Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:12 am**

The Empire Strikes Back?

Ike_Saul wrote:Robinhood is no longer allowing users to do anything but close out their #GME or #AMC positions. Hard to put into words how outrageous that is. This is, much more acutely, the definition of manipulating the market.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:19 am**

Is that even legal, assuming they are not using margin? I don't sign up for a brokerage to have access to *part* of the public markets.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:19 am**

Must mean Citadel is done milking it. They pay Robinhood for orderflow. If they say no mas, it's no mas.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:22 am**

And GME is cratering now.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:27 am**

Q4 up but...

https://www.bea.gov/news/2021/gross-dom ... e-estimate

Real GDP decreased 3.5 percent in 2020 (from the 2019 annual level to the 2020 annual level), compared with an increase of 2.2 percent in 2019 (table 1).

The decrease in real GDP in 2020 reflected decreases in PCE, exports, private inventory investment, nonresidential fixed investment, and state and local government that were partly offset by increases in federal government spending and residential fixed investment. Imports decreased (table 2).

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:38 am**

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:19 am Must mean Citadel is done milking it. They pay Robinhood for orderflow. If they say no mas, it's no mas.

Too much exposure to risk of getting caught rigging the game. The post above about 'THE WRONG INVISIBLE HAND' really stands out now.

Edit: On the lighter side

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:44 am**

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:22 am And GME is cratering now.

Even without Robinhood, GME managed to go up $90 in ten minutes after opening after cratering to roughly $260 at market open from the $440 highs. Looks like trading has been halted on it for now.

AMC went down to $12 but managed to get back to $16 before it got halted for a bit, too.

KOSS opened at $74 but is back to $113.

The people I know who only trade on Robinhood and got caught in the GME hype are unhappy, though.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:48 am**

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:52 am**

Well there is the populist angle I was waiting for.

Edit: Apropos CNBC just ran a segment talking about how this is populist outrage.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:59 am**

Will be interesting to see the impact on Robinhood customer retention. I imagine there are a lot of furious users right now. I'd certainly be bailing.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:01 am**

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:59 am Will be interesting to see the impact on Robinhood customer retention. I imagine there are a lot of furious users right now. I'd certainly be bailing.

Doesn't Robinhood want to go public soon, too? I'm sure the optics on that won't look great.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:04 am**

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:59 am Will be interesting to see the impact on Robinhood customer retention. I imagine there are a lot of furious users right now. I'd certainly be bailing.

I dunno. I'm furious with TD/Schuab for their abrupt decision to change their policy for equities via a vague post. But at the same time, they aren't eating my face, so I'm keeping on with my right or wrong investing with the intent to primarily buy and hold until I can get retirement in my sights.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:05 am**

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:59 am Will be interesting to see the impact on Robinhood customer retention. I imagine there are a lot of furious users right now. I'd certainly be bailing.

I have no skin in this game, but this action obviously pisses all over their "Robinhood" branding.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:07 am**

By the way, is the appeal of Robinhood that they let *anyone* do margin investing (reminds me of the guy who committed suicide because Robinhood showed him with a -$270k balance once)? I actually have to apply to get margin added to my Schwab account.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:19 am**

pr0ner wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:07 am By the way, is the appeal of Robinhood that they let *anyone* do margin investing (reminds me of the guy who committed suicide because Robinhood showed him with a -$270k balance once)? I actually have to apply to get margin added to my Schwab account.

I was under the impression Robinhood appeal was:

1) The first of the "no fee" houses for equity trades.
2) Fractional share trading
3) They give you stuff to sign up
4) They UI is like slot machine with a sense of reward for just taking action.
5) Word of mouth. It's appealing because it's appealing to others

I never heard of their margin trading requirements before.

I don't have Robinhood. TD (was Scottrade and will be Schwab) requires applying for Margins/Options, etc... and they do evaluate and approve, though I don't know the criteria. I don't want margin trading. If I don't have the money, I have not business risking it. I didn't even start a portfolio until I had 0 debt and built my savings a bit after paying off my mortgage. Not that this is right or wrong, just that I have an aversion to the idea of trying to leverage more than I have... and then being stupid, like I too often am.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:23 am**

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:19 am
pr0ner wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:07 am By the way, is the appeal of Robinhood that they let *anyone* do margin investing (reminds me of the guy who committed suicide because Robinhood showed him with a -$270k balance once)? I actually have to apply to get margin added to my Schwab account.
I was under the impression Robinhood appeal was:

1) The first of the "no fee" houses for equity trades.
2) Fractional share trading
3) They give you stuff to sign up
4) They UI is like slot machine with a sense of reward for just taking action.
5) Word of mouth. It's appealing because it's appealing to others

I never heard of their margin trading requirements before.

I don't have Robinhood. TD (was Scottrade and will be Schwab) requires applying for Margins/Options, etc... and they do evaluate and approve, though I don't know the criteria. I don't want margin trading. If I don't have the money, I have not business risking it. I didn't even start a portfolio until I had 0 debt and built my savings a bit after paying off my mortgage. Not that this is right or wrong, just that I have an aversion to the idea of trying to leverage more than I have... and then being stupid, like I too often am.

Apparently, all you have to do on Robinhood is pay $5 a month and you get access to margin trading and before/after hours trading, no questions asked.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:26 am**

Buying some ANDA this morning. Not a WSB trade, just caught my eye based on screens and charts and building up a position. Average cost right now is $11.68. Speculative short term.

Trying to add SLGD ($2.50 or below). Speculative long term.

The problem right now is you can't be sure if any action is WSB disapora or what. Is there even any point until this all shakes out?

Both are small positions, these are what I play with while watching big positions in F, TSM, AMZN, OSTK.

CRON snuck into the top 5, might need to look at trimming it.

Just noticed that Carrier is up 128% since splitting off from UTX.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:27 am**

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:04 am
Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:59 am Will be interesting to see the impact on Robinhood customer retention. I imagine there are a lot of furious users right now. I'd certainly be bailing.
I dunno. I'm furious with TD/Schuab for their abrupt decision to change their policy for equities via a vague post. But at the same time, they aren't eating my face, so I'm keeping on with my right or wrong investing with the intent to primarily buy and hold until I can get retirement in my sights.

I'm also with TD, and didn't like that move. But I view it as entirely different, as it only impacted margin trades. I can allow them some leeway when margin is involved. They took no action (AFAICT) to restrict me from trading using my own money.

Also not pleased that ToS had a major faceplant yesterday morning. Happened while I was working to close out AMC and while I fought it, the price dropped a couple bucks. Small potatoes but I'd be displeased if that position had any teeth.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:37 am**

Ally invest was completely down yesterday and today (will close that account next week).
TD and Fidelity were down on the open yesterday, slow most of the day and sketchy this morning.
Even IAB was slow.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:44 am**

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:37 am Ally invest was completely down yesterday and today (will close that account next week).
TD and Fidelity were down on the open yesterday, slow most of the day and sketchy this morning.
Even IAB was slow.

Schwab was quite slow this morning when I was poking around on the app, too.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:52 am**

Those platform outages are probably half of the panic. If I was at my old firm, I suspect I would have heard directly that some of those firms had direct DDOS attacks on top of the trading volume increase.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:56 am**

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:52 am Those platform outages are probably half of the panic. If I was at my old firm, I suspect I would have heard directly that some of those firms had direct DDOS attacks on top of the trading volume increase.

DDOS keeps the reets from selling.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:01 pm**

GME $275 (and dropping...now $255 as I'm about to hit submit), KOSS $65, AMC $9.25 (though I've seen it lower today)

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:02 pm**

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:56 am
malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:52 am Those platform outages are probably half of the panic. If I was at my old firm, I suspect I would have heard directly that some of those firms had direct DDOS attacks on top of the trading volume increase.
DDOS keeps the reets from selling.

Sure but I used to be on the inside and banks are constantly and I mean *constantly* fending off DDOS attacks. So there are multiple possibilities. A likely is that the DDOS protection mistook a bunch of retailers piling in as a DDOS and shunted the traffic. That the mobile platform was busted but the web platform wasn't says a lot to me too architecture wise. It could have been API control failures. Another threat case is someone thought it'd be to their advantage to disrupt trading. That includes nation states. People would be surprised how much defense the markets are running daily.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:07 pm**

pr0ner wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:01 pm GME $275 (and dropping...now $255 as I'm about to hit submit), KOSS $65, AMC $9.25 (though I've seen it lower today)

Took a quick look and Fidelity is citing a Call to Put ratio of 1:3.2 with 99% > 5% OTM

Would love to see some bands showing where the volume is occurring in terms of expiry vs strike

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:08 pm**

I meant that a DDOS was a good way to stop reets from selling. If someone were so inclined.

KOSS and GME are halted, gonna crater on open.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:10 pm**

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:08 pm I meant that a DDOS was a good way to stop reets from selling. If someone were so inclined.

Yeah and I went down the rabbit hole a little based on being a stalwart defender of that machine. I miss knowing more when crazy things like this happen.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:15 pm**

I dared to suggest on the group chat where people are furious about GME that there are other places to invest your money beyond Robinhood (and GME for that matter). That didn't go over well.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:17 pm**

pr0ner wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:15 pm I dared to suggest on the group chat where people are furious about GME that there are other places to invest your money beyond Robinhood (and GME for that matter). That didn't go over well.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:40 pm**

Chutes and ladders.

Down down down goes my BGS, NOK, PBI, and ACI. All of which were cheaper positions I bought that were taking on stupid inexplicable ups in the last two weeks. Said down, down, down, is being completely canceled by covered calls also going down down down for the moment. BGS in particular down 14.5% or $6 down to $35ish, which is still a premium, IMO. $32.50 May 21 call is down 37% or from $11ish to $7ish.

What a day, week, month...

I need to take more and more pieces off the table ad they become reasonable to do so.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:48 pm**

KOSS has crashed down to $28.33. That's down almost $100 a share from 2 hours ago.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:01 pm**

So Tastyworks had their Custodian (Apex) force a bunch of the reddit driven stocks to close only.

Sounds like there is a lot of pressure out there to cut off buy access to these stocks by retail investors.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:17 pm**

Send in the lawyers.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:36 pm**

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:38 pm**

xwraith wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:01 pm So Tastyworks had their Custodian (Apex) force a bunch of the reddit driven stocks to close only.

Sounds like there is a lot of pressure out there to cut off buy access to these stocks by retail investors.

I'm glad I'm just a buy and hold investor though it pisses me off I have to pay secret rent to these jackals.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:47 pm**

pr0ner wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:48 pm KOSS has crashed down to $28.33. That's down almost $100 a share from 2 hours ago.

Another $23 or so and we can pretend this never happened.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:55 pm**

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:47 pm
pr0ner wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:48 pm KOSS has crashed down to $28.33. That's down almost $100 a share from 2 hours ago.
Another $23 or so and we can pretend this never happened.

I'm sure it'll get back there eventually.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:58 pm**

pr0ner wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:55 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:47 pm
pr0ner wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:48 pm KOSS has crashed down to $28.33. That's down almost $100 a share from 2 hours ago.
Another $23 or so and we can pretend this never happened.
I'm sure it'll get back there eventually.

Eventually. There are a lot of people who see KOSS as a $50 or $75 stock, merely because it was just $100+, and will "bargain shop".

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:43 pm**

They just rolled a TD executive out on tv. He seems to be claiming that they didn't prevent any trading of the *actual stocks* but instead new rules for *options*. Well that certainly wasn't clear.

Edit: IB Chairman just came on and said they stopped the trading because they were concerned about the health of the markets and the viability of the market, load on clearing houses, and reduce unprecedented volatility. That explanation is nothing short of outrageous. If a bunch of retail traders putting in orders is dangerous to the market what the heck is going on. This interview is not going to play well.

Edit 2: The CNBC anchor gave him a bit of a hard time about this. ( To paraphrase) "You changed the rules in the middle of the game. Do you understand the anger of your customers?"

Edit 3: The end of the interview was him basically saying...they were trading wrong. This is going to blow up.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:30 pm**

The random GME spike to $493 and AMC spike to $20.61 just after 2 PM is interesting.

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