Octopus Overlords

Safety features are different than "full self driving". Is auto steer a problem? I don't know but if it is, FSD a greater one. They are certainly not the same thing.

You seem surprised that people would ignore warnings, instructions, and EULAs. I know several Tesla owners who feel they can have a few more beers or pay less attention when FSD is active. They aren't normally irresponsible or stupid. They just buy the hype.


Driving is inherently dangerous. It's certainly the most dangerous thing I do most days. I'm all for making it safer with incremental safety features. Giving people excuses to pay less attention until the tech is actually ready for prime time is not the way forward.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:36 pm Safety features are different than "full self driving". Is auto steer a problem? I don't know but if it is, FSD a greater one. They are certainly not the same thing.

FSD is not involved in either the CR report or the recent TX crash. It's an entirely different concept from what's being discussed.

You seem surprised that people would ignore warnings, instructions, and EULAs. I know several Tesla owners who feel they can have a few more beers or pay less attention when FSD is active. They aren't normally irresponsible or stupid. They just buy the hype.

Sorry for knocking your friends, but they certainly are irresponsible and/or stupid if they're doing that.

Driving is inherently dangerous. It's certainly the most dangerous thing I do most days. I'm all for making it safer with incremental safety features. Giving people excuses to pay less attention until the tech is actually ready for prime time is not the way forward.

And this is where we differ. It's clearly ready for prime time, as demonstrated by the safety stats. Holding that improvement back because a tiny subset are irresponsible would be, well, irresponsible.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:31 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:36 pm Safety features are different than "full self driving". Is auto steer a problem? I don't know but if it is, FSD a greater one. They are certainly not the same thing.

FSD is not involved in either the CR report or the recent TX crash. It's an entirely different concept from what's being discussed.

You seem surprised that people would ignore warnings, instructions, and EULAs. I know several Tesla owners who feel they can have a few more beers or pay less attention when FSD is active. They aren't normally irresponsible or stupid. They just buy the hype.

Sorry for knocking your friends, but they certainly are irresponsible and/or stupid if they're doing that.

"Normally" is an important qualifier. They would never do such a thing in another car. But they swear by their Tesla for it. Is it an excuse? Possibly but I know they're not alone in this.

I went on a trip in my Tesla for the first time in over a year, and I tried out some new voice commands. Driving home I was disappointed to find there is no cruise control. So I asked for autopilot and not available. No freebie and I'm not paying for it.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:38 pm "Normally" is an important qualifier. They would never do such a thing in another car. But they swear by their Tesla for it. Is it an excuse? Possibly but I know they're not alone in this.

It's definitely not an excuse, and the fact that you're rationalizing it here as a possible excuse tells me we're not going to agree on this topic.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:41 pm I went on a trip in my Tesla for the first time in over a year, and I tried out some new voice commands. Driving home I was disappointed to find there is no cruise control. So I asked for autopilot and not available. No freebie and I'm not paying for it.

Do you have it on your car? (Would show in the software section and in the menus). I can't remember if you bought while it was still an add-on for the base AP features or not. Even if you do have it, if you haven't enabled the feature initially and read through the warnings, it won't be available.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:50 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:38 pm "Normally" is an important qualifier. They would never do such a thing in another car. But they swear by their Tesla for it. Is it an excuse? Possibly but I know they're not alone in this.

It's definitely not an excuse, and the fact that you're rationalizing it here as a possible excuse tells me we're not going to agree on this topic.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:41 pm I went on a trip in my Tesla for the first time in over a year, and I tried out some new voice commands. Driving home I was disappointed to find there is no cruise control. So I asked for autopilot and not available. No freebie and I'm not paying for it.

Do you have it on your car? (Would show in the software section and in the menus). I can't remember if you bought while it was still an add-on for the base AP features or not. Even if you do have it, if you haven't enabled the feature initially and read through the warnings, it won't be available.

It didn't understand the command, so I don't think it exists. It understood autopilot and denied me.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:50 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:38 pm "Normally" is an important qualifier. They would never do such a thing in another car. But they swear by their Tesla for it. Is it an excuse? Possibly but I know they're not alone in this.

It's definitely not an excuse, and the fact that you're rationalizing it here as a possible excuse tells me we're not going to agree on this topic.

I mean are they using it as an excuse to act stupid. But this is a lot more common than you think.

Tesla to pay $750k, build microgrid system as penalty for Fremont factory air quality violations.

Obviously the amount is peanuts for Tesla, but I'm glad to see something come of the violations. Nice that they're not just paying cash, too.

No mention yet that the new Tesla is designed to go right to Ludicrous Speed

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:57 am No mention yet that the new Tesla is designed to go right to Ludicrous Speed

tbh I'm much more excited about the updated UI, waypoints in nav (probably the single most glaring software hole in current Teslas), and the confirmation that 350 kW Supercharging is coming.

Plaid is cool, though. The base S is now a pretty good value, if an $80k car can ever be a good value.

FSD subscription now available.

Will be interesting to see how many opt for paying $200/mo rather than $10k up front. I'd never drop $10k on it even once it actually does what's promised, but I could see subscribing for months in which I had long trips planned.

$100/mo for those with EAP. What I'd really like to see is EAP come back in both purchase and subscription formats, priced at half of FSD.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:31 pmWill be interesting to see how many opt for paying $200/mo rather than $10k up front. I'd never drop $10k on it even once it actually does what's promised, but I could see subscribing for months in which I had long trips planned.

I put in an order for the Model Y last night - knowing subscription pricing was coming - and opted to wait. I had guessed $175/mo (figured they were targeting 5 years for roadmap purposes) so happy to be in the ballpark. I'll have to see what the rules are for enabling/disabling subscriptions because I'd do it exactly as you describe - enable it for long trips but I saw too little value in a $10K feature license.

It sounds like there are no restrictions in enabling/disabling other than no proration--you cancel before a month is done and you get no refund but the feature stays enabled for the rest of that 30-day period.

I think you made the right call. There is nowhere near $10k in value in the current FSD, IMO. I do like enhanced autopilot, but they don't offer that in the US anymore other than through periodic sales.

It was funny to me that I knew it was coming from doing research, put in the order, and saw the subscription announcement like an hour later.

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:07 am It was funny to me that I knew it was coming from doing research, put in the order, and saw the subscription announcement like an hour later.

They were waiting for your order.

I was all set to enable for a month for my road trip at the end of June/early July, but they just missed me.

An example of the Beta V9 FSD.

Tesla says it will open up charging network

July 20 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) plans to open its network of superchargers to other electric vehicles later this year, Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk said on Twitter.

The electric-car maker's fast charging network, with over 25,000 superchargers globally, has given it a competitive edge. Meanwhile, other carmakers have formed alliances or invested in startups for networks as they rush new electric vehicle entrants to market.

"We're making our Supercharger network open to other EVs later this year," Musk said on Tuesday, adding that over time Tesla's charging network will be opened to other electric vehicles in all countries. (https://bit.ly/3xVK1rt)

I'm very interested to see what this means and how it's implemented. A converter cable from Tesla to CCS is only about $150.

Saw that last night. Provided they implement it well (eg either other manufacturers pay in proportional to their fleet size to help it grow to accommodate them, or Tesla charges a high enough fee to the drivers to accomplish the same goal), I'm all for it.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:38 pm"Normally" is an important qualifier. They would never do such a thing in another car. But they swear by their Tesla for it. Is it an excuse? Possibly but I know they're not alone in this.

I can agree that Tesla drivers are changing what's normal when they're behind the wheel. I honestly think this is a great thing in the long run. Let the people who are going to go out of their way to defeat safety measures do so. Every crash in a Tesla provides a data set that can help avoid that specific crash again in the future.

According to the National Highway Traffic Administration, car accidents happen every 60 seconds. That equates to about 5.25 million accidents across the nation on a yearly basis.

More than 38,000 people die every year in crashes on U.S. roadways. The U.S. traffic fatality rate is 12.4 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants. An additional 4.4 million are injured seriously enough to require medical attention.

I would wager big bucket-loads of money that I don't have that if every car on the road were autonomous, these numbers would be a fraction of what they are now. I see that as the end goal in Tesla's Autopilot feature. It's also why I don't panic when I hear about fatalities or accidents in a Tesla. I'd love to see the data comparison between the ratio of miles driven by auto-pilot without accidents and miles driven by humans without accidents.

Unfortunately, and I think OSHA will back me up on this, just about every safety regulation ever conceived has been through literal blood and tears. Self-driving cars will be no different.

Nice first impressions on the Plaid. The interior looks pretty nice.

A week ago I sat in a Mustang Mach-E and will say I vastly prefer the widescreen center console shown here.

I'm not sure how I feel about the yoke. On the one hand, it seems like a PITA when doing tight turns, eg in a parking lot. On the other, wheels suck for seeing the front display.

I need to test-drive one.

What's weird to me is that in all of his criticism of the yoke that one thing that bothered me didn't bother him and that was because of the way he drives. He turns with cross arms. I was wondering the the yoke only 180 decrees in either direction moving, but it does not. Its just a different shape with the normal wheel turning. That led to turning with crossed arms. That's supposed to be a driving nono and I can remember actually losing control turning with crossed arms, so I don't do it. There is not enough real estate with the yoke to not cross arms when turning.

https://www.reddrivingschool.com/2017/0 ... ving-test/

This is most notable when going into sharp corners. Hitting the kerb is possible if this is not done correctly. Contrary to popular belief, crossing your arms on a driving test will not cause you to fail. However, most people tend to lose full control of the wheel when they cross their arms, which is why the fault is marked. It is good practice to use the pull-push steering technique that you have been shown in your driving lessons, which reduces the chances of losing steering control.

I saw a Tesla/PUBG Mobile cross-promotion and I am not sure how I fell about it. I was seriously tempted to reinstall PUBG until I saw it was Mobile only.

For the uninformed, PUBG = Playerunknown's Battlegrounds, one of the first big Battle Royale games (the Fortnite before Fortnite).

On the yoke... I'll worry about it when I win the lottery.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:52 am I'm not sure how I feel about the yoke. On the one hand, it seems like a PITA when doing tight turns, eg in a parking lot. On the other, wheels suck for seeing the front display.

I need to test-drive one.

Yeah I see pro/cons. It sounds like the buttons need to be dialed down in sensitivity.

On a side note - Tesla needs to work on the ordering process. I had a delivery date, it vanished, and the sales guy called me when I inquired to let me know I "had lost my spot" because I hadn't completed all my paperwork. What was the issue? Apparently I was supposed to intuitively know I needed to upload my existing car's insurance policy. Every car I've bought in my life we did this on delivery day at the dealership. I can't even add a car until I have a VIN. The website said you needed it prior to delivery so I expected I'd provide it when they gave me a VIN. Nope, the guy today told me I should have uploaded my existing policy. He was acting like this was common sense - even though he said this is what "we have to do in NJ". It's not their normal process. There are absolutely no indications to do this on the website. Anyway, he said I might be pushed back from September to November. Sigh - hopefully the experience gets better from here.

That's annoying. Here in CO they did make that clear on my purchases, but I'm sure there's variability in experience there and I've heard so many horror stories with Tesla's communications that I don't doubt your ordeal at all.

On the bright side, I've also been around Tesla long enough to confidently say there's a high probability that there's a car for you as 9/30 approaches.

malchior wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:43 pm Sigh - hopefully the experience gets better from here.

It will start getting better when you have the car. The process up to that point is... not great. Of course I say that as a Texas buyer where you can't actually buy a Tesla. Communication was absolutely the worst part of the experience for me 3 years ago and I haven't heard anything that makes me think they've improved it any. It really is kind of shocking., or it was when I first experienced it anyway.

It is a little surprising but it's not a huge deal. I just am always confused when high end products got the easy things wrong.

malchior wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:41 pm It is a little surprising but it's not a huge deal. I just am always confused when high end products got the easy things wrong.

This has been my biggest issue with Tesla for a long time. They do the hard and impossible-seeming stuff with relative ease, and trip over themselves on answering the damned phone or scheduling delivery.

Yeah especially since this fix is so easy. An email tickling me that they were waiting for something would have at least made me aware. But then again I looked at that screen and it wasn't clear at all the it'd hold up an order. I think the fact that the queue is always full doesn't give them much incentive to do even the basics.

For what it's worth, the service side had gotten a lot better in the past couple of years. Between our cars and those of family and close friends we've had them out a few times for things ranging from tire rotations to filter replacements to minor issues. They now send proactive communications through the app, have called to get more detail to pull logs before the visit, send invoice estimates for approval before the service date, etc. This is a marked change from 2018-2019 when I first got my 3.

Hopefully a makeover they'll eventually repeat on the sales side.

Gotta love Tesla's camo strategy.

I thought it read: "Not Mo Jely"

Jaymann wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:24 am I thought it read: "Not Mo Jely"

Coincidentally, those are also not mo jely.

Has anyone ever looked into getting a backup portable charger? This is the first one I've noticed actually gave an estimate - it's buried somewhere in the advertisement but it says 5+ miles for Tesla. Not that I've ever come close to such an emergency situation, but the idea that I could hypothetically be in the middle of nowhere and need a charge - then charge this thing (if needed) with solar panels or whatever and be able to charge my car - just seems cool lol. I think I've always had a sci-fi-ish fantasy of a solar powered car, and this is in theory pretty close.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/supe ... rBasePro#/

That is cool. I'm not sure whether the cost + having 50 lb dead weight in the car at all times is worth it for a few miles over an hour charge time in an emergency, tho.

Lots of behind-the-curtain info in last night's so-called AI Day presentation. The full event is a lot to get through (timestamped to the actual start, 2 1/2 hours long):




If you prefer highlights, those are still a lot to get through, but here you go:

Andrej Karpathy on the overall neural network design (25 min):


Ashok Elluswamy on the planning system (7 min):


Genesh Venugopal with Dojo chip detail (20 min):


Finally, from the full video, here's another section from Elluswamy and Karpathy on how they use fleet data to improve the network, and the part that kind of blew my mind--how they take fleet data of problematic situations and import it into their simulation in order to test without needing real vehicles to repeat scenarios each time. (1:40 - 2:02, ~22 min)

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:21 pmThat is cool. I'm not sure whether the cost + having 50 lb dead weight in the car at all times is worth it for a few miles over an hour charge time in an emergency, tho.

I've wondered why electric vehicles don't all have some form of built-in solar panels for passive energy accumulation.