Fallout 3 Impressions

[Scuzz]

I had no problems loading FO3 GOTY version and i never had Games for Windows Live installed.......unless DA:O installed it.

[dbt1949]

I gave my stepson my old copy of FO3. After applying the latest patch he kept getting error boxes about missing some dll or something. He eventually found out he needed Games for Windows installed before he could play it.

[Hipolito]

Hipolito, I'm playing FO3 with the Fallout Mod Manager and FOSE, and it disables GFWL by default, so I never had that headache to get the game started. You should check it ou in case you plan on replaying it anytime soon.

Thanks for the tip. I also use Fallout Mod Manager but didn't know about FOSE. The thing is, GFWL doesn't give me any problems while running the game, only while installing it, and I'm not sure FOSE would help with that.

I had no problems loading FO3 GOTY version and i never had Games for Windows Live installed.......unless DA:O installed it.

Did you buy the game from a download service like Steam? My version is a retail box copy, which might make a difference.

[Scuzz]

Hipolito, I'm playing FO3 with the Fallout Mod Manager and FOSE, and it disables GFWL by default, so I never had that headache to get the game started. You should check it ou in case you plan on replaying it anytime soon.

Thanks for the tip. I also use Fallout Mod Manager but didn't know about FOSE. The thing is, GFWL doesn't give me any problems while running the game, only while installing it, and I'm not sure FOSE would help with that.

I had no problems loading FO3 GOTY version and i never had Games for Windows Live installed.......unless DA:O installed it.

Did you buy the game from a download service like Steam? My version is a retail box copy, which might make a difference.

Box version from Best Buy.

The only problem I had with it was the occasional crash to the desktop. Maybe 12 times in the entire time I played the game. But I save a lot so it was no big problem. I tried hitting the Windows Live button yesterday and all that happened was the machine locked up.

[Scuzz]

I finished the game last night..at least I have now done the base game and all 5 DLC's. The game doesn't actually end at that time.

I had 108 hours. Really enjoyed the game and while it played much different than F1&2 I still found the fallout world to be well represented. I see why they had to change the original ending as that was truly MEH....with a capital MEH.

[ChaoZ]

I just reformatted my computer and reinstalled Fallout 3. Never did get much far before, so I'm trying again.

I'm running Windows 7 64-bit and the game crashes to desktop in the intro thing where you have to walk to the father.

I recall the same thing happening to me before the format and that running it in a window seemed to solve it. Is there a better solution than that though? Latest patch (1.7?) from Bethesda has been applied.

[Stuie]

You come across a little burned-out diner, and inside everything is rubble and destruction except for one pristine white coffee cup sitting on the counter. Behind the counter, two skeletons.

Replaying Fallout 3 for the first time in years, and I walked into Dot's Diner near the Jury St. Station... and there it was. This post by Two Sheds actually came to mind.

I had forgotten how depressing this game can be, the stories it tells without telling them - just what's left behind. Definitely evokes something for me that New Vegas didn't quite capture, even though I think New Vegas was better executed from a technical standpoint.

[Isgrimnur]

Reminds me of the Bradbury story about the automated Martian house.

[Blackhawk]

Yargh - what about FO3? I never finished it and would like to correct that. Anyone have any suggestions about best way to play it in 2024?

How do you feel about Fallout: New Vegas?

If your answer is positive, I'd recommend A Tale of Two Wastelands. It combines the two games by porting FO3 into NV. They're still separate and each can be played individually, but it's designed with the intention that you play them both with the same character, and balanced with that in mind (when you decide to go to Vegas, Benny still shoots you in the head, so your memory and gear are gone, and you have to regain both over the course of it.) It's popular, well written, relatively easy to install, and rock-solid (I'm playing it now, and have been off and on for about a year and a half.)

Gameplay wise, the reason to go this route is that the New Vegas version of the engine was more stable, and the game had more functionality than the FO3 version. By playing FO3 in the New Vegas engine, you get all of the enhancements.

The setup takes a little while, but it's straightforward, well documented, and well supported. Just make sure you follow all of the steps (including the clean install!)

Awesome! Thanks, I will do this.

Downsides to this vs vanilla/separate?

If it helps I never played New Vegas.

Then you're in for a double!

There are no objective downsides that I know of, but it does change the game a bit, which could be a subjective downside for some, depending on your preferences. It doesn't change the content/lore/story beyond adding a few goodies, but it does tweak the balance, as NV and FO3 were different games, with different equipment, different buff items, different foods, and different perks. The same enemies in the two games had different stats. The same weapons had different stats. They had to adjust those things or it would break both games. So would the leveling system - you'd be endgame level at the start of whichever you played second. That needed tweaked.

Example: Fallout 3 has bobbleheads you can collect that give big skill bonuses (permanent +10 on skills that range from 1-100.) FO3 and NV both have books that permanently increase skills (by 3 points in New Vegas, 4 with the Comprehension perk), and by 1/2 points in FO3.) Both games have perks that permanently increase skills. The level cap was raised as part of the balance changes, meaning that you're assigning skill points more often. Result? There are so many ways to increase your numerical skills that it was both unbalanced overkill, and kind of pointless and unfun. Here's +10 to your Science skill... that you maxed out two days ago. Yay?

So instead they made the books give FO3 bonuses (+1/+2 points.) They made bobbleheads give special perks instead of stat/skill bonuses - the Science bobblehead gives you a bonus against robots, and changed some perks similarly (for example, Daddy's Boy/Daddy's Girl went from +5 Science and Medicine to giving a 10% increase to chem duration and a bonus to hacking.) The result is that you still have so many ways to raise skill values that you'll still be able to max out the skills you want just as easily, but the bobbleheads/books/perks won't be useless, and are still exciting to find.

In practice, they balanced it so that leveling made you gain versatility as much as power. So, instead of being god-powered halfway through and having the second campaign be dull, you stay at around the same power level as you would have in the vanilla games, but gain breadth - you can use more weapon types, you will have access to a bigger variety of skills and options, etc.

You're still playing Fallout 3 and New Vegas as written, but some of the underlying mechanics have changed to make that possible. They didn't change things unnecessarily, nor did they mess with the lore (nothing was added that doesn't belong to the lore already, save for some side quests that still fit within the lore.)

Whether the changes are downsides is subjective. I'd suggest looking through the FAQ.

[Carpet_pissr]

Excellent, thanks. I guess I was worried about balance more than anything, since mods of this scope seem to affect that from my limited knowledge.

Some downsides are worth it to get FO3 in the new engine though.

Can’t wait to try it! Almost finished with Beyond A Steel Sky, so that will be a nice change of pace/genre.

[Daehawk]

Funny enough with me being a mod person that I am I dislike and cant support large mods to games. They try to do too much and like said it just breaks stuff. Plus they make these big huge mods then inside its a bunch of wide empty space with scattered things to do. They just have these grand ideas but not the skill or man power to accomplish them on their own.

[Blackhawk]

Except for the ones who do have the skill and manpower and pull it off. And sometimes it is the big mods that make everything else work, serving as a framework to tie everything else together.

There are plenty of bad mods, but you won't see me recommending them.

[TheMix]

I refuse to let all this talk make me do a replay.

[Carpet_pissr]

I refuse to let all this talk make me do a replay.

Do it! I need a re-play buddy!

[TheMix]

Except for the ones who do have the skill and manpower and pull it off. And sometimes it is the big mods that make everything else work, serving as a framework to tie everything else together.

Exactly. My personal opinion is that the story in Enderal is far superior to Skyrim. But, of course, they would not have been able to build it without Bethesda.

[TheMix]

I refuse to let all this talk make me do a replay.

Do it! I need a re-play buddy!

Stop it!!!!

Seriously. I'm actually working on trying to get my Skyrim VR working again. I set it up for gilraen, but she never played it. Now I'm thinking of taking a run through. And I never finished my FO4:VR run. Which also seems to be having issues after sitting for well over a year. So I probably need to upgrade it too.

[Carpet_pissr]

OK, I'm starting! Wooooo

[TheMix]

Slacker! I'm like 40 hours into my Skyrim VR run.

[Carpet_pissr]

Except for the ones who do have the skill and manpower and pull it off. And sometimes it is the big mods that make everything else work, serving as a framework to tie everything else together.

There are plenty of bad mods, but you won't see me recommending them.

Welp, I crashed and burned in the middle of trying to install Tale of Two Wastelands dammit, and what a shame, that would have been ideal.

Do you know of any standalone mods that will run FO3 in a better engine?

[Blackhawk]

Except for the ones who do have the skill and manpower and pull it off. And sometimes it is the big mods that make everything else work, serving as a framework to tie everything else together.

There are plenty of bad mods, but you won't see me recommending them.

Welp, I crashed and burned in the middle of trying to install Tale of Two Wastelands dammit, and what a shame, that would have been ideal.

Do you know of any standalone mods that will run FO3 in a better engine?

Not off of the top of my head. I'd honestly try to TTW Discord. It's a pretty awesome community.

https://discord.gg/taleoftwowastelands

[Victoria Raverna]

Except for the ones who do have the skill and manpower and pull it off. And sometimes it is the big mods that make everything else work, serving as a framework to tie everything else together.

There are plenty of bad mods, but you won't see me recommending them.

Welp, I crashed and burned in the middle of trying to install Tale of Two Wastelands dammit, and what a shame, that would have been ideal.

Do you know of any standalone mods that will run FO3 in a better engine?

Which part of the installation you have problem with? I just finished installed Tale of Two Wastelands and now in the part where I install essential mods. Didn't encounter any problem at all. I'm using F3 GOTY and FNV from Steam,

[Carpet_pissr]

Except for the ones who do have the skill and manpower and pull it off. And sometimes it is the big mods that make everything else work, serving as a framework to tie everything else together.

There are plenty of bad mods, but you won't see me recommending them.

Welp, I crashed and burned in the middle of trying to install Tale of Two Wastelands dammit, and what a shame, that would have been ideal.

Do you know of any standalone mods that will run FO3 in a better engine?

Which part of the installation you have problem with? I just finished installed Tale of Two Wastelands and now in the part where I install essential mods. Didn't encounter any problem at all. I'm using F3 GOTY and FNV from Steam,

Epic for both - but as good as that guide that BH posted is (and it is amazingly thorough!), I guess it's not updated, or accurate. The one very important piece that they are not super clear on is what versions are needed of the games for it to work. They only give platforms and mention that all DLC's are needed. Doesn't mention Ultimate, GOTY, Super Duper redux version 89 to REALLY get those $$$!! or anything else.

What I found is that people using FNV from Epic are out of luck. Which is me. Guide says it works, but it does not currently, apparently.

[Blackhawk]

Ah. Epic is often not mod-friendly with Bethesda games, as it does things just a bit differently from all of the other platforms. They can either rewrite their mods for the 5% of users who use Epic, or just stick with Steam/GoG. It's one reason why Epic is my last choice when it comes to buying.

FWIW, Fanatical has the Ultimate/GOTY versions of both games for $5 each right now.

[Blackhawk]

I did find this on the Discord from one of the staff/creators/whatever.

The Epic Game Store version of Fallout New Vegas will need to be downgraded with the Epic Games Patcher before you can install TTW. Additionally, **the TTW installer has not yet been updated to support the downgraded Epic .exe**. Until the next TTW update implements this, currently only Steam or GOG FNV are supported.
https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/81281

[TheMix]

... That seems really confusing. I don't understand if it can be installed on Epic or not. First they say downgrade to install, but then they say installer won't recognized the downgraded exe.... I assume there is more detail at the link, and that snippet is just missing context. Still, definitely got an eyebrow raise.

[Blackhawk]

No idea. I know why they have to (because Epic makes changes to the files for their own reasons, which breaks utilities that mods rely on), but I've never modded games on Epic (because of what's in the previous parentheses.)

[TheMix]

I only modded one Epic game. And it was definitely a bit of a pain.

On the bright side, the comment seems to suggest that they are working on it.

Just a really weird comment. But maybe the author started with one train of thought and changed part way through. I frequently do that.

[Isgrimnur]

[Blackhawk]

Derailed?

Confusion and delay?

[Isgrimnur]

But maybe the author started with one train of thought and changed part way through.

[TheMix]

I took it as a (literal) train of thought wandering off track.

[NickAragua]

Someone's not being a Really Useful Engine again.

[Blackhawk]

Train of thought. Got it. Brain fuzzy today. Need caffeine. And also caffeine.

[Carpet_pissr]

I only modded one Epic game. And it was definitely a bit of a pain.

On the bright side, the comment seems to suggest that they are working on it.

Just a really weird comment. But maybe the author started with one train of thought and changed part way through. I frequently do that.

My understanding after reading a few threads last night is that FNV from Epic no longer works because of reasons (but strangely, FO3 from Epic does, and can still be used). Also, they will not be fixing it in the future because of other reasons (something about copyrighted content I think).

I just bought the FNV on Steam for like $5, so I am trying again.

This better be worth it, dammit!

[Carpet_pissr]

Every time I see that train I think of Blaine (aka Charlie the Choo Choo). Thanks, Stephen King!

[Blackhawk]

Short version:

Bethesda games have compiled .exe files full of possible instructions for the game.

Bethesda locks those things inside the .exe such that they can't normally be fiddled with, which greatly limits what's possible with mods.

The script extenders (for all recent Elder Scrolls/Fallout titles) hooks into the .exe file and adds significant new capabilities for modders. Without it, mods would be limited to texture/model replacers, stat tweaks, quests, and items that have the same capabilities as vanilla items.

When the .exe is altered, the script extender no longer knows how to hook into it while it's being run. That's why all of the mods break when a Beth game is updated - they change the .exe, and the script extender has to be rewritten.

Sometimes platforms make their own special modifications to the .exe, usually to implement their own brand of DRM. This means that a custom version of the script extender has to be written for them. If the platform is a secondary one, then the team (guy?) who creates the script extenders doesn't do that - he'd end up with dozens of versions across multiple games to maintain. Other times (and I'm guessing that this is where the 'copyright' comment comes from) the company is touchy about their DRM.

See, when you have the script extender, you don't run Fallout3.exe (or Skyrim.exe, or whatever), you run the script extender, and the script extender runs the actual .exe file. That's why modded games often don't count toward your game time, and why you can prevent the games from updating by setting them to only update on launch (since you're never launching through Steam, it never updates.)

But again, it effectively bypasses the DRM. GoG doesn't have any, and Steam is OK with it (or at least chooses not to respond to it.) I'm guessing that Epic has no such qualms. FWIW, this is why, as of last time I checked, you couldn't fully mod the Gamepass version of Starfield. Microsoft locks down those files.

In general, if you want to mod games, stick with Steam or GoG, with Steam being the more consistently reliable of the two (partially because many mods for many games are only hosted on the Steam Workshop.)

[Victoria Raverna]

I only modded one Epic game. And it was definitely a bit of a pain.

On the bright side, the comment seems to suggest that they are working on it.

Just a really weird comment. But maybe the author started with one train of thought and changed part way through. I frequently do that.

My understanding after reading a few threads last night is that FNV from Epic no longer works because of reasons (but strangely, FO3 from Epic does, and can still be used). Also, they will not be fixing it in the future because of other reasons (something about copyrighted content I think).

I just bought the FNV on Steam for like $5, so I am trying again.

This better be worth it, dammit!

I think FO3 can always be used unless Epic changed the resource/data files since the mod installer just import and convert them from FO3 folder to the mod folder.

BTW, once you install TTW successfully and can run it, you can uninstall FO3.

[Blackhawk]

In TTW, Fallout 3 just serves as a source for the data files. The game isn't actually running - it's New Vegas that you're actually playing, with the FO3 content acting like a sort of mod.