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Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:20 am
by Alefroth
Seattleites can still afford beer? Huh.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:22 pm
by Moliere
'It's definitely backfiring': Seattle ordinance intended to help app delivery workers is 'hurting' them
The Pay Up Legislation, as the city regards it, was meant to improve wages for gig workers by entitling them to "minimum pay," or in other words, pay based on the time worked and miles traveled for each offer.
Doordash, as we've reported, has stated their Dashers will get paid more: at least $26.40 per hour before tips, in their estimation.
"They’re not telling the whole story," Shagen said. "Assuming that you are working constantly, then yes, you're going to be making that much money. But that's not what's happening right now. Because people are not ordering as much anymore. The tips are going down because they think we're making all this money."
One driver shared how much he made on this week last year: $931. But this week, he only made $464.81.
I think the solution is to raise the fees even more to guarantee the desired wages.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:15 am
by GreenGoo
Moliere wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:22 pm
I think the solution is to raise the fees even more to guarantee the desired wages.
Why? I had no idea app delivery businesses had such razor thin margins. You would think it would be almost all pure profit, given the small operating costs of supporting an app while pushing health care and car maintenance onto their "employees".
Pure. Profit.
Note: Uber does offer health care benefits in some countries.
Note: Doordashers "helps" their drivers sign up for government offered health insurance. L.O.L.
The article is such bullshit. Interview 3 drivers, write down their anecdotes as fact and universal, and bam, the entire industry is getting screwed in Seattle.
Can we please get some fucking data on this, you policy propaganda spewing news mills?
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:53 am
by LawBeefaroni
They are barely profitable, if profitable at all. They're still in the phase where they try to kill all other delivery services. They spend a ton on marketing, advertising, and promotional credits to get customers and businesses in their infrastructure.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:30 am
by Isgrimnur
And then comes the enshittification of the winner(s).
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:34 am
by GreenGoo
First, I don't actually believe that. Operating an app is 90% upfront costs, and app maintenance is significantly less. They have none of the traditional expenses or operating costs of a traditional business. No manufacturing materials, minimal HR, no shipping, R&D etc. They push some operating expenses onto the employee already.
If they are unable to compete without starving their drivers, then fuck that business model. It's broken. You offer your employees nothing but a shitty wage, then cry when one of the only operating costs you have increases. ALL operating costs go up, all the time, forever! This has to be part of your business model.
So no, I don't believe that they are barely scrapping by, but if they are, they deserve to die and the drivers find something else that is less shitty.
Some business models are untenable. I'm sick of building business on the sweat and blood of the employees, while giving them as little as legally possible, then crying when that legal limit is moved slightly.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:44 am
by Isgrimnur
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:44 am
by GreenGoo
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:53 am
They are barely profitable, if profitable at all. They're still in the phase where they try to kill all other delivery services. They spend a ton on marketing, advertising, and promotional credits to get customers and businesses in their infrastructure.
Looking at DoorDash, when you have annual revenue over 2 billion but can't make a profit, perhaps the issue is not your employees.
edit: Bammed by izzy.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:44 am
by LawBeefaroni
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:34 am
First, I don't actually believe that. Operating an app is 90% upfront costs, and app maintenance is significantly less. They have none of the traditional expenses or operating costs of a traditional business. No manufacturing materials, minimal HR, no shipping, R&D etc. They push some operating expenses onto the employee already.
If they are unable to compete without starving their drivers, then fuck that business model. It's broken. You offer your employees nothing but a shitty wage, then cry when one of the only operating costs you have increases. ALL operating costs go up, all the time, forever! This has to be part of your business model.
So no, I don't believe that they are barely scrapping by, but if they are, they deserve to die and the drivers find something else that is less shitty.
Some business models are untenable. I'm sick of building business on the sweat and blood of the employees, while giving them as little as legally possible, then crying when that legal limit is moved slightly.
They aren't trying to turn a profit. They are trying to generate revenue and use debt to pour into taking over markets. It's not a broken business model, it's their strategy. Uber, Walmart, Family Dollar, Tesla...
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/char ... net-income
DoorDash net income for the quarter ending September 30, 2023 was $-0.073B, a 75.25% decline year-over-year.
DoorDash net income for the twelve months ending September 30, 2023 was $-1.044B, a 18.64% increase year-over-year.
DoorDash annual net income for 2022 was $-1.365B, a 191.67% increase from 2021.
DoorDash annual net income for 2021 was $-0.468B, a 1.52% increase from 2020.
DoorDash annual net income for 2020 was $-0.461B, a 30.99% decline from 2019.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:47 am
by GreenGoo
Operating at a loss until you have a monopoly and can hold the customer hostage is an anti-capitalist strategy.
I thought America was capitalism greater than everything?
Yeah, the problem is greedy "employees" and socialism.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:51 am
by Isgrimnur
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:44 am
edit: Bammed by izzy.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:51 am
by Isgrimnur
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:47 am
Operating at a loss until you have a monopoly and can hold the customer hostage is an anti-capitalist strategy.
I thought America was capitalism greater than everything?
Yeah, the problem is greedy "employees" and socialism.
Marketing isn't just advertising.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:52 am
by GreenGoo
Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:51 am
Marketing isn't just advertising.
Agreed. Please elaborate.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:54 am
by LawBeefaroni
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:47 am
Operating at a loss until you have a monopoly and can hold the customer hostage is an anti-capitalist strategy.
I thought America was capitalism greater than everything?
Yeah, the problem is greedy "employees" and socialism.
It's what they're doing. I don't like it but it's the new way.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:55 am
by Isgrimnur
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:52 am
Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:51 am
Marketing isn't just advertising.
Agreed. Please elaborate.
Lobbying, anti-union activities, community outreach, greenwashing, supply chain manipulation/integration, etc.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:00 pm
by GreenGoo
Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:55 am
Lobbying, anti-union activities, community outreach, greenwashing, supply chain manipulation/integration, etc.
No, I mean why are you telling me/us this?
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:01 pm
by GreenGoo
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:54 am
It's what they're doing. I don't like it but it's the new way.
Fair enough.
I have zero sympathy for them so when Moliere posts that Seattle is a problem because they are letting corporations abuse their employees slightly less than everywhere else, I get annoyed.
edit: I realize I haven't written it out, even though I think it's acknowledged in my follow up posts, but I'll write it out so it's clear.
I was wrong about their profitability. They aren't profitable. Which is hilarious.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:10 pm
by Pyperkub
Oh, they are profitable... for some. Look at the tripling of Administrative costs in a year. Someone's getting paid...
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:22 pm
by Isgrimnur
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:00 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:55 am
Lobbying, anti-union activities, community outreach, greenwashing, supply chain manipulation/integration, etc.
No, I mean why are you telling me/us this?
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:47 am
Operating at a loss until you have a monopoly and can hold the customer hostage is an anti-capitalist strategy.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:24 pm
by GreenGoo
I'm not following. Monopolies are inherently anti-capitalism, which is predicated on healthy competition ensuring fairness for the consumer because they have a choice.
What has marketing to do with this?
Or are you saying they have more expenses than I implied? Fine, but it's STILL far less than most industries. FAR less.
Lawbeef wanted to distinguish between business model and business strategy, which is fine, but doesn't change much from my perspective, because strategy is part of the model.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:28 pm
by Pyperkub
Eh, if one posits the UK as the origination of capitalism, then the East India Trading Co. (explicitly a monopoly, was the archetype.
Monopolies are definitely anti-competitive, but a lot of capitalism is based on monopoly behavior, and checks on that impulse.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:02 pm
by GreenGoo
Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:28 pm
Eh, if one posits the UK as the origination of capitalism, then the East India Trading Co. (explicitly a monopoly, was the archetype.
Monopolies are definitely anti-competitive, but a lot of capitalism is based on monopoly behavior, and checks on that impulse.
Adam Smith.
Without competition a corporation is hardly different from a government enforced monopoly. Where do government monopolies fall in the capitalism spectrum?
Does it change anything if you starve your competition to death or the government shoots it in the head?
Capitalism is more than the exploitation of resources.
Re: Seattle hates jobs
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:54 pm
by Pyperkub
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:02 pm
Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:28 pm
Eh, if one posits the UK as the origination of capitalism, then the East India Trading Co. (explicitly a monopoly, was the archetype.
Monopolies are definitely anti-competitive, but a lot of capitalism is based on monopoly behavior, and checks on that impulse.
Adam Smith.
Without competition a corporation is hardly different from a government enforced monopoly. Where do government monopolies fall in the capitalism spectrum?
Does it change anything if you starve your competition to death or the government shoots it in the head?
Capitalism is more than the exploitation of resources.
Well familiar with Adam Smith, but while he argues for free markets, the reality is that what he was describing was very much informed by the East India Trading Co. Gov't granted monopoly, which he hated, but it still persisted.
Good for beer sales, not so much for soda sales.
