Re: Can authoritarianism exist on the left?
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:12 pm
Whew, I don't feel THAT old now.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons bring us some web forums whereupon we can gather
https://www.octopusoverlords.com/forum/
https://www.octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=98555
Only if bizarro trump is stupid enough to let power go. I'd hope to god our Jan 6 would succeed.Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:02 pmEverything else aside, you're not going to be able to target your revenge plans against the 1%. You're going to be hitting the street level voters, who will then turn around and give us another Trump promising them revenge against us. Back and forth, back and forth. And that's the easiest, laziest way to guarantee everyone loses.Drazzil wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:40 pmI believe that the lack of turning the carceral state on the 1% is exactly why we are here in the first place. Not to use it to kick the shit out of em will just ensure more of this sort of thing happens in the future.
If he brings the revolution about one second sooner, then yes. Trump really did what I wanted him to. He pulled the mask off for everyone to see. Exposed the moral bankruptcy of the system for everyone to see. Now everyone knows what the Republicans are. He also showed people what the Democrats are.
And because we let them up too easily we find ourselves having to fight yet *ANOTHER* civil war. Why it's almost like appeasement doesn't work, Funny that.Holman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:12 pm Drazzil seems to assume that any violent political revolution somehow necessarily serves the common good.
He should remember that the last violent revolution we saw in this country was launched in the name of preserving slavery and white supremacy, and that Trump's movement is aimed at giving all that another try.
You know. When I talk about exercising violence against a relatively small group of people, people totally lose their shit. But when the system those people run kills tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands in a day, it's met not with a call for revolution or reform... But in a collective shrug and the platitude that we're better off in the system then not have one at all. Odd.Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:18 pm When I was a teenager I spouted a lot of HULK SMASH GOVERNMENT rhetoric. One day my dad asked me what we revolutionaries were going to put in its place and how we were going to do that. Even as the words "we'll figure that out when the time comes" were leaving my lips, I knew he was right. I hated when my dad was right so I kept on rooting for anarchy anyway, but my heart wasn't in it anymore. The system that gave us Nixon and Vietnam and Watergate was rotten, but it took me a long time to understand that us little people wouldn't survive having no system at all.
Because if you think that it would actually work that way, you're delusional. You engage in violence against a small group of people. What do you think their supporters respond with? And against whom? And if we replace that small group of people with people we like and the other people don't like them? Do you think they'll wait for an election after what we did?
Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:52 pm That was what started communist governments. The peasants think it is not fair that some people are richer and more successful so they slaughter or jail the rich and elite then replace them with a new sets of elite ruling party. End result, the regular peasants are still being oppressed and mostly have it worse than before the revolution. Except this time, you can't protest because the government will throw you in jail for doing that.
LMFTFYDrazzil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:45 amVictoria Raverna wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:52 pm That was what started communist governments. The peasants think it is not fair that some people are richer and more successful so they slaughter or jail the rich and elite then replace them with a new sets of elite ruling party. End result, the regular peasants are still being oppressed and mostly have it worse than before the revolution. Except this time, you can't protest because the government will throw you in jail for doing that.
As kraken noted, most of us grow out of our naive romanticism of revolution. I hope someday you do as well. The reality of it is horrifying. Far more so than even the ridiculously over exaggerated view of our current world you seem to have.
*Waves a Bizzaro lefty Trump 24 flag*Kurth wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:47 pm Drazzil epitomizes the lefty version of a Trumpaloo (and, to be clear, he’s not alone out here in Portland). There is next to no difference between the two. Can’t you just picture Drazzil at a Bizzaro Lefty Trump rally cheering as some conservative heckler gets the shit kicked out of him?
I don't like what's for dinner cause I keep getting shit sandwiches and everyone gets hamburger. People tell me I should keep voting for the kitchen but I know that regardless of what else changes. I'm still only getting shit sandwiches. So I'm gonna burn down that kitchen. Yes.Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:25 amLMFTFYDrazzil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:45 amVictoria Raverna wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:52 pm That was what started communist governments. The peasants think it is not fair that some people are richer and more successful so they slaughter or jail the rich and elite then replace them with a new sets of elite ruling party. End result, the regular peasants are still being oppressed and mostly have it worse than before the revolution. Except this time, you can't protest because the government will throw you in jail for doing that.
In any case, I knew you were unashamed of your Trump vote, and I was pretty sure you’d be capable of doing it again.
Truth is, you have no solution. You don’t like what’s for dinner and you are willing to burn the kitchen down. Ah yes, but you don’t like shopping for food and you can’t be bothered to cook.
Let’s say you got your dream, and let’s say all of Congress, President , and the entire judicial community was snapped out of existence....Thanos style... What/who do you think would suddenly go up in their place? How would you guide or direct that new reality away from our current situation?
I don’t think you have a single idea there. And that’s why everyone thinks your ‘burn it down’ solution is so stupid and juvenile.
If you are paying attention, just about all of us think this system is indeed broken in one way or another.
I’ll say this: I also feel like some things would be helped if only a few key people would indeed - die. But in my head, it’s kinda critical that they just ‘die’ and are not killed as martyrs for their cause, because I’m not an idiot and I understand how that would play out.
Someday you may realize it’s because you yourself keep ordering the shit sandwich. Most of us here are ordering the hamburger…well, except me. I’m eating the Monte Cristo.Drazzil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:08 pm
I don't like what's for dinner cause I keep getting shit sandwiches and everyone gets hamburger. People tell me I should keep voting for the kitchen but I know that regardless of what else changes. I'm still only getting shit sandwiches. So I'm gonna burn down that kitchen. Yes.
With a side of fried sauerkraut balls. Damn, I miss Barley’s.hepcat wrote:
Someday you may realize it’s because you yourself keep ordering the shit sandwich. Most of us here are ordering the hamburger…well, except me. I’m eating the Monte Cristo.
hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:36 pmSomeday you may realize it’s because you yourself keep ordering the shit sandwich.Drazzil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:08 pm
I don't like what's for dinner cause I keep getting shit sandwiches and everyone gets hamburger. People tell me I should keep voting for the kitchen but I know that regardless of what else changes. I'm still only getting shit sandwiches. So I'm gonna burn down that kitchen. Yes.
The Grandmaster had this to say:Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:25 amLMFTFYDrazzil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:45 amVictoria Raverna wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:52 pm That was what started communist governments. The peasants think it is not fair that some people are richer and more successful so they slaughter or jail the rich and elite then replace them with a new sets of elite ruling party. End result, the regular peasants are still being oppressed and mostly have it worse than before the revolution. Except this time, you can't protest because the government will throw you in jail for doing that.
In any case, I knew you were unashamed of your Trump vote, and I was pretty sure you’d be capable of doing it again.
Truth is, you have no solution. You don’t like what’s for dinner and you are willing to burn the kitchen down. Ah yes, but you don’t like shopping for food and you can’t be bothered to cook.
Let’s say you got your dream, and let’s say all of Congress, President , and the entire judicial community was snapped out of existence....Thanos style... What/who do you think would suddenly go up in their place? How would you guide or direct that new reality away from our current situation?
I don’t think you have a single idea there. And that’s why everyone thinks your ‘burn it down’ solution is so stupid and juvenile.
If you are paying attention, just about all of us think this system is indeed broken in one way or another.
I’ll say this: I also feel like some things would be helped if only a few key people would indeed - die. But in my head, it’s kinda critical that they just ‘die’ and are not killed as martyrs for their cause, because I’m not an idiot and I understand how that would play out.
It usually serves someone's common good.Holman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:12 pm Drazzil seems to assume that any violent political revolution somehow necessarily serves the common good.
He should remember that the last violent revolution we saw in this country was launched in the name of preserving slavery and white supremacy, and that Trump's movement is aimed at giving all that another try.
You know Trump prolly got my mom killed during early COVID right? And that I said I would never vote for Trump again right?Drazzil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:08 pmI don't like what's for dinner cause I keep getting shit sandwiches and everyone gets hamburger. People tell me I should keep voting for the kitchen but I know that regardless of what else changes. I'm still only getting shit sandwiches. So I'm gonna burn down that kitchen. Yes.Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:25 amLMFTFYDrazzil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:45 amVictoria Raverna wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:52 pm That was what started communist governments. The peasants think it is not fair that some people are richer and more successful so they slaughter or jail the rich and elite then replace them with a new sets of elite ruling party. End result, the regular peasants are still being oppressed and mostly have it worse than before the revolution. Except this time, you can't protest because the government will throw you in jail for doing that.
In any case, I knew you were unashamed of your Trump vote, and I was pretty sure you’d be capable of doing it again.
Truth is, you have no solution. You don’t like what’s for dinner and you are willing to burn the kitchen down. Ah yes, but you don’t like shopping for food and you can’t be bothered to cook.
Let’s say you got your dream, and let’s say all of Congress, President , and the entire judicial community was snapped out of existence....Thanos style... What/who do you think would suddenly go up in their place? How would you guide or direct that new reality away from our current situation?
I don’t think you have a single idea there. And that’s why everyone thinks your ‘burn it down’ solution is so stupid and juvenile.
If you are paying attention, just about all of us think this system is indeed broken in one way or another.
I’ll say this: I also feel like some things would be helped if only a few key people would indeed - die. But in my head, it’s kinda critical that they just ‘die’ and are not killed as martyrs for their cause, because I’m not an idiot and I understand how that would play out.
It's like you didn't watch Westworld...or I guess read Shakespeare.Drazzil wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:39 pm Hell. I might even show up to a Jan 6 for BLT. Hopefully this time would go differently. Why? Because for the supreme court and M4A and a green new deal it would be worth it. Because someone who could do all that would be like a Lincoln or an FDR. In a century, yes in a century American historians would be debating on whether BLT had to be so mean to the conservatives when he did all of those very necessary things for the country.
These violent delights have violent ends
This time when the successor (an adult child perhaps?) of our late and dearly departed BLT decides to go back to war with the same forces of hate and conservativism they don't end reconstruction early.Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:53 pmIt's like you didn't watch Westworld...or I guess read Shakespeare.Drazzil wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:39 pm Hell. I might even show up to a Jan 6 for BLT. Hopefully this time would go differently. Why? Because for the supreme court and M4A and a green new deal it would be worth it. Because someone who could do all that would be like a Lincoln or an FDR. In a century, yes in a century American historians would be debating on whether BLT had to be so mean to the conservatives when he did all of those very necessary things for the country.
These violent delights have violent ends
Westworld was a bit confusing and well, the bard was always a trifle archaic.Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:53 pmIt's like you didn't watch Westworld...or I guess read Shakespeare.Drazzil wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:39 pm Hell. I might even show up to a Jan 6 for BLT. Hopefully this time would go differently. Why? Because for the supreme court and M4A and a green new deal it would be worth it. Because someone who could do all that would be like a Lincoln or an FDR. In a century, yes in a century American historians would be debating on whether BLT had to be so mean to the conservatives when he did all of those very necessary things for the country.
These violent delights have violent ends
So you want your BLT, but hold the Waco?
I think it was the combination of Ruby Ridge and Waco happening in such close proximity time wise. People on the right often talk about them in the same breath. It involved most of the same agencies and IIRC the FBI agent in charge was the same in both.
With the Waco sauce please.