Octopus Overlords

What does "two times weaker" actual translate to?

I'm not exactly sure. It's a weird way to phrase things and I haven't seen anyone ask WTF are they talking about (yet).

I suspect it ultimately translates to the % protected - like how they've said Pfizer is 88% effective against Delta. I don't know if "2 times weaker" ultimately translates to "Moderna is 89% effective against Delta and still 95% effective against parent strain in terms of preventing infection."

I totally made that quote up, so don't uh...quote me on that.

im still wondering if fully vaxx'd folk that do get covid can end up with long haul stuff anyways.

I think it was raised in another thread.

There belief is no, there isn't a long-term health consequence for people that are vaccinated that ultimately experience a break-through infection. However, I think it's mainly a guess at this point. Add in the fact that they're not tracking breakthrough cases or collecting data on vaccinated people that might have asymptomatic infections and I'm comfortable saying no one knows for sure. I'm hopeful the vaccines are protective against long-term health impacts but I think more studies (and data) are needed.

EDIT: To be clear, I think the general idea is that the vaccines should be protective - if the virus can't get a foothold, there's no reason to believe it would cause long-term damage. However, I think the real cases to watch are those that have symptomatic breakthrough infections (regardless of whether or not they require hospitalization).

EDIT 2: I'm also just seeing this, published today. Of note:

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that more than 114 million Americans had been infected with Covid-19 through March 2021. Factoring in new infections in unvaccinated people, we can conservatively expect more than 15 million cases of long Covid resulting from this pandemic.

I get so sick and tired of the media telling me that 99% of covid hospitalizations are people who didn't get their vaccinations.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:22 am I get so sick and tired of the media telling me that 99% of covid hospitalizations are people who didn't get their vaccinations.

Why the rolley-eyes? Seems like a good way to hammer home the point that everyone should get vaccinated (assuming that stat is accurate, of course).

Not as sick and tired as those who are in the hospital due to not having a vaccination.

Yeah. Why does that annoy you so much?

It is directed at those who are hesitant to get the vaccine, not the unfortunate few who cannot. And those stories serve to help protect those who cannot by encouraging those around them to be protected.

I'd imagine that those with ineligible family find them stressful, but in the end they are the ones benefiting the most.

I just think news should have the commercial character Captain Obvious report that news.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:39 am I just think news should have the commercial character Captain Obvious report that news.

The problem is that there is a large population of people for which that is not obvious.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:39 am I just think news should have the commercial character Captain Obvious report that news.

If that were true, there wouldn't be people left to vaccinate. Captain Obvious capped out at about 50%. The rest need to be beaten over the head with it until it sinks in.

In other words, people are stupid, and people are selfish. Consequences to others don't seem to phase them. You have to get them scared enough about their own welfare for them to act.

Massachusetts is offering people getting a vaccine the chance to win a million bucks or for minors a college scholarship. And I just got my vaccine for nothing like a sucker.

(the greater good is its own reward. Also avoiding the possibility of getting intubated is also its own reward)

All the negative rumors are effecting the distribution. Nanites are in the vaccine. It alters your DNA. It contains fetal cells. It affects female fertility.

We need positive rumors. Like 5% of men’s penises enlarged by 20% . 10% of men started having multiple orgasms. 15% of women grew a ½ to 1 cup size. 10% of women had less pain full menstrual cycles.
If they will believe the bad rumors ,maybe we can get them to believe the good ones.

make the vaccine also treat erectile dysfunction and watch as supply can't keep up with demand

$iljanus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:03 pm Massachusetts is offering people getting a vaccine the chance to win a million bucks or for minors a college scholarship. And I just got my vaccine for nothing like a sucker.

(the greater good is its own reward. Also avoiding the possibility of getting intubated is also its own reward)

Registration is open to ALL vaccinated Massholes. I just signed up me and Wife.

The odds are somewhat better than the regular lottery, since only 4.2 million people are vaxxed and not all of them will enter. "An eligible entry submitted before the entry deadline for any weekly drawing will remain entered for all later drawings," so you only need to sign up once to have five shots at 1:4,000,000 odds, more or less.

If it drives another half-million or so vaccinations, it was money well spent.

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:26 pm

$iljanus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:03 pm Massachusetts is offering people getting a vaccine the chance to win a million bucks or for minors a college scholarship. And I just got my vaccine for nothing like a sucker.

(the greater good is its own reward. Also avoiding the possibility of getting intubated is also its own reward)

Registration is open to ALL vaccinated Massholes. I just signed up me and Wife.

The odds are somewhat better than the regular lottery, since only 4.2 million people are vaxxed and not all of them will enter. "An eligible entry submitted before the entry deadline for any weekly drawing will remain entered for all later drawings," so you only need to sign up once to have five shots at 1:4,000,000 odds, more or less.

If it drives another half-million or so vaccinations, it was money well spent.

Really? Untold riches before taxes here I come then.

You’ve made my vaccinated daughter very happy. And if any of us win, we will be even happier and I’ll be glad to buy you a pint sometime!

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:18 pm make the vaccine also treat erectile dysfunction and watch as supply can't keep up with demand

https://youtube.com/clip/UgyAt6hCzLHitnY4FJJ4AaABCQ

$iljanus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:36 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:26 pm

$iljanus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:03 pm Massachusetts is offering people getting a vaccine the chance to win a million bucks or for minors a college scholarship. And I just got my vaccine for nothing like a sucker.

(the greater good is its own reward. Also avoiding the possibility of getting intubated is also its own reward)

Registration is open to ALL vaccinated Massholes. I just signed up me and Wife.

The odds are somewhat better than the regular lottery, since only 4.2 million people are vaxxed and not all of them will enter. "An eligible entry submitted before the entry deadline for any weekly drawing will remain entered for all later drawings," so you only need to sign up once to have five shots at 1:4,000,000 odds, more or less.

If it drives another half-million or so vaccinations, it was money well spent.

Really? Untold riches before taxes here I come then.

You’ve made my vaccinated daughter very happy. And if any of us win, we will be even happier and I’ll be glad to buy you a pint sometime!

Make it a keg.

In Arkansas we are speedily approaching herd immunity with 1/3 having the vaccination and 2/3 having caught the disease.

Now fully vaccinated! It's a great feeling.

Meanwhile still no word on the under-12 crowd. I know there are good reasons, but this still feels like a massive failure to not have that approved by start of school year, esp given that many states are making clear that masking won't be a thing.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:01 pm Meanwhile still no word on the under-12 crowd. I know there are good reasons, but this still feels like a massive failure to not have that approved by start of school year, esp given that many states are making clear that masking won't be a thing.

I'm watching, but unless things are happening under wraps, the best I've seen is September or October for 5-11 year olds, via Pfizer.

And that feels like a massive failure. Not like this date snuck up on anyone, and it's the most important deadline remaining.

I'd need to hear from researchers to figure out if there was any timetable that had it happening sooner, but I haven't seen anything like that being discussed.

I don't know if the original plans were built on the idea (hope?) that more Americans would be vaccinated by July or August than we're currently seeing now - and that they'd be protecting kids. Or if they weren't taking into account Delta and how quickly it's spreading. Unfortunately, I just don't think they can rush the results - whatever the time tables are, that's what they are.

The mask push back is real and it's another element I'm stunned over. There's a significant number of people that (1) won't vaccinate their kids and (2) are yelling that all kids should be unmasked.

I can only assume then that they believe the good will of others s protecting their kids -or- the virus is a hoax / doesn't affect children.

My daughter is set to volunteer at a school's day camp as an instructional helper. We just found out today that the camp (covering kids going into 6th grade up to 8th grade) is now mask optional, regardless of vaccination status.

If this is a preview of what's coming in September....pain.

But yes, I am in complete agreement that getting the last remaining group of people (kids) eligible for vaccination is a priority. I have genuine concern and sympathy for parents of children too young to be vaccinated right now; I know the majority of America has largely forgotten about you.

I know there are good reasons--like the question of ideal dosing for the younguns--I'm just frustrated since this is shaping up to be another avoidable clusterfuck.

It is, yes. I am (still) hopeful kids can largely be vaccinated before I'm expecting things to get bad again everywhere (late Oct/Nov), though that also is probably going to be dependent on overall vaccination levels and local mask policies.

Delta being kept in circulation this summer by people intentionally not vaccinating is beyond frustrating. It doesn't have to be this way (the mantra of the entire pandemic in 2020).

I'll certainly keep watching...

I read a story that vegas has nightlife returning when less than 50% have a single vaccine. That's crazy to think that many people just "cant be bothered". We are fully vaxxed and I was looking at booking a trip somewhere in the fall/winter, then stopped - I just can't see us going somewhere where the people aren't offered a vaccine yet (Mexico, Jamaica etc). Looks like staycations will be a thing here in Canada for awhile; and while I was the biggest critic of the initial rollout here - watching the lacklustre uptake elsewhere like the US where vaccines are readily available is a shame.

I've seen the after affects of covid on some people I know that didn't even end up in hospital, its a nasty illness and yet the apathy around vaccines is astounding. At least uptick seems to be progressing here around 78% one dose and 39% of Canada is fully dosed. Vaccine passports will need to be a thing to open the border, no exceptions or "process" for unvaccinated. No vaccine? Go back home.

Delta/Delta+ is going to be a real problem, that seems clear.

FishPants wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:03 pm I read a story that vegas has nightlife returning when less than 50% have a single vaccine. That's crazy to think that many people just "cant be bothered". We are fully vaxxed and I was looking at booking a trip somewhere in the fall/winter, then stopped - I just can't see us going somewhere where the people aren't offered a vaccine yet (Mexico, Jamaica etc). Looks like staycations will be a thing here in Canada for awhile; and while I was the biggest critic of the initial rollout here - watching the lacklustre uptake elsewhere like the US where vaccines are readily available is a shame.

I've seen the after affects of covid on some people I know that didn't even end up in hospital, its a nasty illness and yet the apathy around vaccines is astounding. At least uptick seems to be progressing here around 78% one dose and 39% of Canada is fully dosed. Vaccine passports will need to be a thing to open the border, no exceptions or "process" for unvaccinated. No vaccine? Go back home.

Delta/Delta+ is going to be a real problem, that seems clear.

Yeah, I agree. I don't know if it's just me, but I think the long wait including the number of shipment delays to procuring enough doses to get us all our first doses has made Canada quite grateful, not to mention patient. So when we see those holding out, it just seems unfathomable. The struggle, the hardship then to see holdouts? That just comes across as being incredibly selfsish to me.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:50 pm I know there are good reasons--like the question of ideal dosing for the younguns--I'm just frustrated since this is shaping up to be another avoidable clusterfuck.

Dr. Topol published an OpEd in the NYT (which you can read in full as a saved image) this morning:

Call for Full FDA approval of covid vaccines. The stakes could not be higher.

While this doesn't directly help kids under 12, it does make it more likely that companies, schools and organizations can now mandate vaccinations for adults.

I bet there aren't a thousand people in the US waiting for the 'full' approval, but I certainly agree it's way overdue. In theory at least, agreeing with you, once there's full approval, businesses can require the vaccine for further employment and that may get a lot more people vaccinated. I suspect that the CDC and various localities thought there would continue to be an uptick in people getting vaccinated but that apparently is not happening.

What's sad in Los Angeles is that Black people are the most resistant to getting the vaccine and of course they are getting sick and dying the most. Don't know what to say to that.

Lorini wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:10 pm I bet there aren't a thousand people in the US waiting for the 'full' approval, but I certainly agree it's way overdue.

Maybe not specifically, but I'd bet that the announcement that it was fully approved, especially if parroted by the press, could still have an impact on the vaccine hesitant that are waiting to see, more generally, 'if it is safe.'

I am with Lorini on this one. Yes, putting into full use will get some number of people willing to vaccinate. But my gut feeling is that the overwhelming majority of people invoking the EUA status as the reason for not vaccinating will move the goalpost. It's too new. Scientists don't really know if it's safe. I've made it this far without vaccinating, why bother now?

It's become Sisyphean in scope, trying to connect with a certain population of people over vaccinations.

What's sad in Los Angeles is that Black people are the most resistant to getting the vaccine and of course they are getting sick and dying the most. Don't know what to say to that.

I've long believed that trust is like a bank account and that Public Health has maintained a low balance in communities throughout the United States for decades. The best that can be done at this point is to make sure public health workers are partnering with community gate keepers and doing everything they can to bring vaccines to people and not just opening pop-up clinics and hoping people arrive.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:24 pm I am with Lorini on this one. Yes, putting into full use will get some number of people willing to vaccinate. But my gut feeling is that the overwhelming majority of people invoking the EUA status as the reason for not vaccinating will move the goalpost. It's too new. Scientists don't really know if it's safe. I've made it this far without vaccinating, why bother now?

If they can't be persuaded, then they need to be coerced. This will give employers a screw to turn. Nobody's going to hold the resisters down and come at them with a needle, but if they're really that dead-set against the vaccine, then they don't belong in health care (or education, or law enforcement, or the military, or what have you).

The Supreme Court would likely sustain a “religious or conscientious objector” status given the 6-3 conservative majority.

My youngest had her medical birthday in advance, but we have a health care coordinator in the family advising us on how bad it got earlier.

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:25 pm
If they can't be persuaded, then they need to be coerced. This will give employers a screw to turn. Nobody's going to hold the resisters down and come at them with a needle, but if they're really that dead-set against the vaccine, then they don't belong in health care (or education, or law enforcement, or the military, or what have you).

Exactly this. They might change their tune if their livelihood turns against them in a major way. My wife was reluctant to get the vaccine, and that really pissed me off. But when they came to her job to admiinister the vaccines in January, she dutifully complied. My sister, on the other hand, works for Walgreens. She is also refusing to get vaccinated so I am refusing to allow her anywhere near my kids.

That's impressive (and spendy). I'm sure you won't be surprised to learn I think we should be testing school kids anyway. I'd now expect the full-court press from parents raging against vaccines, masks and now frequent testing.

They’re just going to teach to the test anyway.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:24 pm I am with Lorini on this one. Yes, putting into full use will get some number of people willing to vaccinate. But my gut feeling is that the overwhelming majority of people invoking the EUA status as the reason for not vaccinating will move the goalpost. It's too new. Scientists don't really know if it's safe. I've made it this far without vaccinating, why bother now?

That's what I've been thinking as well. They're using it as an excuse, a delaying tactic. I have a friend who's using this exact line of thinking to give legitimacy to her being anti-vax. She even made an FB posting outlining her 'decision'. They're the ones who will move the goalposts once their current reasoning is invalidated. It's not legitimacy they're after. The sad thing is, they're the ones holding back progress for everyone else. The sooner everyone gets it done, the sooner everything can start to return to a sense of normalcy. In a sense, they're sabotaging their own efforts by holding out.