Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:01 pm**

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:11 am
jztemple2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:35 pm I found that ammo was something that had to be managed but I always seemed to have just enough.
Did you ever have enough for heavy automatic weapons to be viable?

At least not here - yet (about 1/2 way through the map).

Also, I get why they streamlined the squad stash for ammo but its a bit lean in total amount (IRL a squad of six soldiers averaging 6 extra magazines @ 30 each would have roughly twice (1,080) the amount of what they allow stacked (500) for the squad in game). Also, if you take all in a sector when you are close to the limit it doesn't leave the extra in the laying in the sector stash - it is lost

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:23 pm**

Tampa_Gamer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:01 pm Also, I get why they streamlined the squad stash for ammo but its a bit lean in total amount (IRL a squad of six soldiers averaging 6 extra magazines @ 30 each would have roughly twice (1,080) the amount of what they allow stacked (500) for the squad in game). Also, if you take all in a sector when you are close to the limit it doesn't leave the extra in the laying in the sector stash - it is lost

That's not what I'm seeing. My primary squad has 1215 rounds of 9mm standard in the squad stash, in 2 full stacks of 500 and a partial stack of 215.

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:36 pm**

Tampa_Gamer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:01 pm
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:11 am
jztemple2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:35 pm I found that ammo was something that had to be managed but I always seemed to have just enough.
Did you ever have enough for heavy automatic weapons to be viable?
At least not here - yet (about 1/2 way through the map).

Also, I get why they streamlined the squad stash for ammo but its a bit lean in total amount (IRL a squad of six soldiers averaging 6 extra magazines @ 30 each would have roughly twice (1,080) the amount of what they allow stacked (500) for the squad in game). Also, if you take all in a sector when you are close to the limit it doesn't leave the extra in the laying in the sector stash - it is lost

If you're up for modding, take, in a butcherly manner, a look at this: Ammo better icons and stack 750. It lets you see ammo types at a glance (no more squinting at the tiny writing on the tiny box), and increases stack size. Or, for simpler installation, the version on Nexus.

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:46 pm**

Max Peck wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:23 pm That's not what I'm seeing. My primary squad has 1215 rounds of 9mm standard in the squad stash, in 2 full stacks of 500 and a partial stack of 215.

oh, Wow - OK I will go back a save or two and test again - I want to be wrong about this.

Blackhawk, appreciate the heads-up on that. I am actually using the descriptive change portion (QoL) only mod by that author because my eyes are pretty bad after 50+ years of video gaming and I was squinting quite heavily to read the calibres each time.

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:54 pm**

I'm trying not to run too many mods right now (before the game has its first big patch, and before the modding tools are actually released), but I did add one that lets you scrap ammo for 1/2 of the resources, and one that lets you scrap knives.

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:09 pm**

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:11 am
jztemple2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:35 pm I found that ammo was something that had to be managed but I always seemed to have just enough.
Did you ever have enough for heavy automatic weapons to be viable?

Yes, but I never had more than one LMG in a squad and any merc carrying it also had a good ranged weapon too, so the LMG was only used for parts of combat. In fact I wasn't happy with LMG usage as the firer had to go prone for arc coverage and that left them without cover protection. I also didn't have someone who was really good with it I ended up scrapping them in the mid-game. During the late game I got Fauda who has the Heavy Duty talent, the Heavy Weapons trait and the Ironclad perk, the combination of which meant she was just the person to use the LMG effectively.

And I got her a Minimi LMG with a bipod which made her a lot more effective as an LMG user.

The combination made overwatch worth the trouble as she cause more damage and could pick up, move and reposition several squares away. And she could use the Minimi in the direct fire role very well as she had enough AP to get off three bursts.

Regarding ammo, she was the only one equipped with a 5.56mm weapon so she had plenty of AP ammo for the several combats she was in. This is something to keep in mind, not just for LMGs but for all your mercs, know who used what ammo and be prepared to craft more if needed. I didn't do any crafting till the late game when I was preparing to go up against some significant opponents. Ten of my twelve mercs in my two assault squads had Dragunovs so I needed a lot of 7.62mm WP AP, so I crafted a bunch.

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:51 pm**

I'm back playing this silly game

, even though I just got F1® Manager 2023 installed and I'm ready to jump into it. However, in an interesting variation of the OO effect, people talking about this game is making me want to keep playing it. Oh well, back to the diamond mines...

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 4:24 pm**

Does anyone know how to remove a mod from a weapon? I don't care about keeping it, but a really nice pre-modded weapon I just found has one mod that really hurts it. I want it gone.

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 4:41 pm**

If there are multiple attachments for the slot, you can replace it with one more to your liking, but in a case where there is only one option I don't see any way to remove it.

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:30 pm**

Dammit, just lost my IMP guy Madman, who I was running around solo as my militia trainer. I decided to have him repair an effigy in an "empty" sector and when he did four bad guys showed up. And I couldn't retreat him off the map

. Oh well, I got a lot out of that $6,999,

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:37 pm**

And someone just shot the treasure-hunting chicken.

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:38 pm**

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:37 pm And someone just shot the treasure-hunting chicken.

The chicken should be shot since, as far as I can tell, it is useless at hunting treasure.

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:42 pm**

coopasonic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:38 pm
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:37 pm And someone just shot the treasure-hunting chicken.
The chicken should be shot since, as far as I can tell, it is useless at hunting treasure.

Wouldn't that logic put KFC out of business?

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:47 pm**

I find that to be an acceptable outcome.

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:52 pm**

I suppose it was his own fault for standing there while bullets were flying around instead of running for cover.

At least it can't be said that he was a chicken!

Posted: **Fri Jul 28, 2023 4:18 pm**

I couldn't hold off any longer. Downloading it now!

Posted: **Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:27 pm**

Thanks to a certain Mr. Unger, I just took an outpost in one round.

I got on top of a ridge overlooking the outpost from the edge, and had everyone on overwatch divided between the two approaches. I then had Fox snipe an explosive barrel to get their attention. The enemies must have all been close, as they all charged in on the first round. They ran right through multiple overwatch cones, several of them taking multiple hits (although none of them died), and headed toward where the barrel was. They must have been clustered at the start, because the entire group ended up clustered together in a big clump right under my ridge.

Barry responded with a shaped charge that killed all but one, who was nearly dead. I had Wolf finish the job. One round, camp cleared, and one of my mercs still had max AP.

Posted: **Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:35 pm**

Barry did something similar for me in a bunker. I opened the door, had fox fire at one of the folks in the room and then back off. Barry then closed the door and ended the turn. Apparently everyone in that room was new to door technology as they just bunched up behind it. Next turn Barry opened the door again, tossed a shaped charge and viola….5 dead enemies.

Posted: **Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:54 am**

Like I said before, I'm not fiddling with mods too much before the official editor is released (and there are a couple that, should they not be made, I may make.) But this one was worth a chuckle:

The Expendable Merc Collection

Spoiler:

Posted: **Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:37 pm**

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:54 am The Expendable Merc Collection

This is also available in the Steam Workshop: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3011702735

Posted: **Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:54 pm**

I finished the campaign tonight. I took down all the bad guys, but didn't get around to finishing up all the side quests, so I didn't get a perfect resolution to all the plot threads.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:42 pm**

60 hours in. At this point I have rescued Biff and received the call but haven't triggered the next big plot point. My second squad needs to have it's gear modified and it's ammo pool reloaded but I keep finding side things to do instead of getting the two squads into the same place.

My only real complaint is the scarcity of mid level specialist mercs. Unlike JA2 I can't field train my leaders, medics and mechanics.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:08 pm**

Patch today. Full notes in the spoilers. Of note (to me, at least):

- Diamond mines deplete to 50% income on First Blood difficulty; 20% on Commando difficulty; 0% on Mission Impossible (Community Suggestion)

Very nice.

- Machine gun damage reduced
- Machine gun number of interrupt attacks are now based on current AP not max AP (calculated at end of turn) (Community Suggestion)

I'm guessing that this refers to emplaced machine guns, not squad-level heavy weapons.

Spoiler:

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:22 pm**

“Fix for bonus damage from explosives applying twice when using grenades (Community Suggestion)”

Wow, I’ve only seen complaints about how useless grenades are, not even knocking enemies down, etc. Unless I’m reading this wrong, grenades will now cause less damage?

Glad to see another patch so soon, but seems like minor tweaks (the mine depletion rate change is pretty big I guess) more than any large changes.

Was kinda hoping/waiting for a big ol patch, so I can start over again and do a full run through.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:57 pm**

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:08 pm
- Machine gun number of interrupt attacks are now based on current AP not max AP (calculated at end of turn) (Community Suggestion)
I'm guessing that this refers to emplaced machine guns, not squad-level heavy weapons.

I think it is for the squad machine guns as well. If your guy moves and then goes prone to set up a field of fire, they get less interrupt attacks than if they didn't move at all. That's how I read it.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:17 pm**

I was under the impression that squad level machine guns were already of questionable utility.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:32 pm**

And yeah, despite being an early adopter, I'm way behind the rest of you on this. Things have just been crazy amounts of busy lately, and I've been pretty out of sorts, both of which have affected how much I game.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:36 pm**

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:57 pm
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:08 pm
- Machine gun number of interrupt attacks are now based on current AP not max AP (calculated at end of turn) (Community Suggestion)
I'm guessing that this refers to emplaced machine guns, not squad-level heavy weapons.
I think it is for the squad machine guns as well. If your guy moves and then goes prone to set up a field of fire, they get less interrupt attacks than if they didn't move at all. That's how I read it.

Firing the weapon during your turn should also deplete the amount of AP available for overwatch/interrupts.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:40 pm**

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:32 pm And yeah, despite being an early adopter, I'm way behind the rest of you on this. Things have just been crazy amounts of busy lately, and I've been pretty out of sorts, both of which have affected how much I game.

Same (or similar). I found my limited time with the game to be mentally taxing in ways I wasn't anticipating - it required more focus and brain power than I was capable of providing. So instead, I became the Bat. Well, Bat-adjacent. I'm happy to let this game cook a bit more and get some patches. It didn't seem like it desperately needed them, but I'm guessing it's going to get better and better with some more fine-tuning. Still have zero regrets being an early adopter and supporting the developers.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:44 pm**

I have really been enjoying it when I play it. It's just that lately I haven't had the mental energy for much of anything, and often find myself spending my downtime doing something more... passive.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:25 pm**

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:17 pm I was under the impression that squad level machine guns were already of questionable utility.

Being prone with a field of fire leave them open to being shot at without cover, however I did find one merc with the trait/whatever that he only lost half his AP if he stood and moved. He also had a trait that made him better with machine guns. So he became my one and only LMG operator, although he had a sniper rifle just in case.

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:16 am**

Apparently the latest patch broke combat movement. Oops!! Guess I will now wait until 1.04.

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:30 am**

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:16 am Apparently the latest patch broke combat movement. Oops!! Guess I will now wait until 1.04.

Ah-ha! So that's what happened.

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:54 am**

How so?

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:07 am**

Apparently there is an issue with AP costs for movements involving a stance change at the end of the move. I've been playing since the patch dropped and haven't had any problems, but that's probably because I'm not trying to do the thing that has been broken. I didn't even know that "scheduling a stance change during a move" was a thing.

Steam forums: Combat movement bugs in 1.03

After the patch to 1.03, the movement range is incorrect when you schedule a change in stance during your movement. The yellow outline will show you being able to go to a position (with the feet icon), and then when you click to go there, there's just a soft "beep", the yellow and blue outlines flash briefly, and then nothing else happens.

If you change stance first, and then try to move there (instead of using CTRL-Z and CTRL-X to schedule a change in stance at the destination), you will get a "correct" yellow outline for your new (lower) remaining AP. But of course, that's no good because now you've changed stance just to figure out where you can reach (and spent the AP).

It feels like the patch changes to "fix" AP movement w.r.t schedule stance changes isn't working correctly. I'm having to change my stance ahead of my movement and that's of course not what I want to do.

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:41 am**

Max Peck wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:07 am Apparently there is an issue with AP costs for movements involving a stance change at the end of the move. I've been playing since the patch dropped and haven't had any problems, but that's probably because I'm not trying to do the thing that has been broken. I didn't even know that "scheduling a stance change during a move" was a thing.

Almost 70 hrs in and just taking my time and learning by doing (e.g. consistently regretting prior decisions made on my perks) in my first play through still but having a blast (along with my son who never played the original two JA but loves it now).

I really have not used that feature since I find it a bit clunky (I think original x-com had a similar feature that showed an icon but I could have game merge in my head). In any event, does anyone know if using this approach rather than manually doing it before/after a move saves any APs?

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:42 am**

I didn't even know it was a thing.

Posted: **Sat Aug 05, 2023 12:08 pm**

Pretty good post/response on the combat movement/stance change. I think I will wait AGAIN for next patch til they tighten this up:

Originally posted by mr_oluap:
Not sure what is the "AP/combat movement bug" but if this helps you need to stand at the beginning of your turn if you want maximum movement range, and then keep one or two AP left if you want to crouch/prone at the end.

"Sure, but it's not supposed to work like that. You are supposed to be able to use CTRL-Z and CTRL-X to "preview" the movement and the game is supposed to calculate the AP required to get from the start to the end efficiently _and_ end up in the stance you selected, and show you the range you can reach with such a sequence. Or, you can use V to lock your stance during the movement (so that, during a confirmed movement sequence, the merc won't stand, run, and then crouch, for example).

The whole point of this mechanism is so you don't have to manually calculate the total AP for a) changing stance before you begin, b) moving, c) changing stance when you end. (Also, with the preview, you can see the sight lines that will result in the destination, which is critical.) Calculating the AP required manually is cumbersome, especially when some mercs have free movements in play.

You can see some more details about the bug in my post here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1084160/ ... 853669280/

The movement+stance+sights preview was one of my favourite features in this game until they broke it. Way better than doing it by hand like we did in the 90s with JA:DG."

Posted: **Sat Aug 05, 2023 12:17 pm**

I will say the more I play and read comments from others, I think the thing I miss the most from JA2 are the little details that were tweaked out, maybe to simplify the game, or maybe for other reasons. Very much miss the "facing" aspect, as I thought that added a lot of richness to the tactics. But even something like whenever someone would start blasting using auto burst...everyone on the opposing team (and maybe same team? can't remember) would drop to prone immediately as a result, which seems pretty realistic IMO.

I also miss the stamina modeling, with visible graphs per merc. If you were within a blast radius of pretty much any explosive, or got knocked down, or got shot, your stamina would drop to very low levels, or even zero. It took a turn or two or a canteen (not sure what else, maybe bandages) to get your merc back in the battle as it were...again, pretty realistic. I doubt many outside of action movies could get knocked on their ass from an RPG blast and immediately get back up and engage in the battle again.

Posted: **Mon Aug 07, 2023 5:12 pm**

Tip I'm adding:

Sometimes you find a lootable container that's trapped, and it isn't obvious what you should do about it. There's a tell, though. If it says "Disarm", it's a bomb (use a character with high Explosives.) If it says "Disable", it's a mechanical trap (use a character with high Mechanical.)

Octopus Overlords

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