story and character arcs. He is credited as a "series consultant".[52] The showrunners disagreed with suggestions that the series was only "vaguely connected" to Tolkien's writings. McKay said they felt it was "deeply, deeply connected" and a "story we're stewarding that was here before us and was waiting in those books" to be told.[53] A disclaimer is featured in the series's end credits stating that some elements are "inspired by, though not contained in, the original source material".[54]

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:41 pm Saw an interesting theory about Halbrand:

Spoiler:

The character Halbrand (the sailor who spent time on the raft with Galadriel) isn't in Tolkien. He's invented for this series.

He has been presented as a sexy outsider and refugee, but Galadriel has noticed that he wears the token of a lost kingdom in the Southlands. Ep 3 made us sure to notice that he tried to hide it. We've also seen that he may have sacrificed his earlier raftmates in order to escape Moby Dick.

Speculation is that he is either one of the human kings who will become a Ringwraith or that he might even be Sauron in disguise.

Chraolic wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:07 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:41 pm Saw an interesting theory about Halbrand:

Spoiler:

The character Halbrand (the sailor who spent time on the raft with Galadriel) isn't in Tolkien. He's invented for this series.

He has been presented as a sexy outsider and refugee, but Galadriel has noticed that he wears the token of a lost kingdom in the Southlands. Ep 3 made us sure to notice that he tried to hide it. We've also seen that he may have sacrificed his earlier raftmates in order to escape Moby Dick.

Speculation is that he is either one of the human kings who will become a Ringwraith or that he might even be Sauron in disguise.

Spoiler:

One theory I've seen is that he could become the King of the Dead. It fits really well with his people having previously followed Morgoth, and also he's in the same location as Isildur.

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:11 pm On The Stranger:

Spoiler:

I do think it's Gandalf, and I think the search for the firefly-constellation will lead the Harfoots to the Shire.

My reasoning is mostly narrative economy. No other wizard has a relationship with hobbits in any way, and showing Gandalf finding his post-semi-divine place in Middle-earth with the help of hobbits would be nicely reciprocal.

Plus it can't be Bombadil since he is (IIRC) the oldest being in Middle-earth. Canonically, he's already somewhere prancing around offscreen.

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:13 pm Just watched episode 4. Lots of Numenor, lots of Southrons and orcs, plenty of dwarves, no Harfoots to be seen. Still a good episode!

Also, a *very* specific screenplay allusion:

Spoiler:

When Adar (called Lord-Father by the orcs) is talking with the captured elf Arondir, he asks him where he is from.

This happens just after 16:35. From there, the dialogue very closely mimics Marlon Brando's Colonel Kurtz talking to Martin Sheen's Captain Willard in Apocalypse Now. It's only a few lines, but it's too particular to be a coincidence.

Here's the relevant dialogue from AN:

Spoiler:

KURTZ
Where you from, Willard?

WILLARD
I'm from Ohio, sir.

KURTZ
Were you born there?

WILLARD
Yes, sir.

KURTZ
Whereabouts?

WILLARD
Toledo, sir.

KURTZ
How far are you from the river?

WILLARD
The Ohio River, sir? About two
hundred miles.

KURTZ
I went down that river once when I
was a kid. There's a place in the
river, I can't remember...must
have been a gardenia plantation,
or a flower plantation at one time.
It's all wild and overgrown now.
But for about five miles, you'd
think that heaven just fell on the
earth, in the form of gardenias.

I wonder if we'll see more touches like this?

Archinerd wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:58 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:13 pm Just watched episode 4. Lots of Numenor, lots of Southrons and orcs, plenty of dwarves, no Harfoots to be seen. Still a good episode!

Also, a *very* specific screenplay allusion:

Spoiler:

When Adar (called Lord-Father by the orcs) is talking with the captured elf Arondir, he asks him where he is from.

This happens just after 16:35. From there, the dialogue very closely mimics Marlon Brando's Colonel Kurtz talking to Martin Sheen's Captain Willard in Apocalypse Now. It's only a few lines, but it's too particular to be a coincidence.

Here's the relevant dialogue from AN:

Spoiler:

KURTZ
Where you from, Willard?

WILLARD
I'm from Ohio, sir.

KURTZ
Were you born there?

WILLARD
Yes, sir.

KURTZ
Whereabouts?

WILLARD
Toledo, sir.

KURTZ
How far are you from the river?

WILLARD
The Ohio River, sir? About two
hundred miles.

KURTZ
I went down that river once when I
was a kid. There's a place in the
river, I can't remember...must
have been a gardenia plantation,
or a flower plantation at one time.
It's all wild and overgrown now.
But for about five miles, you'd
think that heaven just fell on the
earth, in the form of gardenias.

I wonder if we'll see more touches like this?

Spoiler:

He even sounds like Brando's Kurtz in that scene.

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:55 am It's now canon that Beleriand is Elven Ohio.

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:13 pm Just watched episode 4. Lots of Numenor, lots of Southrons and orcs, plenty of dwarves, no Harfoots to be seen. Still a good episode!

Also, a *very* specific screenplay allusion:

Spoiler:

When Adar (called Lord-Father by the orcs) is talking with the captured elf Arondir, he asks him where he is from.

This happens just after 16:35. From there, the dialogue very closely mimics Marlon Brando's Colonel Kurtz talking to Martin Sheen's Captain Willard in Apocalypse Now. It's only a few lines, but it's too particular to be a coincidence.

Here's the relevant dialogue from AN:

Spoiler:

KURTZ
Where you from, Willard?

WILLARD
I'm from Ohio, sir.

KURTZ
Were you born there?

WILLARD
Yes, sir.

KURTZ
Whereabouts?

WILLARD
Toledo, sir.

KURTZ
How far are you from the river?

WILLARD
The Ohio River, sir? About two
hundred miles.

KURTZ
I went down that river once when I
was a kid. There's a place in the
river, I can't remember...must
have been a gardenia plantation,
or a flower plantation at one time.
It's all wild and overgrown now.
But for about five miles, you'd
think that heaven just fell on the
earth, in the form of gardenias.

I wonder if we'll see more touches like this?

There's also more on The Stranger, although we don't see him:

Spoiler:

The creepy old Southron dude tells the Southron kid-with-the-Morgoth-blade that Sauron recently arrived in a starfall. This obviously refers to The Stranger, but I think it's a misdirection.

My sister debated this with me, claiming that The Stranger being Gandalf would mess too much with the canonical timeline, but I do think that's what the show is doing. And anyway, Galadriel's search has already established that Sauron survived the fall of Morgoth and is still active in the world. There's no point (that we've heard about) where he was defeated and then banished, now to return.

Another possibility, though (as long as everyone is messing with timelines), is that there were actually two simultaneous starfalls, and that the one the Harfoots saw was not the one the Southrons saw.

As for Adar:

Spoiler:

I'm guessing he'll eventually be the Mouth of Sauron or the Witch-King.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:08 am As for the second spoiler, go back and listen to the wording - I don’t think it’s as specific as what you wrote. In fact I remember that part and specifically thinking they worded it in a way that hinted at ‘arrival’ w/o specifying how.

I very much got the impression that the two ‘events’ happened at the same time, but were separate. Or the wording made me think that it was an intentional loophole.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:15 am And about the dwarves:

Spoiler:

Is this where they got too greedy and released the Balrog?

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:44 pm For the latest episode ("Partings"), I only had a single question for the experts - mithril:

Spoiler:

Is the story they're telling about mithril cannon? I knew it was special and I knew about how the greed of dwarves unleashed the Balrog, but I didn't know about a (possible?) connection between mithril and the survival of the elves (as communicated by High King Gil-galad). Is this something made up for this story or is High King Gil-galad speculating (lying?) about the mithril because he too is greedy and wants access?

Additionally, regarding the mystery comet man and the overland travel montage:

Spoiler:

The traveling song was interesting, namely that the lyrics ended with "Not all those who wander are lost". Was that a nod to the idea that he's Gandalf or perhaps a misdirection?

Still enjoying it tremendously. I'd rank it far above the Wheel of Time at this point. I really like what they've done with the orcs - their look. I am sure some of it is related to makeup and camera trickery (covering them up, giving them skull helmets, etc...), but I think they look better than what was in the movies.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:46 pm At last some action. Where was that elf dude when Helm's Deep rolled around? And great fake out by the bad guys.

Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:14 am And I don't think we have ever once even seen a single fletcher in the background... come to think of it.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:38 pm Technically fletching is adding the feathers.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:59 am I must have not been paying close attention:

Spoiler:

Who is the blonde bitch with a buzz cut who burned out the hobbits?

Jaymann wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:59 am I must have not been paying close attention:

Spoiler:

Who is the blonde bitch with a buzz cut who burned out the hobbits?