tesla motors

[Zaxxon]

BAMMED by telcta, but I'll post it anyway...

The question makes it clear they are different.

I tried both. Using autopilot I had to take over two times as it didn't take the curve. Or...maybe my expectation of its reactivity is not calibrated. This is NYC traffic so taking no chances.

They are indeed very different. Forgive me if I sound like I'm over-analyzing, but it can be confusing at first so I want to be thorough.

• Did you go through the menu and activate Autosteer? By default, it's disabled until you've read the instructions / warnings.
• TACC = one pull-down on the drive mode stalk, turns the speed indicator blue. It'll keep your speed and not hit cars in front of you but does nothing for lane-keeping. (Unless you've enabled the separate non-Autosteer lane-keep assist, which is also off by default. This will nudge you to stay in a lane if you start to drift, but will not take curves.)
• Autosteer / Autopilot = two pulls down on the drive mode stalk, turns both the speed indicator and steering wheel indicators blue, plays the bah-DUM sound. Does everything TACC does, plus handles lane-keeping for you.

If you had Autosteer enabled and engaged, normal traffic curves should not be a thing you worry about. The only curves I've ever had a problem with AP mishandling are very curvy mountain roads, and one time on a fairly curvy interstate where I was on AP at higher speeds than I probably should have been (effectively turning the interstate into a pretty curvy mountain road).

As far as expectation calibrating--shouldn't really be a thing--you'll be more centered in the lane than 95% of humanpilot drivers.

[telcta]

Jeez, I would be white knuckled the whole time FSD was engaged.

That’s me during normal driving around here. I’ll be heading out shortly for another test, I try to time it after rush hour where it’s me and the seniors venturing forth on the roadways.

[Zaxxon]

Jeez, I would be white knuckled the whole time FSD was engaged.

That’s me during normal driving around here. I’ll be heading out shortly for another test, I try to time it after rush hour where it’s me and the seniors venturing forth on the roadways.

Sounds like FSD Hard Mode - add in seniors all around.

[Isgrimnur]

US 1

[malchior]

BAMMED by telcta, but I'll post it anyway...

The question makes it clear they are different.

I tried both. Using autopilot I had to take over two times as it didn't take the curve. Or...maybe my expectation of its reactivity is not calibrated. This is NYC traffic so taking no chances.

They are indeed very different. Forgive me if I sound like I'm over-analyzing, but it can be confusing at first so I want to be thorough.

• Did you go through the menu and activate Autosteer? By default, it's disabled until you've read the instructions / warnings.

Yup.

[*] TACC = one pull-down on the drive mode stalk, turns the speed indicator blue. It'll keep your speed and not hit cars in front of you but does nothing for lane-keeping. (Unless you've enabled the separate non-Autosteer lane-keep assist, which is also off by default. This will nudge you to stay in a lane if you start to drift, but will not take curves.)

Yup. In my mind that was just regular cruise control.

[*] Autosteer / Autopilot = two pulls down on the drive mode stalk, turns both the speed indicator and steering wheel indicators blue, plays the bah-DUM sound. Does everything TACC does, plus handles lane-keeping for you.
[/list]

This is what I thought was TACC.

If you had Autosteer enabled and engaged, normal traffic curves should not be a thing you worry about. The only curves I've ever had a problem with AP mishandling are very curvy mountain roads, and one time on a fairly curvy interstate where I was on AP at higher speeds than I probably should have been (effectively turning the interstate into a pretty curvy mountain road).

Right. This was high speed and like I said I might be individually uncalibrated to the reaction speed. The curves on the belt parkway in particualr also sometimes have bad visibility and are narrow so it might be a factor.

As far as expectation calibrating--shouldn't really be a thing--you'll be more centered in the lane than 95% of humanpilot drivers.

Right. I noticed it was quite good most of the time. I'm talking two curves out of many. It is pretty windy but certainly not like a mountain road. Also NYC driving is inconsistent. Lots of traffic and a lot of people floating across the lines. I also might have misinterpreted the feedback. It probably wasn't wise to try it on day 2 in one of the unfriendliest dense driving scenarios in the country.

[telcta]

Tesla probe on FSD Beta accident

A Tesla Model Y enrolled in the FSD Beta program reportedly took a left turn and drove into the wrong lane. The Model Y was struck by another vehicle, and the driver states that they tried to regain control of the car to correct the maneuver. “The Vehicle was in FSD Beta mode, and while taking a left turn, the car went into the wrong lane, and I was hit by another driver in the lane next to my lane. The car gave an alert 1/2 way through the turn, so I tried to turn the wheel to avoid it from going into the wrong lane,” the Model Y owner wrote. However, it was too late, and “the car by itself took control and forced itself into the incorrect lane creating an unsafe manner putting everyone involved at risk,” according to the owner’s account.

I never had the car take control back over after I turned the wheel enough to break FSD. I do know auto-pilot speed control remains on and could accelerate, but the car would not start steering itself again. I believe with normal highway driving when you break the steering control, auto-pilot is still on, just not steering anymore.

[Zaxxon]

Tesla probe on FSD Beta accident

A Tesla Model Y enrolled in the FSD Beta program reportedly took a left turn and drove into the wrong lane. The Model Y was struck by another vehicle, and the driver states that they tried to regain control of the car to correct the maneuver. “The Vehicle was in FSD Beta mode, and while taking a left turn, the car went into the wrong lane, and I was hit by another driver in the lane next to my lane. The car gave an alert 1/2 way through the turn, so I tried to turn the wheel to avoid it from going into the wrong lane,” the Model Y owner wrote. However, it was too late, and “the car by itself took control and forced itself into the incorrect lane creating an unsafe manner putting everyone involved at risk,” according to the owner’s account.

I never had the car take control back over after I turned the wheel enough to break FSD. I do know auto-pilot speed control remains on and could accelerate, but the car would not start steering itself again. I believe with normal highway driving when you break the steering control, auto-pilot is still on, just not steering anymore.

Yeah, just judging from watching these reports a lot, the person who reported that is full of shit. Likely they either are misremembering or they goofed and are covering.

Which is not to say that I think FSD is a super-safe thing right now. Just that the car taking over and doing something that an attentive driver is acting to overrule isn't a thing that I've ever heard of from anyone.

[telcta]

Yes, FSD is nowhere super safe. It will go into the wrong lane... it will cross a double yellow... it will do things out of the blue. I'm sure events unfolded quickly for that person and I have little doubt it did something to put that person in danger. Maybe they accidentally re-engaged FSD, who knows. But there is a lot of data collected and the scenario can easily be reconstructed.

[malchior]

US 1

LOL. Pretty close to real life...in the 1940s. It's all strip malls and Wawas now.

[gbasden]

I don't take consumer reports as gospel, but their contention that tesla ranks nearly dead last on reliability isn't awesome.

SFGate

[coopasonic]

Among the concerns Consumer Reports had for the Tesla Model S, X and Y lines, according to CNBC, were issues with “heat pumps, air conditioning” and notoriously, misaligned panels.

What is the definition of reliability for Consumer Reports? Panel gaps are a reliability issue? I suspect that the real issue is that the standard for reliability is just very, very high now and Tesla hasn't quite made the bar, but it's not actually a problem day to day.

[malchior]

Among the concerns Consumer Reports had for the Tesla Model S, X and Y lines, according to CNBC, were issues with “heat pumps, air conditioning” and notoriously, misaligned panels.

What is the definition of reliability for Consumer Reports? Panel gaps are a reliability issue? I suspect that the real issue is that the standard for reliability is just very, very high now and Tesla hasn't quite made the bar, but it's not actually a problem day to day.

My guess is reliability is anything thts leads to a service visit or repair.

[malchior]

For a few days you'll be fine either way, but I'd recommend turning Sentry off if you're not plugged in and it's just gonna sit for days.

I am about to head back and woke it up to set a precondition time. It lost 0% charge over the last 3+ days. Sitting at 83% still. Lol.

[Jaymann]

My Model 3 is nothing but reliable. In over 3 years I had to replace the glove box (a free home visit) and some tires. The guy at the tire store said the weight of a Tesla wears out tires quickly. I read in the manual that the brakes need to be serviced every 12.5k miles. Since I gave the Model 3 to my daughter, I told her she should schedule service.

[malchior]

i checked this earlier but just now can't get into my car remotely. I just found out they are having an outage. Yikes.

Story here

[Jaymann]

That link is broken. But this is why I always keep a spare key card.

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, always have the card. Interestingly, one of my cars is out remotely while the other is fine. Weird. Usually either their API is down or it's not.

[Zaxxon]

[malchior]

It was spotty. More unstable than down is my guess.

[Zaxxon]

Just to clarify the earlier comments, though, you can get into the car (in a literal sense) without relying on the back-end service. The phone key is entirely Bluetooth.

[malchior]

So interesting development I can confirm I had the same problem on *only* the Belt parkway on the way back with Autopilot. I wasn't imagining it. There wasn't much traffic at 130 AM so I gave it another try right after leaving the airport.

The car repeatedly failed to maintain the lane. I actually have video of it. The car would oscillate from one side of the lane back and forth until it'd leave the lane in one direction and disengage. Any idea how I might share this with them? On the other side of the Verazzano, all the way home, and this morning it worked correctly so it doesn't seem to be a calibration issue.

[telcta]

Not sure if it'll help since you had mentioned it worked correctly on another drive but you could try recalibrating the cameras. Under Service tap on "Camera Calibration" which basically would reset the system. I had watch a YouTube video with someone testing FSD and felt they had issues that were corrected after recalibration.

You could try setting up a service visit through the app. Select Software > Driver Assistance Features. You can describe the problem there and they may respond back to you asking for more information. No way should that car drift across any lines. Depending on your settings you would get feedback through the steering wheel (and chime) upon lane departure but that may be disengaged during autopilot use.

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, that's not something I've ever experienced. In addition to a service request, you can also activate the voice button and say 'bug report' followed by a description when it happens if you can repro it. Service can then pull logs from that timestamp.

[malchior]

Yeah, that's not something I've ever experienced. In addition to a service request, you can also activate the voice button and say 'bug report' followed by a description when it happens if you can repro it. Service can then pull logs from that timestamp.

Thanks that's helpful. Maybe the next time I venture out there in a couple weeks I'll hit it again and see if I can replicate it and do that.

Not sure if it'll help since you had mentioned it worked correctly on another drive but you could try recalibrating the cameras. Under Service tap on "Camera Calibration" which basically would reset the system. I had watch a YouTube video with someone testing FSD and felt they had issues that were corrected after recalibration.

I just did this anyway. I did it because I had another curious issue. On a couple of streets in my area the cameras start popping a warning about not being able to see. I believe it is related to the road being covered entirely by yellow leaves. As soon as I turned off that street onto my clear street the error cleared. I turned around and as soon as the front camera starts getting filled with the yellow leaves it pops the error again. A recalibration didn't help and I'll probably do the 'bug report' thing above. I don't know how they'd deal with it though because it is fairly uniform and I get why the vision system wouldn't be able to make out where the road is.

[The Meal]

Roughly one dozen more trips to the gas station left in my primary driver.

[Zaxxon]

Roughly one dozen more trips to the gas station left in my primary driver.

Sweet...

[telcta]

That looks faaaaast. Very nice.

[Jaymann]

Welcome to the club!

[malchior]

Congrats! Part of me wishes I picked red. It always looks awesome out on the road.

[The Meal]

Roughly one dozen more trips to the gas station left in my primary driver.

Eleven (?).

Ordered on 12/3 via the website. Still have not spoken with any humans. All communication (via email and text) has been boilerplate.

Initial estimated delivery range was "February" (hence my previous message). Since then I have received two updated ranges: "March 17 - April 15", and (currently), "December 19 - 31". I've been led to believe that EDDs will swing about wildly with little correlation to reality until T has actually issued me a VIN. Were the end of 2021Q4 estimate to hold true, I intend to actually take delivery in that range despite potentially missing out on BBB credits, as 1) who knows what BBB will actually look like, and 2) who knows how many orders are currently on hold until Jan 1 anticipating BBB monies -- potentially pushing my actual delivery to late Q1 or into 2022Q2. This could change as our circumstances get updated.

I've got a trade-in offer on the table from T good until 4 Jan 2022. It's in-line with what other online places would offer me (and has the benefit of knocking down some sales tax on the actual purchase). I'm not in a good situation to let me go down the private sale path.

I've got the Wall Charger on hand and have an electrician coming out on Tuesday to quote the installation. Colorado has a 30% incentive available for purchase+installation that's good until 31 Dec 2021, so that's nice. I've got an updated quote from my insurance (+$40/mo vs. my current insurance), and I've got a quote from a window tint/clear bra installer. I want to receive the vehicle before I go down the path of accessories, but my first priority will likely be a second set of winter-dedicated rims and wheels. That's how I've handled my MINI, so I basically already own everything (other than the Tesla-specific jack-point adapters) allowing me to swap wheels in the comfort of my own garage. And for a vehicle of this weight, I understand that ensuring tire rotation happens on schedule is extra important, so my jack, jack stands, impact driver, and torque wrenches are already in line to get some use.

I've kept this on the SUPER DL. MHS knows (of course), one former coworker friend knows, and hundreds of my OOnline friends are now in the loop. I figure it'll be 50/50 if my daughter figures it out ahead of time (based on the new charger on the garage wall). Family will likely find out if/when the photos show up on social media. This is an expensive car, and I can't really figure out a way to show my enthusiasm that wouldn't also feel like I'm flexing on my ability to make this purchase. Also it'll be more entertaining to see reactions once everything has actually played out.

[coopasonic]

Speaking of accessories, someone at work pointed this out to me:
https://modernspare.com/product/2017-20 ... t-options/

Yes, it would take up space and add weight, but it would also reduce anxiety. Thinking about it.

[malchior]

Roughly one dozen more trips to the gas station left in my primary driver.

Eleven (?).

Ordered on 12/3 via the website. Still have not spoken with any humans. All communication (via email and text) has been boilerplate.

Initial estimated delivery range was "February" (hence my previous message). Since then I have received two updated ranges: "March 17 - April 15", and (currently), "December 19 - 31". I've been led to believe that EDDs will swing about wildly with little correlation to reality until T has actually issued me a VIN. Were the end of 2021Q4 estimate to hold true, I intend to actually take delivery in that range despite potentially missing out on BBB credits, as 1) who knows what BBB will actually look like, and 2) who knows how many orders are currently on hold until Jan 1 anticipating BBB monies -- potentially pushing my actual delivery to late Q1 or into 2022Q2. This could change as our circumstances get updated.

My experience was that EDD wasn't at all reliable but they do prioritize Performance heavily. Also, it seems more than possible people might refuse delivery to try to get into January for the chance at credits and bump you up in line.

I've got a trade-in offer on the table from T good until 4 Jan 2022. It's in-line with what other online places would offer me (and has the benefit of knocking down some sales tax on the actual purchase). I'm not in a good situation to let me go down the private sale path.[/quote]Trade-in was the only part of the process that wasn't a hassle for me. In fact, the delays ended up putting another 5000 in my hands as the trade-in kept climbing as I renewed it one month at a time.

I want to receive the vehicle before I go down the path of accessories, but my first priority will likely be a second set of winter-dedicated rims and wheels.

I can't recommend custom mats enough. I ended up buying the Tesmanian ones and they are fantastic. In the end, I bought a console organizer, mats, screen protector, and jack adapters prior to delivery. The mats have already earned their keep in less than a month of ownership. I self-washed the car the other day and the custom mats were much, much easier to clean than the stock mats would have been.

[malchior]

Roughly one dozen more trips to the gas station left in my primary driver.

Eleven (?).

Ordered on 12/3 via the website. Still have not spoken with any humans. All communication (via email and text) has been boilerplate.

Initial estimated delivery range was "February" (hence my previous message). Since then I have received two updated ranges: "March 17 - April 15", and (currently), "December 19 - 31". I've been led to believe that EDDs will swing about wildly with little correlation to reality until T has actually issued me a VIN. Were the end of 2021Q4 estimate to hold true, I intend to actually take delivery in that range despite potentially missing out on BBB credits, as 1) who knows what BBB will actually look like, and 2) who knows how many orders are currently on hold until Jan 1 anticipating BBB monies -- potentially pushing my actual delivery to late Q1 or into 2022Q2. This could change as our circumstances get updated.

My experience was that EDD wasn't at all reliable but they do prioritize Performance heavily. Also, it seems more than possible people might refuse delivery to try to get into January for the chance at credits and bump you up in line.

I've got a trade-in offer on the table from T good until 4 Jan 2022. It's in-line with what other online places would offer me (and has the benefit of knocking down some sales tax on the actual purchase). I'm not in a good situation to let me go down the private sale path.

Trade-in was the only part of the process that wasn't a hassle for me. In fact, the delays ended up putting another 5000 in my hands as the trade-in kept climbing as I renewed it one month at a time.

I want to receive the vehicle before I go down the path of accessories, but my first priority will likely be a second set of winter-dedicated rims and wheels.

I can't recommend custom mats enough. I ended up buying the Tesmanian ones and they are fantastic. I bought a console organizer, mats, screen protector, and jack adapters prior to delivery but the mats stand out. The mats have already earned their keep in less than a month of ownership. I self-washed the car the other day and the custom mats were much, much easier to clean than the stock mats would have been.

Speaking of accessories, someone at work pointed this out to me:
https://modernspare.com/product/2017-20 ... t-options/

Yes, it would take up space and add weight, but it would also reduce anxiety. Thinking about it.

I've thought about it but I've seen people mock up how much space it takes especially considering you need a heavier grade jack. I'd only consider it on a roof rack or hitch mounted.

[The Meal]

Two (?)

Woke up to a VIN and an end-of-December estimated delivery date. I must've been very good this year.

Wall charger got installed this week. Installer did a very nice job. Also cleaned up some left overs in our circuit box from the solar install and fixed a failing GFCI breaker (we literally tripped that breaker the weekend before he showed up). I don't want to talk about the price, but in the grand scheme of things when it comes to electricity I'll take professional-and-expensive over good-enough-and-???.

I have started down the accessory path. I've got a jack-point puck (and three additional). I've got a matte LCD protector. I've picked up some cleaning products. I've got an electric tire pump (that's way nicer than the one I've got dedicated to my Jeep/garage). I've ordered a blank notebook and Fisher Space Pen for logging travels, expenses, maintenance, and NOT TRIPS TO THE GAS STATION. (Sorry, I'm so exuberant about cutting out the petrol pushers...) I need to figure out winter wheels (both rims and rubber), as one assumes Colorado's Front Range will eventually see snow again in the future.

Re: mats, I trust that everything I read about the Model 3 "upgrade" trims (mine is an "AWD/Long Range") having crap mats is correct. After my time with MINIs, I'm probably going to stick with www.cocomats.com , as these are where my heart lies. I'll need to see the interior first to decide if they're an aesthetic fit.

I've got quotes for clear bra + tint and auto insurance. I've got to regonkulate my financed portion of the purchase as after my trade-in I've got something like $2200 in credit (which I'd much rather put towards knocking down the loan principle).

Still been keeping this under wraps to the extent I can. MHS + her side of the family (as OO members) know. A former coworker knows. The EV Charging Teams group at work knows (oh, free charging at my place of employment -- nice perk). The nosy neighbor from across the street knows (he couldn't wait five minutes after the electrician showed up to find out what's going on). Tonight will be a test as some couples are coming over (including an already-Tesla family who happens to be picking up a Model Y later today) and it's possible they notice the wall charger. Still, I'm hoping to catch some surprised wide eyes in my future when I roll up in my red robot car...

[Zaxxon]

If you're interested in logging, consider TeslaFi. Not everyone is cool with giving a third-party that level of access, but it's a wonderful product IMO and has been very useful to me in analyzing our cars' data.

Yes, the mats that come with the car are pretty pedestrian.

Have you picked up any mobile connector adapters? The car only comes with 5-15 these days. You will definitely want the 14-50 if you ever plan to car camp, and the 5-20 is useful if you do any sort of traveling where you may want to charge at other folks' places. We've used it at several Airbnbs. A 5-20 is nominally only 33% more power than a 5-15, but due to the car's overhead it's effectively ~50% faster.

[coopasonic]

I tried "smart" summon for the first time (super short clip and 240p ):

[Jaymann]

If you walk away while summoning will it follow you like a puppy dog?

[coopasonic]

If you walk away while summoning will it follow you like a puppy dog?

I didn't try it, but I have heard that it's a yes if you are using "Come to me". You have to hold the "come to me" button to confirm you have eyes on and it is safe to proceed.

Parking lots around here are generally too busy for me to really want to risk it. Yesterday I was goaded into it by my co-workers and there wasn't much traffic.

[Zaxxon]

It's certainly not very smart. Can confirm it'll follow you, after a fashion.

[The Meal]

If you're interested in logging, consider TeslaFi. Not everyone is cool with giving a third-party that level of access, but it's a wonderful product IMO and has been very useful to me in analyzing our cars' data.

Yes, the mats that come with the car are pretty pedestrian.

Have you picked up any mobile connector adapters? The car only comes with 5-15 these days. You will definitely want the 14-50 if you ever plan to car camp, and the 5-20 is useful if you do any sort of traveling where you may want to charge at other folks' places. We've used it at several Airbnbs. A 5-20 is nominally only 33% more power than a 5-15, but due to the car's overhead it's effectively ~50% faster.

The TeslaFi data looks amazing. Worth $50/year amazing? Maybe?

Thanks for the heads up on the chargers. The 14-50 was already on my radar. The 5-20 makes some sense. What about the competing standards? The J-1772 seems pretty common, and there would seem to me a rise in the CCS standard. The CHAdeMO seems pretty skippable.

No intention of getting the FSD package at the current time. Maybe a $200 monthly purchase when road trips are in place. Of course if I can’t go from parallel parking my MINI to parking the Monster 3, then all options are back on the table.